Well I have been conversing with a wonderful friend of mine who I adore...

They told me something I was like "wow"

I was saying how God loves an honest man. The they say: "Then why does he treat me so shabbily"

I told him that what some people think is blessing is way overrated- having wonderful friends and such is the true blessing- God knows what each person needs and to be honest I feel I am truly blessed - even though I would love to win the lottery.

Do you feel God has blessed you and if not why do you feel that way?

I don't feel that god has blessed me with anything. I mean I don't worship him, ask him for anything, nor do I believe in him. There are things in my life, of course, that I'm thankful for like my family, friends, my job, my health, and the health of my family and friends. These things I do not attribute as to being doled out from any form of higher power.

I think that a person is surrounded by good things as a result of good behaviour. It works in the opposite sense aswell negative behaviour brings to fruition a negative surronding. The guilt and shame of negative behaviour restricts a person from being able to propagate positive things.

We all have the ability and the right to reap positive rewards as a result of doing good. Why attribute these good things to God, when they should be attributed to good behaviour, indeed the good things in life should be the motivation to act accordingly.

I'm here, with a wonderful family, wonderful friends, with good health, with wonderful experiences, both good and bad.

If that's not a blessing then I don't know what is.

Yes I do belive GOD has blessed me I have my family I dont know what I would do with out them I love them very much. I have good friends and even though there is so much bad in the world I can still see all the beauty that there is still around me. I never talked to anyone on line until I found Unexplained Mysteries and have read alot of interesting things by alot of interesting,careing,open minded,funny people. Thanks. I feel these things are blessings mind you I'm not a bible thumper. Oh yes and my cats wont forget them.

Yeah- I think a lot of what is good IMO is a reflection of God's love...

God loves all his children even those who don't believe in him- that is the beauty of God.

I also believe that in giving love you will recieve love...

So I try not to "hate" anything.

Being blessed implys that some are more fortunate than others, this is a belief that is incomplete IMO, All of life has the same oppourtunitys the same possibilitys, a myriad of potential, I beleive miracles and 'blessings ' are common everyday occurences for everyone,.the sun shines on the wicked and the saintly the same...We can all attest to having hard times in a course of a life and the thing that stands out the most is its what you make of it.... that is important, there seems to be a bit of wisdom in "have and attitude of gratitude" for that which you are grateful for grows, is it a diety or special favor, no it can work for anyone....101 you have a good attitude and its a wonderful reminder to see the blessings or perfection in the moment it enriches the life experience and brings a life that is the perfection.....

giving and recieving are the same thing...

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I think Christians try and attribute alot of things in life to God, because they're trying to find something on this earth that can reinforce the belief that he's actually even there, but to the original poster, has God ever taken credit for you meeting your friends, has he ever taken credit for you having a roof over your head and food on your plate? Or maybe did you make those things happen in your life? Where's God's blessing for those who don't even have the essentials in life? The thousands who die every day by starving to death because they were born into a poor family who could not support them? These people did not have the opportunity to make a life for themselves, and no God gave them one. So, does your God care about the state of 3rd world countries, while he is "blessing" the people born into the land where even poverty is luxury compared to the state of some other nations?

so in all reality you don't think life itself- is a blessing- because even when a person is poor and starving would they rather be dead- Honestly I don't know. But I know that some people who have been blessed can help others- then less would be starving and that is what we should do.

I have I suppose provided myself with a life and I think some was giving to me by God and not myself. It may appear to be me- or whatnot but we all know who truly blessed us and my family

I do not think life itself is necessarily a blessing. Would you rather be born into a disease-stricken country, have your father leave and lose your mother at a very young age, be forced to fend for yourself and die of starvation than not be born at all?

Here's what I'm getting at: If God will bless you when you already have so much, why does he not bless those other people who need it so much more? To me, that simply proves that nobody is recieving blessings from God. Either that, or whatever God is blessing people is an idiot.

Well I never thought I had so much- but i am blessed - blessed enough to have food- even if it is little- and blessed enough to have a car. I get what you are saying- but bitterness only leads to anger- why be angry when you friend has a job that makes swell money when you are Poverty? Have you ever seen the poverty levels in US? Not only do many single mothers have that problem they then cannot get assistance to save their life. So you just have to think positive-

101 Its okay to want a great job as your friend too, it can be tough as a single mother and sometimes anger can be channeled into the passion to find a better way, ,Martin Luther King used his anger in a healthy way alot of people use it to motivate change. You are a bright girl who deserves every oppourtunity jsut the same as anyone else....Please don't just give up and say this is the best it can get....anything is possible anything.....

There came a time in my life when I faced a personal problem that had reached a crisis point. For many years, I tried everything I could think of to deal with it, and it just got worse. I never asked any God for help because I thought God was basically a figure of speech (and I still think that's true to an extent). And if God was a real, conscious thing, I didn't think it would just wave its metaphorical hand and take away my difficulties simply because I asked. I figured if any answer was forthcoming, it would be "do it yourself."

But I was in a position where I would try any reasonable suggestion, and someone I admired suggested I pray to a God that I could understand. The idea was to say something like: "Take away whatever is keeping me from fulfilling Your will for me in this world." So I did. I looked at it as a sort of meditation exercise or an alternate mode of thinking about my problems or some such. Like psychotherapy or something. Not only did I lack the slightest shred of faith in this prayer thing-- it never even occurred to me that it would actually work. I mean I did not even imagine it.

But it did work, much to my complete amazement. Problem gone, zap, never to return as yet. I don't know how, and I don't know why. Furthermore, many good things suddenly just seemed to start falling into place. And whenever I face a personal difficulty I don't know how to overcome, I do the same thing, and I get the same results.

I wouldn't blame anyone for doubting. Before I tried it, I didn't even have the concept that prayer could transform a person. Sure, I'd heard the idea, but I didn't know what it meant. I thought it would be like self-affirmation or therapy or maybe that Tony Robbins crap. So I'm not up here saying, oh sure, the Sky Man will save you if you just believe what I'm saying. No one can believe a thing like this unless they try it and see.

I think it's a blessing, and I think anyone can have it for the asking.

Many ppl have a tendency to count all there problems, and downsides.

Infact, write them down, everything that's wrong with in your eyes, it may bring some tears, all of your "cursings."

Then write down all your blessings, all the positive things you have and can do. Im sure they will outweigh the cursings.

Blessed be the almighty, ready to forgive all sins.

boorite this would work for anyone the eastern mystics have been teaching of the power of thought and prayer which is a form of thought control for eons...this is not new and the truth is the power of suggestion is very strong especially fueled by intent.... you just decided to change your mind about your circumstnaces and created a whole drama around it..this too humans have been doing forever....

I believe that God blesses me daily, through my family, my friends here, and even through the ones I respectfully disagree with.

I don't think it's anything new, either.

But prayer did not work for me on the basis of suggestion and intent. If that were the case, I never would have tried prayer, because I already had years and years of suggestion and intent under my belt. Nor was it simply a case of changing my mind and creating a drama. If it were any of those things, my problem would have lifted long before.

Let me ask you and anyone else who is interested a favor: Please try to respect my experience instead of explaining it away. I am not asking for explanations. I know how to think about the human mind and have probably done too much of that as it is. I am telling you from the bottom of my heart and to the best of my knowledge that prayer had a different effect for me. I am not asking you to believe that. Lord knows I wouldn't. But please, these pat answers of yours have occurred to me, so please just take my experience for what it is and leave debate aside for the moment. I have zero interest in arguments about this, here in this thread.

The OP asked us to share our experiences, and so I have. Try prayer if you like, or if you don't like it, don't try it. Either way, I feel a duty to say that it worked for me. Maybe someone will read this and try it and get some benefit.

Not sure where you're going with that, I'm not thinking negative, I'm saying how can you believe that God is blessing people here in America where life is not nearly as hard for almost anyone as in some other countries, Rather than blessing those who are actually in need of blessings?

It was not meant as an insult boorite, i just want to keep in the mix that noone needs to be anything or do anything or follow a certain 'path' to be worthwhile or 'blessed' you most certainly have the choice to story your life any way you wish, but can you truly convince another that your way is the 'way'.... ? the only possiblitlity in a sea of potential...No in all honesty you can't...prayer can be called many things just like 'gOd", a generic word which means somethiing differnet to everyone that is the point to celebrate the many ways to live a life of joy not to infer there is only one.......and that there is many ways to live a full life...

None taken.



Nope, and I wouldn't try, because I don't think it's true that "my way is the way."

For anyone to see if prayer works for him, he'd have to try it himself.

e\actly, what one calls the best for them another calls it something else and both are wonderful....I'm glad to hear life turned around for you.....

blessings are a frame of reference. You can see something in a positive manner, and thus as a blessing, or otherwise see it in a neutral or negative manner.

Perhaps learning to better fully experience now, and not getting bound up in thoughts of the past or future is an answer.

As references go, we can either want what we don't have, or see what we have as what we need.

If no one minds me sharing this, I have had almost constant feeling that I was "cursed," rather than blessed. A couple years ago I was absolutely convinced that the universe had it out for me. For almost two decades, something good would happen to me, and almost immediately it was followed by something not just bad, but shattering. I wouldn't have minded so much if it was an an even give/take that left me at status quo, but always the bad was at least twice as bad as the good. I've always joked that once is happenstance, twice coincidence, and three times a conspiracy. If these things had happened only once or twice, I wouldn't have had another thought, but it's been a constant stream of it. Well beyond three times.

Here are a few examples:

After working hard and scrimping and eating ramen for longer than I would have liked to, I finally had enough money to pay off my debts. Three blocks after I pulled out of the bank parking lot, an uninsured driver ran a stop sign and plowed into my car. The damage was twice the amount of money I had finally saved. Add to that, this state had just removed uninsured motorist property damage from the liability only coverage a month prior. All my saved money went to fixing the car just enough to get it street legal. So now I was in debt with a (technically) totaled car that was barely running.

After a year of a dead-end, miserable job at Wal-Mart, I finally (after months of begging to be scheduled on a holiday) had the opportunity to earn triple holiday overtime, which was equal to an entire month of pay. That paycheck would have meant just enough extra money to be able to cut down on my work hours so I could focus on school. I went to pick up my paycheck and discovered my wages had been garnished through a (later discovered) shady court proceeding for a debt that I didn't even owe.

Related to the two above, I finally had enough saved up for a sizeable down payment on a new car. I didn't realize that my identity was in the hands of someone else. The day before the dealership processed my credit background paperwork, all those negative marks from the identity theft posted to my credit report. In one day, my credit rating went from 723 to 320. I have the car, but the interest rate will end up almost a third of the cost of the car.

I moved into university housing the same month they decided caged and aquarium pets were no longer allowed, after going to great lengths to get a bearded dragon.

I've taken a total of three classes that were cancelled the day after the deadline to return textbooks. Core classes that were required. In the same semester.

After a long battle, I finally got financial aid for school, only to find out after I spent all the money that my mom had declared me as a dependent so they wanted all the money back.

I finally could afford the geiger counter I had been saving up for only to discover that it was a discontinued model that could no longer be found anywhere. The only alternative for the purposes I needed was seven times the cost.

After being thousands of miles away from family and friends for a few years, I finally made a friend who had similar interests. She turned out to be an abusive, alcoholic, drug-using, certifiably insane smear on the face of humanity and tortured me for three years before I managed to escape.

I got the perfect job that I had been dreaming of. It was only temporary, so I kept paying rent on my apartment back in Minnesota. One month after I left, they got themselves evicted, changed all the utilities to my name right after running up the bills to insane levels ($800 in calls to Sweden! Yay!), stole my belongings, and kept taking the rent money I was sending. I didn't discover this for a while and almost lost my job taking a week to fly back and salvage what I could. They also took the cat.

I once drove two hours (two hours being 160 miles) to see a movie the theater had said was playing that night, but when I got there, it was playing the next night. On the way home, I hit an antelope.

When I was in high school, I took a lot of college credit classes. I was at school at 5am every day and stayed til 7pm every night to take them. I was assured that they would transfer. When I got to college, I was told they would not transfer. So in my senior year of college, I took all those classes over again (including freshman english, despite having already had all the upper level classes). One week before the semester ended, I received notice that my credits actually do transfer and I don't need to take those classes. I can't even begin to count how much money and time was spent retaking classes.

That's just a few of the things that's happened in the past 7 years. So no, I don't feel blessed.

The other shoe has been constantly dropping for me. I've gotten constantly paranoid almost to the point of superstition (though no rabbit feet on my keychain yet). Whenever something good happens, I brace myself for the inevitable collapse. When I was dating the man who later became my husband, I was absolutely convinced he would explode. Every day I realized I was happy and then I would start to look for bad wiring or structural damage to the house. Up until the day we got married, I was terrified that he would die in bed the day before the wedding or get run over by a car.

And as for our wedding? We had to do it over almost a month later. There was a paperwork snafu.

Edit: By the way, in the past 9 years, I've fallen down 6 flights of stairs and 2 escalators. In the Mall of America, I had my skirt caught in the escalator and pulled off. It didn't have an elastic waistband (i.e. it hurt like hell). I've also been shot and struck by lightning.

geez ivy that is really tragic, almost fodder for a stand up comedy routine, please do not take this as a lack of caring...I'm so sorry you have had it so bad, i thought I can't read anymore but then i read on..this far suprpasses my 7 years of bad luck phase for breaking a mirror, boy did i beleive some silly things in my youth...how has thngs turned out for you????? ((hugs))) i really identify with you i rember when i met my hubby now I was so sure he was too good to be true and i just knew he was gonna be gay or something. well luckily it was jsut paranoia..lol phew.... after a few years of introspection and personal evaluation and some serious inventory of beleifs, and thousands of hours of therapy... , life is a joy to live i hope the same for you....

that is a long list you have there, ivy.

"fully experiencing the now" I like that. It is very easy to get caught up in old routinees or thought patterns casuing a destructive path leading to a less positive experience.

some people think they need so much when you really don't need that much at all

I like to think that what I have I have aquired through my own work and determination.

To shrug it off as nothing more then the blessings of god... or the kindness of god seems to ignore the fact that to get here took a hell of a lot of hard work.

It is not the blessing of god that Bill Gates is rich or the like. It comes down to a hell of a lot of hardwork, determination and daring.

The same goes for a successful family. It doesn't stay successful through the will of god... Rather it takes hard and constant work and attention.

I think the individual is far more important then is indicated when people say "God was kind to them" Particularly when you consider the far larger of people the god has not been kind to.

I am blessed .. I'm blessed with Life, Liberty and Happiness .. I've been blessed with the ability and the opportunity to have a comfortable life .. health, family, home, job, friends .. just to name a few.

Last night my car was stickered with an "intent to impound abandoned vehicle" sticker. Granted, I was annoyed, but it's just so funny. Since it was parked next to my house.

And despite everything that's happened to me (as described above) I no longer feel like I'm cursed as much. Granted, when something good happens I still involuntarily duck or check for shorts in the wiring, but my husband didn't explode the night before our wedding and (so far) the house is still standing. Plus, some of the things that happened are funny on their own (lightning strike and being shot were pretty funny) and others are funny looking back. Plus there's the inherent funniness of that things like that happen so often. I still wonder if my cats will explode because my grandmother sent me a couple bucks for christmas, but I'm happy now. So even if I am cursed, it's not that bad.

Struck by lightning oh my.

I like to think that about myself also, but I find on further examination that it's not the case.

Blessing's are like that saying...beauty is in the eye of the beholder....blessings are the same their all in the eye of the beholder...we're all blessed that this world isnt in all out chaos..im blessed that my family has salvation..im blessed to have a second chance to serve god....im blessed that i dont live the way i used to live...im blessed day to day with his keeping power his mercy his grace.. i am blessed for living in a country where i am allowed Freedom and Liberty... I am blessed to have a warm dry home...i am blessed to have a dependable vechicale..... i am blessed i have food on my table...i am blessed i have clothes on my back...i can not tell of ways that i am blessed...But I Am Truly Blessed Of The Lord...My God My Savior

IMO, I am blessed with so much, a warm home, 2 beautiful children, a loving husband who's my best friend, food on the table, clothes on my back, 2 running vehicles. Most of all I'm blessed with a loving God who is always there for me, even when I don't deserve His attention.

Sbradj and TCgram- great posts you all truly love God. It is different how people find blessings. I mean I am blessed to just have great friends. It is so wonderful.

For somebody who claims not to believe in God, your sure know HIS law very well. Yes 'as you saw, so you reap; if not in this live then in the next!' and hence this easy salvation-theory that Jesus died for our sins is a contradiction aginst the universal/Gods law! I also dont believe that God changes HIS LAW as we chage our underwear, just to suit any religion!
But then that is just what I believe...

It's interesting to read what others think of as blessings.

I feel very blessed. I've experienced and seen so many different things in my life so far that I can only feel blessed. I also have everything I need and there is nothing really that I wish for, which is a great feeling. I feel blessed too because I live in a very nice city(Perth)and Australia is pretty sweet compared to other places in the world that I've seen. So I love my city and home heaps and I feel very blessed just living where I do. I also feel blessed because I am blessed with a son who loves me very much. And I feel blessed that there is no-one else really that I have to worry about.. to me that is a blessing hey. Theres just so many reasons why I feel blessed... I felt blessed the first time I had a lucid dream... it was like being blessed with sight. And each one after that was a blessing. And basically when something 'bad' happens in my life now.. I feel blessed.. like a blessing in disguise.

Everything in it's own way, is a blessing....sometimes though, we only see it that way as an after thought..........

I belive the "blessings" I have are a result of choice and circumstance. My family thinks its a gift from god that I didn't inherit any of my families bad genetics(Between my Mom and Dad sides of the famiy they have every medical problem).

But then why has every one of my family members suffered from some sort of medical illness except me? My entire Dad's side of the family is christian and most of them don't live past 60. There is my great grandma though who is 90 now...but she isn't catholic(Native American religion i think...worships nature and the like) and then theirs me the non religous kid that against all odds was born with none of his families bad genetics.

My Dad is only 38 years old and has had close to a hundred brain operations since he was born. He suffers constant head aches, bad memory, bad blatter, and gets dizzy to the point where he can't walk. He goes to church almost twice a week, goes to Bible meetings, helps out at church functions, etc. He's in the hospital every month and my dad and step mom's family pray for him everyday.

My grandpa died at the age of 35 from a brain related disease, my grandma can't even remeber who I am anymore. My uncle is 30 years old and and has to have surgery for his back and lungs.

But here I am a non believer and I will out live most of my family. I defy god on these boards everyday, but my religious father my die tomorrow. Every week my pagan great grandma visits her daughter...but my grandma doesn't know who my great grandma is.

God has the power to do great things...but he chooses to let his followers suffer.

"Evil prevails when the good do nothing"
"With great power comes great responsibility"

God is no better fit to be a god then any one of us. I hope that one day it all comes back to get him.

Cadetak47..sry to hear of the health related problems your family has/faces.......but myabe through the suffering and forbearing someone prayed for you to not encounter problems such as those that they has faced...it is possiable that their faith in god has kept you from it through their pain...and if that is how they see "this" situation then it is truly a blessing to them..though you may not see it that is how they might...if they are staying/doing gods will/work as you state then truly they are seeking and believeing in god...you may not see that you being healthy is a blessing but id say your parents surly do and are greatly thankful...even if your not a believer ....them being one and seeing a pray answered is strenghth to them.. its truly amazing what pray and belief will do for those that beleive..just thought id share that..

I'm sure my father did pray for me to be healthy, just as I'm sure my grandma prayed for my dad to be healthy. As far as I know for the last six generations of my family(probobly more) there has only bin two people born without any serious medical problems or bad genetics. I'm not sure how big my family is but that has to be over fifty honest god fearing people. One out of twenty five people are born healthy in my family...and in all god's good graces he gives the gift of good health to the ones who he knew would grow to defy him.

It's easy to count the blessings when you ignore the curses.

When I meet my maker I'll be sure to repay him in kind.

From my experience, God does not save from the suffering, He saves IN the suffering

I don't know what you mean by that...but even if God doesn't save the suffering he caused the suffering.

Well said..

I am blessed with my health..my lil girl and if I must my partner LOL..not to forget my home...job...friends (that like to sit in my house to all hours)!! and Satellite tv, my car, my cell phone (both of them) my PC, my lovely new suite of furniture, my dog, my clothes, my coffee maker, all my shoes, but hey wait...I wasnt blessed with cooking skills...ohh well cant have everything

Would God approve of God? Would the 'ideal' of a perfect, all loving God approve of the Hebrew and Christian God Yahweh? No, the ideal of God would not approve of God if the old testament is a true accounting of Yahweh. The evidence shows that the God of the monotheists as written in the bible is a man made story, whether it is the story of Jesus or the God Yahweh of the Hebrews.

I write this after being a Catholic for 50+ years. What caused my change in heart about God? Was it God's refusal to answer a self centered prayer...No. Was it all the evil in the world...No. My change in heart with my belief in God came from 'real study' of the dogma and the books claimed to be the written words of God with a desire to get closer to God. But, the more I studied, the further from God my studies took me. But this is only a by product of the study of truth, for if the study leads to a certain direction one must follow it, if one is truth based. And if one is not truth based one makes up fantasy and excuses and lives a delusional life.

If we look at logical and philosophical arguments for God they add up to zero as each one of these arguments can be argued for or against God

Ontological Argument +
Ontological Argument (--)
Cosmological Argument +
Cosmological Argument (--)
Teleological Argument +
Teleological Argument (--)
-----------------------------------------
Total = ZERO

As such, we need to look deeper into what the various religions of the monotheist say to find the truth. There are four books claiming to be the word of God. they are the Old Testament, New Testament, Qur'an and the Book of Mormon. (OT, NT, Q and BOM) All these books conflict, yet all claim to be the perfect word of God? Why doesn't God make clear which one of these books to follow so there is no misunderstanding? After all, a mistake in direction yield everlasting torture in hell? Since God wont answer, we will have to answer for God by asking some questions to get at the truth that God was invented by man. In short we will judge God by the ideals of God. Then we can see clearly these words of God were not written by an all perfect and all loving, all good God but were just written by men claiming to be God.

Some religious advocates say it is presumptuous of anyone to 'judge' God. But, such persons also judge God when they say God is good? In order to judge something good it must still be judged? From my studies, I have judged God as a creation or fantasy of man's mind and a God that would refuse to tell the direction for a person to take and then take joy in torturing that person for a mistake that the person could not avoid is definitely bad.

God was no always so silent with direction. If we go back to the OT we can see God communicated extensively with the Hebrews. God directed them specifically with how to design and build things and how to worship him through burnt offerings and penance. God was very detailed with his directions about unclean women during menses and how the Hebrews should keep their slaves. All quotes courtesy of http://www.evilbible.com/ (BTW, they banned me from their forums...so much for freethinkers.)

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." Exodus 21:20-21

God approving of slavery? God not approving of the Egyptians keeping slaves yet is OK for the Hebrews to keep slaves? Again not a perfect God. If we read further we will see God very bigoted and condemning of all other nationalities except his chosen people the Hebrews. What makes the world think such a bigoted God would accept them when God had such hatred for others he supposedly created?

If we go to more modern times and the Christian dogma where God offered his son to be tortured and killed in order for God to forgive our sins? What do we do when we forgive another? Do we kill our son or daughter or just forgive? How much more a perfect God could have just forgiven us without killing his son? But God seemed to emphasize the killing children in his words to his faithful as we can see in these OT quotes.

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." Ezekiel 9:5-7

"The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." Hosea 9:11-16

"Suppose a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they discipline him. In such cases, the father and mother must take the son before the leaders of the town. They must declare: 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a worthless drunkard.' Then all the men of the town must stone him to death. In this way, you will cleanse this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid." Deuteronomy 21:18-21

What happened to this vocal God that seemed to die with the authors of the Old Testament, for no one ever hears a peep from God? Did God die with the writers? BTW, if God was a perfect designer, should he have not made women 'unclean' and not have menses and that way God could have saved some breath and cut his 600+ commandants to the Hebrew down by one? See: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~adamgosp/otcomm.htm

God even commanded the people how to bake bread, (with human excrement) discriminate against the handicapped, kill the faithful of other religions and how much money to pay to rape young women.

Each day prepare your bread as you would barley cakes. While all the people are watching, bake it over a fire using dried human dung as fuel and then eat the bread. For this is what the LORD says: "Israel will eat defiled bread in the Gentile lands, where I will banish them!" Then I said, "O Sovereign LORD, must I be defiled by using human dung? For I have never been defiled before. From the time I was a child until now I have never eaten any animal that died of sickness or that I found dead. And I have never eaten any of the animals that our laws forbid." "All right," the LORD said. "You may bake your bread with cow dung instead of human dung." Ezekiel 4:12-15

"No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may be admitted into the community of the Lord." Deuteronomy 23:2

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." Deuteronomy 13:7-12

Yes, the writers for God's word will be able to show you how the God they claim to be perfect is not perfect and just an extension of imperfect man's mind. If you read the bible with an open mind that is logical and rational you will see this for yourself. It is only when we make excuses for God that God is relieved from being a true God.

In the OT it says God is a 'jealous God' and requires worship.

"You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their father's wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation" Exodus 20:4-5

Once someone 'requires' anything outside themselves the persons peace will be disturbed. Yet the popular belief that God is perfect...the two (jealousy and perfection) don't go together. In addition such a God would not pass the peace test. If the God did not receive worship the God's peace would be disturbed from having demands and not getting those demands fulfilled. Then the God would have its peace disturbed even further by torturing the person for everlasting eternity since that person did not provide the worship the God demanded. Does all this smack of a perfect being, perfectly at peace or just man impersonating God

See:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0

You see, many people do with religion and their religious fixations the same as the compulsive gambler does with their fantasy.

Excerpt From: Gamblers Anonymous pamphlet "The dream world of a compulsive gambler." A lot of time is spent creating images of great and wonderful things they are going to do as soon as they make "the big win."... No one can convince them that their great schemes will not come true. They believe they will, for without this dream world, life for them would not be tolerable.

The truth is that which does not change. Man made religion is always changing. This phenomena of putting a spin on truth goes back to the earliest formations of the church when it was voted on by presumptuous individuals as to how to describe God and the trinity. You see it was all voted on and the proponent that had the 'best spin' on it got the credit for Nicene Creed. But in reality no one has a clew about this subject. Want a modern day example of such spiritual sickness, spin and lies?

"Roman Catholic Church Considers Abolishing Limbo Theory" A commission that met at the Vatican last week is expected to recommend to Pope Benedict XVI that the teaching of limbo be dropped. The Roman Catholic Church may abolish the concept of limbo – the place some Catholics believe the spirit of babies go if they die before being baptized

Snip from: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20051209/22492.htm

But it is impossible to have a rational discussion with most religious devotees when they insist on irrationality as their first line of defense. We are rational beings, logical beings, yet belief in God can only come about through irrational, non logical thought. Would a God that created rational, logical beings require such beings to follow irrational fantasy in order to believe in him? An example? While discussing fossils and ancient coal with a Christian he claimed that fossils and ancient coal are not really old and 'planted by the devil' to trick people from believing in God? this also recalls the book of Enoch, a book that was left out of the bible by the powers that decided what went into it when it was first formed. This book described many fantastic claims about how Eve was tricked by the devil masquerading as an angel. Would God create such subterfuge as planted fake fossils in order to trick his loved ones only to condom them to burning and torture for all eternity in hell because they cannot find out the rational and logical truth? Yes, such an unjust God would if your God is that of a sickly, delusional, religious devotee that believe is such fantasy.

Even when we discuss the story of Jesus, is it rational for God to have to kill his only begotten son in order to forgive us? What do we do when we forgive another? Do we kill our mother, son or daughter in order to forgive another person? Yet, Christians cling to this fantasy. Jesus was never born on December 25 and in fact there is no evidence Jesus was ever born at all. Christians adopted Christmas from the pagan December 25 holiday in order to promote their own agenda, just as they did with Halloween.

For further discussion of the Jesus myth see:

http://www.vexen.co.uk/books/jesusmysteries.html
http://www.atheists.org/christianity/myth.html
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/fabrication.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_as_myth
http://home.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.htm
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/7748/106446
http://www.abc.net.au/religion/stories/s1517078.htm
http://www.atheist-community.org/library/a...read.php?id=700
http://www.christianorigins.com/goguel/
http://www.bede.org.uk/price1.htm
http://www.objectivethought.com/atheism/jesusmyth.html
http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/jesus.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical...icus/jesus.html
http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/creator/jesusmyth.htm
http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/ori...hristianity.htm


"Theology is a superstition - Humanity is a religion" - Robert G. Ingersol


BTW, what does work if all religion is created man made fantasy? See my previous discussion of this topic: http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0





Good Luck,


V (Male)

Agnostic Freethinker

http://www.agnosticforums.com/god-talk/220...pprove-god.html