I say 550 next week. Now there's a butterfly effect, it will not split this December instead it will split next year at 800.


Any services rendered is as good as any product produced. You bill your customer, client on your services. You pitch in products related to your services and that makes a sound business plan.
You have to show first the cash flow of your business before you can ask any investors their money. They won't throw any money without knowing the cash flow.

I would say that it IS the skeptic's fault that whenever someone around here asks for help with psi-related things, the common skeptic will jump in randomly and say useless things and demand proof. Very counterproductive.

All the "I can do THIS, isn't it cool?!" deserve the above treatment, though.

Asking for "help" - but then here is the problem, as I quote from my prior post:


So I guess - who is helping who to do what??

The "believer" isn't able to do the extreme Psi stuff - "Constructs"
The Authors of books offering help cannot help.
The "teachers" same - ALL of them exist inside the Personal Subject Realm - so if the "believer" - "Authors" and "Teachers" cannot move outside the PSR - what help is there to offer??

Jj -

How about this. Predict what number my girlfriend is going to tell me. I'm going to ask her to give me a random 3 digit number. I'll ask her to give me the number the next time I see her AFTER you post.

Answering questions was classified as help the last time I checked.

Also, constructs aren't very "extreme" as you put it. I can make simple ones, like hot/cold, etc. Very basic programming.

And as for the PSR you're so proud of, I've moved light objects in front of my friends, and I've also had them feel the contructs I mentioned above, so technically, that is OUT of the PSR.

Has nothing to with being 'so proud of' as just a very real and more common reality in this. Observation does not have to do with "pride'" at all - anymore than I would say, "trees are objective reality' - it just 'is'.

Jj -

469

And unless this is rigged somehow you will not get it right.

It has probably been said already, but a key reason is that people want to be special and do something that isn't everyday. Escapism in a way.

Actually I've not read that yet - but easily could of missed that.

The "feeling special" - I've read. This area of Psi-Constructs leaves me at a loss. How is that one could feel "special" in creating nothing, except a 'feeling' between their hands that is easily nothing more then just your nerves from just holding your hands this way.

Look at me, "I'm special.." I can do "this" and 'create this' with my hands when I'm a lone..."

I've actually talked to a few doctors about this - who also I might have tried/experiemented with this. The feeling is nothing more than just a nerve sensation. One doctor even ran a couple of nerve tests doing this at his practice. It's just nerves, nothing more and nothing less.

It was also stated by these doctors that there would be a very solid way to prove if these "constructs" are real - Thermal Imagining Camera. Which when he told me that - I went, "duh - of course." That would with no question prove or dis-prove this 'hands down' - (no pun intended.)

what are they wanting to escape from? I am lost as to why one would choose an empty persuite to escape to? Especially since this investment of 'money' has yet to show any return? None, I mean after 20+years there is nothing that has ever developed from it, what this of all things?? After a given year and with a few two - they leave it because it's empty and has no meaning.

Hmmm....

I guess I would wonder:

Why not persue Remote Viewing? That at least has a very real and valid track record.

Jj -

Explain the resistance that keeps my hands from moving together.

Also, explain how others can feel the cold constructs that I make.

That barely made sense. I think you misunderstood my post.

And you're yet to respond to my breaching your PSR.

You are right I did forget the words "do" & "focal point' - and 'anything'
"Has nothing to DO with being, 'so prode of', ... " very real and more common reality in this 'focal point'. ... does not have "anything" to do with "pride".... I apologize for the typo - typo's happen. My thoughts move faster then my fingers do at times. It happens.

As for you "breaching PSR" - you didn't 'breach' it - you simply made an "internet statement" that well actually, there is no way to validate or prove. So there was nothing to respond to - the claim was an 'interenet claim' - nothing more and nothing less.

Jj -

-- Ok, based on this question not being new - I'll tell you the same thing as I have told others who asked this.

They more than not got very PO'd and usually was met with no small name calling and told where to go or what I could do with myself. But they would NEVER go to the dotors and ask, they simply avoided it. Even when I told them take the "psi" out of it - Just show them what you are doing and what you feel/felt. Leave it in the physical realm only. Then it would be really safe.... But still they would not, for obvious reasons... as is pretty much always the case: They did not want to hear the answer.....

Ask a couple of doctors about this, ya - YOU go ask, since I doubt you'd believe me. Explain the resistance and such and show them exactly what you are doing - yes show them. They will all give you the same answers. There is a very real and straight foward answer to this. Actiually two physical dyamics are at play working together. But the doctors will explain it to you ....

--- I will answer this one in a seperate post.... The answer has a couple of explinations, which have nothing to do with "PSI".

Jj -

That is why I do my best – not always successful – to define what I am talking about.

IE: Post #1 dated: Jjbreen Nov 18 2006, 10:17 PM
I actually thought that it was a pretty clear focal point? But hey I could be wrong. Even through the thread I did try to keep to ‘focal point’ defined.

The again the answer is – read carefully, because it was honestly stated and even stated my acceptance of RV, Telepathy, Empathic Senses and such. I do try to be as clear as I can be.
And um so? Are you suggesting that I am not supposed to or ab allowed to voice my thoughts, observations and findings on this?? Especially if the findings challenge 'this'?

Jj -

Breaking this thread of posts up for ease of reading....

Ok – how “much” is valid ‘research’, valid ‘practice’? In the past 16 yrs of my own life – this has totally come up empty. Then you take the multitude of people on the internet and add that to it – that have ‘practiced’ – ‘researched’ and also came up, empty. Then you add to that, those that make claims of ‘doing it’ can and have never been able to produce any kind of results: zero. So just how much is going to be needed? Right now I can easily say with no reservations, ‘the Psi Construct claims are and have been proven: NOT TRUE.

So I have to ask – just exactly, HOW MANY PEOPLE, HOW MANY HOURS and HOW MANY YEARS will it take before it's except:DOES NOT WORK?? Cause when one figures out the man hours, days and years already that has been in ‘play’ for this with no results – when is it reasonable to say, “not going to happen, not real..”??


But see no one has produced anything but excuses when asked to honestly validate their claims.
Yes, asking for validation is a reasonable expectation from those who hear a claim made.

It is a very real and long term FACT OF LIFE. From science, investments, music and art, when a claim is made, validation is ALWAYS asked for and should be expected.

One would not invest their money in a claim. They would look for validation before they invest.

If one is going through a medical procedure, one asks for expectations and results.

When ever money and/or time is asked for, people always ask for validation, expectations, confirmation before they invest. So why is this any different??

But see no one has produced anything but excuses when asked to honestly validate their claims. Yes asking for validation is a reasonable expectation from those who hear a claim made. It is a very real and long term FACT OF LIFE. From science, investments, to you name it ... when a claim is made, validation is ALWAYS asked for and should be expected. One would not invest their money in a claim. They would look for validation before they invest. If one is going through a medical procedure, one asks for expectations and results. When ever money and/or time is asked for, people always ask for validation, expectations, confirmation before they invest. So why is this any different??

Besides I have invested 16+ years into this and have found nothing and no one that can ‘step up to the plate’, except with excuse after excuse. So again – where does one begin to ‘draw the line’ and say, ‘this does not work…’??


You are making a likely false assumption that they haven’t tried and put out the effort. Actually I know a good many people that have over the past 20+ years. Given the same conditions, “maybe..”, “if….”, “might….” – IF – practiced enough. But here to again is the ‘clincher’: the ‘teachers’, the ‘believer’ and the ‘authors’ – NONE of them have stepped up with any, none, zip evidence, proof or validation. Why is that, honestly??

Again as stated, in 20+ years, NO ONE has been able to step up to the ‘bat’ and say, “Here it is – and - yes… PROVE IT. In this case, VALID PROOF, not ‘hear say’ or ‘Personal Subject Reality’, this is not proof. PSR is simply, hear say – UNTIL one can give valid proof, that can be verified. Which again I submit: HAS NEVER BEEN DONE! Why is that??

See let me give an example:
Remote Viewing – for instance.
It has been documented by even the greatest of skeptics.
It has been filmed, again by the greatest of skeptics. All of which passed to the point – it is considered: VALID. People made claims and did step and gave VALID evidence, VALID proof, all of which could be verified without “fine print”.

Where are the Psi Construct and Energy Manipulators??
Why is it they cannot and will not do this?

See there are two tools out there that would easily verify and prove this: EMF detectors and Thermal Image Cameras. Yes they actually would do this. But some who practice the “Construct and Energy Manipulation” are quick to say, “No it won’t!” Not because it will not – because they do not want it to! They reject anything that could/would validate this with NO SMALL EMOTIONS. Why is this?? (Rhetorical question.)

Jj -

True. I had my first experience not long ago. I went to turn off a light switch and it cut off before I touched it. I tried my best to debunk it but to no avail. Had an eye witness to it to.
And no, the place isnt haunted. I will admit it was unsettling and I did'nt like it. Hopefully it wont happen again.

As for you other post:
Well define what you mean and how they would “screwed over”, please.

“What they go through and what they deal with”…
IF I understand the focal point here, then this is of their own choice.

See here in lies one of the points that I find seriously curious: -- They choose to believe what could easily be seen as a "lie" and one might say a “scam”. Let me explain:

The "lie/scam" of the so called “Psi-Wheel” aka, the all to well known Pin-Wheel.

I know some people in the Psi-Energy Construction/Manipulation that actually believe this is done via: Psi Energy. When it has been only all to well proven it is nothing more than the simple laws of Thermodynamics.

They will argue, not with facts but emotions, it’s not thermodynamics, but Psi. They choose to believe the "lie/scam" and denounce the obvious and clear science of it all. Now the question has to be asked: What other "lies/scams" have they bought into? If one believes the "lies/scam" of the pin-wheel and continues to build on this as one of their, “see this worked!!” acclimations, what other falsehoods have been bought?

I know one Psi-Energy/Manipulation group where a group was in a Real-Time chat. They were ‘sharing their construct/manipulations’ with each other online. I actually asked one of the chatters, “Why did you say you felt this person’s construct, when nothing actually happened and you felt nothing?” Please note their answer….> “They just need some positive encouragement to continue to practice and grow…” Note they did not deny that they ‘felt nothing..’, did not even ask ‘how I knew..’ They were “encouraging another with, basically, a lie”, pure and simple. Telling them they felt something, when in all actuality they felt NOTHING and didn’t even deny this! This other person, who was basically told a lie, all in the guise of “encouragement”, is continuing to practice a ‘lie’, in this case.

I know many groups, a couple where I've been banned - only because I raise questions, pure and simple. I suggested a possible answer of science at play and was banned, period. All because I offered a possible answer of science. SO NOT WANTED AND WELCOMED. This is NOT uncommon at all. WHY IS THAT??

Back the Pin-Wheel example and the above chat and with the 20+ track record – one seriously and rightly has to question – what is going on? The emotional choosing to ignore science, being told ‘lies of encouragement’ and such and finally NO ONE can step up, as in the case with Remote Viewing and say, “Here it is!”

Not a good foundation at all, if you ask me. Not good at all.

Jj -

Medical Doctor will only explains the function of the physical human body. They will not explain and cannot explain any metaphsical phenomena. What they can do is give you drugs and do invasive procedure to your physical body.

The above is true - but there is a biological answer to the 'sensation' that is felt to the 'oposite magnetic' sensation that people feel. Yes there is a very basic answer.

Jj -

You still missed the point of my pride-related post.

I DID breach it, but don't worry, I didn't expect you to believe me. And, I expected you to respond to the claim.

How am I suppose to respond to a claim that cannot even come close to be validated?? You can no more validate this claim of your "Breach".

I mean I could say, "ok - prove it..." Prove you have moved your Psi Constructs/Manipulation outside of the PSR." Now - how on earth are you going to proved any valid proof?? See - there is nothing to respond to in all actuallity. You've made a claim that you cannot prove or validate. A friend? No it could easily be stated, "your friend is playing alone w/the claim. So nothing would be gained from that.

So I guess - here in I will simply ask this: What valid evidence can you provide that you indeed "breeched the PSR" w/your Psi Construct/Manipulation??

Jj -

Psychological much like touchless knock out are. If they beleive they will feel cold or heat etc they will feel it. Not because it is there but because their minds beleive it is there.

That is actually one of the explinations that will be given by a doctor - you have convienced yourself - you WANT this to be there - so in your mind only, it is there.

Let me explain:
Have you ever had someone do the 'egg cracking on your head' with just their fingers? It's a very strange sensation and when done right - you feel the gross feeling of an egg being cracked and running down your head. BUT - it's not real. There is no egg, there is nothing gross running down your head - it's just your imagination. It has NOTHING to do w/Psi Constructs/Manipulation of an egg. It's just an illussion.

Jj -

That can't be true, seeing as my friends didn't know what to feel for. I simply told them, "come feel this".

I don't have evidence besides the claims of my friends, which, of course, isn't good enough for you.

But that's fine. I never planned on trying to convince you to believe me. I just felt the need to tell you you were wrong: Psi Constructs HAVE left the PSR.

That's it?? ..you "felt the need to tell me I'm wrong ...." Well I hope you 'feel better for telling me that...

Jj -

Some questions for those whose friends have witnessed their kinesis abilities, particularly the Psi-construct/elemental sort:

How long does it take to manifest this phenomena?

Were your friends present, observing you the entire time?

The reason I ask is that it could be a case of self-hypnosis (of a mild sort). I'm no hypnotist but there do seem to be similarities in the process.

Another possibility is that other paranormal abilities are actually being used. For example the 'soft' abilities Jj has mentioned as being proven are not known how to work. Their existence has been verified but not their mechanism of function.

It is possible that those who make claims of the 'hard' abilities, and say their friends have witnessed this may, be using the 'soft' abilities to project the belief in the kinesis manifestation.

Both these methods could explain why it [kinesis abilities] can be witnessed by sympathetic observers but not when mechanical/electronic means of observation are used.

I will not say the kinesis abilities cannot exist, but it is true they have not been proven to exist; not in the same way the soft, non-physical/non-elemental abilities have been proven. As Jj tries to suggest, a serious study using valid observational and testing techniques would go a long way to resolving the issue if you are confident you can demonstrate these abilities.

Oh man... this is retarded. Why even bother argueing?

I say this...

If you don't like people saying Psi does not exist, then prove it does. If you can't, then shut up and stop whining.

I've been thinking the past couple of days. Perhaps instead of just saying "prove it!" we should request a very specific type of construct and issue it as a challenge and list very specific means of documenting it(in a single thread). As a control we have a group of skeptics attempting to create this construct under the same restrictions. I have an idea for this "experiment," but it could probably use some buttressing. Firstly we need to stop bickering and work together on this. Any takers?

Medical Doctor expertise is on the physical human body and its function. You ask a doctor on metaphysics they will answer only with what they understand about the physical human body.

You should ask a Metaphysical Doctor or Specialist.

For expirement, how about proving that a simple psychic butterfly can create a tornado?

If your going to tell people their wrong at least proove yourself or show some evidence. If you never planned on convincing anyone then why even bother. If you going to say assumptions are wrong then as I said back it up.

The failure rate is so high and actually very real and even understood -

Here is proof -- YES PROOF.

The Authors of these books....

The "teachers" of this....

The ones that practice hours upon hours --

Where are they?

Why are the Authors not in the front of the line with evidence and proof?
Why are the "teachers" not in the front of the line with evidence and proof?

In fact forget the front of the line - why are they not even in the line??

Do not excuse them -
..... --> They have your money!
..... --> They have your devotion in practicing what they 'preach'!
So where are they when really needed to back up what they say??

YES - ask this question and then listen for the silent answer.

Simply put, they know the truth, do not get into the line - if what they 'preach' is such a 'sure thing' - then why the reservation to step in line and show us the 'truth'??

Where is their CREDIBLITY? Where is their INTEGRITY? Where is their sense of ACCOUTNABLITY?? Where are they??

Why won't they commit with: Yes if X-hours are devoted to this. Or X method is followed - or you get your money back on the book! Wow, you know how many books would be returned and pulled from the shelves?? All of them!

If they did step in line - they would be 'found out' to be the frauds that they are. Their books sales would be pulled and they would be in debt!

The Teachers would loose their status - for they cannot do what they say 'might', 'should', 'could' happen. IF YOU DO THIS - they would be exposed. (They know they cannot do this, but it's such a 'bill of goods' that people simply buy into.) WHY DO WE BUY INTO THIS SO EASILY - when we wouldn't do this in other areas of our lives??

Bottom line - in 20+ years there is NO CREDIBLE evidence for this. 20+ years and 10's of 1,000's of hours - they have no credible evidence to offer - no credible proof to offer - there is NOTHING to offer. They won't step up for one simple reason: THEY KNOW THEY WILL FAIL. Pure and simple. PROOF: Where are they? Yes lack of presence is evidence.

Jj -

Can you name one author? What is the title of the book you are referring to?

At this point - I am going to encourage you to do some of your own homework. Yes they are easy to find - some even have add link on UM as a matter of fact!

PLus you can easily go (point and click) to other Psi websites and you will find authors and 'teachers' - all of which, have their hand out to take money - but are never in line, front or back.

So in this case: Seek and you'll find!

Jj -

Hey it's on my list.

It's probably one of these (mousehere) "you did not started it" training video

WOW - that was fun to watch - Nice link!!

Jj -

As I said above, I felt the need to tell him that he was wrong and psi has left the PSR.

The truth is the truth, backed up with evidence or not.

Ok, Kazuma - I have an honest and truthful deal for you - I would like you to give me $100.00 to $500.00. I will invest it in a sure deal. It will triple. The $100.00 will be come $300.00 and so on. You will get $200.00 and I keep $100.00 for time. Hey and I'm telling you the truth man! I even have 4 friends that will back this up. They are telling the truth too.

So I would like you to invest in this deal with me...

Jj -

Triad -

Sorry I missed this link. I read it - GREAT post!

This is exactly what I am talking about. This is obviously very real and verifiable test that would be hard to dispute.

This is the sort of evidence / proof that I am talking about in this so called Psi Construct/Manipulation - where is it?? Where are these 'preachers' of this?

As stated - they won't try this kind of testing, in that they know it will not happen. Other wise we would see at least a few people in line at least a few.

As stated - if the teachers won't step up - maybe because the teachers know the truth, other wise they would step up and say, "Here is what I teach..." So, umm - where are they??

Jj

I have re-read all the posts and kept coming back to this - because I agree, NO ONE has addressed the pointed questions that I have asked through this thread... They addressed the 'easy' escape tangents - but never addressed the very pointed questions that I have asked.

So is anyone going to answer the orginal focal points of this thread??

IE:
Like with the TWIN telepathy.
Like Remote Viewing

I even suggested to means that would visually would easily confirm this:

EMF meters and Thermal Image Cameras -

Both of these, especially together would easily document this quite easily and very clearly.

In 20+ years of 1,000's of 1,000's of people, which easily equal a WHOLE LOT OF Hours, Days, Weeks and Years - where is one piece of evidence??

People are practicing the EXACT same stuff - as 20 years ago, 10 years ago and 5 years ago -.... and yet NOTHING comes forward as proof, evidence or validation. It's the same old stuff, lines, excuses and 'mind/word' games.

Why in 20+ years has this not shown one second of anything that can be seen, proven as valid??

Jj -

If we are wrong then at least provide evidence other then your BS 'my friends know it's true'. How do we know that your not just lying and that you don't have friends to back up this claim?

We don't and so before you start flappin your gums about how people are wrong you have to back it up bottom line.

To be honest I don't beleive a word you say so before you make up a claim at least provide evidence. Hell why not go and get that million dollar prize if you can do such feats....

The absense of evidence regarding such claims by you and other wack jobs out there is not helping your cause. If you want people to beleive you, you have to throw us a bone to chew on. You can't just make a claim without backing it up.

I honestly would beleive if the evidence was in the favor of such abilities but there is none and this lack of evidence is evidence supporting that no such powers exist. So before you feel the need to tell the skeptics they are wrong well you better be prepared to back it up.

Because I feel it does not exist.

To get back on track -





You are right - you cannot prove it - very well stated.

Why can't you prove it??

You or anyone lacks the proof of finding even 1 person that can or would be willing to step forward and say, "Look here it is, this is what it's all about. Bring on the termal cameras, bring on the EMF detectors. Bring on the digital thermometer. I'm ready to back up what I claim."

See that's the whole point - no one will do this. Why, because in very simple terms: They know they would fail.

You cannot find 1 person in 100 people or 1 person in a 1,000. Not one person in all the 1,000's is or would be willing to step forward - because they know they would fail.

That's a pretty clear message of the all to real fear of failure.

Jj -

The way that the subject and OP are worded, as well as several pages of subsequent posts I have managed to read, I can't tell what is being discussed at all. Is it just psychokinesis? Psi in general? The question is stated very poorly.

It's all a bunch of BS and no one brings evidence of anything except saying well my freinds beleive me and I can't.

Psychokinesis is BS as well as Psi.

I can telepath to my cousins. How I do it? I think about one of my cousins, I relax then concentrate and visualise my cousin infront of me. It's like a hologram really as if we were talking in arms reach.

Practice that and hope you can connect. If you can't, don't worry you can always phone anyone.

I will call you a liar as this prooves nothing for skeptics and is really a useless post in this thread.

Hey gang - let's not make this nasty that the admins close the thread.. Please?

Thanks -

Call whatever you want. I don't mind.