I will include here a couple of comments from recent threads which made me think. What about you? Has god really removed himself from among us, if he ever existed? Do people still experience the real and personal relationship that appears to have once existed between them and god? Does god still intervene miraculously on earth. Any honest thoughts are welcome.

since God no longer interacts with humanity in the way in which he did in the Old Testament.

Perhaps this is why we don't see the overt presence of god as described in the bible. Perhaps the supernatural CPS has fostered us out to someone else who knows better?

I said this earlier today but think it is relevant here, God interact on a more personal level today than in Old Testament times as I believe we are close to the end time.

I cannot prove my reality to you because that is not possible, the evidence I have is of a personnel nature, which is what is meant when a Christian speaks of a personal relationship with God. I can tell you that the God I know is very active very much involved in His creation in a loving way, He would never force Himself on His creation but waits patiently for every individual soul to return to Him. He approaches each soul in a way that is unique to each of us and in a way that is best understood by the individuals need.

That is why the written words of scriptures convey different messages to different people some need to be approached in a gentle loving manner while some others need a sterner aggressive approach. In my case He approached me with both love and a lot of humor as well as intellectual knowledge because He new what would work best for me as an individual.
There is a purpose in our individual personality traits and the creator loves us because of this uniqueness, in fact the angels are jealous of these differences that God has imparted within mankind.

Irish

*applauds*- thought to what you said in the beginning.... what do you interpret the end times to consist of?

Actually, that is kind of how I perceive it also. The only difference is I don't see god as a he or even a being for that matter. It is just the life force around us presenting itself, it is up to us to interpret it and to do what we feel is best. As far as 'what we feel is best' is right or wrong, I cannot ultimately say. And I cannot faithfully say that what we do here on earth has any effect on our afterlife, if there is one which we can be consciously apart of. I'd like to think it does matter(at least what we do here matters here) and that there is an afterlife, and I will continue to strive to be a better person regardless, but the truth is--I don't know and that's ok with me. That is what makes learning fun.

The last generation of the restored Israel as a nation is completed, the fig tree is producing its last fruit. Or maybe at fifty it is my own demise I see.
I hope for the sake of my grandchildren I am wrong. It’s only a gut feeling, for no one knows the day or hour.
Irish

Arty you have already gained one thing most important in this life and it will be a legacy for others to follow.
You do not realize it yet but you are truly blessed.
Irish

beautiful arty just beautiful....

Thanks Irish, that really means a lot.
You're not so bad yourself

Thanks Sheri.

I am afraid that the end times are near. Many signs are present including the generation that saw the refounding of Israel told about in the bible. Even if we escape nuclear war, global warming will soon get us.

Thanks for your opening comments Irish. They resonated quite strongly with me. I read them , but deliberately didn't reply immediately, because i wanted to see how others responded. I can empathise with your impending mortality and being 50 plus, also. I don't like to make judgements about judgement day because so many generations have invested so much in it and been so disappointed. All have been certain that the signs point directly to their time and many have created complex numerological and prohetical systems to justify their choice. As you comment in a later post "No one knows the hour or the day," and i think it is meant to be that way, for sound logical reasons as well as theological ones. Thanks, also, to the other posters so far.

Mr walker i suppose at some point i my life I may of put some thought into my death, but truthfully I look forward to the moment and I know I will reach a point when i'm ready to let go, i want to eventually call it a day doen't everyone.... my grandfather died of cancer and he knew he was gonna die a year before he did and i spent alot of time with him and we discussed death and what ever fears or concerns i may of had are gone, my grndfather gave me the gift of how wonderful the death experince can be, he really embraced it and shared it with me....i have been fortunate enough to have met others who have showed the same joy and changed lives, so often the dying stay to comfort the living.... i am with arty whats important is this moment and using life now to be the best i can be and strive to be better....i sometimes think I'm wierd becasue so many are worried about death and I'm just not, i don't know why nor do i really care, the i don't know works for me...lol...maybe not doing hte whole fear construct thing helps 'shrugs'

I think god is still here for the people who need him in their lives, someone to blame in bad times, someone to praise in good times...someone to guide them through life.
Personally my bad times were caused by myself and so are the good times......me and only me.
No one on this planet can literally say they have met god or actually talked to him,walked with him, seen him, but if they feel that they have and it helps them through life then he is still here.
This spoken by an athiest as you would label me.
Truth be known....no one knows.
Peace, Gator

Thanks Supra sheri. I can't really argue with any of the points you made. Both as a complete unbeliever, and since i met god i have always tried to make the most of my life, and i have never feared death. After all, as a non believer, the worst it could be was the non- existence experienced before my conception; and as a believer the same is true, but the best case scenario is a real hoot. To swampgator I am not so sure about your statement that no one has literally met god, walked with him or talked with him. I think many people may have. This is one of the reasons i posed the opening thread. Does god no longer walk with us, or are people who have this experience too scared they will be labelled crazy to talk about it. I mean, if you meet a ghost or an alien, you are likely to talk about it and probably gain some celebrity status, but if you meet and talk with god or an angel you either keep your mouth shut, or run the risk of being thrown into the "loony bin". This may be partly the desire for organised religions to maintain control over their believers, through pretending to be the only conduit to god, and partly the historical precedents on how we treat outsiders to any common belief. Anyway, I never talked to any one after my first contact with an angel, and it was only a series of more contacts and miracles, over many years, that led me to a personal relationship with god and a re-wiring of my entire belief system, including the acknowledgement of everyday miracles, angelic protection and divine intervention. Many of these are manifestly not hallucinations, as they have occured with independent witnesses and allowed me to take actions to save my life. I would really like to know if others have experienced anything like this, or heard of those who have. I know there are a number of books about angelic intervention. Of course without my own experiences, i would have thought that these people were either deluded, or pushing some form of religious agenda. I am npt even sure that the entity i know is a "religious" creature, but it is clear that those who meet"him" perceive him to be so, and that he takes a positive and protective interest in at least one humans life, in much the same way that many earlier "religious" writers describe, which leads me to believe he will do the same for others, if they will allow "him" to.

Well. I would like to meet God. There's a lot of things that I would like to do or believe in. I can't even count them. There's just to much that I want to do and that I want to believe in. But it's hard to believe in the stuff I want to believe in. Because I've never experienced them for myself. And because of our society. I just don't know if I'll ever beable to believe in or do the stuff I want to do. Because I don't know when or even if our society will change from their ways.

Why are the angels jealous of us humans?

What do we have. That they don't have?

God is the star light that guides the moths through the night, and as long as we can see the stars in heaven above us, God will always be with us all.

(Waiting for True to find this )

That is a poetic and pleasant image bella. I am going to assume it was meant as a positive analogy, but I can't help wondering; if you extended it a step further, what do you see happening to any moth which actually reaches/makes contact with a star?

Why are the angels jealous of us?

I don't get what you guys are saying. Please explain. Thanks.

Because God gave favors us above the angels. He gave us an entire planet, free-will, etc. Angel's a forced into an eternity of servatide. This is also why Satan tortures us in Hell...because he hates us.

Imagine if your dad gave your brother everything he ever wanted and let him do anything he wished...but your brother disrespects your Dad and does the opposite of what he says. Now you do whatever your Dad wishes. Imagine that your Dad made you look after your brother and tend to his needs...and be a servant to your brother. In the end your a better son but your brother inherets the family bussiness while you work the regester.

Wouldn't you be a little mad?

If I where an Angel I wouldn't think that Human's deserved God's good graces or entrance into heaven.

Ok. Are the Angels bad or are they good? Just because their mad doesn't mean their bad? Or does it? Please help me out here. Thanks.

Well I don't believe in good or bad just perspective and opinion. But the Angel's are still on God's side they just disagree with they way God treats us and favors us above them. The angel's are still the "good" guys because they didn't join up with the oposition. It would also differ depending on each angel's opinions on the matter, I'm not saying that they all hate us. heir love for god outweighs their hatred for us. Legend goes that after GOD created us there was a war in heaven because Satan(Lucifer) and his pals didn't like how God favored us above the angels. Satan tried to take God's thrown but failed and was sent to hell with the rest of his pals. Where he now tortures us because he hates us that much.

I'm not sure how much of this is biblical canon though.

mr. walker i think the conditoned god of your beleifs is the 'gOd' you see and that seems to apply to any one...In your case it is in the form of angels and divine intervention, for some it may be a NDE or a quiet knowing a feeling etc a spirit guide a ghost etc...god means many things gOd is the generic term given to define alot of sacred 'special ' things is it a real diety, i do not partake of diety lore, do i think its possible to have an innrer kowing a inner truth a divine sense a intuitive connection to life, a unity sure, maybe gOd is all of it, life ,all potential, all possiblilty the unified field of everything as quantum physics is looking into these days....or god is the silence o fmeditaiton the soft breeze that ruffles your hair. life -god-love-its allt he same thing to me.

i am always puzzled by a person who say i have a personal relationship with 'god' then are asking for validation from others, if one is asking what god is, or how it fels or if its an angel or not, dosen't know and is looking to define themselves through others.....IMO for me one would be certain of this experince, if nothing lees and the certainty would be their answer one wouldn't be saying they have a relatinship with this religous diety if they did it would be obvious,,,thats the point to decide and define what life means to you, ...It seems far more important to express this knowiing or what ever you call it by living your life as a demonstrtion of our awreness..........
have you ever been around a buddisht they never tell you i have a relationship with self or G0d' they don't quote scripture what they are being is what they are and you feel it , it needs no introduction , one recognizes in another what they recognize in themselves and one shows you what they are aware of, it isn't rocket science or braille you'll be able to know if you are connected and know if the other guy is.......by being around them its observable, there is no mistaking it .........Is there this diety so many are worshipping i'd say NO, oneness all that is requires nothing because its is all things, i'd start from that point....But that is jsut me......

If god is still present on Earth it is a testament to gods wisdom that god has learnt how we are more amenable to subtle persuasion rather than bombastic brow-beating. I'm not so sure about us being close to the 'end times' - I'm no whippersnapper myself but I don't feel any sense of non-continuance and to be honest, I would not think god favours one nation, or people, over any other.

Some might jump on my opinion and say 'But god is omniscient, how can god learn?' Being all-knowing doesn't necessarily mean all-understanding. If god has learnt then that would be a point in god's favour as far as I'm concerned. When we sit down for a chat over a nice malt uisge beatha at the end of times I'll be sure to mention this.

Global warmings prognosis is that of the earth being flooded , covering the planet over75 percent with water from the polar snow caps.
God promised Noah he would not destroy the earth ever again with water. A rainbow was the sign in the sky to instill that promise,..So will we see A global flood probably not ,.. indicating God just might intervein before the global warming reaches those stages of the final world flooding.

God was feared in the old testament and the people wanted moses to be the one to talk with god, they were frightend by the sounds of thungering as God voiced his word to the isralites. Moses even tried to say to God , I have a stuttering lip and how could I announce to the pharoh if ,.. God reinforced him and said the holy spirit would talk through him, and not to worry about what to say.

New testament Jesus was born a man like the first perfect adam but remained perfect umongts a inperfect world,. and was crucifired by men but giving us a ransom for the defeat in ousting the devil out when he became king in heaven ,... as he awaits the final battle at the end times to figh t satan, the devil ,.... these last days , Irish was right no one knows the day nor the hour this will happen but indications are certain we are living in the most devastating times in all history. awaiting the day of armogetton, mankind along with God himself will regain the original plan and purpose for his creations a,ll of them, animals too and justice will prevail, as the winning side is god over satan, so unfortunatly the devil is the one roaming about the earth like a lion waiting for someone to devour,.. the angles at the time of the ousting of satan and his angles , fallen ones the ones in heaven say, woe to thoes on the earth ,.. because the devil is come down out of heaven and has but a short time to fool as many as possible , and keep those whom do not want the guidence of the scriptures to know god , his number one task. confusion death and suffering is why we all experience and it is due to Jesus ressurection and his words to the apostles saying he goes now but leaves us mankind a comforter , holy spirit, until the time of the end when micheal will fight the dragon,. micheal being the morning star another angel that represents the form of what Jesus as king sends forth as for battle.


As far as the angles being jealous, I know the fallen angles were jealous and still are,.. but the ones that worship and praise God, are the messengers God uses for his will to be done and in the scriptures as example, would come to those in a vision inspiring them to pen the word of God as they were told so by the angels that showed them visions from God.Usualy to my knowledge angels are happy to serve god. Fallen angels that sided with devil were jealous enough to want man to err and show god that we could not love him freely even if we had nothing , man would not love God ,.. and so he dared to pprove him wrong when he still was stationed in front of Jehovah himself and had a place in the high heavens with the rest of the sons of god stood,. free will brought iniquity in him and became a direct threat to the throne of God putting mankind as the test for faith and love with free will at hand, . needless to say I still hink god is waiting for allot of people to decide what they want ,.. if they could even be taught in another life , willing at least in the heart of man God sees,. He knows that events are going on now that are far from his wish to rid of, but in order to prove satan wrong wich by jesus he already lost , the devil is fierce in the time remeining and will come as a pleasing or good source,.. the bible is what is left for humanity and the comfortewr the holy spirit which is the life force of God , his active force. is here but he is not present like in the begining , but will be in times to come. satan is prince of this world, and jesus said that those who love the things in this world are not lovers of the things not of this world this world will come to pass so get out of her my people ,. a new earth and a new heaven are provided for those who choose god in their heart. MIND YOU THIS IS WHAT IVE COME TO LEARN THUS FAR IN MY LAST 30 YEARS OF STUDYING. READ THE BIBLE , PRAY FOR YOURSELF TO GOD , THAT IS WHERE YOU WILL FIND HIM AND THAT IS WHERE HE AWAITS YOU.

what you call god....well its all around you, even the body your within is a part of his idea of creation, the air,the nothingness,the stones the sticks. sounds everything is from his allowance of life...he maybe not directly hear but his essence and balance of karmic law is all that still stands of this omnius entity....

to be grateful that the non-exstance of you was brought forth to existence which you formed into your unique individuality is the most special gift you have been given....death or passing on is also a treasured event to happen to all, its emotionally challenging but necercary for you to ascend and continue to learn especially after leaving your fetal form of development and the mother earth which in turn is like a seed or egg if you will...to feel close or part of him would only be the result to bring you closer to his consciousness his works and ideals,the love and passion to create a life giving universe and all the wonders it holds and diversity....to wright from the heart about it would take forever...closer u feel only makes you yearn for more like a newborn babie wanting its mother... as you connect,ever closer the life pulse that beats forever in the world a little closer u become to god.

Is god here?
I say no.
Does anyone honestly know what god is?

Is it logical to refer to god as a...He, or to suggest god may have human emotions?

I do not use the human term...GOD.

It is but a vast collective energy responsible for this universe and possibly other or even all possible universes and existances, we do not know for sure.
It is not as a single consciousness as you or I. It is not a simple collective mind either.
I believe it is a enormously vast and powerful multi-compound collective mind, that operates on a level we have no hope of beginning to understand anytime soon.
I believe it gives us energy and we reciprocate energy back, in some way.

Yes I believe so... GOD the Almighty lives at number 58a on Chesterfield council estate..UK.
Not sure whether he's claiming benifits ..

Cadet, since you are talking about God and angels and Satan, I'm going to assume you are talking about the spiritual beings and places described in the Bible. If my assumption is correct, then your theology is wrong. Satan is not going to torture people in Hell. Hell is the place where he will be tortured for eternity. Satan will not rule in hell, he will be it's main prisoner.


Additionally, the angels do not hate us, they envy (without having it go into hate) the fact that God has given us a higher place in His creation than them, but they rejoice each time another person sees the amazing love that God for them and is expressed through His sacrifice to pay for their sins.

I am realistic on this. Moths cannot leave the atmosphere but each generation they can evolve and try to fly higher.
The real danger for them is fire in the night, a false star that will burn and consume them in confusion.
If they could think as we do then they would realize that a star will always be on a higher level above them and not on the same level with them.

But would that knowledge stop them from trying?

As long as they know there exists something above them then they know they can go higher if they figure out how, and that is good.

Angels envy us because God favors us over them?!? What are you going on about seriously? Does anyone ever take these concepts to the next level of thinking or just say 'yup thats what the Church said over a thousand years ago, not that I have anything to do that Church'?

God is all-loving but keeps angels as slaves, wow nice guy. They lack the free will that we have so they envy us, but they are free thinking enough to envy us?!? Oh except for Satan who disobeyed God and was cast into Hell and will be will be "tortured for eternity. Satan will not rule in hell, he will be it's main prisoner." So angels arent free but Satan rebelled, God is loving but keeps slaves and I assume must have given Satan the free will to rebel so he could be tortured for eternity? Sorry you guys are too much, it makes no sense, you say he's this and that but does the opposite, quick bring out "the Plan"! I know stories should be exciting and have a bunch of lively characters to keep things interesting but seriously this is supposed to be a spiritual foundation?

And then the purple two headed dog said to the talking fleas that attend him and said, "the humans have not brought their God a milkbone on this day and are acting wicked, I shall smite them with my potent doggy gas so they know that I am a jealous two-headed dog and the ONLY purple dog!"

Why is it that whenever someone says 'god' people assume its the Bible God? Like there arent hundreds of religions with their own gods. Cultural conditioning should be something people analyze in themselves, it might just shed some light on the concept that God is nothing new and is teetering on the edge of the deity dustbin of history, about to fall and land on Zeus lol. Not that Zeus isnt real too!

Are the Angels our brothers and sisters? If so. And their still on Gods side. Then I believe God should treat everybody fairly wether the person be an angel or a human. I mean wouldn't God want it that way. Most importantly wouldn't a parent of a child want it that way. To love each other equally no matter what. And not favor one over the other. I believe so. As long as they are on the good side of things and mean well. Correct me if I'm wrong.

God is learning. God is learning new things everyday. God is learning new things everyday from us his children.

Would I be right to assume that Satan is both the main prisoner and the ruler? Envy would have bin a better choice of word but you can't assume all the angels feel the same way. As in my example you can hate your brother while still loving him...you hate him for the obvious reasons but still love him because he's your brother.

Again who knows how much of this actual biblical canon? Or exepted by the church? Even if it isn't accepted it's safe to assume that this is how everything went down.

If you where an angel and God gave an entire planet to a bunch of ungrateful disrespectful humans and then had you send messages to them what would you feel? What would you do?

Well we use the term "God" for the christian god because thats the name he goes by in that religion...if he went by Bob we would call him so. Theres a difference bewteen "god" and "God" just like theres a difference between "moon" and "Moon"...sometimes we just forget to capitalize i guess. Here at UM it seems to be that when you say 'god" its default meaning is the christian god and if we where talking about any other religion we would call them by their respective names...like Zeus.

Well as this angel do I have free will? Am I free to feel envy and anger? Or did God give his angels the freedom to envy and despise but not the free will to do as they please, as has been said already? Cause that would have been really stupid.

But if angels arent free to do as they please how did Satan rebel? Thats my point, its been said that Gods angels envy our freedom so some began to dislike us, some rebelled, sounds like free will to me. It doesnt make sense. It sounds like people making things up as they go and pretending they are following some true story which sounds ridiculous.

Another problem I see in this story is that some angels rebelled because God gave "ungrateful disrespectful humans" an entire planet, so as punishment God gave Satan command of this planet?!? So now he does rule over us, so basically he got what he wanted, authority over these ungratefgul humans lol! Wow God must be stupid.

^I don't believe you'll find any scriptural backing for a war in heaven with rebellious angels - I wouldn't be surprised if that belief came to be church belief in a similar way that the idea of Hell as a place of fiery torment came into church teaching. Indeed, throughout the Bible, Satan is referred to as one who is under the command of God. I wouldn't say he's a servant, because he seeks to bring down that which God desires. But Job makes it clear that Satan is completely powerless but for God allowing him to act as he does - a prosecuting attorney, so to speak.

Of course, I could be wrong and there are passages taht speak of a war in heaven, but I can't recall any off the top of my head.

mr. walker i think the conditoned god of your beleifs is the 'gOd' you see and that seems to apply to any one...

I am sure that you are correct Supra. One can only interpret one's experiences through ones cultural filters; be they prior knowledge, experience, learned wisdom, reflection etc. As I have said before my relationship goes beyond belief, but other than that you are inherently correct. So extend my OP to ANY "gods." IE. is the entity, which i interpret through my filters as"god," no longer acting on earth through direct or personal intervention as much as it once did; for anyone, of any persuasion? Where are the druids establishing a real and personal connection? What has happened to the mithraists or the worshippers of Baal? In contemporary terms, is Gaea manifesting herself in real space and time to those who believe in her? I would like to hear from any one who has such experiences. They don't have to be believers in anything at all. My first contact occurred when i was a non-believer, and would have ridiculed anyone who had shared such experiences with me. What i find it difficult to believe/ accept is that my experiences are unique in this day and age, or even very uncommon. I suppose that they may always have been so, and that the accumulation of stories about "gods interaction with "men" from the greek and roman gods through to the abrahamic ones are really quite rare occurences which only reached such an accumulation, given a long period of time. I suspect, however, that more people refuse/ are no longer able, to recognise things in their lives as having any Miraculous aspect, or are simply too afraid of the social consequences to talk about them.

Mr. Walker possibly these are expriences that are just seen as natural, not a diety or in some cases some feel better labeling it all the above as you noted, As far as I'm concerned i think it is perfectly natural to have a relationship with self, (god) for those of you who feel better with this, it needs no validation , i jsut assume you are aware of your nature.... I have always felt intuitivey inspired since i can remember its just natural, so many i have talked to feel the same way, its no biggie ...

We just live from that awreness its who we are , label whatever you want certainly if it suits you.......... Note if one is hearing messages of fear and glloom and doom and of a negative nature and calling this enlightenment or divine one woudl know this is in error , no message free of limits would be of any way but one that lifts others up benefits the whole because you are and i am the whole, the oneness if you will That is what gOd is IMO the awareness you are one with life and its inherent and its natural to who we are sort of like breathing.......

this is a very important distinction, so possibly those that are claiming '(god) relationships or enlightenment are really not, not that they couldn't be at some point, or that there is some path to get this way or admitting of things which you aren't...blah blah... god/life/joy/unconditonal love are interchanegeable, so in that vein those claims would be dismissed sort of like benny hinn claiming healing etc etc... oral roberts asking for money.. as a human one must cultivate the ability to discern that which is real from that which is fantasy...... would be my opinion.....i hope this helps......

I was just re-reading the last few posts, and supra's last comment suddenly hit home. She doesn't believe that miracles, including the miracle of healing are possible. She does not believe that one can establish a real contact with god other than within ones self, and she believes that such things are fantasy. This probably summarises and epitomises the modern person's viewpoint, and I can sympathise, because it seemed the only logical possibility for the first 20 years of my life. It is almost impossible for people with such different world views to really comprehend the others viewpoint. Perhaps only personal evidence can change beliefs . I am not talking just about "god' talking in my head or even full blown "visual and verbal hallucinations,' I am talking about people who may have experienced WHAT PEOPLE LABEL THIS, certainly, but also have experienced physical and verifiable changes to objects on earth, or to the space time continuum, and have had these 'hallucinations' provide specific warnings of events which occured some time later, allowing people to survive where they otherwise would not have. These things happen. Once you know that they do, you have to go back and look at the written accounts of other people's experiences with a different perspective. You also have to look at the nature of both humanity and the universe with "new" eyes.

Yeah , I had a close and personal relationship with God last night.......it went something like this ..." Oh God , oh God , oh God , yes ,yes yes ......"
(no offense intended)...........

Bit of a back story for this one, Sorry.

I mentioned in one of my other posts that God had spoken to me a few times in my life, this is one of them:

When I became a member of my Church I helped with the Youth Club. The local 'gang of lads' attended and every week someone would come and tell us they had been beaten up by them as they went home. Since we never saw anything we couldn't do anything but we had no doubt they did bully the others. One week we were playing 'flag rugby', a non-contact game where basically you have to pull the flag out of the belt or waistband of the people from the other side. During this game the leader of the gang of bullies was standing with his back to the stage and his flag sandwiched behind him and the panelling. I decided that wasn't playing to the rules so I took a nice long run up and hit him from the side. I knocked the poor lad flying across the room (I did grab the flag as I did it though ). By the time his arms and legs had stopped flapping he was about 20 feet from where he started. Everyone in the room stopped moving and looked at him, a 6'2 medium build 16 year old lad sprawled on the floor, and then at me, a 5'6 small build 17 year old holding his flag in front of me. All at once they all fell about in fits of hysterics, even his gang were laughing. He got up and ran out the building shouting that he would kill me when he sees me next, his gang followed him trying to gag their laughter. We never saw him or the gang again at the church.
About 2 years later some friends and I started our own youth social club. As I was the only member of the Church it was my responsibility to lock up after all the kids and leaders had gone home. One week as I was just about to walk out the front door I heard a voice next to my left ear say 'Go another way, you are in danger'. I locked the door from the inside and walked back through the hall and into the church building and called my best friend who was a deacon at the church. I told him about the warning and asked him to pick me up in his car at the back of the church building. After he picked me up we drove round the front of the church and the gang of lads from 2 years ago were stood at the church gate smoking and drinking.

Can people say its all in my head, some brain cells going into overdrive, imagination, or some other psycho-babble, of course they can, but I can tell you without a doubt that God gave me a warning that night and saved me from at least, a serious beating .

Sorry havales, can't comment on whether your experience was a miracle, although it certainly seems to fit the category of a close encounter:)
Micklemass, the audible warning and the consequent changing of your actions to avoid possible harm are exactly the sort of experience I am talking about. It sounds as if you also had at least one witness to your experience, who can verify that it is not simply an after the event re-construction. Yes it could be coincidence (and those who don't believe in miracles can really only explain it in that way,) but my response is that if you are given an audible warning which changes your actions, and thus protects you from very likely harm or death, at least one rational response is that this was intervention by something with powers we usually attribute to a god or at least an "angel".

or, mr walker, just to our own "spidy-sense".

Yes, I think it was a miracle...What with 4 kids under 9 yrs old and pregnant with my fifth, my hubby would agree, it was a bloody miracle alright !!!!!!!

Oooops, sorry I forgot to mention I changed my username from Havales to Malakissmeni .....

Yes this is another possibility. I may be sensitive to certain things. In fact, this is true, and i seem able to perceive other non religious "paranormal' events on occasion. However, it does not explain the form the warnings take. They usually come in a form which is recognisable from biblical or other sources as a traditional messenger of god. Now it is also possible that this is just my cultural referents, constructing the message in a form i will find understandable and acceptable, so that I will take more notice of it. However, to accept that i, and others, have this para normal ability, that my mind shapes it in a culturally appropriate format, and then produces a full blown hallucination, indistinguishable from "reality" seems to cut across one of my favourite principles (that of Occam's razor), where the simplest possibility is most likely to be the real one. One also has to look at the pattern of events/occurences over about 35 years to help decide on their validity. And finally, there are the occasions where physical things have occured, like the power coming back on for a few moments at the same time that a bush fire warning told us that a major bush fire was coming was announced. A minute or two before this occured, i received an audible instruction to listen to the radio. I did, and as a consequence escaped, by minutes, an inferno that destroyed our house, along with about 100 others and took nine lives. My mind/ spidey sense could have given me the audible warning, but it could not turn on the power at that critical moment, when the one warning applicable to our location was given. On the other hand the power and radio coming back on at that one critical time for just a few minutes, could have been a coincidence, but then how could my mind have known and told me that the power was going to come on before it did. The power was out for a huge area. There was no way it could/should have come on again at that instant. Even major water lines had burst and buckled in the heat. Powerlines and transformers were out all over. My mind could not affect any of that. This is one of the instances over the years that have made me believe in a "god" who has a personal interest in me, and takes actions to protect me.

i think that when people think of a subject like this they look for something solid. proof. god will not grant absolute proof of existence. i believe in free will. after all, we all make a million choices every day, right? second, you cant judge gods work by merit. maybe something as simple as a second glance at a pretty girl that provides your family to you could pose gods will. maybe its luck. coincidence. i dont believe in coincidence. not relative to subjects that matter. i feel the presence of god occurs when things that shouldnt happen actually happen (like earths existence, for instance).

another things, do you think that its merely a coincidence that religion and the paranormal are the two things science cant explain?