Rev. Robert Shuller Christain minister of ( The famous Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove CAlif.) said " that what is needed is a reformation within the church, to move away from a message of fear and guilt , retribution and damnation and toward a theology of self esteem, he says at the deepest level the church is failing horribly to generate these human beings with self esteem as a personality quality that can result in the kinds of people that can make the world a better and safe and sane society....

Dr. Schuller says the 'sincere 'christian or church person will find a theological launching point encompassing universal agreement, universal right and an uncompromising need for every person to be treated with respect just because they are a human being...

For the church to go on theology must have international, universal, transcreedal, transcultural, and trans racial standards..this is the new 'christian"



i found this to be very hopeful, and a message that some churches are moving forward.....

Makes sense. Certain churches have been doing that for quite some time already. Do you know by any chance what denomination this SHuller guy belongs to?

Christian i beleive i will find out he heads the Famed Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove.. I too like this and can as this as a wonderful step......i am aware of a few innovative christain voices saddly they get more bad press than good. though..it is nice to see you are a part of this theology PA.....

This looks like the beginnings of yet another sect, a deviation; it's curious to note - how many deviations will it take before Christianity becomes truly unrecognizable from the source?

Hey Sheri, it is happening, there are positive messages out there that happen to fall under the veil of religion. One person in particular that I've heard a few times on TV, seems to speak this way, he always talks about things concerning self motivation and living life full, and he speaks in a positive, non fearful way. His name is Joel Osteen, from the little bit I've heard him speak, he sounds more like a motivational speaker rather than a God-fearing, fire and brimstone pastor. Personally, I don't care if you are religious or not, if you make sense and have a positive message, then that's a good start for me.

Thanks. "Christian" is a very broad word though, which was why I was hoping to narrow it down. The danger in this though is that many churches who decide to focus on self esteem forget to look at other important matters of the Christian Faith, and as Arthuria commented, it can start to look nothing at all like Christianity.

To be honest PA, there are so many different forms of "christian" now, that it is difficult to distinguish one from another.

i agree i am all for redefining relgion not doing away with them, they have a few wonderful things, I see it as a much more functional genre with a few changes..... self esteem being pivitol for its growth...

It serves no one to detest self least of all society......I have known great christians in my life but they are not espousing a message of doom and low self worth they lift people up...In the early days of my hair career I was a NB and worked for a Catholic , she was a angel this lady embraced all people all paths, she was a most inspiring teacher for me , its not the path its how its used as far as I'm concerned...My ex husband has been instrumental for changing his church, he counsels couples who are getting a divorce he teaches them how to divorce in love as we did, he says he carrrys on in honor of our frendship....so i agree their are wonderful inspirational people in every path making changes....My ex always says the best way to effect change is to be a part of the group you wwant to change....

well pa i would think that jesus as the model for christianity would be most pleased with a universal brotherhood based on love a of self extending outward to all others.....its my understanding jesus was not looking to erect dogmas but to teach of love and peace...but what a novel idea religon teaching people to benefit the world through the path of self esteem i think its a wonderful idea...one can effect great benefits in this way....a happy person brings happiness to all others the same with a pesron who holds themselves in esteem they give this to all others.... If you think good of self you do the same for others ...

True, but the only real Christianity (Christ-ianity - follower of Christ) is the one described in the Bible, not the one defined in a denomination.

OK, since we are veering towards the subject anyway....

Can you tell me where in the bible, NT or OT, it says to worship Jesus? Not being offensive, just curious. I know there is a passage where J says (paraphrase) "No one gets to the father, but through me", but does that imply he wants to be worshiped, or is it that he is acting as a role model?

i.e. : No one gets to the father, but through me = Do as I do and you will attain heaven

The Crystal Cathedral is part of the Reformed Church in America.

LINK

I think the majority of us worship God as a whole, unified triune being not one part of Him in particular.

a fine example of seeing the deeper principle in the model of jesus..if anything I would like to see christianity actaully institute the jesus message instead of worship it form afar....

Robert Shuller is a pompous ass. He is a money hungry SOB. The same guy that punched out a Flight Attendant for 'mishandling' his robe. The guy is a loser.

Sheri,

You know I l you...but I find it hard to believe that you would embrace this guy. He is no different than anyone else preaching on TV....it isn't about self-esteem with this jerk...it is about how much money he can con out of the masses!

Well as always joc thanks for your vote of confidence I was touched by his messgae of universality,, i feel its a beautiful message of unity the man I know little about truthfully....Joc you know I find relgion vile and hope for a redefining and feel its not fucntional in its current form...not to worry i am still looking to create peace....

You can read about his 'problem' on the airline here.

I believe someone mentioned Joel Olsteen....one guy I personally like and admire. He may have the largest church in the world...but he isn't all about money. He truly has an uplifting message. You might check him out...but beware any other personality on TV spreading the ...uh...gospel?...

joc thanks for the heads up my friend... never hurts to collect the data....i'll be sure to check this joel out if my arty and my joc are recommending him i have to check him out....i like to make sure the 'preachers are honorable LOL....Just kidding...

That sounds about right...seems to be all about the money....guess what...thats how it has nearly always been and always will be.

If this world survives another 10,000 years...I would lay money that there will be a bigger religion than christianity alltogether...and will still be all about money

I've said it before and I will state it here: the only people following the same religion as Jesus did are the extreme Orthodox Jews. Jesus taught absolute fulfillment of the Law. I dare any Christians here, to try the following exercise: Read all four of the Gospels, ignoring every single word that is not a direct quote from Jesus. You will be absolutely amazed at the results.

gid, how can there be a direct quote from jesus?

Jesus didn't write anything. It has been my understanding his direct followers (witnesses) didn't write anything either (being a doomsday cult there was not much need to record things).

ha ha ha hahaah, you do have a point . gosh i was reading the autobiography of Steven Hawkings( the physicist with that disease i forget which one now, maybe hodgkins???)not to long ago and his wife at the time was asked why would you marry a man that has no life expectancy, she said well in those days we had little to hope for, the era of gloom and doom so to marry Steven seemed natural.......lol...Also Those that wrote of jesus didn't even know him they were going on hearsay, i have aslways said the jesus stuff should be taken with a grain of salt and the bible may be the least reliable way to get to this guy.....

If I live in a Crystal Cathedral (Glass house) I would not throw stones either.

Do you know the reason its called a cathedral ????

No, but I would bet that Jesus would cast the first stone through his door.

sheri,

what is the difference between the myth and the man?

this applies not just to "jesus", but all the legends of the past.

stories are embellished. the imperfections brushed aside. people focus on what they want, thus amplifying certian traits and degrading others.

If anything, we could say that the creators of christianity were the good at creating a public persona, a myth, regardless of what (or if) the man was.

So we tread lightly on our heros, wanting them to be larger than life.

Is there that much differnence between a Jesusite, a Trudeauite, and a Kennedyite? Do I dare add in all those villanized by the west at the risk of being attacked? Hitler was to the hitlerites as Jesus was to the jesusites. The message is we need to look at the message and stop idolizing the messengers.

In the dark ages when christianity took hold full blown they built cathedrals the one that was built the tallest was said to be closer to god thus he could hear their prayers over the shorter less opulent churches... ...my son told me this.....

i would agree Irish jesus would of probably thrown the first stone at any church...

I think that is what the contractor said when he built the tower of Babel.

The Church is a spiritual body, not a man-made organization (1 Peter 2:5). No city or organization is the mandated place of worship (John 4:20-24).

I think you are right

Irish

let me clarify during feudalism the middle ages..It was the christians who felt they needed the 'Cathedrals since a litlle church as you are correct in pointing out is a place to commune with each other.... wasn't good enough for 'god' it is interesting to note that today the vatican is considered to be the finest Cathedral and the Catholics do fancy themselves to be the chosen ones...

I have seen some of the finest Cathedrals in the world and have been awestruck at the magnificent architecture and fine workmanship. But not once did I feel closer to God within their walls.
Spiritually I feel they are a distraction.
Irish

Interesting, irish.....and very honest...

I like God Cathedrals; the mountains, rivers, beaches, Kelly’s bar and grill and the like.

ha ha ha hahahah good one irish LOL

Good, then the planet can finally start to clean them up.