big·ot·ry (bĭg'ə-trē) pronunciation
n.

The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.

This is the product of religion. I did a little chat experiment on a Christian chatroom. I went in, and told about my friend. I was playing the role of a confused Christian. So anyway, I told how my friend was an atheist, because he couldn't find reason to believe that the Bible is the word of god. But, he is a very very good person, better than me and any christian I know in terms of purity. And I asked, why should he deserve to go to hell? The general consensus of the room was that..

No, he is a sinner, he rebels against God because he enjoys it.

So I went on to try and explain to them, that if he could actually see or experience God, he would believe it in a snap.

The general concensus: People still denied god when they could hear him physically, so my friend would do the same, and I can't possibly know him better than them.

So I went further, reiterating that he was a very nice and caring person, more so than almost anyone I've ever met.

They lashed back telling me again that no, he was a sinner and a bad person. Because they apparently know him better than I do.

So I said, well if God makes us knowing that most of us will not accept him and end up tortured, then does he really love us?

And all I got was that I shouldn't question God, because men are evil by nature and it is God's free will to create us, and that he loves us and it should not be questioned.

So I put it on more human terms. I said, "Would you want a baby brother if you knew that the baby would be tortured and killed early in his life?"

And everyone said no.

But when I tried to say well God did just that with us, created us already knowing that most of us would be tortured (with his permission) for eternity.

And again, "You shouldn't question God, he suffered for us."

So now to my point. This goes to show the Bigotry, and brainwashing that Christianity creates. This is the easiest possible way for me to explain it. I used to be a Christian and once I questioned my religion I realized it wasn't right. But many people accept that God is not to be questioned, because they are mere humans.

But: Proper faith should be questioned, because only questioning can assure that it actually is sincere. (And I think through fair questioning, anyone of right mind can come to conclusion that their religion is incorrect and/or contradictory, it only depends on their comfort level in questioning their faith.)

So what will this post achieve? Likely nothing, just another argument from some christians who will tell me they've questioned their faith when they really probably have not done so fully. But I'll post it nonetheles..

yeah no kiddin, you just figured this out?

KBA, fortunately for humanity the large majority of Christians are not quite so fervent and rigid in their personal beliefs. I have visited many Christina forums and it seems that the denizens of these forums are either those that are so fanatic that they feel no one else is good enough to associate with or they are so unsure of their beliefs and faith that they have to have others of their persuasion around them at all times. There are a lot of good Christians in this world and a great many of them come to this forum....Irish, Bella, IAMSON, Somethinglikelaughter, Paranoid Android, 101, just to name a few. Yes, I argue with them and we indirectly call each other names, but there is a love and respect underlying all of our bickering. After fighting one day, we may be allied against a stranger belief the next. So please don't paint all Christians with one brush, there are shades of Christianity, some are more loving and forgiving than others...Incidentally, I am a Deist and share only a belief in a Creator with Christians....Mako

Yes, this wasn't meant to be an "all christians are terrible" thread, although I think any of the fundamentalist christians in this world need to really look at how they're carrying themselves in social situations.

(The problem being that the Bible doesn't leave too much room for interpretation, it gives a pretty strict doctrine for Christians to follow. Now everyone interprets it on their own level, this post was mainly meant for those who like to believe that the bible will do the thinking for them.)

I agree with Mako.

Many of the Christian sites are geared towards fanatics, as such you will get lots of such Bigotry.

However as a member of this site you will see that many Christians (and Muslims and Pagans and Deist and others) are fine people.

It is merely a matter of finding them. And they are in truth not rare. They merely are not as visible as those who are more Bigoted or fanatical.

Well believe it or not, all Christians are like the ones you talk to. That's why I don't enjoy having Christianity discussions online, it makes more sense to have them in purpose.

Anyway, at some point in their lives everyone will question wether or not God existed, saying that there isn't 100% proof he existed. The true meaning of a Christian is someone who puts their trst and faith and God and loves God with a passion. Being a Christian isn't really as hard as some people think it is.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your experience in that forum KBA.
Yeah, unfortunately many times people get so rigid with that they believe that it becomes a distortion of what the original belief is, leading to.... yup, you guessed it, bigotry. And I get sick of that as much as you do.

*Silly mode on*
Mmm... I've got an electric guitar here, an Ibanez. I wonder how it would look like on their heads...
*Silly mode off*

Now, regarding your original post, I wanted to comment some parts of it.



Yup, faith has to be questioned, otherwise you would be some kinda mindless drone. I'm not very fond of using Bible verses, just because I'm a lazy-a$$ to look for it on the Net or to get up from the chair I'm writing, walk 10 feet and grab the Bible, but this verse came up to my mind right now. It goes a bit like this:


Now, saying that anyone of right mind would give up their belief is more debatable, but for now let's just stick to the main point here, mmmkay?



Mmm... unfortunately many times people close themselves to other persons because of the rigidness of their own beliefs. I'm not targeting just Christians or Muslim or Wiccans or the followers of the Jack Bauer Church, but also people with no religious belief whatsoever (some of their sites on the Internet are so arrogant and full of bigotry that in the end there's no way you can take them seriously- the comment about the electric guitar is valid on them too ).
So, where am I going? That bigotry is not a problem of the religion itself, because if it were because of that, most religious people would be arrogant, bigot "poo-heads" (you know the real term that would go in here, the one that starts with an sh**) when it's rather a minority of them -Shirley Phelps anyone?- but rather of how people take their beliefs (or lack of).


Well KBA, what do you think about it?

KBA, I'm sorry about your experience. I agree with Mako's post (see here is an example of what he said in his post! )

One of the reasons I am in UM and not on a Christian site is that the majority of the Christians I met on those sites were immature (not necessarily agewise, but in their walk with God) and did not seem at all interested in doing anything but congratulating each other for being given a ticket to Heaven.

I believe that if Jesus were alive today and on the internet, He would more likely be here in UM than on a Christian site because the true Christian understands that eternity in Heaven is not the goal, it is a reward, the goal is a personal relationship with God, and that personal relationship includes completing the work that God prepared you for and prepared for you.

However, I have to wonder if the answers you got would have been different if these people had know you were not what you advertised yourself to be. You see the answers they gave you were correct. From the Christian perspective, no matter how nice someone is, they have sinned at some point in their lives and so, have earned the sentence of eternal separation from God (death, hell). But if they had been aware that you were not a Christian they may have tried to explain this (it's a big IF, I'll admit, but I can always hope they would have done the right thing), and not been so harsh with their answers.

Iams.. you are so brainwashed. With Tide lavender vanilla. X)

Yeah? That's like saying you're part of the KKK, you wear the hood and march around but you're not racist and don't hate other people.

Just doesn't work.

Not exactly, Kratos...I live in a neighborhood completely surrounded by Christians, home schooled kids, teachers for the Christian school two blocks away, and old school elderly. We are all like family and in the twenty some odd years I have lived here religion has only come up MAYBE a total of four hours.

I don't throw what I believe, or don't believe, in their face and they don't push anything on me. We coincide very nicely.

SC, you are such a hopelessly lost pagan

*pulls on SC's tail and runs to hide behind a barrel of rum*

That had better be a big barrel!

Kratos, you should just have gone straight for the jugular and just compared us to the Nazi SS abusing the people in the concentration camps.

Fixed something for you dear! X)

I was actually leaning a bit more towards a soldier under Vlad or actually even a servent of Elizabeth Báthory but they wouldn't work as well as people don't know them as much.

Though, what I'm trying to say is just because you don't want to accept the horrible history and the intolerance and sexism in the bible, yet you still want to call yourself a christian well you're not going to simply escape it.



Yeah, it does. I used to be a Christian till I woke up. I wish more people would honestly look at their faith and ask the questions. They may be shocked and surprised when they do ask instead of falling back on... Nothing.

I was also a Christian once...hopefully, from what I've seen, the newer ones are not trying to escape it's past, but are learning from it and trying to overcome.

*doh* Now the song We Shall Overcome is going to be stuck in my head.

Actually, K, I have no problem acknowledging it, it's there. I think that makes it clearer that:

1. God is not a caricature. He is an all-powerful being who has the power and the capacity to use it in very destructive ways and feels no compunction about doing it because He is the Creator and is free to do what He wants or needs with His Creation. This just makes it that much more amazing that He has CHOSEN to deal with man from a loving stance and also has chosen to include man in His plan by working through Him instead of acting directly.

2. The men (and the people) God has chosen to work through are no better than anyone else, they are weak, selfish, and disobedient. The things they accomplished, they accomplished not because they were outstanding personages, but because they were doing the work He called them to.

I APOLOGIZE NOW FOR ANY OFFENSE YOU WILL TAKE AT MY POST.
Interesting reaction. Two things

1.Christian chat rooms are not even close to being majorly Christian
2.Why were you looking in a chat room and not a church?

I have been to many chat rooms and as a Christian have been shocked at the fact that those poeple are calling themselves Christian. I have talked to people in Christian chat who have said they don't believe in Jesus yet will still call themselves Christians. Christian Chat is not a reliable source.
Let's establish some stuff.
1.Everyone sins
2.Your friend is a someone so then he to has sinned.
3.You:If God makes us knowing that most of us will not accept him and end up tortured, then does he really love us?

Well God created everyone with a free will. That's like saying if you know your child is going to be born into a world of violence and hatred why not abort it? Then where would we be? And please do not say that my analogy is not the same. If it isn't please show me how it isn't. Also you look at hell like a torure chamber, but when you look into it by denying the existence of God we are asking for it. (I don't mean that how I am pretty sure you think I mean it.)
Hell is merely Seperation from God whether or not you believe he exists that's what it is. Now, I read in another thread that someone takes offense in saying God Bless you because they don't believe in God. well then they would want hel because hell is merely seperation from God.

you may be thinking "then why does the Bible say people will suffer in hell?"
an excellent question. Look at it this way we are spiritually designed for God. Our sole purpose is to serve him (Doesn't that make God conceited?) maybe, but if your perfect you can be. Now back to what I was talking about. If we are made and structered to worship him and be with him, the seperating ourselves from him is like being seperated from oxygen (not fun) so like our bodies need oxygen our souls need God (whether or not we believe he's there) now if you were to seperate your body from oxygen you would be in suffering right? Why is that? because our bodies need oxygen. So if you were to seperate your soul from God (hell) then you would be in suffering. You:"So God is comparable to someone who would restrict someone else from oxygen because the did not serve him?" Another excellent question. the answer to that would be to look at it differently. God did not take you from the O2 you took yourself from it. for instance young children don't like broccoli. You don't like God (I assume). however children do need broccoli and other nutrients to survive right? In the same way we need God.

If you have any questions ask me. I have plenty of time. Now I can imagine some of the Questions or skepticisms you have but would prefer that you asked them first before I jumped to conclusions.

Hullo, nothing too bad about my experience.. not far from what I expected to find.
And I think the people that are like this tend to be the fundamentalist Christians, I know first-hand because of my dad.



If Jesus were alive today, from what we can draw from the bible, he would be completely disgusted with U-M and any other Christian site, and almost any site on the internet.
The answers they gave were what they believed. If they are looking at it as an argument their answers will change and intolerance will prevent any conversation.
And they don't need to explain it to me, I've been deep into Christianity, I've been brainwashed by its cutesy "Jesus loves you" image. I know how it works, I just want to have someone who currently is Christian say it so it sounds less biased.
If we are all loved by god then why does acknowledging Jesus put us in any better standing? Have you ever been angry at a stuffed animal for something that stuffed animal did? No, because it would be beneath you. Just like any of our sins would be beneath any real God.



I'm not going to go to a church to get a few posts. And yes, the people were authentic christians . They went directly with what the Bible says and with what Every other true Christian I know would say.

I know my friend has "sinned" based on the Bible, and that everyone has.. But that's irrelevant. The argument went so far as for them to say he is a bad person and not a good person. That's intolerance and bigotry no matter how you spin it. And it's what the true fundie Christians believe. Remember those "God hates [homosexuals]" protestors everyone so loathed? They were the closest to the bible's teachings, considering the bible wants Gay people murdered. Not forgiven.



It isn't the same. A proper analogy would be if you know your child will be tortured and murdered with your approval because they are different than you, and you still have them born while you claim to love them. And when it happens you could stop the torture and murder, but instead you condone and take part in it. Don't try to say THAT isn't a proper analogy, because it is the exact same thing. Although how God could require vengeance on such a puny, inferior, defenseless being is questionable in and of itself. See the teddy bear reference.

By denying the existance of God we are asking for torture? SO since you deny Allah do you think you deserve to be mamed by his followers or Allah himself? What about Budda, should he be the real god and hate you for denying him do you think you deserve his punishment? Krishna? Zeus? Neptune? Vishnu? Etc? If God can not clearly tell us that the word is his own, why the heck would he punish us for uncertainty if it is or not? I am not denying God, I'm denying Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, David, Job, etc.



This is the heart of my post. You can not be conceited and perfect, the 2 are a contradiction. If you are perfect, you have no desire to be conceited. It's a human emotion, because the bible was written by humans. Those of faith will accept pitfalls in their religion because they look past that so they can still believe they have a spot in paradise. If you make billions of people to serve you endlessly, even when they are of no help to you, you are imperfect. Perfection can not co-exist with imperfection, because something that's perfect has no reason to exist in the first place. And if it did exist, it would be the only thing to exist, because it is perfect and needs nothing else. If something has a creator, it is imperfect because something has authority over it. If something does not have a creator, and is perfect, it would not create because it is self sufficient in full. The need for praise is again, a human and imperfect emotion.

Christianity or other such religion is not hard to contradict, but it is hard to remove. Because the heavily faithful will desregard even the most obvious and incriminating contradictions, Progress can only be made in doubt. If people have no doubt, you yourself can not convince them otherwise. They can see your points and create doubt themselves, but only then can religion be given up.

And no, I take no offense in your post, because if I let myself take offense in opinions that are different that mine, then I form assumptions and can't try to understand or debate them at the same time.

------------

I'm going to stem a little off topic here, I will post my experiences with Christianity to possibly give people a small bit of insight into what I am saying here.

So, basically I was raised Christian. Two Christian parents, church every Sunday and Tuesday, can't date until 16, and only people from the church, prayer and quiet time every day, you get the idea. It decided alot of my opinions, politically, spiritually, and socially. I never really questioned it until I was 13. And before that, I sat there just like everyone who I am now arguing against and gave misguided logic as to why God can't be denied etc. etc. I know what it's like to be there and you see everything through a screen that you cannot know about until you've left it behind. So when I was 13 it started to seem wrong to me. The major turning point was when this friend whom I talked about earlier asked me that question.. "Do you think I'm going to hell." I reluctantly told him yes. And it felt wrong, and I knew it was wrong. I basically became aware of being brainwashed. So then I began to read the bible from a skeptic's point of view, and it became quickly obvious how absurd it really was. I gave up Christianity pretty quickly after that, yet still went to church because I didn't know what my parents would do if I told them. But eventually I got tired of agreeing with their stuck-up preachings and proud comments and told them flat out (Just a few months ago, I'm currently 14, about to turn 15.) And I expected it, but because of the intolerance my parents have from Christianity, I became less to them. My dad has since taken up a habit of pointing out each of my mistakes to me, and my mom basically is her same old psychotic (That's not an exaggeration with the things she's done) self but less friendly towards me now. They don't buy me anything but the basic needs for life, while they spoil my baptised sister rotten with a car, $300 blinds, a new $200 bedframe, too many clothing items to count, and so on. I'm not complaining to anyone, I really don't mind because I know that I live very well compared to many in this world, I'm only using that as an example of what it can do to people. They try to get me to come to Church every time they go and yell when I do not oblige (which is always).

So as you can see I'm quite disobedient of my parents, but in my eyes with good reason. Not to sound overly condescending but when your parents are still trapped in a fairy tale reality (and they spend much of their time on it), it's hard to take orders seriously. You begin to question their authority over you because they themselves have such biased and intolerant attitudes. I think most people in my situation would understand. Now I wonder, who here, what Christian here thinks that because I am disobedient to my parents that I should be stoned to death as your Lord demands (Since I "do not accept Jesus' forgiveness")? I would love to see any Christian look me in the eye and tell me they really believe that, and then take them to court and get them locked up.


The bible is a foul and disgusting book..

I would like to end that by saying I am in no way shape or form complaining or whining, I simply look forward to the future and appreciate what I do have now. I'm not asking for pity nor reassurance, I am simply trying to make a point.

I must say I agree with Mako and AtlantisRises. The majority of Christians I think you'll find are much nicer and less judgemental than you think. It's the obnoxious and loud ones that you see more because they are more noticeable. THe vocal minority, so to speak.

To this, could I also quickly add that a Christian is no better or worse than a non-Christian. This is the part that I think is missed with many non-Christians. By saying we are all sinners, a Christian does not (or at least should not) mean "all non-Christians are sinners". All are sinners, the Christian as well as the non-Christian. How exactly this translates into intolerance and bigotry, I'm not entirely certain. I know it does happen, but when a Christian accepts that they are just the same as a non-Christian, how can they really be intolerant and bigoted towards them? It's like the pot calling the kettle an extremely dark colour......

~ PA

But PA, what if you don't believe we are all 'sinners'. We all have committed acts against each other which haven't been beneficial - if this is what you call sin - but, if God is everything, how can you 'sin' against God?

This is the message I took from Biblical sin. I admit it may not be the correct interpretation, you may be able to correct me in this.

If God is everything and to sin against God means being denied your 'heavenly reward' then isn't God then simply denying 'himself'?

Why would a God do that? Why would any sane entity do that?

Please don't be offended, I'm not implying God is insane. I simply don't understand this whole 'punishment' deal.

Oh yeah, I never said that the majority of Christians were like this, I'm mainly talking about the fundamentalist Christians (and I'm not saying all of them are like this either.)

But what I'm saying is that for the people who are susceptible or maybe already prideful, Christianity gives them that little more to put themselves completely above others. To go out and tell people that they are sinners and they must repent or whatever. I know it represents a fairly small portion of Christians (and whenever I say Christians here I'm not talking about the, have a bible somewhere around the house went to church once last year type of christians, I mean the; study the bible daily go to church weekly kind of Christians.)

Every Christian has their own level of tolerance for the "impure" types of things. But there are many who just cannot accept when someone does something that to them is "impure" or evil. I think there are two kinds of modern Christians. The understanding types, who let people do what they want and unserstand that it's that person's own choice, and then the interfering types. Who openly question someone and tell them that they're evil or whatever. Again, this is not a huge percent of the christian population, but it IS what the bible teaches.

So maybe this thread title is a little off. But I have met many a Christian who is completely intolerant of things outside of their religion. Hell, I live with 2 of them.



Spot on. This is what for me sends the Bible speedily into the realm of fiction. It's all about what a perfect being would be like. (As I said before, I think a perfect being requires no companionship, because it never feels alone, it si completely self sufficient. So if there were a perfect being to start off why would he create us?).

But, if somehow there were a God who is perfect, we could never sin against him. Could a plant sin against us? Nope, it would be completely powerless to do so. There is nothing in a plant's power that it could do to hurt us. (While it could be used to hurt us, the plant itself can't and that's the important part of the analogy). We would be like a plant to any perfect being (although less important I would think), Nothing we could do could affend that perfect being, and nothing we could do could make it angry at us. In the Bible, God clearly shows anger/rage/wrath, it's put many ways. But how can we be nothing against God, don't we become a threat to him if we have the ability to make him angry? And since we can, he is not a perfect being, therefore a creation of the human mind.

As a christian, I believe God created us for a personal relationship with him. This means that God cares about how we act towards not only each other, but towards him. Like I said in an earlier post, a God who desires a personal relationship with us would care greatly about how we act towards not only each other, but to him. Would you care about how your friends act towards you? Would you be friends with them if they were always doing things to hurt you? The laws God has given us are there for a purpose, not only to make life difficult for us. In my life, whenever I've disobeyed the BIble, I've always come to grief. Then I look back at what I'd done, looked at God and said "I should have listened to you in the first place".

Though not all people believe we are sinners. Naturally. If all did believe this, then there'd be no issue here. People would realise the need they have for God to save them because they can't save themselves. When I say "we are all sinners", I'm just giving the biblical point of view on the matter (or at least what I see as the biblical point of view).

Call me judgemental here, but i don't see a person like this as a "Christian". How can one claim to be a Christian (Christ-ian, or in other words - "follower of Christ") yet never follow Christ or his teachings? It's an oxymoron, and an irreconcilable one at that.

Count me amongst your definition of Christian then

~ PA

Your faith is a very personal thing. Many times in ones life you will find people who try to make you clones of their belief...I get it very often. I shrug my shoulders and keep believing what i believe. I dont want to be a machine or a robot. I think about God everyday...I question things everyday - yet the conclusion is always the same...He may exist. You have to be smart when it comes to faith- we all have our style of doing things and God made us all different...We cant all think exactly the same (heck even with the Bible we cant agree with interpretations etc). A scietist who has studied God all his life and told me "I have just proven God doesnt exist" wouldnt cut the cake for me...Its his thinking - not my own - so of course its brainwashing if i listen...My brain is relatively clean and doesnt read "wash me". Thanks.

Ramster You got it, seek your own Path. The world is filled with people who are more than happy to tell you what to believe and not to believe, what they seek power and control. They will never see the true nature of God as you have.

Ah, but where do people formulate their ideas of God? From religion. (And if nobody got their ideas from religion, nobody would believe in God because no God makes himself known in our world. Anyone can say something was God but whatever that thing is always could've occured on its own.) A religion is a set of beliefs, it isn't a pick and choose type of thing, unless you don't actually want to follow that religion.

Nobody can see the true nature of God or if he exists, nobody. We can see what is on our earth. AND we can see what we want to see. They can think they see God, but do they really? No. If God were going to come to our earth and make himself known he would not be so stealthy about it. The whole idea of God is from people seeking power and control (or maybe just insane). It's the "I have power over you, your creator says so" type of thing.

Kratos, you should just have gone straight for the jugular and just compared us to the Nazi SS abusing the people in the concentration camps.

Well if you compare yourself with the nazi army then yes that would be about right,
only because you are under the power of a goverment that is doing the wrong thing, And ofcoarse you believe that aslong as you follow the belief that there is nothing that can be done about it but submit to the atrocities you allow to commit, and can pass on the blame to the next rank up, then you with your fellow comrades by your side along the flanks can keep defining your responsibility as limited.
But dont worry your not alone, more then half of the world is under the same impression, and part of our slavery and dependance and quest for self destruction.

As for bigotry and brainwashing really depends at what depth of definition you want to access, theres all differant variations of opinions towards differant perspectives which add up to nothing more then how we view the world, I suppose the question is what would happen when we took someone elses definition, do we also take there contridictions?

I found you.........
Hi Mako
I found this page just as it was posted with no replies on , but I was in a hurrey and had to look for it again. Could not remember were it was. Now I found it...halleluja!
In the meantime I was on another site HOW LONG IS LONG ENOUGH, and there on page 8 somebody by the name of REV R mentioned your name, and he told me that I would like you...well see for yourself! Now give me a chance to find out if he is right...
So far he is spot on...
I like your point of view...
Nice meeting you in cyberspace...
Now I have to eat something and I'm back later...
The subject of this discussing seems to be on many web-sites. On Yahoo Answer they also have it; but there seem to be many fanatics on that site...I dont know why they cant see that trying to push our believes onto others will only push them further away...and all this in the name of God/Jeus/ ect.
..sad, really!

I think bigotry and bias may be instilled into believers, in matters of faith, because there is a place within themselves that holds faith it is right to harbor bigotry and bias, generally. Faith imparts a domain in this and the next life. Or the after life. And as one clings to a faith that speaks to what it means to exist "rightly" in both worlds , it is something that is diametrically composed of that which they fear about both worlds. It therefore imparts a sense of solace that if one but believes rightly, they shall be assured to continue and prosper and be safe for the exercise.

So when they then encounter others that do not believe as they do, that which gives one solace, the one sees reflected there their own fears of how it feels, what it means, not to feel so safe in themselves. Because, when one thinks about the whole thing, how can it ever bother anyone else, how anyone else lives in faith of anything at all!? Whether it be holding faith there is no god, or holding faith there is. When one chooses to hold faith in what ever feels right to them, it affects no one else, save those that believe from their perspective it is a fact that other faith is wrong. Because for them, it is. But that doesn't make it true for anyone else, not them. One's offense toward others entitlement to a personal life, is a direct reflection on the level of maturity and security one feels living what they defend as an entitlement in their own.

It really doesn't speak to others, from an offensive righteous foundation. Rather I read it as speaking of one's self when they defend a personal faith. standing there from their point of view, seeking to convince others their view is skewed. Just because it happens not to see things their way. That's not right-eous. That's arrogance, fear and ignorance. That exercise of a subjective consciousness wherein the one absolute, is faith precludes fact.

What is one defending then, when they claim they are right and others are wrong, in matters of faith, in giving voice to a pronouncement that's actually saying, everyone should see things their way so as to make them not feel so defensive?!

I have no qualms about my faith I am right to believe as an atheist does.
How on Earth can that threaten anyone else not living as me?!

We could learn so much about each other, if we just didn't feel threatened by others.

Thanks GoddessWhisper for sharing. Could not have said it better...

...and I like your new Avatar...

Aw, thank you.

kba your voice helps alot of people, its real and meant to help and it shows in your posts, and trying to educate those about religion.......You may be a hero and courageous to many ...you are to me......

Supra Sheri, I fully aggree with you...
Wow KBA, you really said it and I know how you feel, except that with me it was the reverse. When my kids started becomming so-called reborn Christian, they treated me the way parents treated you, because I dont allow them to brainwash me like they are brainwashed. Yet they are good kids; one reason why I left the country, not to have to argue with them about religion...
Now they aprechiate me, because they hartly see me, and when we do, we other things to talk about...