I'm not sure how well this will work but this is:


The Admonitions of Ipuwer



It is impossible to give a date for the composition of this document. The surviving papyrus (Papyrus Leiden 334) itself is a copy made during the New Kingdom. Ipuwer is generally supposed to have lived during the Middle Kingdom or the Second Intermediate Period, and the catastrophes he bewails to have taken place four centuries earlier during the First Intermediate Period.
Fringe historians often compare the contents of this papyrus with the second book of the bible, Exodus. Such comparisons between Egyptian texts and the bible are easily made and assuming Egyptian influence on the Hebrews is reasonable, given their at times close contacts. To conclude from these similarities that the Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt at the time of the Exodus requires a leap of faith not everybody is willing to make.

Lacunae in the papyrus text are marked by brackets with dots.

Drat. It won't let me post because of the throughout. Here's a link...


http://www.touregypt.net/admonitionsofipuwer.htm

This is always going to be the problem! Since its unlikely that any real evidence would have survived such a long time IMO. They wouldn't have left all their tools and equipment neatly stacked up next to the Pyramid in the hope that they'd remain there for us to find! So we can guess forever IMO. But its also for that reason I discount many of the theories put forward - on the basis that these theories are only based on what evidence there is remaining - I consider it certain that a lot of evidence will have been lost. Therefore any theories put forward based exclusively on what evidence there is - will automatically be wrong IMO.

If the logic of what Ive written makes sense?

THe only thing that has really survived is the Pyramid itself plus the foundation of the surrounding accomodation etc (I think) - thereafter its a guessing game IMO.

I strongly disagree. There are all types of evidence for how these were
built and it's merely a matter of unraveling it. Perhaps no one has yet
come up with the actual means but it will be known sooner or later exact-
ly how they were constructed. A methodical program of suppressing the
truth can not delay it for long.

its fun to guess though lol - even though nearly everything we are discussing in this forum will no doubt all have a rational explanation.

Really it seems to me that everything is evidence. We have 6,000,000 tons of
evidence. This is not to mention the "proto-pulleys", causeways, chambers, ropes,
boats, star shafts, limestone casing, early reports, foreign sand, water erosion,
cutting marks, drill holes and the thousands of other tid bits, facts and artifacs.

While the ancients may not have intentionally hid the way it was done they prob-
ably assumed it would be apparent and really didn't care if anyone knew or not.
These were largely a monument to human ingenuity as told by people who had
only recently acquired a sort of written language.

The evidence points solidly at these being about water and the living and away
from them being about the dead and desert. The evidence screams that these
were about economics and growth not about slavery and dying. It would seem that
it's up to those who believe the pyramids were built at enormous human cost for
no rational reason to disprove they weren't about the living.

Whatever the real reasons and methods these were built may be far more compli-
cated and convoluted than anyone can ever imagine but it's most highly improbable,
based on the evidence, that orthodoxy is close to the truth.

Another little tidbit to put the pyramids into perspective;

The Berlin airlift lasted for ten months back in 1948. During this time
everything needed to run a large city from oil for generators to food and
medicine had to be flown into the city.

During this time less than half the weight of the Great Pyramid was flown
into Germany.

The planes were built by rocket scientists and the pyramids were built by
people who hadn't even yet concieved of the wheel. It would be two thou-
sand years after these were built that the first money was invented.

The amount of fuel used to fly this material a few hundred miles would have
been nearly as heavy as the cargo and would have provided sufficient ener-
gy to build about twenty Kufu pyramids.

Fortunately Imohotep wasn't confined to the use of DC-3's to complete his
work.

Stand at the base of the Great Pyramid and tell me how they managed to move those heavy stones (much heavier than Stonehenge stones) up to a final summit of what...eight hundred feet or so?

This is why there has been such a great debate about the pyramids, because the theories proposed have many holes. This is why the debate continues. The truth is, no one can figure out how they did it. Not for sure. Just cutting the stones to size and moving them to the final site would be difficult enough. Raising them to an eventual height of approximately a 7-9 story building is another problem.

The pyramids sit there quietly. They still keep their secrets from us in a lot of ways...

I stumbled on another interesting fact while reading the Giza Oracle.

The loss of the writing that covered the pyramids was a tremendous loss.
Using modern techniques and computers it's a virtual certainty that the
language could be translated. Whatever was contained in it must have
been able to shed a lot of light on our earliest history. One can only imagine
that it was quite possibly the collected oral history of mankind as was passed
down from generation to generation before the advent of writing. Indeed ,
this may have well been one of the greatest reasons they were built (or built
the way they were) in the first place. There was said to be enough of these
markings to fill many thousands of pages so there was likely more than
just history included.

It always seemed criminal to me that people would strip these off the pyramid
for use in rebuilding the city after a major quake in the 14th century. Certain-
ly they probably had great need but...

What I hadn't known is that these outer casing stones had been dislodged ac-
cording to this web site. Somehow it seems much less criminal. It's a wonder
that an intensive search isn't begun to find pieces of this stone and record at
least a few fragments of the writing.

OK, some people might find this plan for a mastaba interesting:

http://images.umdl.umich.edu/cgi/i/image/i...start=1;resnum=

It's not clear from the drawings how the shaft connects to the rest of the structure
but I'm guessing it ties into all of the chambers. I'm guessing water flowed up from
the underground shaft and filled these chambers to the depth of the little slits in front.
These would have screens on the interior to exclude debris like twigs and branches
as well as fish. If a slit plugged up the water would simply rise slightly and flow through
the other slits. As more plugged up it would rise further and eventually start flowing
out the back of the mastaba. A tender would need pull the obstructions out through the
back but would be able to see from the front.

Fish could be harvested by plugging the outlets and running the water out the back into
baskets or sieves.

Most of the mastabas had a hole all the way up through the top. This might have been
to operate a plug at the bottom for maintenance or simply a reflection of the fact that
water could emerge under enough pressure to damage the structure if its flow was im-
peded. ...perhaps both.

............... holy.... you are.. psychotic *pls don't ban me *

How the pyramids of Egypt were built, is probably as big as the debate as why they were built. We probably won't have the answer to those questions any time soon, if ever. However many very interesting theories have been put forward for not only how they were built but why. I just finished reading a very good book on this subject. It's called the Giza Powerplant, it was writen by Christopher Dunn. Mr. Dunn is not an Egyptologist, but a Technologist, and he goes about an in depth investigation of the great pyramid by examining the technology that must have been used to create it. This book is good, and well worth the time to read. I will not spoil it by getting to deep into details, but I think you can guess what Mr. Dunn believes the intended use of this amazing structure was, just from the tittle. After reading this book, I have to admit, that the man has some very good points. Particularly when it comes to the age of the pryamid. Apparenlty somebody did and erosion study on it, and the results of that study strongly suggest, if not prove (if the test is accurate) that the great pyramid is somewhere in the neighborhood of 45-50,000 years old. Now, that, I find very interesting, because if this is accurate, the Egyptian dynasties could not have built them, because they wouldn't have been around to do so. So who did? Back to square one.

Just some food for thought.

Good Journey.

Kyle Rajasthan.

We all agree that the pyramids are magnificent feasts of engineering. Such works didn't only require tremendous amount of labor force, but also very careful and precise planning. Indeed, if the ancient Egyptians or any other civilizations could be capable of building them, they should have been capable of planning the whole process from start to finish, at least to fair detail level.

Could such planning be done without any any sorts of writing involved? There must have been some form of writings, work instructions, drawings, mathematical calculations, some kinds of architecture blue prints? The pyramids should have taken the ancient Egyptians decades to build just one, there had to instructions passed from previous builders/architectures to the next ones. Given the amount of work involved, there had to be plenty of them around. Maybe enough so that some of them still survive till today.

So have we found anything regarding how ancient Egyptians communicated with each other in order to build the pyramids? It is hard to believe such works only needed verbal instructions.

I personally do not think that the egyptians did it alone I believe they had some sort of outside help I mean you cant tell me that soooo many slaves every single day for years and years(which would be how long they would have needed to make these things taking into account the weight and size of the stones)would have done this because so many of them would have died through dehydration, no food, injury and so much more and it has been said by scientists that one of the pyrimids would have taken near 30 years to build(correct me if I am wrong)just by human hands and slave labour without any sort of crane or anything like that and to be able to get perfect equal gaps between eachother AND NOT ONLY THAT but how could they have possibly pulled those huge stone blocks right up to the top like they did? I really think people need to think about this a little further if they 100% believe that it was just all them so many of them would have had to continuosly work to build this and so many of them would have died for a number of reasons so what happened when so many of them keep dieing? then you get less men pulling it and as I said it would have been impossible to pull them up that far but thats my opinion

At the very least they would have needed to write down computations.

There would have been a massive amount of logistics involved and com-
munication between the vatious departments and segments doing the work
would have been vital and ongoing. Much of this would have been done by
using mirrors to reflect sunlight but other would be done by heralds and run-
ners.

If these are from the era believed (~2900 BC) then this was the very verge
of written language. Writing required interpretation as well as reading.

Not only is there no written record of how or why they were build surviving
to this day but there is very scant first hand accounts of anything related to
the pyramids before the 5th century BC. There is something called an "inven-
tory stele" existing for Khufu's pyramid which dates back to general time it
was built but it's not believed to be fully original and casts little light on the
function or means of building it.

The library at Alexandria was burned in 1 AD and it's though most of the old
source material would have been destroyed then. Remember that these were
already 3,000 years old perhaps and there may have been no source material
then either. Herodotus never mention anything in writing when he cam 500
years after this. He said his information was passed down as an oral tradition.
Curiously it is just this oral tradition which could have led others to the same
conclusions I've reached here had he been believed.

Well, I hate to burst the bubble. But it must be done. This is for those who believe that the great pyramid could be duplicated within ten years or so. No it can't be done. Here's why. This is a quote from the book, The Giza Powerplant by Christopher Dunn (a book worth reading by the way), page 56, paragraph 3.
"In preparation for his book 5/5/2000 Ice: The Ultimate Disaster, Richard Noone asked Merle Booker, a technical director of the Indiana limestone institute of America, to prepare a time study of what it would take to quarry, fabricate and ship enough limestone to duplicate the great pyramid. Using the most modern quarrying equipment availible for cutting, lifting and transporting the stone Booker estimated that the present day Indiana limestone industry would need to triple it's output, and it would take the entire industry, which I have said included thirty three quarries, twenty seven years to fill the order for 131,467,940 cubic feet of stone. These estimates were bassed on the assumption that production would proceed without problems. Then we would be faced with the task of putting the limestone blocks in place."

You have to wonder exactly how long the construction of that amazing structure took. Makes you think, doesn't it?

Good Journey.

Kyle Rajasthan.

Siting the quarry for the limestone was one of the easier problems for
the ancients to solve. They simply started removing stone to form a hole
about a quarter mile south of the pyramid. This hole was horseshoe shaped
and the tips pointed to the pyramid and tilted up to it. This provided a nice
gentle slope to get the stones right up to the base of the structure. Actual
quarrying was probably the most labor intensive part of the entire process.
After this came the work to cut the blocks to fit.

It is this cutting them to fit that would give modern man the biggest fit. This
technology has been lost and would require decades of trial and error to re-
discover it. The precision of the building would also be difficult to duplicate
but with modern equipment we could probably get close.

If we threw everything into it and didn't try to duplicate the techniques (used
saw cut stones) then we could build one in pretty short order.

It should be noted that we don't really have the means to move around some
of the stones used elsewhere at Giza. Our rail road trestles and beds would
not support such weight.

"On Friday May 26, 1837, during the Vyse excavations at Giza, one of the excavators, J R Hill, found an iron plate embedded in the cement of an inner joint at the southern `Star Shaft' of the Kings Chamber. It was around 12 by 4 inches and 1/8th of an inch thick. More interestingly it was deeply embedded in the masonry and had to be removed by blasting apart the outer two tiers of stones.

The following day Hill showed it to J S Perring, another member of Vyse's team, who added his affidavit to the effect that the iron could not have been placed there after the construction of the pyramid. Despite the fact that Colonel Vyse forwarded this iron plate to the British Museum, together with affidavits from Hill and Perring as certificates of authenticity, archaeologists patently ignore its significance. The majority of archaeologists at best maintain an aloof silence on the subject; at worst they call it a forgery. The more conciliatory assume it to have been of meteoritic origin as specimens of such iron have been found hammered into precious objects from the earliest dynasties.

Certainly the ancient Egyptians were aware of meteoritic iron, but uncomfortably for the archaeologists, the evidence suggests that by a very early date in their history they were already sophisticated enough to differentiate between different types of iron. Loadstones were called `res mehit ba', meaning `north-south iron', and Plutarch quotes Manetho as differentiating loadstones from non-magnetic iron, calling the former `Bone of Osiris', and the latter `Bone of Typhon',..."


There was a copper smelter found recently near the Great Pyramid. While this equipment would not have been rare in ancient times there is some likelyhood that this iron was accidently made at this location which determined its use in construction. When a smelter runs out of control due to improper fuel mixture, wind, or ingredients it could easily melt some of the iron ore which would normally come out as a low density slag. Once melted it would sink to the bottom and stay for some time.

It would be interesting to know if this piece of metal matches the contour at the bottom of the smelter.

Very good post. Didnt know most of that.

It's interesting that so many tunnels and chambers are being discovered and reported in this area. They do explain how the water was conveyed to where it was needed. Some may well have been used to operate the structures and for other purposes as well.

ttt

I found what appears to be a much more scholarly work on water erosion
at the Sphinx.

The following is the link and some excerps;

http://www.hallofmaat.com/modules.php?name...icle&sid=93

"With regard to the location of the Sphinx, the fact that the degradation of the Sphinx enclosure is more intense in the west and, moreover, is restricted to the walls of the enclosure is highly significant.

Although arid conditions dominated during the dynastic period of Egyptian history, wetter periods are known to have been experienced up until as late as the end of the 5th Dynasty (OC approximately 2350 BC). [26] So, the rainy conditions of 5000 to 7000 BC, to which Schoch attributed the degradation of the Sphinx, were separated from the later arid conditions by a transitional phase which, between the Predynastic period and the end of the 5th Dynasty, was characterised by an increasingly arid climate interrupted by occasional, probably heavy, seasonal rains.

The Giza necropolis sits on a gently sloping limestone plateau, which falls from its highest point in the west (beyond the pyramid of Khafre) for a distance of over one and a half kilometres before reaching the former limit of Nile inundation (a short distance east of the Sphinx). With limited vegetation or sub-soil cover, sporadic heavy rainfall would have quickly saturated the fine grained limestones which form the surface of the plateau. Any excess water, unable to infiltrate through the saturated surface, would have been shed downslope as run-off. Although these rain-storms would have been of short duration, the momentum gained by run-off across an extensive catchment (such as that at Giza) must have produced surface flows capable of significant erosion.

The presence of a small wadi to the north of the Sphinx (as already discussed above) suggests that the area originally lay within part of the natural drainage system of the Giza plateau. This natural drainage system may actually have been modified by the excavation of the Sphinx but the extent of any such modification cannot be assessed with any certainty. However, the important issue is that the eastward sloping topography of the site, together with the orientation of the Sphinx enclosure and any effect the excavation of the Sphinx may have had on the local surface hydrology, is likely to have led to the discharge of run-off into the west part of the Sphinx enclosure, eroding the limestone along the exposed western enclosure walls and selectively exploiting any joints exposed along the cut face.

This rainfall run-off model is fully consistent with the distribution of the degradation which is present within the Sphinx enclosure. Not only would rainfall run-off lead to more intense degradation in the western part of the Sphinx enclosure but the less intense degradation elsewhere is also explained. Comparatively little run-off will have discharged over the exposed faces in the east of the enclosure and the body of the Sphinx generated little run-off itself as it was isolated from the plateau by the surrounding excavation of the Sphinx enclosure.

The influence of water at Giza

So, the more intense degradation of the western walls of the Sphinx enclosure can be readily explained by the erosive potential of rainfall run-off. However, although erosion by run-off appears to offer the most likely explanation for observed features, it is important to give consideration to other processes in order to establish whether the degradation of the Sphinx enclosure could, perhaps, be explained in some other way.

Having already identified the problems associated with the wet sand hypothesis, I considered if there were any means by which chemical weathering and exfoliation may have led to the pattern of degradation which could be observed. The effects of chemical weathering could be modified in three ways:

(1) By certain exposures being protected from degradation by, for example, accumulations of wind blown sand. Under such a scenario, unprotected areas would be more heavily degraded;

(2) By variations in the intensity of chemical weathering itself, brought about by factors such as aspect (i.e. the orientation of an exposure with respect to the sun);

(3) By the effect of sand abrasion.

Given the dominant northerly wind direction and the easterly slope of the plateau, dry, windblown sand is most likely to start filling the Sphinx enclosure from the north and west, with the covering of windblown sand protecting the underlying exposures. The exposures which were the first to be covered with sand are therefore those in the west of the enclosure - which happen to be the most heavily degraded."




This dovetails with the flow of water from above at the site of the pyramids.

The water flowed naturally around a hard spot in the rock which was later to
become The Sphinx. The top of this rock was hard limestone which sat on softer
material which would become the neck. The causeway followed the original river
bed and deviated only enough to circumvent The Sphinx which was likely already
carved and somewhat old. Water flowed normally around this structure before and
after completion of the pyramids. The enclosure was heavily eroded by a steady
stream of water. This would flow only from July to September and only when it was
in excess.

Weathering is nearly non-existent on the east side of the enclosure because there
would have been a wide dam to retain water in this area for effect. The dam would
have taken all the wear.

OK. here is perhaps the most interesting tidbit I've found yet. It
is from W. F. Petrie's Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh (Giza)- 1883.

"The plan of the passages was certainly altered once, and perhaps oftener, during the course of building. The shaft, or "well", leading from the N. end of the gallery down to the subterranean parts, was either not contemplated at first, or else was forgotten in the course of building; the proof of this is that it has been cut through the masonry after the courses were completed. On examining the shaft, it is found to be irregularly tortuous through the masonry, and without any arrangement of the blocks to suit it; while in more than one place a corner of a block may be seen left in the irregular curved side of the shaft, all the rest of the block having disappeared in cutting the shaft. This is a conclusive point, since it would never have been so built at first. A similar feature is at the mouth of the passage, in the gallery. Here [p. 215] the sides of the mouth are very well cut, quite as good work as the dressing of the gallery walls; but on the S. side there is a vertical joint in the gallery side, only 5.3 inches from the mouth. Now, great care is always taken in the Pyramid to put large stones at a corner, and it is quite inconceivable that a Pyramid builder would put a mere slip 5.3 thick beside the opening to a passage. It evidently shows that the passage mouth was cut out after the building was finished in that part. It is clear, then, that the whole of this shaft is an additional feature to the first plan."

This will require some thought but My early reaction is that it is con-
sistent with the construction of the Great Pyramid over an existing
pyramid.

I've found an online version of the book and hope to find much more.
http://www.ronaldbirdsall.com/gizeh/index.htm

You said, "It is an impossibility for people to build without extremely advanced technology and this is proven by the fact that we today with our best equipment could not even come close to the Great Pyramids perfection, not even on a scale model 1/25th the size of the original. "

I hear this quite a lot and I don't know where that idea comes from. Any good engineer could reconstruct the pyramids. We have the equpment to perfectly align them to any orientation you choose. We have equipment that can cut stone to thousanths of a millimeter. We have equipment that can lift a stone many time the weight of a pyramid stone. The notion "that we today with our best equipment could not even come close to the Great Pyramids perfection" is ridiculous. The only problem would be cost. But, when you are king of upper and lower Egypt and an earth-bound God, I guess cost wouldn't matter. Of course, the big question is still, how did the Egyptians do it with out our equipment?

This has been discussed at lenght in the thread.

The statement relates to the fact that making a duplicate is beyond our
technology. Yes, we could build a structure which looked like it from a
distance and with as good (or nearly as good) precision. But any such at-
tempt with modern techniques would incorporate stones which are cut to
standard sizes and shapes. The effort required would be enormous but it
could be done were there the will to do it.

What we can't do is use variously shaped stones and trim them to fit in
place while building this thing. We also couldn't use the same techniques
even if we incorporated modern technology. For instance cutting stone to
use in the pyramid with copper tools would prove an incredible stumbling
block even if they were attached to machine operated jack hammers. We
would tend to end up with much more dust and debris than useable stone.

We could slap together a steel frame structure with a limestone facsade
with interior passages and chambers in a couple years at a cost of only a-
bout fifty million dollars but the sucker sure wouldn't stand for 4500 years.

Apparently some French chap has solved it!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6514155.stm

Think the crux of this involves starting at the centre and working in a spiral out.

However (re your point about design/drawings etc) - this method would certainly make the process of construction more complex in my view - in that you'd need to have a pretty firm idea of what the final outcome was meant to be - and ensure that all the blocks go together in the correct way - taking into account the 'twist' in the construction sequence.



Two outlooks that aren't a million miles apart. A sequence of builds?

Haven't caught up with your recent thoughts - but on the basis that the Pyramid was meant to be more than a heap of stones - then the french lads idea works with your idea in that there could have been a sequence of builds - with each subsequent one being closer to the final vision - but with the interim ones able to achieve something.

There's nothing new under the sun and this includes the idea of internal ramping.

Indeed I've recently even found that the use of counterweights has been proposed
in the past even if not in quite the same way.

My guess is that even Imhotep or whoever built this thing would have told us that
there is nothing new under the sun.

While such ramps can't really be ruled out anymore than can most anything else,
the fact remains that it still won't explain what they did at the top. the last half mil-
lion or so stones simply couldn't have used any type of ramping including internal
ones. There has to be something for any ramp to rest on.

There is a theory that the grand gallery was used for counterweights to lift the blocks
above the king's chamber. This one strikes me as a little more unlikely than some.




I found another interesting tidbit reading Petrie.

There are actually three granite blocks at the bottom of the ascending passage. The
two lower ones are in intimate contact and there is a 4" gap to the third.

I've speculated that these might have been used as a one way valve (one stone) or
a stopper (two stones). Perhaps the third one was as a safety?

I've also been reading some interesting stuff about Cambell's tomb and the tomb of
Kentkawes. These are on the plateau as well and seem they might be part of the
infrastructure. Cambell's tomb is especially interesting. It is just above The Sphinx
and is a deep pit with a circular ditch around it divided into sections.

Petrie also found some ditches leading down away from the pyramid but these don't
seem to be sufficiently robust to account for irrigation ditches. There may have been
a large amount of soil along these which could increase the flow sufficiently. It's the
branching of these that intrigues me.

Someone here claimed to know what happened to the sphynx nose but has never said. anyone here tell me what happened to the nose.

Here's a new one.

It took them 40 days and 40 nights to build the pyramids and it did have to do with rising waters. The level of the water determined where they placed the stones. They carved the stones and floated them to position and when the water rose above the last level the just pushed it in place. See, they used all of the stuff from Noah's ark; Noah was a smart man. Some guy was standing on the top of the great pyramid with an olive branch for the dove to take back to Noah to let him know they were done. Nah. Just kiddin'.

Oh, about the nose of the Sphinx, they couldn't keep it in place when the floods came and it floated into the great pyramid and broke the nose off.

Wasn't the nose used as target practice by Napolean's army?

I don't claim to know exactly how the pyramids were constructed....it was an ingenious technological feat but remember...this feat was imitated by various ancient amerindian tribes and some south pacific cultures. The one thing that is often overlooked is that such cultures had access to massive amounts of slave labour.

There have been a couple to fact come to light which have seriosly damaged this theory. The more important is that Vyse did excavate the pit in The Great Pyramid in the mid-'18th century. He found it to have four straight sides down with two extending down even further as though work was suddenly halted. The only cause consistent with the theory I can come up with is that they were aiming for the primary water source but determined they must have missed it. Presumably they would still have water at the grotto so this may not be a fatal problem.

The other fact is that it has been reported that the "structures" at Ahmenenhat I's pyramid is just debris which has been removed from the area.

Check these links out. The first is a simple demonstration showing the technology possessed by ancient civilizations and used to construct the pyramids.
The links that follow are presentations discussing this new discovery in science, how it was known and used by the ancients and its significance
pertaining to the present and future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3asSdngzLs

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=31...rets+of+the+ark

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=49...nce+-+jim+marrs

There is some interesting information on pleiades connection with pyramids. See link: www.thehiddenrecords.com
Hidden Records is written by Wayne Herchell, he not only links egyptian pyramids to pleiades but all others around the world. I read the book and found very convincing.

Please don't take it personally, since I certainly don't expect everyone to know everything about the Egyptians (if you did, there would be no need for me to post here,) but that is one of the more ridiculous websites I've ever been to. It is rife with stupid, ignorant commentary that simply has no grounding in the real world whatsoever. An example? Fine.

Paraphrasing because the site is "content-protected" (a sure sign that it's just an advertisement for a nonscientific, pseudohistorical, piece of trash book) The author (on THIS PAGE) states that a painting found in the tomb of Senmut at Deir el Bahri is in fact a star map, and shows the constellation Taurus as a bull, with a pointer pointing at the bull's "leg" which the author contends is the Pleiades. The Pleiades figures largely into this author's theory, BTW, since the alignment of the lower part of the bull's leg (several stars in the Pleiades) supposedly points to the star with which the author is obsessed. Apparently we either came from there or our "creators" came from there.

Okay so far? Well, here's the problem. The bull shown in the painting on that website is the Egyptian depiction of Ursa Major (part of which is the Big Dipper, remember,) and not Taurus!
Don't believe me? Go look for yourself:

Senmut's tomb at Deir el-Bahri, AKA Senenmut TT353

From that site, in some explanatory text regarding this painting:
(My emphasis)

The bolded portion describes the part of the painting that the pseudohistorian Wayne Herschel wants us to believe is a "star map."

Part of the above-quoted text contains hieroglyphic character font which, as you might imagine, does not 'cut and paste" very well. That explains why some of it seems gibberishy.

You can gather from the above description that the tiny portion of this painting used by the author at his "content-protected" website is far from representative of what is actually painted at Senmut's Tomb.

A second example from the same page of this pseudohistorian's website is his claim that the round zodiac found in the ceiling of the Temple of Hathor in Dendera shows a similar "star map." That's actually kind of funny. The "Dendera Zodiac has been uused to make all kinds of stupid arguments in the past, as well as a few good arguments. But arguing that the Dendera Zodiac shows anything at all similar to the astronomical ceiling from Chamber A of Senmut's Tomb is pure foolishness. The Dendera Zodiac is Greek. The Greeks got their Zodiac (a Greek word, BTW) indirectly from the Sumerians. This zodiac is basically the same one we use today. The Egyptians, on the other hand, didn't have a zodiac. They did, however, have names for various star patterns. See, the Dendera Zodiac's "Taurus" is our "Taurus." The "Taurus" that Herschel tries to shoehorn into the painting from Senmut's tomb is actually our (and the Greek's) "Great Bear" ("Ursa Major.") So, again, exactly how can these two "zodiacs" (Senmut's is decidedly not a "zodiac") show the same star maps, when they clearly, and demonstrably, are using two completely seperate constellations in their depictions?

Laughable.

Harte

Jeez bro, some of me rub off on you? How ya been? Don't ask me how, but I snuck back in here, my theory marches on, still no flaws found, every thing I do supports all around it.

You might be interested in this...

Given all the blocks are staged and ready, I've honed my method, (or one of them anyway) to build this thing using 40 hour weeks, 2 weeks for vatcation, not too many men, 10k or who knows, to build this top to bottom in two years. It's all about moving and stacking blocks. I got the figs over at my home site where you never visit but actually, I can build this thing just about as fast as you want to. I don't think it was done like that as to many materials would go to waste.

But anyway Harte, I'm back, around the corner, new thread, new game, sweet images, if these folks here can get over getting thier teeth kicked in after they try to kick mine in, you'll enjoy this.

I used to move safes, remember?

Now this cladking guy, bro, it's just a damn shame he wasted so much of his life on this, he doesn't have a clue and it looks like he'd have trouble moving his refridgerator to get at the cheese sandwhich he dropped behind it.

Hey clad, I'm not gonna bother destroying your dog and pony show you got going on here. Just go read mine and bow out.

Lil' question for you clad, you gotta average stone moving forward, make it take a right hand turn.

Gravy for me, I'll even show you, but son, you are done, the master is here, step back or your gonna get in my way and I'll have to drop a block on you.


Marchimedes has returned.

Just talk. Ya' don't scare me.

Sure my theory is in the desert bleeding but it's not dead yet. And I'll bettcha
at least parts of it prove true.

You'll understand if I kick your thread pretty hard if it looks erroneous, I'm sure.

Ah, that's the spirit there sport.

Hi all.I am new here,and i want to share my knowledge about this particular subject.First of all,i dont want anyone to think about me,as some weird guy,or i am drunk or something.Things i will tell you will be amazing,weird,crazy..and for some true.Before i begin writing about great pyramids,i want to say,that there are many other secrets notyet explained,like " bermuda triangles,monsters,flying witches,human teleportation,ufos,angels,ghosts,and much much more.
Our planet exists for a long long time.Before us,there were much more advanced civilizations,who lived on our planet.To this day,there are many painings in caves from 5,000 years ago,showing big heads with big eyes,flying discs.Even some temples from 3,000 years ago shows flying machines like helicopters and airplanes,which means they knew what we will use as flying machine.Ancient civilizations who live thousands of years ago had amazing knowledge,and some of this knowledge comes from gods.Lets go back to great pyramids.I have seen only 2 people talking about ets in this thread.I will tell you this...those great pyramids were build with help of extraterrestials,and their knowledge.Some of them came from atlantis,and some from stars.Look at this picture : http://www.crystalinks.com/pyrorionbeltstars.jpg .Let me say this to all not believers...There is absolutely no way,that egyptians few thousands of years ago knew that those pyramids will point exaxtly to those points in orion galaxy.Cant you people see.they are trying to show us,who is really behind this?Those points in orion galaxy,really shows where they came from.It is also possible,that those pyramids could be build in less then 2 seconds.You think its funny ? You all heard about crop circles? they are all over the world,and some just so amazing,that there is no way people could make them in the middle of the night.Watch this video and be amazed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY77h1i_qxQ .2 ufos made them in less then 5 seconds.For us people will take us all day and night,or even more to do it.Dont you think,that great pyramids,has not been created the same way?Also a lot of people beleive,they mastered art of levitation,and this is how rocks rised in the air.Finally,someone asked why they were build in the shape of traingle..Well,triange itself has mysterios supenaural energy.If you put glass of water underneath,it will stay fresh,even it will taste better.Pyramid has positive enrgy inside,this is why pharaon in egypt decided to be buried in pyramid...so maybe he can reincarnate again or something.Finally noone mention about secret chamber inside of pyramid.In 1990's they send robot to see,whats behind first wall,and to their suprize,they found another door.To this day,noone can figure out,whate behind it.What i think,is when the right time comes,people will findout whats behind it....and i will tell you what they will find/......the greatest secrets of our planet,including how pyramids in giza were really build.

Oh man, where to start.

hey, you were supposed to pick a screenname, not list where you live.



Too late.



Priceless, absolutely priceless.


No. But then I guess you ain't been reading my thread.


Because in an age without metal girders and I-beams the pyramid is the most logical, stable shape to achieve a structure of any height.

So mysterious no one can explain or measure it. But somehow YOU know it's there. Classic tin foil hat stuff.



Water spoils in dreamland eh?

Well, hook up the mutli-meter and proove it. Is that AC or DC?


That's cause I joined yesterday. Lemme go fetch sumpin from my home site.

Wala...



I'm loving this place. All these questions and ideas and all I have to do to rip em' up and amaze is post from my huge file base.




http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=94448

Now you have no excuse for your behavior.


Hey cladking, being as you weren't doing so well getting rid of the foil hatters, thought I'd show you how it's done. Now I could have spent all day with dreamland (how apt) here, but it's a complete waste of time really. He/she is gonna believe what they want to believe.

But you know what? I don't have this problem on my threads.

They********** real quick like that bringing unsubstantiated junk will get some skulls caved in.


And dreamland, I have absolutely no patience with such garbage. Keep posting and I'll just keep knocking your ideas down. But the pain will grow with each post.

Get your ducks in a row.

Marchimedes is here and bringing it large.


Marchimedes needs to follow the rules here!


6. No flaming, flame baiting, mocking, verbal abuse or trolling
Members who derail topics with flaming, trolling, deliberate misquoting or the instigation of 'flame wars' will be removed from the forum. We ask that members stay open minded about opposing viewpoints. Don't ask for other people's opinions on something if the only opinion that matters to you is your own. Avoid being offensive towards other members that you disagree with; attack the viewpoint being presented, not the person who holds that view. Claiming that you 'know' you are right about something and that everyone who disagrees with you is 'ignorant' or 'blind' achieves nothing and is a close minded mentality that we strongly discourage in threads.

Marchi,

Glad you're back. Hope you play nice. I can now leave the pyramid stuff to you. As I recall, we barely disagreed on the how, and I'm as willing to go along with your ideas as I am with any others, since it's your position that they were built by people that were cutting, shaping and dragging big ole blocks of limestone into a squared-off pile.

I believe the only point of contention was what sort of surface the stones were dragged over. Such a precise detail may never be known for sure and certainly shouldn't be construed as any sort of a major disagreement, wouldn't you say?

Lastly, try shrinking down these dern images before you post them here. Your jpeg is so big I have to scroll right and left to read the posts on this page. At this website, most of the posts are not worth even that little effort, as evidenced by Dreamland's insane ignorance above.

Harte

Hello, Dreamland....welcome to the forum.

Your views and opinions are as important as anyone elses here....this is, after all, the Unexplained Mysteries forum.

Don't be put off by the very rude and disgraceful post that followed yours. There is a lot of 'rough and tumble' here but in my opinion Marchimedes over-stepped the mark.

No-one has all the answers to who built the pyramids and why....and all contributions are valid.





There was no excuse for the way YOU spoke on your post, Marchimedes. I know that it's only words on a computer screen...but your words, at the end of your post, especially, were agressive and unpleasant.

Lets keep this topic civil please, Marchimedes your point can be put across without the snide remarks; and lets all show a little respect towards the views of other members, especially when they are new to the board.

Thankyou.

*Puts on foil hat and sits down, waiting to see how it's done*

Well darling, it sure hasn't and won't be on this pile of substandard mediocrity and blind suposition that passes for a pyramid construction thread.

Your new days of enlightenment begin here...

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=94448

It's just around the corner, you can walk from here.

And I love your "sugar coating the truth" quote. I'm bring the essence of that to unimagined levels.

So, what do you look for in a man?

Humor, brains, the ability to eat ones weight in chicken wings?

Marchimedes,

You got her pegged!

I know this because I'm funny, smart and can eat my weight in chicken wings.

But if I keep that last part up, eventually my weight will become too large and I'll no longer be able to accomplish this feat!

Harte

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!.....*sigh*......*bats lashes*.....I must refrain because of your pacemaker and all love you!


Well my dear, It seems as though I must be transparent! Humor and brains, an absolute must. Chicken wings, well, I guess it's better then Rocky Mountain Oysters!

Harte, you ol' crumegen, thanks. Yea, well, I've toned it down some but still just got warned, I'll back up some more. I've brought a tad more content that's easy to grasp with me this time.

Are you at ATS too?

They really need some schooling.



Aw, come on man, jusmp in, the waters fine.







Nope. Rolled darn it. the surface they were ROLLED over is the blocks making up the upper part of the pyramid. They took the road up from the far end from the pyramid and topped it off with the block in the road.

Which explains why there is no evidence of said road.

It's in the pyramid.


Done shrunk. yea, i don't suffer those types on my threads. they last 2-3 posts at the most.

If I ever need a counter weight in my theory (why would I do that, just sumpin else to schlep around, but that's a different guys theory I'm gonna give some love to when I'm done taking over this feild) I'll PM you. keep eating and don't spare the sause.

http://srs.dl.ac.uk/arch/what-the-papers-say/pyramids.htm



http://srs.dl.ac.uk/arch/what-the-papers-say/pyramids.htm

http://srs.dl.ac.uk/arch/what-the-papers-s...translation.htm

thanxx for the usefull information

I'm still a member, but their upgrades make it difficult for me to load their webpage (I'm on dail-up.) So I usually only check in every few days. If I'm moved enough to post, I will, but I'm mostly a lurker there now.




Oh yeah, now I remember. Sorry.

My way requires no road as well. I don't agree with the rolling, but I'll concede the possibility.

Harte

since there are 17 pages here, it's 2 in the morning, and i really don't feel like reading them all; i apologize if anyone else has already posted either of these videos. the first video is about a man named Edward Leedskalnin, who claimed to have found the secrets that were used to build the pyramids. he built the coral castle in florida. there are many other videos on youtube about him as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhzC_8-kszA


and here's a video of a guy that i found while looking for videos of the coral castle who is building his own stonehenge.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4