That is still not the same as BEING everything.

Son if you are advocating the bible calling this 'god's word , gods' plan you arent spreading love , not the love I am speaking of, unconditonal and i have read for many of you this is jsts to lofty and hard to beleive a god that actually loves has no limitations no rules no requirements..


i know this is hard to understand son you don't have to be no a certain way to be excepted by me, i see you are giving what you have been taught is your best. and true for you... there is vvalue in every person and opinion even the ones i disagree with... possibly standing up to me is good for you, sometimes those we dislike the most help us the most. look for that son loook to the value in this dialogue..... most of my freinds i disagree with that is a place you get too when you are comfortable in your beleifs you in turn are comfortable with all others beleifs.....


you can live how you want and I intend to live how i want, there is no right or wrong just what works and what doesn't as we decide based on our life experinces......

No I i'm sorry to disaapoint you but son i would want you to be who you are i'd insist on it, i could never profess to know what is best for you nor would i be so arrogant as to try to tell you, i except you as is and if i didn't I'd tell you to put me on ignore..... i see past the dogma son.........its not the end of the world....

we are on a forum that discusses important issues ones that i find valuable and interesting, its not personal to me,its exciting and inspirational...In my everyday life i use my life to embrace the things i find important i am to busy worrying about me to be worriing about what another is doing, i am the change I wish to see not you....i am clear on that ....

now for the hundredth time this is not personal stop trying to turn yourself into a victum/martyr, you are too beautiful of a person to be self effacing.... so discuss your beliefs, i'm listening , i'm interested i don't need to agree don't expect me too okay.. or need me too........


i bet we define tolerance very diffenrtly, it means I understand you not agree with you... i have been you????

The bible is the word of god, in your faith Son?


Acts 17:28

Psalm 139:5-15

Ephesians 4:6

Romans 11:36

Jeremiah 23:24

II Chronicles 2:6

I Kings 8:27

Here are the passages you posted. I am using "The Message" translation because it does such a good job of providing the verses that provide context around the verse and is written in a more contemporary grammar.

Acts 17:28
24-29"The God who made the world and everything in it, this Master of sky and land, doesn't live in custom-made shrines or need the human race to run errands for him, as if he couldn't take care of himself. He makes the creatures; the creatures don't make him. Starting from scratch, he made the entire human race and made the earth hospitable, with plenty of time and space for living so we could seek after God, and not just grope around in the dark but actually find him. He doesn't play hide-and-seek with us. He's not remote; he's near. We live and move in him, can't get away from him! One of your poets said it well: 'We're the God-created.' Well, if we are the God-created, it doesn't make a lot of sense to think we could hire a sculptor to chisel a god out of stone for us, does it?

I don't see how this passage is an issue.

Psalm 139:5-15
1-6 God, investigate my life; get all the facts firsthand.
I'm an open book to you;
even from a distance, you know what I'm thinking.
You know when I leave and when I get back;
I'm never out of your sight.
You know everything I'm going to say
before I start the first sentence.
I look behind me and you're there,
then up ahead and you're there, too—
your reassuring presence, coming and going.
This is too much, too wonderful—
I can't take it all in!

7-12 Is there anyplace I can go to avoid your Spirit?
to be out of your sight?
If I climb to the sky, you're there!
If I go underground, you're there!
If I flew on morning's wings
to the far western horizon,
You'd find me in a minute—
you're already there waiting!
Then I said to myself, "Oh, he even sees me in the dark!
At night I'm immersed in the light!"
It's a fact: darkness isn't dark to you;
night and day, darkness and light, they're all the same to you.

13-16 Oh yes, you shaped me first inside, then out;
you formed me in my mother's womb.
I thank you, High God—you're breathtaking!
Body and soul, I am marvelously made!
I worship in adoration—what a creation!
You know me inside and out,
you know every bone in my body;
You know exactly how I was made, bit by bit,
how I was sculpted from nothing into something.
Like an open book, you watched me grow from conception to birth;
all the stages of my life were spread out before you,
The days of my life all prepared
before I'd even lived one day.

Ephesians 4:6
4-6You were all called to travel on the same road and in the same direction, so stay together, both outwardly and inwardly. You have one Master, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who rules over all, works through all, and is present in all. Everything you are and think and do is permeated with Oneness.

Romans 11:36
33-36Have you ever come on anything quite like this extravagant generosity of God, this deep, deep wisdom? It's way over our heads. We'll never figure it out.

Is there anyone around who can explain God?
Anyone smart enough to tell him what to do?
Anyone who has done him such a huge favor
that God has to ask his advice?

Everything comes from him;
Everything happens through him;
Everything ends up in him.
Always glory! Always praise!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Jeremiah 23:24
23-24"Am I not a God near at hand"—God's Decree—
"and not a God far off?
Can anyone hide out in a corner
where I can't see him?"
God's Decree.
"Am I not present everywhere,
whether seen or unseen?"
God's Decree.

II Chronicles 2:6
5-10 "The house I am building has to be the best, for our God is the best, far better than competing gods. But who is capable of building such a structure? Why, the skies—the entire cosmos!—can't begin to contain him. And me, who am I to think I can build a house adequate for God—burning incense to him is about all I'm good for! I need your help: Send me a master artisan in gold, silver, bronze, iron, textiles of purple, crimson, and violet, and who knows the craft of engraving; he will supervise the trained craftsmen in Judah and Jerusalem that my father provided. Also send cedar, cypress, and algum logs from Lebanon; I know you have lumberjacks experienced in the Lebanon forests. I'll send workers to join your crews to cut plenty of timber—I'm going to need a lot, for this house I'm building is going to be absolutely stunning—a showcase temple! I'll provide all the food necessary for your crew of lumberjacks and loggers: 130,000 bushels of wheat, 120,000 gallons of wine, and 120,000 gallons of olive oil."

I Kings 8:27
27-32 Can it be that God will actually move into our neighborhood? Why, the cosmos itself isn't large enough to give you breathing room, let alone this Temple I've built. Even so, I'm bold to ask: Pay attention to these my prayers, both intercessory and personal, O God, my God. Listen to my prayers, energetic and devout, that I'm setting before you right now. Keep your eyes open to this Temple night and day, this place of which you said, "My Name will be honored there," and listen to the prayers that I pray at this place.
Listen from your home in heaven and when you hear, forgive.

When someone hurts a neighbor and promises to make things right, and then comes and repeats the promise before your Altar in this Temple, listen from heaven and act accordingly: Judge your servants, making the offender pay for his offense and setting the offended free of any charges.


I expect that you were trying to say that these verses show that God is everything, but I don't see it. He is everywhere, He is NOT everything.

And to answer your question, Yes, in my personal spiritual belief, the Bible is God's Word.

An interesting interpretation of the scriptures Iams. Especially the way it is worded.

competing gods?



"The God", implying that there may be other gods?


The use and placement of the words changes the meaning of the original in this paraphrase of the generally accepted version.

Its as if I quoted MLK as saying "I have an idea....." as opposed to "I have a dream...."




What did god use to create everything? If there was nothing NOTHING but god, where did the material to create EVERYTHING come from?

Ephesians 4:5-6 (English standard version)
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Gw we are on the same page ....WE ARE ALL ONE....

True Sheri. The one thing we all hold in common, faiths aside, is human beingness. We all come from the same unknown source, some choose to name god. However, as I see it, that would not serve most believers because then they could not invest themselves in denominational bias. Because to believe god is everywhere (omniscient), which means in all things created, one would have to face the fact, as a believer, that when they apply prejudice against anyone for being who they are, they're hating god that is within.

The kingdom of god is within, so says the "word". So if god resides in the kingdom, then god lives within. Did jesus not "say" this?!
I think he did, according to the bible that is said to be gods "word". And as prejudice is rampant in the bible, under the ordinance of god, what a quandary it is to find this within the word: I John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Makes one wonder, especially one of the atheist persuasion, if this is the new testament, what that hate by god in the old, when he exercised that prerogative according to plan, was thinking. When he is the one and only god, as he killed all others that worshiped other gods, when those god's must be the one and only god. And is it not hate that compels one to enslave their brother, because they see them as unequal and as such un-entitled to freedom as one would want for themselves?! Is it not hate when one rapes women, that but by the "grace of god" would be one's sister , daughter or mother!? Is it not hate that exercises oppression, racism, class-ism, and all other isms that plagued the world then and now. And what is hate but ignorance, that we are all one!? And what is it, that calls itself god, that claims it is : the father god of all, who is over all and through all and in all, when it exercises it's prerogative according to plan and kills by proxy any one(s) of the all, it chooses, because it can?!

All things considered, I thank "god" I'm an atheist.

"how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"


i particularly am drawn tot his scrip...

how does one know of anothers divinity or their own if they deny any aspect of it in their brother... they do not......intolerance, bigotry, racism, calling another wrong and unworthy is not 'godly' it is of man born of mans ego...


I'm often reminded of the teenager who 'knows it all' yet in its all knowing knows nothing, the very fact that they 'know it all' closes off all further learning and growth....


the last attempt to bring credibility to a false doctrine is to say i have a personal relationship with 'god' the I'm special , i'm chosen , the folly and play ground of the ego....


We are all one no part of life is more viable or important than another all of life exists side by side in congruency with the all, albiet it isn't decorated in visions of granduer and accolades wrapped in greatness and superiority and noone is called special, no I'm afraid tehr is not names in lights jsut akowing htat it all flows as one ...for this many will shun their brother call him the evil one, exalt thereselves adn call this 'gods plan '.....and so the relgious regime lives on.....If one does not go within one goes without.....



GW i loved your post it was beautiful....

They are not failures. Peter was used by God to accurately predict the coming of people like you in the last times:
Look at this.

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I love how when people make sense discussing their own ideas all of sudden someone throws in five pages of quoted scriptures. God bless free thinkers...

Hi son
I just came back to the forum. interesting conversation. I like to refer to your statement that you believe in the bible albite we have discovered that sometimes you read it liturally and other times you take it symbolic or have your own translation for what is standing ther. No reason to feel bad; most people do that...according to what they REALLY believe!
Now her I want to send you averb or what ever you may call it and I like your oppinion if that was written or inspried by God? Because this is what our mAN were made to believe for as long as woman were not allowed to read. Then it was taken out the bible;for obvious reason...
..AND I QUOTE...
ECCLESIASTICUS 42/12
DO NOT STARE AT ANY MAN FOR HIS GOOD LOOKS,
DO NOT SIT DOWN WITH WOMAN.
FOR MOTH COMES OUT OF CLOTHES,
AND WOMANS SPITE OF WOMAN
BETTER MAN'S SPITE THAN AWOMANS KINDNESS:
WOMAN GIVE RISE TO SHAME AND REPROACH.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............??????????????????????????????????????/

hI uNIVERSAL OVERRIDE.
i HAVE BEEN GOING TROUGH A FEW PAGES AND i MUST ADMID i DONT READ ALL THE QUOTATIONS OF BIBLE VERSE ECT WHEN THEY ARE SO LONG. i JUMP THEM AND READ TE SHORTEN NOTES. I JUST WATED TO SAY THAT i LIKE YOUR STYLE; SHORT AND SWEET. I THINK I HAVE TO LEARN THAT TOO, SINCE MY ENDLISH IS NOT SO GOOD, AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE MISUNDERSTAND ME FOR THAT REASON. I ALSO WANT TO TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE THINKING ALONG MY LINES. kEEPIT UP AND SPARE ME TO SPEAK SO THAT I DONT OFFEND ANYBODY BY MISTAKE...

Isis, I love it when people try to tell me what I believe or pretend to know why I do or say something. There are ways in which theologians can decide if a passage is literal, or symbolic, or poetic, or narrative. Most of those methods have to do with the context of the passage. It is unfortunate that people seem to think that if you say you believe the Bible is God's Word then you believe it is all literal, failing to take into account the various literary styles that are obvious especially when you read it in Greek or Hebrew (I don't read it in these languages but my best friend does along with reading it in Latin and German). I do not just rely on my interpretation of the Scriptures, I'm intelligent enough to know that I'm better off using resources and experts.

Context is immensely important when studying the Bible because God intended the Scriptures to be clearly understood by the people of the culture it was written in, and so, in order for us to have a clear understanding of its message we need to understand the verse in relation to the passage it is a part of, the book it is a part of (remember, originally these books/letters were not separated into chapters and verses), the original audience for the book/letter, the language including grammar, syntax, sentence structure, correct meaning of words, implication of particular words/phrases in the language, what covenant existed between God and His people at the time of the writing, and quite a few other requirements. As you can see, there is an incredible depth of study required to correctly place Scripture in context, not something to be taken on lightly which is why I like to rely on resources and experts.

It is because of the importance of truly knowing the context of Scripture and the dangers of not doing it correctly that James admonishes "Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." (James 3:1)



You may want to look at the citation again. There is no book of Ecclesiasticus in the Bible, there is no Chapter 42 in the Book of Ecclesiastes (which is the closest named book to what you wrote) and there is no verse 42 in Chapter 12 of Ecclesiastes, so I have no idea what you are quoting. If it isn't in the Bible then it really has no bearing on what I believe about the Bible. If you cited this wrong please post the correct citation.

I would dare say you do. Because you certainly presuppose yourself to do the same unto others, when you tell them what you believe and impart an attitude that that is somehow superior to that which all others hold as truth.

Certainly you have claimed to like to learn what others think about matters of faith and spirit. And yet, reading you, it is my belief that you do this, not to glean an understanding of others belief (or lack there of) but rather so as to bolster your own resolve in believing your faith is superior to theirs. And then you take that self-assurance and attempt to prove it by using it's articles and scriptures to impart others are wrong in the faith they hold as personal and to themselves. And when your scripture are proven not to be as that which you understand, and impart as your sense of god righteousness, you refuse to face it. Case in point the "Omniscience" issue, earlier.

I think you imagine this site is a platform, by which you might bring some to your god. However, this is first and foremost a community forum, not a church or environment that ascribes conversion. And given you are here exampling your faith/belief and what it means, through those articles by which you attempt to imply others are wrong, for not believing as you do, it provides evidence of the kind of god you think to speak of and for, in your hopes of bringing others to "him".

And I'll tell you that if a god , creator of all that exists, wise unto all things, present in every place, imparts to it's faithful it's intolerance of others for who they are and how they feel about the intangible inspiration some call god, and as such inspires the same of it's faithful, it is no god example for anyone that omniscience accredits prejudice and intolerance as requisite to it's ideal of righteousness.

One would then be better served to believe in nothing, than to believe in anything that inspires separatism as holy.

So, when I tell others what I believe I'm being presumptuous? So, are you presumptuous when you tell others what you believe? When have I ever told anyone that what they believe is wrong without pointing out where their error is (and I only do this if someone is quoting Scripture or saying what they think Christians believe)

First, I do like learning from others, but that doesn't mean I'm going to adopt their beliefs, and it certainly doesn't mean I'm just going to learn without questioning.

Second, the omniscience issue has still not been resolved. I have yet to see any Scripture quoted that, when looked at in context doesn't deny the idea that God is everything and everything is God. I'm not going to simply accept something which I know to be wrong. I'm still learning from people.


How is my talking about what I believe and correcting misconceptions about Christianity any different than what anyone else posting on these forums does? I'm sure that if a Wiccan noticed someone misquoting or misstating their beliefs they would try to correct the error, just like a Buddhist would or an atheist would. If you don't want me correcting your errors then stop posting or do some research.



I have said several times before in other threads that Christianity is an exclusivist belief, there's one way, not many, that is the belief.

Son Gw has not stated her beleifs other than to share wisdoms that are common to anyone and easily recognizable they need no mouth piece or scipture quoting , you apply them they work , or you apply them they don't...


outside of religion the abrahamics noone is pimping a beleif structure because they have remembered that we are all god/life/love what ever you wnat to call it, you have not remebered that and still are clining to being special and chosen and exclusive , the ego identification , its easily observable, alot of us don't even ask the other what they beleive it doesn't matter as becausee we see them for who they really are The beloved, oneness, divine gods or goddessess and its beautiful. .you have so many limts you aren't seeing that is all, its not taht serious , we understand you , Be who need to be son , walk your path but its jsut your path its not anything more than a fear construct..

again if its works for you great but for many it doesn't they have reconnected with thier true selves and see relgion in its persepctive that is exclusive divides , don't you notice you have alot of conflict unless its with other relgious people??Pa doestn' irish doens't 101 doesn't etc etc...., we want to get along with you and we have been trying to encourage you to make room for us too we get you now try and get us....post after psot GW is very kindly trying to help you ....., we all know you are relgious and except that ...

No one woudl ever tell you not to quetion but how are you quetioning, your questions already have the answers if they don't you dismiss the data thats not growth...do it if you choose but know there is a difference.....

WHAT!?

Just as i thought .."shrugs'

I understand. I sometimes have trouble understanding what Sheri is typing as well, I don't think she's the best typist. No offense, Sheri.
But it's definitely worth it to read carefully and get the message. I always enjoy her posts.

thanks, MM i know my typing sucks and as son says my syntax too,
it does require some getting used too...Tthanks for giving me an extra once over MM....

Thanks for being honest. I did not expect you ta have this in your bible. I have 2 bibles with in in. This book, along with the book of wisdom, book of Tobit, book of Enoch and a few others haven been taken out the bible I dont know how long ago.
The book of Enoch was taken out 1000 years ago, and when we read it then we know why. Because Enoch predicted his own return as none other then Jesus, and he predicted that the last 12 sheppards (Apostles) will mislead more of Gods Sheep then anybody before them.
The book of wisdom lets us know that Wisdom: she is the Holy spirit of God. I dont need to tell you who did not want woman to know that they are in the image of the Holy spirit, or?
The book of Tobit has the earliest marriege seremony in it, and it did NOT involve the help of a priest! So guess why it had to go?

And the book of Ecclesiasticus...when woman start reading the bible themself, they shurely would not have made it their favorite book after reading this crapp....or what do you think?
Now please tell me, who had the right toke ANYTHING out the bible, if it was written or inspired by God?

I misss this about the omnipresents of God...ect, and I dont like reading whole scriptures on the net, I have my own bible's. I aggree with you that God (who is not an old man sitting on some claud, sending us here and then the devil to bring us to fall, so that he can fry us in eternal hell) is omnipresent. For in the beginning there was only God. So the only materie he had to create us from is himself. God is light and he is love, right? For matter of visiulizasition we might picture him as a big, big light exploding into millions of sparks, each one representing US, a piece of God himself. Do you sincerely believe that God would burn himself or a piece of himself in eternal hell?