You say things like this all the time but why should I beleive you when you present no evidence to support your case.

Us scientists and skeptics do beleive in stuff we cannot see. We can't see an electron or a proton etc but we know they are there because we can use it and measure it. However no one can utilize energy that doesn't exist like chi etc.



umm.....ok....

We do have potential on becoming a great species but not in the way you think it's going to happen.



Tell that to the growing number of athiests and skeptics out there like me. Humans will eventually stop beleiving crap like this.



I am one of the people who does research and if it weren't for people using what is developed and supporting the furthering of technology and science we would not have gotten as far as we have.



My opinion is that people who beleive they can acheive super powers are stupid. As for debating you just pop in every once in a while and make cliched obscure posts from time to time not really relating to anything we are talking about.

Give us evidence to support your claims and then it will be a real debate or give us proof and end the debate.

Look at the horrible things that religion has caused. Bad comparison.

What was you getting at!!! Ohh!! I get it you just wanted to be sort of ignorant and sarcastic and try to make me look stupid when you didn't even read what was being told!!

I shouldn't expect someone who would never believe in the human race but believes in machines that would probably destroy us one day have anything positive about what he/she read!!

Is that what all skeptics believe; that the people who believe in the paranormal and greater potential for the human race are just stupid because they believe in something other than you want reality to be ?? Is this what it is that our reality on life and our beliefs make us crazy and stupid??

I can say this that we know just as much about science and technological advances just as much as you do, we just rather think that are more for the human race other than technology and science OPEN MINDED TO OTHER POSSIBILITIES!!

Machines didn't make this planet, this universe, our soul, and most of all the human race!!! Science only explains what and how it happened from a molecular, atomic, and evolutionary point of view!!

Sorry for the inconvience of proof but it will come soon other than that if it hasn't come which it will try to stop debunking our beliefs and statutory way of living!!!


DhA...OraCle
-Randy W.

Chi and a soul has been validated to work in the things tht some cultures and hspitals cure by!! do your research!!!

So you believe that consciousness, a soul, and all energy formed around humans (aura) are going to be just childrens talk very soon and should very much happen!! These are things that makes us human not machines!! Saying something like that makes it soulnd like the future of humans will be boring, sort of like everyone being controlled by a some type of technology thinking the same way!! Even so there will be people still believing that we are not made of machines and a motherboard, but something better than machines witha brain and the potential to build such things and destroy them!! Does most of the human race not believe in human potential and only thinks that it will end like this. The mind has many obstacles to go through and have many stages to it even though we still have not figured out everything that deals with the brain. We have figured out what parts of the brain does what but not the full potential for it!! As long as that is to be present there is always hope that the human race has a greater potential for the future other than machines!! Next thing you know 50% of the earth's population will be 50% part machine or man made material!!!

DhA...OraCle
-Randy W.

Yes. I will be a cyborg soon and rule the world. You are using a hated machine to post this stuff. YOU must love machines too.

Do you realize what you sound like?

I know what it sounds like. We put our lives into machines too much rather than ourselves. We rather look into a computer than ourselves!!

Also technology or science is something great to love; wait I kinda of do because knowledge anything that I can learn I love even science, paranormal, consciousiential would be great to the already knowledge that is acquired by myself and others!!

DhA...OraCle
-Randy W.

Randy -

U do one thing very well - avoid the topic at hand. U R great at taking tangents and saying things that keep U from avoiding addressing the issue.

A. The claims made are not made based on faith. The claims made are being made and presented as PHYSICAL FACTS; "Ball" - that can be HOT or COLD.

HOT & COLD are physicals that can be measured by thermometeres or thermal cameras. This can be validated with SCIENCE. Not explained - but validated.

The claims are presented to have the PHYSICAL sensation of MAGNETS - This is PHYSICAL. Thus it can be measured by a EMF detector or again a THERMAL CAMERA.

There are other more totally outlandish claims of these "Constructs" being physical - but I won't go to them - for the obvious reason - U cannot and have not offered any proof of these from the one person that it maters to have the proof from --> Y O U

You point everywhere - even to videos that wound up backfiring. You made statements about the wineglass dude that were not true - U wound up with a serious "OOPS" on your hands.

Then you pointed to the asian dude. For which you have NO CLUE what he did and/or how he did it. You are assuming, like you did with the wine glass dude, "this is real" -

But the bottom line - U cannot offer any evidence or proof of the actual physical nature of this from your own life. Your life evidence does not support the reality you wish to have us accept.

Why is this?? - Why do you not back this up with your own life??

I quote again from my friend. Why? Because I would like you or any to point out where the flaw is in what he says:
Where is yours or for that matter anyone elses answer to the above?? Where is YOUR proof and evidence from your life?? Why are YOU not stepping up and saying - "Here is the proof of what I claim and speak of??" Quit pointing to someone else. Back up what YOU claim? If it's as real as you claim - then simply back up your 'reality'.

The GOD tangenet is just that - "I will avoid the above, by talking about God. He will be my escape from answering the above." NOPE... no escape hatch here....

Jj -

Nice as i will bring you proof and evidence since you cry about it!!!!!

I can't wait for your proof......good luck.

The question is -> WHEN??

a.) A few days?

b.) A few weeks?

c.) A few months?

d.) A few years?

e.) When I evolve?

Please answer with one of the above and the give how many - so we know when to expect this. Thanks....

I say long enough for you to forget it. He will never provide anything other then his poetry.

If it's a psi-wheel video or something stupid like that I won't even acknowledge it as evidence.

Agreed.
Here's something I thought about...
If all these psi claims happen to be true, and they really can make lights and move paper/foil with their minds, then good for them. They can perform a neat party trick.

But how is it beneficial? I mean jeez... Years to be "good" enough to nudge a piece of paper or foil. Someone with this talent will have died of old age before they're able to put it to any real use.
I hardly see the point.

Their soul and consciousness learns it, and the lessons and experiences they have with it will be stored into the soul and consciousness for further use in the future. Or some people may be able to tap into other abilities or energy to increase their talents, which can be put to use for any purpose they want.

Interesting, I'd like to see a video of that, instead of spinning paper or lights.

Because the real teachers don't really have time for people who keep repeating the same doubts over and over instead of listening and trying whatever it is that they want 'proof' and 'evidence' for. Instead of wasting time and energy sitting here online arguing who is right and who is wrong is pointless, why doesn't anyone just get off their behinds to experience, practice, and study it? Isn't that something worth doing? Anybody can achieve what it is they want as long as they have determination and willingness to learn and do. Unless a person is either brain dead, or paralyzed, I don't see the point of trying to debunk or prove something online when people have the capability to prove it to themselves and experience so that they can gain a deeper understanding and comprehension. The way to truly understand and learn is to experience and pracitce. Every person is different, so they may or may not find certain proof for certain things, because they are either missing something or they haven't learned well enough, or a million of other possibilities as to why. How can anybody know how metaphysics truly is, and how it truly works when they barely have any knowledge and experience in it? I'm not just talking about one person, but many people. A person can start singing about what they understand and know from their experiences about metaphysics, but not everyone can or will understand and comprehend everything or even anything that person is saying until they get off their comfy seats and go out there to learn.
Let me give a simple example...A person who does not know any foreign language was given a book only in French, and they were told to recite and then explain what each paragraph means. You really think that they would understand everything that it said in the book? Or would they need to take time for a class, or time to get a translation book to work out what it all means.
Metaphysics is something that is of holistic development and maturity, you take steps to learn, just like any other subject, you don't just simply leap into it and make a absolute statement.

In other words.....................you can't provide any evidence either.

You are correct sir. Fancy words that once again dodge the bullet. More, and more excuses.

*sigh* You don't get it do you? No one will ever truly learn anything to do for-themselves, when they barely have any personal experience for themselves to --understand/comprehend-- what really is happening, whether it be fake or real, they won't be able to tell. Nor be able to understand and comprehend what anyone is trying to teach them either. That is why they need more experience to acquire the knowledge, comprehension/understanding they need. Proof and evidence over the net is only so much, and people can only do and learn so much online.

Without proof no one will ever, ever take it seriously. Why would they?

Did you even read what was written from post #316?

As much as I hate parroting people, I agree that you're just "dodging the bullet."
If someone levitated a truck 8 feet into the air, in front of me, with nothing but their mind, I don't think anyone would have trouble "comprehending" it. How much experience do you need to see that the truck is being levitated and there's no other possible explanation for the levitation than Psi? Just because people don't read so much of their own ideas/imagination into seeing a paper move, doesn't mean they're incapable of believing any REAL evidence. (Which seems to have yet to present itself, btw.)

Nicely said !! It is also that some of these people are just looking or us to do something so that they can try and practice it without feeling stupid !!

Mostly that is what it is; once it is figured out people skeptics and believers would all be ones to follow!! Believers who have already been practicing it get inspiration and skeptics who finally feel comfortable enough to try and practice it themselves !!

I know that is not what it is; some type of psi or paranormal power stating to where you could use it for everyday things in your life to make you lazy!! That is not what it is for. It is for enhancing the mind and having some fun along the way of furthering your consciousness!!

If it is not how about one of you skeptics try and practice it through a personal experience and not just telekinesis!! Try and practice it for weeks on hand and see where it leads you and your experiences !!

DhA...OraCle
-Randy W.

Good point. If there was any truth in it, the James Randi would be a million dollars poorer by now.

I never said nor agreed to show anything for anybody. Its great that people assume that I did.
I'm not dodging the bullet, even if someone did use telekinesis to show you that they can levitate a car above their heads, you'd get proof, but you wouldn't truly 'learn' anything to learn and have the comprehension to be able to do it yourself.
What I had said in all of my posts is to try to get people to study, practice, and experience so that they can provide proof for themselves and others if they choose so. There are lessons and steps that a person needs to learn before ever being able to just simply do telekinesis, why not begin learning and experiencing it first, so that if you or others were to meet someone creditable, they can teach you something more so that you are able to go forward in learning more. And how does anyone expect to find creditable people who can teach them something useful when they don't go out there to look for it? Instead of sitting here online trying to debunk it without any personal experience. I also said that everyone is different in some way, so they may find or be able to do something that other's can't, or have not thought about doing.
The use for it, well, its knowledge and experience, why else would there be studies? Why else would there be schools for people to learn in? Jobs, majors, economics, science, etc... it was all created to give people something to do, and to learn from.

I don't recall any school that teaches how to use imaginary powers.
Practice what you want but don't call it real if you can't even provide a shread of proof.

First – You did the same thing that has been stated: You gave an “excuse” for the ‘teachers’. That is all it is, an excuse. Actually if they were any serious teacher – they would be front and center, showing by example – wait they are! They excuse themselves – they cannot prove it – they can and do give the only thing that everyone else gives: EXCUSES – NOTHING MORE & A LOT LESS!!

For when is it ever a ‘waste of time’ to show the students what you teach, what you mean?? What good teacher lets the student take the ‘fall’ and the ‘flake’?? A true teacher would stand up and silence the crowd and say, “Shut up – you know not what you speak. You want proof? Good, then here it is! Students take heart; here is exactly what this is all about!” – So where is this ‘teacher’?? -- They do not come forward, not because it’s a “waste of time” – unless you are a really cold hearted teacher! They do not come forward, for they know like the students – they cannot validate what they claim! They have taught the students well the foundation of this focal point: E X C U S E S!

See I would never do this to a student. I would never say, “Here do this… if you practice a lot – (results may vary) – you too can do “psi balls”…” No I would show them by example – I would put up. I would expect honest challenges and questions and even doubts. I would address each and everyone. In the End their doubts, questions, would be put to rest – because they would SEE, EXPERIENCE and CONSISTANTLY what I speak of. There would be NO DOUBTS.

But that’s me – my method of teaching is by example – not by excuses and what seems to be: “Students, you are on your own…” – so not cool!!

So it would stand, logically – Since no teacher can or will stand up – it’s because they know they cannot deliver. Any good teacher would – for their students sake if no other reason.

Jj -

Here's the evidence.
http://www.youtube.com/v/3JYGqVA9xc4

To see it personally, you have to travel to China. Right now I am in the process of arranging with a travel agency a Qi gong tour in China.

Cheapest tour on PSI catgory.
1. Airlines/Bus - still bidding for the cheapest package
2. PSI demonstration - Monk Monastery
a. PSI demonstration - PSI ball
b. PSI demonstration - Metal
c. PSI demonstration - Fire
d. PSI demonstration - Water
e. PSI demonstration - Earth
bonus tour
3. Great Wall
4. 3 Gorges Dam
5. China's Pyramid

Price: 40 thousand dollars for forty days including travel in bus and plane.

Not really I have no interest in practicing such things I am just more interested in those who supposedly can.


I think it's funny how you said you would provide proof and that everyone would beleive you. I am still waiting to be converted into a beleiver. As I said it's not that i don't want to it's that I can't beleive you and others cause you don't give us anything to beleive in other then your word.


I furthered my conscioussness with LSD and shrooms, no magic powers there just really awesome drugs.



Again you said you would provide us with proof Randy and I am holding you to it so don't turn the tables on us when you make claims you can't back up. You want humanity to go through a 'spiritual' revolution then you have no choice nut to prove to us you have powers. As I said I won't forget you said you would give us proof just like I won't forget that you said Jet Li and Jackie Chan movies helped you in your martial arts training and that they were great masters.

Stop wasting our time with useless posts and give us the goods like you said you would... Unless of course your a liar...

I echo Ganja's sentiments.....its a lost cause.
Why don't you just admit that you live in a fantasy land.

Unless, you know, that whole thing was a scam.

(PSST! It was.)

The Randi prize is up and he has prooven he has the money to give away. You can't call something a scam when no one tries to win the money. Baseless assumptions because in reality no one can hold up under scientific scrutiny.

I've read a story of someone who contacted him about what form the money was in. He refused to give a straight, simple answer, and tried to turn it around on the guy applying, saying that he was never interested in the first place.

All the guy wanted to know was what form the money was in. If it was in bonds, for example, he wouldn't be able to touch the million dollars for years.

What was the end result of this entire fiasco?

The money WAS in bonds.

http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html#3.1

Seems pretty straight forward to me the money is there at the Goldman Sachs. He has not givin anyone any reason to doubt the money. Infact if you contact the JREF they will provide you with an account statement verifying the money exists. Since the JREF is a non-profit organization they have to provide this information upon public request.

Just because the money is in Bonds does not mean years he just put it in Bonds as a way to show the public that the money exists.

I quote from the website:


10 days is not years....

Besides if the money wasn't there they are advertizing a million dollar prize and you can sue and presumably end up with more then a million dollars if you pass the test. Either way it's a win win for whoever passes the test.

This is a 'nice phrase' - but that is all it is - a nice phrase. Actually as I have already stated, a real, honest and good teacher would provide ample evidence and proof of what he/she is teaching. So where is the teachers of this??

Case in point - one will find NO TEACHERS to come forward. Why - the teachers that were being followed are on Annima series/shows. On Star Wars, on X-Men and Mutant-X. In other words - they were/are cartoon characters and actors! They certainly will not come forward because they are very aware it was CGI - Special Effects, nothing more...

That is the foundation of this. Pure and simple: Actors and Cartoon Characters.

Jj -

And it's fair that you have to meet HIS standards of proof?

We haven't based our Psionics practices on cartoons and movies, you know.

Prove anything about the subject............anything.
You can't.

Astral projection, remote viewing, as well as some micro telekinesis have all been documented.

Damn if I know where those documentations are, though. Do some digging.

Yep it is fair and scientific as well. What would your standards be a psi-wheel?

No....I won't waste my time digging.
If you have proof then show it.

Preech on brother SwampGator...

They make a claim it is their responsibility not ours they have evidence or proof they should post it or simply shut up.

BINGO !!!

To get HIS money, yes.

Great thread! Let's continue to try and make these crazy people see some sense. Nobody can do anything extraordinary....unless by that you mean juggling chainsaws.

X granpa. Haiiiikk.

http://www.youtube.com/v/3JYGqVA9xc4

It exist only to select group of X humans.

If I could bann certain links I would - this would be at the top of my list!

Plus 3rd - if you are unable to point to yourself as an example - then you have nothing to show.

Oh why I don't like this video -

A. Table is covered with cloth. WHY??
B. Look at the motions of his objects - they jerk, like well magnets.
C. Why does he look at the bottom of the table??
D. Why does he need to "yell"?? Psi is not vocal - it's thought.
Yell is like slight of hand, IF I yell loud enough you will not look else where, you will look at me. NO, I looked at the table - and a couple of things had to be yelled at twice...
E. Why not take the table cloth off the table to move the bowl?? Why did you need to put a board on top of the cloth??

This test does not prove anything - but rasises more questions and doubts that it answers...

Plus - 3rd - You totally have no clue who this guy is, what he is and if he's not saying, "Silly American kids want to believe the annima that come from here. They think we do this all the time. Silly Americans - it's all illusions, CGI, special effects and magnets."

Again - if you canot point to the one person that is most important to prove your belief - U, then you have to point to far - thus saying, "My beliefs are not real - I cannot show you what I believe... I can talk the talk - but not walk it..."

So it all comes down to what you think a PSI phenomena can be. No yelling, No vocal, just a thought. Suddenly your word is the ultimate knowledge about what is it and what is it not. Ban? you're censoring what is out there?

It exist.

Funny how you avoided the question and point that is directed at you....

Bann - simply because it proves nothing - not censure, just well - this video proves nothing except - Yelling, Table cloths and totally clueless to what he is saying...

Plus as I have stated: You know NOTHING about this guy... Nada. You see only what you see in video... which this video proves nothing about Psi Constructs and Manipulations.... It really doesn't.

But what about you - Can You Step up and Prove Psi Balls and other Psi Constructs and Manipulations??

That is more the point - it's directed toward you and other's CAN YOU VALIDATE YOUR CLAIM AND BELIEF in the Psi ball - Constructs and Energy Manipulations??

Yes?
No?

Jj -