Once upon a time two young crows as they soured above the trees spotted a field of grain. The stalks were tall and the grains were plump so the large crow said to the smaller “come let us go down to the field and eat our fill of grain. But the smaller balked at the idea stopping in mid air and replying.

“I see a man among the grain. Surely the man is there watching the fields.”

But with a condescending smile the big crow said come follow me and I will show you the truth.” At that, to the small crow’s horror, the large crow descended landing on top of the man’s head, but unlike the warnings of their elder kinsmen the man did not move. Seeing there was no apparent danger the small crow followed landing next to his large friend with astonished amazement.
“Here me now and I will tell you the truth. Listen to me for I do not lie. Man is a myth.” The big crow informed confidently. “A fable tail devised by our shrewd and clever elders to keep us out of the fields in order that the plump grains would be theirs alone. No my small friend, man does not exist.” At that he plucked some straw from the figure on which they sat revealing the figure was an unmistakable fake. “You see my friend. It is no man. A cleaver trick of the mind. Look and see…do you think it’s only coincidence that this figure is made of the same straw our elders use to make their nests.”

“But I see a mill among the grain.” The small crow interjected “Surely our elders could not build such a grand structure. Surely man is somewhere watching the fields.”

But the big crow sneered and replied “come follow me and I will show you the truth” So the two flew up and perched in the open window of the grand mill.

Sitting in the mill window the small crow turned and said “If man is a myth then how do you explain this mill or the large piles of flour at the bottom?”

But with confident eyes the big crow replied. “Did man make this grain? Did man grind the grain into flour? No my friend. The flour was not ground to a fine powder by anything but the wind. Listen to me and I will instruct you. Hear what I have learned and you will see. Is it not the wind when it blows that turns the wheel? Is it not the wheel that turns that grinds the grain? Let us watch and you will see.”

“But how did this mill get here then? And what split the boards and drove in the nails?” the small crow asked.

“Listen to me and I will explain. Hear my explanation and you will see. Is it unknown how the lightning splits the greatest of trees. Is it not more probable that the power of natural lightning is what formed the boards. Is it not known that lightning does this regularly and the forests are set ablaze by its power?”

“But how are they here and what drove in the nails?” the small bird responded.

“Was it a man that did this? Is it not more likely that the wind preformed this feet. Have you ever seen a man or watched him carry wood. Have you ever watched a man drive in nails. Have you ever even seen a man at all? No…But was it not just last week when the mighty tornado swept through the valley. Did its winds have trouble picking up anything? Were not entire trees forced to obey its will? Did it not drive even the flimsiest straws through the bark and wood? Yes you have seen the winds with your own eyes and know the wind is well capable of both setting the wood and driving the nails. So what will you believe? What you have seen yourself or what you have been told?

Silenced and speechless the small crow could not argue a word and furthermore as he sat considering all the big crow had pointed out, the wind blew and the wheel of the mill began to turn. The two crows looked down into the mill and saw the mill stone turning and grinding the grain into fine powder and at the sight the small bird resolved to reality.

“You see.” Boasted the big crow. “It is only the wind that grinds the grain. Nothing more. Man is a myth. There is no watchmen. No angry guns lying in wait. Only the fables of past elders to keep us under control and out of the choice fields.”

So the two hopped off of their perch and happily descended to the plump succulent stalks of grain.


But their trespass was noticed. ....And their careless disregard of the warnings ended in a sharp thunderous crack realizing too late as they fell to the ground… the myth was real.

An interesting story.

The crows HAD physical evidence of a creator and ignored the myth thinking it to be false.

Whereas humans have NO physical evidence of a creator and proclaim the myth to be true.

But from the crow's perspective, the existence of the mill could have been a naturally occuring phenomena, could it not? Just as we humans look at nature and some choose to see a creator force behind it, while some say it's a naturally occuring phenomena. WHat physical proof of the existence of humans did the crows have?

Thanks for the parable, Verax. Very interesting

Thanks for the response!!!

The devils play on double minded standards. They keep a person fuddled by a slight of hand of the mind. Think about it.

We identify something as intelligent by what it does. If it reads and writes and does arithmetic correctly then we declare it intelligent. How much more intelligent is it then if it creates something that reads, writes and does arithmetic. So since we exist we know for a fact it is intelligent.

Using a double minded standard the devils will tell you it’s not really intelligent. It is just simple bottom variables acting on one another that brought all this about. But the devils will turn right around and play on your ego telling you people (sum of all parts) are intelligent. It won’t tell you that you’re just a bunch of simple proteins acting on one another with electric pulses. You see how double minded this is. It uses the minimalist viewpoint when describing what brought us about and then uses the (sum of all parts) viewpoint when referring to people. If you’re going to use the minimalist viewpoint for what brought us about then use it for people as well.

Let me put it another way. Picture a large brick factory that produces small brick houses and stores the brick houses inside itself. Now picture the small brick houses inside the large brick house factory saying to themselves “We are houses but brought us about is simply multiple bricks stacked on top of each other.” Do you see how double minded that is.

It’s like a program running inside a computer that sees itself as greater than the computer that is running it saying “I am a complicated program running unlike any other program but what brought me about and allows me to run and exist is simply a configuration of metals and plastics.

It’s horribly double minded.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to think of the mill as a natural phenomena when by their own admission the mill was a "structure", made from boards and nails.

By using the terms "fields of grain", "grinding the grain" it also implies that these are out of the normal course of nature.

Personally I find it a bit disturbing that the crow could so easily convince his friend to overlook the obvious, and believe in his fanciful explainations without offering the slightest bit of evidence to back them up. I think that is where the real message of this parable is.

thats why everyone should respect another's belief. You dont have to believe them but you should respect that thats what they believe. I believe in God and the creation. I have no physical proof of God existing but the simple and basic question in my head is "Which is more probable, that an ultimate being beyond understanding created everything, maybe through natural processes, but by his/her/its will none the less or that the universe just randomly sprang up out of nowhere with unnumerable coincidences allowing for life's existence?" Things like our comsmic ray blocking atmosphere to the tiny organisms inside of our body that help with digestion..it just seems like to many coincidences working together. of course this isnt the only thing fueling my belief but i'm not writing to quote bible verses. I just wanted to try to make my belief relate-able. Sorry for wall-o-text

I'd like to clear something up here. I don't have to respect your beliefs

I am very tired of this being said as a form of political correctness.

This is what Sam Harris refers to in The End of Faith.

I don't have to respect your beliefs. I find your beliefs to be completely devoid of any rational thought, bordering on believing in fantasy. Its not any different to me than a Harry Potter fan who really believes in it.

What I do have to respect is your choice to believe as you do. And I do respect this. I can also admire this.

But the belief itself? No. I do not have to respect this any more than I have to respect the beliefs of a Holocaust denier.

I agree the story is stacked from the start. You can see it in the way the bigger crow "sneered" all the time. And how the younger crow went along with it.

Just goes to show how much believers don't understand non believers.

A non believer wants their own proof. They wouldn't have taken the older crows word for it. They would have flown around themselves looking for solid proof.

Its the believers who take the elders "word for it" not the non believers.

true that, er truethat....

I agree with that staement. Believers see 'miracles of faith" from their perspectives and teachings, and wonder why others don't see the "obvious".

This "parable" like others from the same author, convey a heavy handed "moral superiority", in that the bigger crow constantly demeans the beliefs of his elders.

Most believers, from my experience, are followers of anothers vision, who then conform the facts to fit their belief system.

A non-believer (In the belivers system, that is), looks for their own confirmation of the belief. Or, finds an alternate belief path that fits their own perceptions and perspective.

Just out of curiosity though, I wonder what it is that verax-acis means when he/she uses the word 'non-believer'?

This "parable" like others from the same author, convey a heavy handed "moral superiority", in that the bigger crow constantly demeans the beliefs of his elders.

This sorta reminds me of the differances we have in believing native cultures and then supressing them.
It's like "Oh don't worry your people will enjoy our modern way of life, because we don't belive in upholding the past like you natives do we believe in progress."
Progress towards what?

We take away the past and pave over it and base our hold world not on what we are told by our ancestors threw spirituality but what we form by oursleves for our own reasons threw science.




It’s like a program running inside a computer that sees itself as greater than the computer that is running it saying “I am a complicated program running unlike any other program but what brought me about and allows me to run and exist is simply a configuration of metals and plastics.


awesome stuff verax-acis

I think this fits in good with my interpretation of science. where all we count on is the measurements or calculations, all the little variables, when in fact they are just part of the bigger picture, we have convinced ouselves that we are superior on a unconcious level and by doing so causes us to question that which our elders told us, my elders have told me about the dreamtime and i believe it, not because of the physical evidance but because the bent of my ancestors nature, they have no reason to lie only to respect and uphold all that was created in the dreaming.
We look back at our myths and laugh, i think that is the saddest sight. because we can no longer look to the past and gain wisdom but are trapped in a present with which its foundations have nothing to support it on but our ignorance.

I agree not only is it stacked, if this is supposed to be an analogy of modern belief systems it seems to be skewed by 180°.

Usually it is the elders who base the myth on fanciful tales, and there is no physical evidence for the younger crows to examine. That's why it's hard for a lot non-believers to rationalize the belief system.

Thanks…It’s good to see some people get it.