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Jalorm
This post is the conclusion of my last post on why people regard homosexuality as wrong.

For the religous person, the most popular reason for homosexuality being looked down upon was because the bible claimed that the act is a sin. Because the word sin is so ambiguous, I am adding Wikipedia's definition below.

QUOTE
Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral code of conduct or the state of having committed such a violation. In monotheistic religions, the code of conduct is determined by God. Colloquially, any thought, word, or act considered immoral, shameful, harmful, or alienative might be termed "sinful".


A few of the other posts that may have been based from view points outside of religion claimed that homosexuality was a threat to the human race in terms of halting reproduction to the point of extinction.

Now I will take a moment to analyze the religous mindset that homosexuality is indeed a sin. Most christians accept that Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses, removing the need for animal sacrifices, an eye for an eye, and all of the other harsh laws of moral conduct that had existed until his time of teaching. Most biblical scholars will explain the mosaic law as the lower law, a law that was neccesary to prepare the Jews for the higher spiritual law that Jesus would teach. In essence, sin was redefined when Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses.

Outside of the religous view that homosexuality is wrong because it is a sin, what exactly is homosexuality? It is engaging in sexual conduct with the same sex, and to a further extent, having a long term relationship comparable to mariage.

Is pleasure evil?

Widipedia definition of evil:

QUOTE
In religion and ethics, Evil refers to the "bad" aspects of the behaviour and reasoning of human beings —those which are deliberately void of conscience, and show a wanton penchant for destruction.


So pleasure is not evil so long as it does not rob a person of their conscience.

Wikipedia definition of pleasure:

QUOTE
Pleasure is a positive sensation, which by analogy to pain, can be physiologically described as either peripheral or central (euphoria). It is commonly conceptualized as somehow opposed to pain, though it has received much less scientific attention.


What do we call a person that causes another person pain? Evil, sadistic, callous, and macabre are a few names that come to mind. Per wikipedia, pleasure is considered the opposite of pain. So in essence, someone that indulges in pleasure with another person is representing all that is good.

How would you define a person that believed in surpressing the feeling of pleasure, and beleived that they needed others to follow their lead in surpressing pleasure? I would regard the chance for pleasure being stolen away as an act of pain. What kind of people like to cause pain? Evil, sadistc, callous, and macabre people.

Rather than attack religions as inconsistant and hypocrytical, I am going to suggest a revision of what they consider sin. It has been done twice that we know of in the bible. Once when Moses defined it, and again when Jesus redefined it. It is not something that cannot be done. In the end, it would be a healing measure that would unite people in new understanding and acceptance.

For those that would argue that redefining sin would open pandora's box to allowing any kind of immoral act to be committed, I will reply in advance. Human's have the ability for intelligent thought. We know the difference between right and wrong. The reason homosexuality is such a heated subject is because so many people realize that repressing it is wrong. The reason you do not see a large crowd of people advocating pedophilia or animal sex is because people know that these things are wrong. People do not know that homosexuality is wrong; the only argument that they have against it is that their bible has said it is sin.

I won't bother explaining that homosexuality is not ever going to be a threat to breeding ourselves out of existance. Plenty of man made folly will send the human race into impotence long before homosexuality would ever even remotely come close to bringing about the end of our race.
brave_new_world
Nothing wrong with homosexuality. It is very natural. If not then are these animals who have been proven to have been to have sexual relationships not natural? Has evolution or god gone wrong with these animals.

African Buffalo
African Elephant
Agile Wallaby
Amazon River Dolphin (Boto)
American Bison
Aperea
Asian Elephant
Asiatic Mouflon
Atlantic Spotted Dolphin
Australian Sea Lion
Barasingha
Barbary Sheep
Beluga
Bharal
Bighorn Sheep
Black Bear
Blackbuck
Black-footed Rock Wallaby
Black-tailed Deer
Bonnet Macaque
Bonobo
Bottlenose Dolphin
Bowhead Whale
Bridled Dolphin
Brown Bear
Brown Capuchin
Brown Long-eared Bat
Brown Rat
Caribou
Cat (domestic)
Cattle (domestic)
Cheetah
Collared Peccary
Commerson's Dolphin
Common Brushtail Possum
Common Chimpanzee
Common Dolphin
Common Marmoset
Common Pipistrelle
Common Raccoon
Common Tree Shrew
Cotton-top Tamarin
Crab-eating Macaque
Crested Black Macaque
Cui
Dall's Sheep
Daubenton's Bat
Dog (domestic)
Doria's Tree Kangaroo
Dugong
Dwarf Cavy
Dwarf Mongoose
Eastern Cottontail Rabbit
Eastern Gray Kangaroo
Elk
Euro (a subspecies of wallaroo)
European Bison
Fallow Deer
False Killer Whale
Fat-tailed Dunnart
Fin Whale
Fox
Gelada Baboon
Giraffe
Goat (Domestic)
Golden Monkey
Gorilla
Grant's Gazelle
Gray-headed Flying Fox
Gray Seal
Gray Squirrel
Gray Whale
Gray Wolf
Grizzly Bear
Guinea Pig (Domestic)
Hamadryas Baboon
Hamster (Domestic)
Hanuman Langur
Harbor Porpoise
Harbor Seal
Himalayan Tahr
Hoary Marmot
Horse (domestic)
Human
Indian Fruit Bat
Indian Muntjac
Indian Rhinoceros
Japanese Macaque
Javelina
Kangaroo Rat
Killer Whale
Koala
Kob
Larga Seal
Least Chipmunk
Lechwe
Lesser Bushbaby
Lion
Lion-tailed Macaque
Lion Tamarin
Little Brown Bat
Livingstone's Fruit Bat
Long-eared Hedgehog
Long-footed Tree Shrew
Markhor
Marten
Matschie's Tree Kangaroo
Mohol Galago
Moor Macaque
Moose
Mountain Goat
Mountain Tree Shrew
Mountain Zebra
Mouse (domestic)
Moustached Tamarin
Mule Deer
Musk-ox
Natterer's Bat
New Zealand Sea Lion
Nilgiri Langur
Noctule
North American Porcupine
Northern Elephant Seal
Northern Fur Seal
Northern Quoll
Olympic Marmot
Orangutan
Orca
Pacific Striped Dolphin
Patas Monkey
Pere David's Deer
Pig (Domestic)
Pig-tailed Macaque
Plains Zebra
Polar Bear
Pretty-faced Wallaby
Proboscis Monkey
Pronghorn
Przewalski's Horse
Puku
Quokka
Rabbit
Raccoon Dog
Red Deer
Red Fox
Red Kangaroo
Red-necked Wallaby
Red Squirrel
Reeves's Muntjac
Reindeer
Rhesus Macaque
Right Whale
Rock Cavy
Rodrigues Fruit Bat
Roe Deer
Rufous Bettong
Rufous-naped Tamarin
Rufous Rat Kangaroo
Saddle-back Tamarin
Savanna Baboon
Sea Otter
Serotine Bat
Sheep (Domestic)
Siamang
Sika Deer
Slender Tree Shrew
Sooty Mangabey
Sperm Whale
Spinifex Hopping Mouse
Spinner Dolphin
Spotted Hyena
Spotted Seal
Squirrel Monkey
Striped Dolphin
Stuart's Marsupial Mouse
Stumptail Macaque
Swamp Deer
Swamp Wallaby
Takhi
Talapoin
Tammar Wallaby
Tasmanian Devil
Tasmanian Rat Kangaroo
Thinhorn Sheep
Thomson's Gazelle
Tiger
Tonkean Macaque
Tucuxi
Urial
Vampire Bat
Verreaux's Sifaka
Vervet
Vicuna
Walrus
Wapiti
Warthog
Waterbuck
Water Buffalo
Weeper Capuchin
Western Gray Kangaroo
West Indian Manatee
Whiptail Wallaby
White-faced Capuchin
White-fronted Capuchin
White-handed Gibbon
White-lipped Peccary
White-tailed Deer
Wild Cavy
Wild Goat
Wisent
Yello-footed Rock Wallaby
Yellow-toothed Cavy

[edit] Birds
Acorn Woodpecker
Adelie Penguin
Anna's Hummingbird
Australian Shelduck
Aztec Parakeet
Bangalese Finch (Domestic)
Bank Swallow
Barn Owl
Bicolored Antbird
Black-billed Magpie
Black-crowned Night Heron
Black-headed Gull
Black-rumped Flameback
Black Stilt
Black Swan
Black-winged Stilt
Blue-backed Manakin
Blue-bellied Roller
Blue Tit
Blue-winged Teal
Brown-headed Cowbird
Budgerigar (Domestic)
Buff-breasted Sandpiper
Calfbird
California Gull
Canada Goose
Canary-winged Parakeet
Caspian Tern
Cattle Egret
Chaffinch
Chicken (Domestic)
Chiloe Wigeon
Cliff Swallow
Common Gull
Common Murre
Common Shelduck
Crane spp.
Dusky Moorhen
Eastern Bluebird
Egyptian Goose
Elegant Parrot
Emu
European Jay
European Shag
Flamingo
Galah
Gentoo Penguin
Golden Bishop Bird
Golden Plover
Gray-breasted Jay
Gray-capped Social Weaver
Gray Heron
Grayling
Great Cormorant
Greater Bird of Paradise
Greater Rhea
Green Sandpiper
Greenshank
Greylag Goose
Griffon Vulture
Guianan c***-of-the-Rock
Guillemot
Herring Gull
Hoary-headed Grebe
Hooded Warbler
House Sparrow
Humboldt Penguin
Ivory Gull
Jackdaw
Kestrel
King Penguin
Kittiwake
Laughing Gull
Laysan Albatross
Least Darter
Lesser Flamingo
Lesser Scaup Duck
Little Blue Heron
Little Egret
Long-tailed Hermit Hummingbird
Mallard
Masked Lovebird
Mealy Amazon Parrot
Mew Gull
Mexican Jay
Musk Duck
Mute Swan
Ocellated Antbird
Ocher-bellied Flycatcher
Orange Bishop Bird
Orange-footed Parakeet
Ornate Lorikeet
Ostrich
Oystercatcher
Peach-faced Lovebird
Pied Flycatcher
Pied Kingfisher
Pigeon (Domestic)
Powerful Owl
Purple Swamphen
Raggiana's Bird of Paradise
Raven
Razorbill
Red-backed Shrike
Red Bishop Bird
Red-faced Lovebird
Redshank
Red-shouldered Widowbird
Regent Bowerbird
Ring-billed Gull
Ring Dove
Rock Dove
Roseate Cockatoo
Roseate Tern
Rose-ringed Parakeet
Ruff
Ruffed Grouse
Sage Grouse
San Blas Jay
Sand Martin
Satin Bowerbird
Scarlet Ibis
Scottish Crossbill
Senegal Parrot
Sharp-tailed Sparrow
Silver Gull
Silvery Grebe
Snow Goose
Steller's Sea Eagle
Superb Lyrebird
Swallow-tailed Manakin
Tasmanian Native Hen
Tree Swallow
Trumpeter Swan
Turkey (Domestic)
Victoria's Riflebird
Wattled Starling
Western Gull
White-fronted Amazon Parrot
White Stork
Wood Duck
Yellow-backed (Chattering) Lorikeet
Yellow-rumped Cacique
Zebra Finch (Domestic)

[edit] Fish
Amazon molly
Blackstripe Topminnow
Bluegill Sunfish
Char
European Bitterling
Green swordtail
Guiana leaffish
Hammerhead
Houting Whitefish
Jewel Fish
Mouthbreeding Fish sp.
Salmon spp.
Southern platyfish
Ten-spined stickleback
Three-spined stickleback

[edit] Other vertebrates
Anole sp.
Appalachian Woodland Salamander
Black-spotted Frog
Broad-headed Skink
Checkered Whiptail Lizard
Chihuahuan Spotted Whiptail Lizard
Common Ameiva
Common Garter Snake
Cuban Green Anole
Desert Grassland Whiptail Lizard
Desert Tortoise
Fence Lizard
Five-lined Skink
Gopher (Pine) Snake
Green Anole
Inagua Curlytail Lizard
Jamaican Giant Anole
Laredo Striped Whiptail Lizard
Largehead Anole
Mountain Dusky Salamander
Mourning Gecko
Plateau Striped Whiptail Lizard
Red Diamond Rattlesnake
Red-tailed Skink
Side-blotched Lizard
Speckled Rattlesnake
Tengger Desert Toad
Water Moccasin
Western Rattlesnake
Western Banded Gecko
Whiptail Lizard spp.
Wood Turtle

[edit] Insects and other invertebrates
Acanthocephalan Worms
Alfalfa Weevil
Australian Parasitic Wasp sp.
Bean Weevil sp.
Bedbug and other Bug spp.
Blister Beetle spp.
Blowfly
Box Crab
Broadwinged Damselfly sp.
Cabbage (Small) White
Checkerspot Butterfly
Clubtail Dragonfly spp.
Cockroach spp.
Common Skimmer Dragonfly spp.
Creeping Water Bug sp.
Digger Bee
Dragonfly spp.
Eastern Giant Ichneumon
Eucalyptus Longhorned Borer
Field Cricket sp.
Fruit Fly spp.
Glasswing Butterfly
Grape Berry Moth
Grape Borer
Green Lacewing
Harvest Spider sp.
Hawaiian Orb-Weaver
Hen Flea
House Fly
Ichneumon Wasp sp.
Incirrate Octopus spp.
Japanese Scarab Beetle
Jumping Spider sp.
Larch Bud Moth
Large Milkweed Bug
Large White
Long-legged Fly spp.
Mazarine Blue
Mediterranean Fruit Fly
Mexican White
Midge sp.
Migratory Locust
Mite sp.
Monarch Butterfly
Narrow-winged Damselfly spp.
Parsnip Leaf Miner
Pomace Fly
Prea
Queen Butterfly
Red Ant sp.
Red Flour Beetle
Reindeer Warble Fly
Rosechafer
Rove Beetle spp.
Scarab Beetle, Melolonthine
Screwworm Fly
Silkworm Moth
Sociable Weaver
Southeastern Blueberry Bee
Southern Green Stink Bug
Southern Masked Chafer
Southern One-Year Canegrub
Spreadwinged Damselfly spp.
Spruce Budworm Moth
Stable Fly sp.
Stag Beetle spp.
Tsetse Fly
Water Boatman Bug
Water Strider spp.


Any thoughts???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anima...sexual_behavior

Anyone who thinks there is something wrong with homosexuality are anti-religious or anti spiritual. A prejudice against homosexuality is a prejudice agaisnt God.

ramster83
Brave New World that list does nothing to support homosexuality being natural. My opinion on homosexuality doesnt stem from religion at all, it is my own personal opinion. Entirely.
I dont believe homosexuality is a natural thing at all. I dont think it makes a person bad or evil and heck i dont even know if they have a "choice" in the matter. Yet my stance on the subject is that if people were meant to be gay we would all be gay, we would be able to pro-create being gay. 2 Males cant have sex and bare a child...Infact...2 males can have sex and contract AIDS...One of the world worst incurable diseases...natural? I dont think so. I dont care if everyone isnt gay, that doesnt make it natural to be gay. The homosexual community want me to accept their acts and ways as being natural...My response would be to try and take humanity further....Continue our existance....You think they could? Of course not. One generation of humans would live for - no more. Homosexuals have rights of course and could be great people but please...Dont shove it in my face that its natural. Remember its called homoSEXUAL so your sex life and sexuality does come part of that tagged title...Sexually the only natural thing is a man and a woman...Look at our sexual organs...Perfectly fits like a jigsaw puzzle. A man and a woman in a hetroSEXUAL relationship is natural....A homoSEXUAL relationship between a man and man isnt natural...You cant have kids plus the men have an increased risk of contracting AIDS.

Some people are homosexual and it is a part of humanity and life - mainly because of an increasing supporting society yet being gay isnt a natural thing...Its really simple. Just because 2 male badgers just had sex doesnt mean its natural for me to be having sex with another male- what they are doing is un-natural but it happens....thats all.

Bella-Angelique
Perhaps a more correct word than abnormal would be dysfunctional.

Dysfunctional - impaired in function; especially of a bodily system or organ
# (of a trait or condition) failing to serve an adjustive purpose; "dysfunctional behavior" source

Homosexuality is the failure of the system in place that causes the desire to mate with the opposite sex.

Sterility is also an example of a dysfunctional system in place.

Pretending that everyone is all the same and a product of what nature desired them to be in every way is immature and cruel in the end. It reveals the attitude that everyone has to be the same and function equally well in all things or they are somehow less than human and not as lovable as the majority.

Everyone is not the same and some of our species need extra love, consideration, and patience because of that.
Magikman
No, we don't need another thread covering the same topic. Keep all your contributions within the original, this will cut down on redundancy and cross posting arguements.

MM
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