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Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Metaphysics, Psychology & Psychic Phenomena
MySummerJob
okay well, it just started this year, i've been noticing at random times i feel like i know whats going to be said or possibly done, like for example this one time confirmation (church) my pastor was talking about this activity they were doing, and they were talking about what they were going to ear for dinner during for it and i knew what it was she was going to suggest, before she even said it. another example is we did this guessing game with a number and i got it right on.

((also side note i am a freshman in high school))
Otacon
I'd say your just good at guessing. Those two examples don't really merit much skill, but then again, that is just my opinion.....
Jjbreen
QUOTE(SSJ2VEGETA @ Nov 30 2006, 07:45 PM) [snapback]1445471[/snapback]

okay well, it just started this year, i've been noticing at random times i feel like i know whats going to be said or possibly done, like for example this one time confirmation (church) my pastor was talking about this activity they were doing, and they were talking about what they were going to ear for dinner during for it and i knew what it was she was going to suggest, before she even said it. another example is we did this guessing game with a number and i got it right on.

((also side note i am a freshman in high school))


I Know certain friends that I go out with - what they will usually get - because of knowing them. So that is just familiarity.

As for numbers, depending on the game, skill in proccessing the probabilities.

Example: I was at a b'day party of friend. I won ALL the door prizes. People actually thought I was psychic. But what happened, which is usually what I do - people go "one way" - I'll go the other direction. That time it worked and I easily raked in all the goodies. But it could of easily backfired as well. But everyone thought for sure I was psychic. w00t.gif

Jj -
Eu_citzen
I'd say it's hard to determain. It can be both, decide yourself and you'll get the answer you want.
The Raven
QUOTE(SSJ2VEGETA @ Nov 30 2006, 10:45 PM) [snapback]1445471[/snapback]

okay well, it just started this year, i've been noticing at random times i feel like i know whats going to be said or possibly done, like for example this one time confirmation (church) my pastor was talking about this activity they were doing, and they were talking about what they were going to ear for dinner during for it and i knew what it was she was going to suggest, before she even said it. another example is we did this guessing game with a number and i got it right on.

((also side note i am a freshman in high school))


This is often what makes most psychics realize their power and potential. This is strong proof that you have the gift and it is beginning to awaken, but you must learn to use it for the good of humanity. Check internet sites and look up "psionics" on Google, it's where most people start. Have fun with your new power, but you MUST use it for good! (Darn you're lucky, I have tried for three years and not gotten results like this!) cat.gif
ssjtin
There's no such thing as psychic powers so you got lucky on those occasions.
Matches
Goodly Raven, why did you not refer our budding psychic directly to me?

Actually, in all seriousness, I believe that you might want to have more examples of psychic phenomenon, dear. If you keep having instances where you predict events and numbers perfectly without much margin for error. If you only get one out of five tests wrong consistently and keep predicting events correctly, you may very well be psychic. From there I say congratulations, but beware that it can be a pain in the bum. In example, I have frequent feelings of deja vú in which I am disoriented afterwards to a point of interrupting my activities. Take whatever you find with a grain of salt, and for all our sakes, please don't go on talk shows in the near future, proclaiming power. We have far too many psychics already.

Much love,

-Morian
3rd rock resident alien
Looks like you can read peoples mind.
brave_new_world
QUOTE(ssjtin @ Dec 2 2006, 01:38 PM) [snapback]1446929[/snapback]

There's no such thing as psychic powers so you got lucky on those occasions.


IS THAT SO SSJTIN??! HAHAHAHAHAHA FOOL!! READ AND WEEP BUDDY!


It is amazing the passionate skepticism scientists show to all these possibilities. It is just the same as being religiously indoctrinated.
The fact that Newtonian science or classical physics relies on empty space being empty and atoms being solid to validate their model and yet atoms are anything but solid and empty space is anything but empty(dark matter).
People want scientific validation on psychic powers right?? And proof of other potentials of reality shamans and mystics believed in thousands of years ago that quantum physics is tapping into anyway, right??? Ok then I will take me a while but I'll write some pieces of information from a scientific book called "The holographic universe which will hopefully give some people here some info of the crazy world scientists and religious leaders want to make boring with their packaged concepts. Michael Talbot(God Allah bless) is a quantum physicist. So at least the book was written by someone scientific.

Miracles happen, not in opposition to Nature, but in opposition to what we know of Nature.----St. Augustine(christian mystic)

In one series of experiments Jahn and his associate, clinical psychologist Brenda Dunne, employed a device called a random event generator, or REG. By relyingon an unpredictable natural process such as radioactive decay, a REG is able to produce a string like this: 1,2,1,2,2,1,1,2,1,1,1,2,1. In other words, a REG is a kind of automatic coinflipper capable of producing an enormous number of coin flips in a very short time. As everyone knows, if you flip a perfectly weighted coin 1,000 times, the odds are you will get a 50/50 split between heads and tails. In reality, out of any 1,000 such flips, the split may vary a little in one direction or the other, but the greater the number of flips, the closer to 50/50 the split will become.

What Jahn and Dunne did was have volunteers sit in front of the REG and concentrate on having it produce an abnormally large numer of either headsor tails. Over the course of literally hundreds of thousands of trials they discovered that, through concentration alone, the volunteers did indeed have a small but statistically significant effect on the REG's output. They discovered two other things as well. The ability to produce PK effects was not limited to a few gifted individuals but was present in the majority of volunteers they tested. This suggests that most of us possess some degree of PK. They also discovered that different volunteers produced different and consistently distinctive results, results that were so idiosyncratic that Jahn and Dunne started calling them "signitures." Page 123


OK, IM SORRY I CANT BE BOTHERED ANY MORE ON THIS EXAMPLE OR ON OTHER ONES TAKEN IN LABS, TOO MUCH TO WRITE. IM PUTTING ALL MY ENERGY INTO THIS BIG ONE. AN AWESOME READ. IF YOU CAN'T BELIEVE IN THE POSSIBILITY OF THE AFORE-MENTIONED ONE THEN DONT BOTHER WITH THE NEXT ONE IM ABOUT TO WRITE(AND FINISH BY THE TIME YOUS ARE READING IT).

mass psychokinesis in eighteenth-century franceAWESOME READ THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!


Such incidents notwithstanding, one of the most astounding manifestations of psychokinesis, and one of the most remarkable displays of miraculous events ever recorded, took place in Paris in the first half of the eighteenth century. The events centered around a puritanical sect of Dutch-influenced Catholics known as the Jansenists, and were precipitated by the death of a saintly and revered Jansenist deacon named Francois de Paris. Although few people living today have even heard of the Jansenist miracles, they were one of the most talked about events in Europe for the better part of a century.

To understand fully the Jansenist miracles, it is necessary to know a little about the historical events that preceded Francois de Paris's death. Jansenism was founded in the early seventeenth century, and from the start it was at odds with both the Roman Catholic Church and French monarchy. Many of the beliefs diverged sharply with standard chrch doctrine but it was a popular movement and quickly gained followers among the French populace. Most damning of all, it was viewed by both papacy and King Louis XV, a devout Catholic, as Protestantism only masquerading as Catholicism. As a result, both the chruch and the king were constantly maneuvering to undermine the movement's power. One obstacle to these manueverings, and one of the factors that contributed to the movement's popularity, was that Jansenist leaders seemed especiallyskilled at performing miraculous healings. Nonetheless, the church and the monarchy persevered, causing fierce debates to rage throughout France. It was on May 1,1727, at the height of this power struggle, that Francois de Paris deid and was interred in the parish cemetery of Saint-Medard, Paris.

Because of the abbe's saintly reputation, worshipers began to gather at his tomb, and from the beginning a host of miraculous healings were reported. The ailments thus cured included cancerous tumors, paralysis, deafness, arthritis, rheumatism, ulcerous sores, persistent fevers, prolonged hemorrhaging, and blindness. But this was not all. The mourners also started to experience strange involuntary spasms or convulsions and to undergo the most amazing contortions of thier limbs. These seizures quickly proved contagious, spreading like a brush fire until the streets were packed with men, women, and children, all twisting and writhing as if caught up in a surreal enchantment.

It was while they were in this fitful and trancelike state that the "convulsionaires," as they have come to be called, displayed the most phenomenal of their talents. One was the ability to endure without harm an almost unimaginable variety of physical tortures. These included severe beatings, blows from both heavy and sharp objects, and strangulation---all with no sign of injury, or even the slightest trace of wounds or bruises.

What makes these miraculous events so unique is that they were witnessed by literally thousands of observers. The frenzied gatherings around Abbe Paris's tomb were by no means short-lived. The cemetery and the streets surrounding it were crowded day and night for years, and even two decades later miracles were stills being reported(to give some idea of the enormity of the phenomena, in 1733 it was noted in the public records that over 3,000 volunteers were needed simply to assist the convulsionaires and make sure, for example, that the female participants did not become immodestly exposed during their seizsures).

As a result, the supernomral abilities of the convulsionaries became an international cause celebre, and thousands flocked to see them, including individuals from all social strata and officials from every educational, religious, and governmental institution imaginable; numerous accounts, both official and unofficial , of the miracles witnessed are recorded in the documents of the time. Moreover, many of the witnesses, such as the investigators from the Roman Catholic Church , had a vested interest in refuting the Jansenist miracles, but they still went away confirming them( the Roman Catholic Church later remedied this embarrassing state of affairs by conceding that the miracles existed but were the work of the devil, hence proving that the Jansenists were depraved).

One investigator, a member of the Paris Parliament named Louis- Basile Carre de Montgeron, witnesses enough miracles to fill four four thick volumes on the subject, which he published in 1737 under the title La Verite des Miracles. In the work he provides numerous examples of the convulsionaire's apparent invulnerability to torture. In one instance a twenty-year-old convulsionarie named Jeanne Maulet leaned against a stone wall while a volunteer from the crowd, "a very strong man," delivered one hundred blows to her stomach with a thirty-pound hammer(the convulsionaires themselves asked to be tortured because they said it relieved the excrutiating pain of the convulsions). To test the force of the blows, Montgeron himself then took the hammer and tried it on the stone wall against which the girl had leaned. HE wrote, "At the twenty-fifth blow the stone upon which I struck, which had been shaken by the preceding efforts, suddenly became loose and fell on the other side of the wall, making an aperture more than half a foot in size."

Montgeron describes another instance in which a convulsionaire bent back into an arc so that her lower back was supported by "the sharp point of a peg." She then asked that a fifty-pound stone attached to a rope be hoisted to "an extreme height" and allowed to fall with all its weight on her stomach. The stone was hoisted up and allowed to fall with all its weight again and again, but the woman seemed completely unaffected by it. She effortlessly maintained her awkward position, suffered no pain or harm, and walked away from the ordeal without even so much as a mark on the flesh of her back. Montgeron noted that while the ordeal was in progress she kept crying out, "Strike harder, harder!"


In fact, it appears that othing could harm the convulsionaires. They could not be hurt by the blows of metal rods, chains, or timbers. The strongest men could not choke them. Some were crufcified and afterward showed no trace of wounds. Most mind boggling of all, they could not even be cut or punctured with knives, swords, or hatchets! Montgeron cites an incident in which the sharpened point of an iron drill was held against the stomach of a convulsionaire and then pounded so violently with a hammer that it seemed "as if it would penetrate through the spine and rupture all the entrails." Butit didn;t, and the convulsionaire maintained an "expression of perfect rapture," crying "Oh, that does me good! Courage, brother;strike twice as hard, if you can!"

Invulnerability was not the only talent the Jansenists displayed during their seizures. Some became clairvoyant and were able to "discern hidden things. Others could read even when their eyes were closed and tightly bandaged, and instances of lveitation were reported. One of the levitators, an abbe named Bescherand from Montpellier, was so "forcibly lifted into the air" during his convulsion that even when the witnesses tried to hold him down they could not succeed in keeping him from rising off the ground.

Although we have all but forgotten about the Jansenist miracles today, they were far from ignored by the intelligtsia of the time. The niece of the mathematician and philosopher Pascal succeeded in having a severe ulcer in her eye vanish within hours as a result of a Jansenist miracle. When King Louis XV tried unsuccessfully to stop the convulsionaires by closing the cemetery of saint-Medard, Voltaire quipped, "God was forbidden, by order of the King, to work any miracles there." And in his Pilosophical Essays the Scottish philosopher David Hume wrote, "There surely never was so great a number f miracles ascribed to one person as those which were lately said to have been wrought in France upon the tomb of Abbe Paris. Many of the miracles were immediately proved upon the spot, before judges of unquestioned credit and distinction, in a learned age, and on the most eminent theatre that is now in the world."

How are we to explain the miracles produced by the convulsionaires?? Although Bohm is willing to consider the possibility of PK and other paranormal phenomena, he prefers not to speculate about specific events such as the supernormal abilities of the Jansenists. But once again, if we take the testimony of so many witnesses seriously, unless we are willing to concede that God favoured the Jansenist Catholics over the Roman, PK seems the likely explanation.

That some kind of psychic fucntioning was involved is strongly suggested by the appearance of other psychic abilities, such as clairvoyance, during the seizures. In addition, we have already looked at a number of examples where intense faith and hysteria have triggered the deeper forces of the mind, and thesetoo were present in ample portions. In fact, instead of being produced by one individual, the psychokinetic effects may have been created by the combined fervor and belief of all those present, and this might account for the unusual vigor of the manifestations. This idea is not new. In the 1920s the great Harvard psycologist William McDougall also suggested that religious miracles might be the result of the collective psychic powers of large numbers of worshipers.

PK would explain many of the convulsionaire's seeming invulnerabilities. In the case of Jeanne Maulet it could be argued that she unconsciously used PK to block the effect of the hammer blows. If the chains, timbers, and knives, and stop them in their tracks at the prcise moment of impact, it would also explain why these objects left no marks or bruises. Similarly, when individuals tried to strangle the Jansensists, perhaps their hands were held in place by PK and although they thought they were squeezing flesh, they were really only flexing in the nothingness.pAGES 128-132



ANY THOUGHTS??? ANY SKEPTICS TO THAT??
MySummerJob
QUOTE(Morian @ Dec 2 2006, 05:45 AM) [snapback]1446936[/snapback]

Goodly Raven, why did you not refer our budding psychic directly to me?

Actually, in all seriousness, I believe that you might want to have more examples of psychic phenomenon, dear. If you keep having instances where you predict events and numbers perfectly without much margin for error. If you only get one out of five tests wrong consistently and keep predicting events correctly, you may very well be psychic. From there I say congratulations, but beware that it can be a pain in the bum. In example, I have frequent feelings of deja vú in which I am disoriented afterwards to a point of interrupting my activities. Take whatever you find with a grain of salt, and for all our sakes, please don't go on talk shows in the near future, proclaiming power. We have far too many psychics already.

Much love,

-Morian

well this part i left out in my post....
i was outside or something, and well i came back inside the house and decided to watch tv and well they had this count down or something on tv like the top ten, and well the number 2 popped into my head, so i said it, and then suddenly the tv announced that number.

also another one i didn't remember till know. one of my friends were telling a story about his cooking class, and well i was joking around i said a thing he was going to say next, and also lately i've been noticing i had alot of deja vú around these teen years, i know i had some in the past but alot more now i think.
rob lester
I strongly 100% feel Psychic abilities DO NOT EXIST....There is still 1 million Dollars waiting for someone to prove it in a controled test , still no takers.I wonder why?...No psychics warning of terrorist attacks to help save lives , or sunami's , or hurricanes , etc...No psychics going to Vegas and scooping up a huge amount of dough to help feed the hungry ( use this gift for good ) .... No psychics finding lost or kidnapped children ( not 1 confirmed reported case )...Remember the sniper in Washington D.C.?I actually called that famous psychic who is allways on Montel and talked with one of her workers.I asked point blank " where and who is this sniper?..Ask Sylvia to please call anonimously to give a tip so we can stop him"...It was a fricken joke the responses I recieved.

If you watch Criss Angel , he can pull off amazing "psychic" abilities , but he admits that he is a "illusionist"....

I have yet to see or have a psychic tell me my name or birthdate , or reason I am asking them ( trust me a tried )...

To much data against it , none for it...

You may have had what we all have , " dejavue"
The Raven
Not to disagree or agree with you for that matter, Rob Lester, but if I was a "psychic" and had these magnificent powers, I would not make them evident nor tell nearly anyone. The only thing you would ever gain -- or in this case lose -- by revealing these abilities to the masses in a method that created undeniable proof, would be self-incrimination. Look at the stars in Hollywood -- would you want fame like that? Would you want to be glorified and then demonized by society in poisonous succession? Now I am not going to say Psychics do or do not exist, but remember that there are many things people can hide. A reasonable explanation as to why people have not taken up the challenge, other than the difficulty of the experiment, is that they don't want to prove it to anyone. There are some things better left off known to yourself and yourself alone.
rob lester
Well , yes I would let it be known.I would be doing exactly what I said , I would not be working my 5-5 job.I would have a ranch somewhere and be independent.I would NOT be on Montel with false claims ,but I would be a lot better off than I am now.And if I did have these "abilities" there would less crime in my area.If that "gift" were around , I know there are people like me that would say the same thing....Use it ,and use it for good...Still have not seen that anywhere.
virusdeath0
When I started high school I started have dreams that happened the next day. Or little riddles in my dreams that fit into the next day. I have been having more dajarfoos or how ever u spell it. Every since I tried dream recall. But it may just be that I have always done this but only noticed now.
The Raven
QUOTE(rob lester @ Dec 2 2006, 06:44 PM) [snapback]1447606[/snapback]

Well , yes I would let it be known.I would be doing exactly what I said , I would not be working my 5-5 job.I would have a ranch somewhere and be independent.I would NOT be on Montel with false claims ,but I would be a lot better off than I am now.And if I did have these "abilities" there would less crime in my area.If that "gift" were around , I know there are people like me that would say the same thing....Use it ,and use it for good...Still have not seen that anywhere.


If you wish to know my post to the thread starter was extremely sarcastic. But remember, "With great power, comes great responsibility." What you are saying can lead to martyring yourself unknowingly.
brave_new_world
Magic and psychic ability have little to nothing to do with true spirituality, hence they are potentually dangerous. People want to do things for the greater good with their powers and supernormal abilities?? All well and good, but unless one can perform them from a completely spiritual perspective(enlightenment) there is always that ego attachment to them, which can be worse for spiritual liberation than someone who posses no such abilites.
If as is often the case, you are born with such gifts, then understand that those are gift swhich are to be used as a means to an end and are not in any case an end in itself. Ultimately whether this makes sense to you or not i dont know, i truly know nothing.
ssjtin
brave new world so you actually believe that a group of people thinking "lets have a lot of heads", it caused the unpredictable natural process, radioactive decay, to think "hey these guys are focussing on heads, why don't i change the way i decay so that i give more heads!!!! That is so incredibly stupid that anyone who reads into it and believes it is obviously extremely gullible and deserves to go and believe in ghosts and pixies and psychic powers and whatever else the village idiot came up with. I didn't bother reading the rest of your post but from the length it's obvious you don't have much else to do and thats probably why you want to believe these things so much to be different. Take a break from the computer and get some fresh air please, just some advice.

The Raven
Interesting opinion Brave New World, I agree. If one had these super powers, the best way to use them would be to not use them to do "good" or "bad", but rather not to use them at all in relation to the masses. Again, if I had these abilities I would use them only if needed, and for myself or maybe a lover. I would tell someone I could completely trust, and that's probably it. If people alive now follow that idea, then who knows, superman may truly exist.

Brave New World, you do know something. Remember Socrates. "I only know the fact of my own ignorance."
brave_new_world
QUOTE(ssjtin @ Dec 3 2006, 11:42 AM) [snapback]1447820[/snapback]

brave new world so you actually believe that a group of people thinking "lets have a lot of heads", it caused the unpredictable natural process, radioactive decay, to think "hey these guys are focussing on heads, why don't i change the way i decay so that i give more heads!!!! That is so incredibly stupid that anyone who reads into it and believes it is obviously extremely gullible and deserves to go and believe in ghosts and pixies and psychic powers and whatever else the village idiot came up with. I didn't bother reading the rest of your post but from the length it's obvious you don't have much else to do and thats probably why you want to believe these things so much to be different. Take a break from the computer and get some fresh air please, just some advice.



HAHAHAHA you just validated Einstien's quote "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance". You didn;t read the whole article. You are a skeptic for skepticisms sake.
And if people thought more heads and the machine complied, then that alone is evidence of mild PK at least. Ghosts and pixies?? Who are we to deny their existence??? Of the literally countless sightings of such phenomena, who are we to rule out the possibility??? You seem to be disinclinded to possibility because you find it too overwhelming and dont like the idea of a universe that extends beyond to boundaries of packaged concepts. Science is a form of religion, remember science once thought that atoms were solid, science once thought that there was nothing in empty space, science once thought that objective world existed indenpendtly of an observer....and it goes on.
ssjtin
Science once thought that atoms were solid, and they developed a model based on some evidence that they had researched, then as they researched more and did some actual constructive work they learnt more about the atom and progressed on to more accurate models with actual proof. Science strives to give us a better understanding of the world and possibilities. The things you believe in such as psychic powers and the such are NOT possibilities. How many people do you know have telekinetic powers? Zip. How many people claim to have these powers, hundreds and thousands of losers, none of whom have ever been able to show any proof. Keyword, proof. The gullible say "hey you skeptic, open your mind, believe, why must you always have proof?". Because proof is what you need to believe, not just a bunch of fake, vague, references no one's ever heard about conducted by some lamo "researchers". Someone read my mind. Someone legitimately move objects with there mind. No takers, then quit your harping about things you don't understand.

I would love a world where people could fly around and I had magical powers and owned a pet dragon. I'm open to possibilities. I'm open to the possibility that bigfoot did exist as a big weird looking ape. I'm open to the possibility that a lot of great things are still to be discovered, by science. And I dunno how you classify religion, but if science is a religion it's the only one I know that lies on the basis of proof, evidence, explanation. Scientists don't say "hey, I was out in the woods camping, right, and I saw an atom with 5 billion neutrons, it....was....awesome. Everybody, atoms can officially have up to 5 billion neutrons and a gazillion electrons. No proof? NO PROOF!?!?! You ignorant people who are skeptical for skepticisms sake! Open your eyes! The word of one loony guy who goes camping alone is good enough for us, IT MUST BE POSSIBLE...".

Why would you compare this to other religions like ones based on the bible which is a book some guy wrote?
brave_new_world
QUOTE(ssjtin @ Dec 3 2006, 03:49 PM) [snapback]1448040[/snapback]

Science once thought that atoms were solid, and they developed a model based on some evidence that they had researched, then as they researched more and did some actual constructive work they learnt more about the atom and progressed on to more accurate models with actual proof. Science strives to give us a better understanding of the world and possibilities. The things you believe in such as psychic powers and the such are NOT possibilities. How many people do you know have telekinetic powers? Zip. How many people claim to have these powers, hundreds and thousands of losers, none of whom have ever been able to show any proof. Keyword, proof. The gullible say "hey you skeptic, open your mind, believe, why must you always have proof?". Because proof is what you need to believe, not just a bunch of fake, vague, references no one's ever heard about conducted by some lamo "researchers". Someone read my mind. Someone legitimately move objects with there mind. No takers, then quit your harping about things you don't understand.

I would love a world where people could fly around and I had magical powers and owned a pet dragon. I'm open to possibilities. I'm open to the possibility that bigfoot did exist as a big weird looking ape. I'm open to the possibility that a lot of great things are still to be discovered, by science. And I dunno how you classify religion, but if science is a religion it's the only one I know that lies on the basis of proof, evidence, explanation. Scientists don't say "hey, I was out in the woods camping, right, and I saw an atom with 5 billion neutrons, it....was....awesome. Everybody, atoms can officially have up to 5 billion neutrons and a gazillion electrons. No proof? NO PROOF!?!?! You ignorant people who are skeptical for skepticisms sake! Open your eyes! The word of one loony guy who goes camping alone is good enough for us, IT MUST BE POSSIBLE...".

Why would you compare this to other religions like ones based on the bible which is a book some guy wrote?


If atoms are empty then why is it that when i hold something like let's say a piece of wood made of atoms, it is solid??
Also many of the basis facts in science is wrong like atoms being solid. You say that there basis is proof?? Where was the prooful basis that classical physics had that atoms were solid, when now it is solid proof that they are empty???
Much scientists today still hold true that "consciousness" is a fucntion of biology when there is no proof.
Many scientists held true back the day that the subconscious never existed, now we know that it plays a determining factor on the behaviour of the surface conscious.
You say that science is the only religion that has "proof" as it's basis?? I laugh at that.
Science once said that humans were the only creatures to show emotion it was based on scientifc "proof" now we know for certain that this is not so. There was no mistake in nature, but there was mistake in the scientist who didnt observe properly.
Also PK now has some scientific basis as "proof" if you had read my last post about the convulsionaires thoroughly.



Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true. (Niels Bohr, quantum physicist)

No perceptual judgement can ever be made with complete certainty. -Werner Heisenberg(nobel prize-winning physicist)

The first philosophy (Metaphysics) is universal and is exclusively concerned with primary substance. & It is the principles and causes of the things that are that we are seeking, and clearly it is their principles and causes just as things that are. & And here we will have the science to study that which is just as that which is, both in its essence and in the properties which, just as a thing that is, it has. (Aristotle, 340BC)

Also did you know that Einstein believed in God?? And so did Isaac Newton, both famous scientists????
ssjtin
QUOTE
Also did you know that Einstein believed in God?? And so did Isaac Newton, both famous scientists????


Wow, that's great! But......a useless point that you've thrown in in an attempt to build a strong arguement, but actually makes you look weak.

So you've come back at me with examples where in the past science has said something to be true based on the evidence they had at the time, which turned out to be inaccurate. If they really did say "We've got this evidence, which shows WITHOUT A DOUBT that this is true", then I agree that it was wrong for them to do that. But the fact that we found out that some things that science claimed to be true were false shows that science continues to work towards finding better explanations for the way things are.

I see you coming here telling me these things wrong with science. Why don't you tell me all the things wrong with the way people try to justify PK and all things paranormal. How about the hundreds of people posting videos of themselves on youtube working a psiwheel which is proven to actually be driven by thermal currents. Hold on, science trumps you again. How about the the "study" where they sat people in a room to think of heads, and a couple more heads occured in the trial. That's like showing them a box inside which is hidden a ball bearing in a maze and telling them to think of the ball reaching the end. They're just thinking of an idea, which is somehow changed into different information, i.e. "get the ball bearing to the end" somehow becomes "ball moves east, then south, then west, then south, then north, then west to the end". I would be a tiny bit more impressed if a coin was actually flipped in front of them and they got more "heads", because then what they're focussin on is actually what's going to happen, not somehow affect a machine or device or whatever silly prop they used, where they don't know how it works, they don't know how to make it turn out more heads.....so how does this prove that they affected the outcome by mind power or PK?

Have you ever done chemistry? Do you even know what an atom is made up of? If you did you'd know that your "arguement" about a block of wood being solid is, well, extremely ignorant. And why are you quoting Heisenberg? Do you know of his work? Do you know how to apply the Heisenberg uncertainty principle? My guess is you just came across his name with that quote and saw he was "a clever dude" and decided to try and embarrass me with your random quote.
brave_new_world
QUOTE(ssjtin @ Dec 3 2006, 07:24 PM) [snapback]1448144[/snapback]

Wow, that's great! But......a useless point that you've thrown in in an attempt to build a strong arguement, but actually makes you look weak.

So you've come back at me with examples where in the past science has said something to be true based on the evidence they had at the time, which turned out to be inaccurate. If they really did say "We've got this evidence, which shows WITHOUT A DOUBT that this is true", then I agree that it was wrong for them to do that. But the fact that we found out that some things that science claimed to be true were false shows that science continues to work towards finding better explanations for the way things are.

I see you coming here telling me these things wrong with science. Why don't you tell me all the things wrong with the way people try to justify PK and all things paranormal. How about the hundreds of people posting videos of themselves on youtube working a psiwheel which is proven to actually be driven by thermal currents. Hold on, science trumps you again. How about the the "study" where they sat people in a room to think of heads, and a couple more heads occured in the trial. That's like showing them a box inside which is hidden a ball bearing in a maze and telling them to think of the ball reaching the end. They're just thinking of an idea, which is somehow changed into different information, i.e. "get the ball bearing to the end" somehow becomes "ball moves east, then south, then west, then south, then north, then west to the end". I would be a tiny bit more impressed if a coin was actually flipped in front of them and they got more "heads", because then what they're focussin on is actually what's going to happen, not somehow affect a machine or device or whatever silly prop they used, where they don't know how it works, they don't know how to make it turn out more heads.....so how does this prove that they affected the outcome by mind power or PK?

Have you ever done chemistry? Do you even know what an atom is made up of? If you did you'd know that your "arguement" about a block of wood being solid is, well, extremely ignorant. And why are you quoting Heisenberg? Do you know of his work? Do you know how to apply the Heisenberg uncertainty principle? My guess is you just came across his name with that quote and saw he was "a clever dude" and decided to try and embarrass me with your random quote.


I am quite aware of the uncertainty principle, which goes into detail about the dualistic function of the wave/particle. Also whether I know how to apply the uncerntianty principal or not, that does not take away the validity of the quote i used.
It only takes abit of inward digestion to understand his point.
You say that science is incompatible with religion I say they are not, and that they are the same. Being open to spiritual possibility is not being anti-scientific.
Also I did not intend to use you-tube as examples to back up scientific claim of Pk. I used a small example of lab testing(jahn and dunne) and the convulsionaires which were witnessed by thousands of people from all spheres of knowledge.
For more of the scientific experimentation on PK

http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cache/papers/c...orrelations.pdf


(thank Rev r for that link/site)

I suggest you read it as a scientist would.


Every word or concept, clear as it may seem to be, has only a limited range of applicability. (Heisenberg, Physics and Philosophy, 1963) JUST A CLEVER DUDE WHO HAS COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION AS THE MYSTICS IN THE SENSE THAT THOUGHTS AND WORDS ARE LIMITED IN DESCRIBING THE WORKINGS OF REALITY.

I'm not trying to embaress you, I'm just pointing out that there is alot of genuine evidence out there for Pk. People ask for links well there I have provided one, what more can I do?? It isn't a you-tube link.
You must ask yourself, what is there to truly lose by being open to spiritual and psychical possibility????


The violent reaction on the recent development of modern physics can only be understood when one realises that here the foundations of physics have started moving; and that this motion has caused the feeling that the ground would be cut from science. (Heisenberg, Physics and Philosophy, 1963)


What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning. (Heisenberg, Physics and Philosophy, 1963


Both matter and radiation possess a remarkable duality of character, as they sometimes exhibit the properties of waves, at other times those of particles. Now it is obvious that a thing cannot be a form of wave motion and composed of particles at the same time - the two concepts are too different. (Werner Heisenberg, on Quantum Theory, 1930)

See how quantum physics is the wedding ring of science and relgion?? We dont have the imagination to know what knowledge we are missing out on. thumbsup.gif

Never underestimate the power of the human mind to believe what it wants to believe, no matter the conflicting evidence.---Caedmon Erb, Politics and Reality
rob lester
Poor starter of this thread just wanted to know if he had abilities.....Look what we have done to him .....
3rd rock resident alien
In Europe they burn people with these kind of abilities.
3rd rock resident alien
This one is apologizing

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Chris_Benoit_m..._coincidence%22

erynys
QUOTE(The Raven @ Dec 2 2006, 01:09 PM) *
Not to disagree or agree with you for that matter, Rob Lester, but if I was a "psychic" and had these magnificent powers, I would not make them evident nor tell nearly anyone. The only thing you would ever gain -- or in this case lose -- by revealing these abilities to the masses in a method that created undeniable proof, would be self-incrimination. Look at the stars in Hollywood -- would you want fame like that? Would you want to be glorified and then demonized by society in poisonous succession? Now I am not going to say Psychics do or do not exist, but remember that there are many things people can hide. A reasonable explanation as to why people have not taken up the challenge, other than the difficulty of the experiment, is that they don't want to prove it to anyone. There are some things better left off known to yourself and yourself alone.

lol. its not that. its just that some of us are still trying to understand our abilities and makes them stronger. and sometimes we're wrong. its not like we can predict the choices people make. that would eliminate free will. anyways. im 15. just discovering AMAZING potential that has me feeling like someone is hitting my head with a hammer on a daily basis. you would not BELIEVE how much stress it is. and im gonna train and maybe when i feel confident enough, ill do some readings for you guys. ive done readings for other people with a 97% accuracy rate. its fairly cool, but stressful. giving too many readings drains my physical energy and i can eventually pass out. sad.gif which is prolly why i sleep a lot. lol. anyway. point being that i first discovered my abilities when i asked a friend a question and then said the answer outloud before he did because it popped into my head. and then one was when my mom was gonna kick me and i knew she was gonna do it ahead of time and i blocked her and sent her to the ground. em...lemme see. oh yeah, once, when i was a kid, i was in class. this happened the saturday after 9/11. this girl in my german saturday class brought all these papers about nostradamus and his predictions about 9/11 to class cuz we have discussion everyday for fun. anyway, she read the papers and whatnot. well, thats what i remember, although these events never took place. because when she did actually do it, i interrupted her and told her she had already talked about this some time earlier(i couldnt remember when) and then i told her everything she was about to say. and everyone just looked at me while i laughed and made some joke about her being too high to remember anything. and she was like, staring at me with her mouth open just like, stunned. but anyway. thats my fav story cuz its funny how i had no clue that i was psychic and i was just laughing while everyone was shocked out of their minds.
John A Spera
QUOTE(erynys @ Jun 30 2007, 09:53 AM) *
lol. its not that. its just that some of us are still trying to understand our abilities and makes them stronger. and sometimes we're wrong. its not like we can predict the choices people make. that would eliminate free will. anyways. im 15. just discovering AMAZING potential that has me feeling like someone is hitting my head with a hammer on a daily basis. you would not BELIEVE how much stress it is. and im gonna train and maybe when i feel confident enough, ill do some readings for you guys. ive done readings for other people with a 97% accuracy rate. its fairly cool, but stressful. giving too many readings drains my physical energy and i can eventually pass out. sad.gif which is prolly why i sleep a lot. lol. anyway. point being that i first discovered my abilities when i asked a friend a question and then said the answer outloud before he did because it popped into my head. and then one was when my mom was gonna kick me and i knew she was gonna do it ahead of time and i blocked her and sent her to the ground. em...lemme see. oh yeah, once, when i was a kid, i was in class. this happened the saturday after 9/11. this girl in my german saturday class brought all these papers about nostradamus and his predictions about 9/11 to class cuz we have discussion everyday for fun. anyway, she read the papers and whatnot. well, thats what i remember, although these events never took place. because when she did actually do it, i interrupted her and told her she had already talked about this some time earlier(i couldnt remember when) and then i told her everything she was about to say. and everyone just looked at me while i laughed and made some joke about her being too high to remember anything. and she was like, staring at me with her mouth open just like, stunned. but anyway. thats my fav story cuz its funny how i had no clue that i was psychic and i was just laughing while everyone was shocked out of their minds.


I think you are consciousaly tapping into the information exchange that is always happening at the subconscious level between people.

If you can visualize a conversation between yourself and another person's subconsious, you will expand your understanding about this ability.

John

xenodude
Being that all things are energy (in some form or another). Why can't people be psychic. Just because science wants to dismiss everything that is paranormal. Ghost could be just a psychic memory lock here on earth. Precognitive abilities could just mean that he was in balance with the moment. I have those moments myself. Most people have. Just because there is no solid proof doesn't mean that it's not real.
Alienated Being
I think you're just good at guessing. That occurrence, by no means, indicates that you have developing 'psychic ability'.
erynys
QUOTE(brave_new_world @ Dec 2 2006, 10:37 PM) *
Magic and psychic ability have little to nothing to do with true spirituality, hence they are potentually dangerous. People want to do things for the greater good with their powers and supernormal abilities?? All well and good, but unless one can perform them from a completely spiritual perspective(enlightenment) there is always that ego attachment to them, which can be worse for spiritual liberation than someone who posses no such abilites.
If as is often the case, you are born with such gifts, then understand that those are gift swhich are to be used as a means to an end and are not in any case an end in itself. Ultimately whether this makes sense to you or not i dont know, i truly know nothing.

to get where i am with my abilities, i went through AMAZING personality transformations and many other difficult tasks in my life to shape myself. it wasnt just about the abilities. its a complete life changing journey. its completely spiritual for me as i learned the basic principles of all existence and communed with eevrything around me from the tree in my yard to the goddess. it has been so wonderful for me and i thank her every day that i chose to go through this. psychic abilities have EVERYTHING to do with spirituality. just so you know. wink2.gif but the are not just gauges to see how enlightened you have become. to not use your abilities to help people would really just be a waste. in numerology, my life path would be 11, a master number that states that i should use my psychic abilities to be a counselor or therapist. and my star charts are pretty adament about it as well. if u want, u can look at it here. http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=...ExJ-u1183176142
angrycrustacean
My life path is 69.

It's served me well.
wst50
QUOTE(The Raven @ Dec 2 2006, 06:37 AM) *
This is often what makes most psychics realize their power and potential. This is strong proof that you have the gift and it is beginning to awaken, but you must learn to use it for the good of humanity. Check internet sites and look up "psionics" on Google, it's where most people start. Have fun with your new power, but you MUST use it for good! (Darn you're lucky, I have tried for three years and not gotten results like this!) cat.gif


It isn't a gift. Everyone has it, you just have to learn to use it. Which requires mucho willpower and determination. Which I don't have, so I only get deja vu at most so far. Which I used to think was weird, but now it happens so often that I just fast forward the 'memory' and if it turns out good, I keep going as I do, and if it turns out bad, I change whatever I did in the 'memory' to hopefully change the event for the better.

Maybe when I can be bothered to try learning properly I will move on to other stuff. But it's not a gift, just a hidden potential that everyone has.
Clue
QUOTE(SSJ2VEGETA @ Dec 1 2006, 03:45 AM) *
okay well, it just started this year, i've been noticing at random times i feel like i know whats going to be said or possibly done, like for example this one time confirmation (church) my pastor was talking about this activity they were doing, and they were talking about what they were going to ear for dinner during for it and i knew what it was she was going to suggest, before she even said it. another example is we did this guessing game with a number and i got it right on.

((also side note i am a freshman in high school))

I was told that only u know what u are capable of... only u know how much u can take and how far u can go... no one can tell u that.. so u tell me r u psychic or r u a good guesser????
erynys
not everyone has the same psychic potential. thats like saying we ALL have the ability to play excellent piano, or excellent film directors, or excellent football players. some people have an aptitude for it, while others lack that spark. not everyone has the same purpose in life, and not everyone is meant to be psychic. it doesnt make you special. it just means you have a different purpose in life. :\ i really wish more people would realize how useless it is to glamorize anything on the physical plane.
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