Death, the word makes many cringe, squirm in discomfort, the child says to the beloved parent i don't want you to die and the parent says i'm not gonna die, don't say things like that, I hear this over and over..so what is this process and what is this thing called paradise, and eternality is it just wishful faithing ??the ultimate hoax...What about reincarnation, judgement day and the pearly gates .....


so whats all the fuss what is your take on the whole death thing?????

also I'd be interested in any wonderful experinces of those who have had the experince of sharing in the journey with one dying...

To me, death is a transition from one phase of existance to another.
The death of a family member or close friend is to be met with a touch of sorrow and a touch of joy and expectation. Sorrow that the loved one will not be present to share the rest of your journey, but joy that they have continued on their own journey; and expectation at the reunioun to come when we ourselves complete this leg of the trip.

My own death, when it arrives, will be met with (hopefully) a sense of having completed my tasks and fulfilled my duties here. Again, IMO, not something to be feared, but perhaps with a sense of melancholy (sp?) that I will be leaving my loved ones, for a time.

Someone once posted a saying that I took a liking to:
"When you were born, you cried and the world smiled at your arrival. When you depart, make sure you have lived in such a way that the world cries at your leaving, and you smile"

I think when I die I'll know for sure what's on the other side. All else is faith and conjecture because the human ego, in many cases, can't allow itself to imagine after this life, wherein it seeks to wrap itself in material possession for the sake of itself , there is nothing awaiting it so that it might continue on for eternity. Or, in the case of reincarnation, another chance back on Earth.

I think to that's what compels religions to impart the after life ideology. Be they christian, muslim, pagan. Many people just can not accept that when they die, it's all over but laying entombed forever, or disappearing on the winds after cremation. What I find fascinating though is how many religious persons will pray not to die, or will weep because they've lost a loved one . Why? If there's an after life far better than this!? Be it Valhalla, summerland, heaven, etc... ?


And do you remember that minister , Oral Roberts, years ago that milked the gullible believer congregation over and over, telling them , every time he had a new big dollar project in the works, that if he didn't make such and such amount of money, god was going to take him home?! OMG! I laughed so hard when I heard about that, as he stood at the altar and wept. Pleading to his congregants for that first million! God told me he's going to take me home!

Bye bye Oral. Isn't that a good thing!? Isn't that what christians live for? Dying and finding their souls before god and living in the heavens for eternity!? And yet, there he was in that expensive suit, in a church that cost a small fortune, broadcast live across the globe, begging for cash because to hear him tell it, god could be bought off from taking his preacher son to heaven. I wonder how many congregants actually caught the fact that what Oral was saying first is that god promised to murder him if he didn't come up with a million bucks!?

I think the idea of a salvation coincided with the advent of a messiah. If we look at the originators of say the Christian religion they were an oppressed people suffering under the rule and the tyranny of another race. There are alot of instances throughout history where this situation spawned the belief in a salvation giving messiah.

In each of these communities, a Messiah appeared for the illiterate farmers, shepherds, hunters and workers who were oppressed people in a land ruled by a superior force. In all these cases, the message was propagandized to unite them under one rule, one belief and one leader among themselves to stand up against the tyranny of the ruling class.

Its simple....a life ruled over by oppression, the oppressed develope the idea of a salvation. This idea or promise of a salvation allows them to perservere through a life of misery.....it gives hope where no hope is evident.

I would say that salvation is the soothsay of the downtrodden.

To encapsulate the idea of salvation into the idea of what happens when we die, well my own belief is that we do continue on with the energy that we die with. It is up to the individual to die free of regret, hatred, pain, negativity, self-reproach, sorrow, uneasiness, woe or worry. This would be accomplished throughout one's life. To die free of any of the afore mentioned sorrows would indeed be a salvation.

t


Chauc, in my sons school curriculim (9 years old ) in religious studies your post is exactly what he is learning about the idea of salvation, the middle ages life was so hard they created storys of paradises and such to feel better and the curriculim is very clear they were made up to make these people feel better, life so sucked the only solace they had was in the hopes of dying......
It stands out becasue my little son said "mom' i'd probably do the same if my life was that hard........these people had a rough go of it.....

Its common knowledge not ot say all history is fact but i can't help but wonder what a relgious person would say to this>>>that the salvation and wht not isn't really tru...unless they have a metaphorical meaning to what they are referring too?? I really don't know.....




I have a interesting story:

Recently a christian client of mine got word that her brother had lou Gerhigs and had a few months to live he had it longer than he was officially diagnosed, anyways she was devastaed, and felt she would need to comfort him since he wasn't christian, she spent alot of time in the hospital with him well he died very fast but the interesting part is what she told me , ( he wasn't relgious at all) she said he comforted her , he was so sick and all he cared about was helpiing her be at peace with his dying, she said she learned more from her brother about love and life and death in that short time than her entire religious experince and she was devout , she no longer is religious she left the church and is discovering a world of so many philosophys and i love seeing her so alive we have these amazing conversations and she said that she has no fear of death anymore religion really didn't help her and that her brother taught her that she is all she was seeking and when she talks of life now she is so alive and passionate its almost as if she woke up, she actually says she feels like she woke up from a dream....of course its one story....

And yet what an amazing story to carry with her all the days of her new life. No matter what happens in my life, I always look for something good on the other side of it all. Because it can't all be misery and despair, there's always something else, after the stuff hit's the fan, ya know!? Maybe , though her brother was taken from her life far to soon, what he left her with keeps him alive in that gift of seeing life as worth so much more than what she had imagined before. Maybe his dying is what gave her a reason to truly live her own life, her way. What an amazing legacy he gifted to her before he left.

Thank you for sharing that.

thanks GW i'm glad you appreciate this story, i was deeply moved too, i will be seeing her saturaday and i will tell her i shared her story she will love it, and i will share with her what you said, you really pegged it i think he inspired her to finally live her life i also forgot she found the ability to forgive her mother for years of hatred after her time with her brother, she says he was an angel, she is not the same person,her mother ended up dying a few months later and she told me she was so glad she had forgiven her and had time with her, you can imagine how much fun I'm having listening to her , i literally am moved and love hearing the story LOL....thanks for taking the time to read it woman....

from Hagakure

"The Way of the Samurai is found in death. When it comes to either/or, there is only the quick choice of death. It is not particularly difficult. Be determined and advance. To say that dying without reaching one's aim is to die a dog's death is the frivolous way of sophisticates. When pressed with the choice of life or death, it is not necessary to gain one's aim.
We all want to live. And in large part we make our logic according to what we like. But not having attained our aim and continuing to live is cowardice. This is a thin dangerous line. To die without gaining one's aim is a dog's death and fanaticism. But there is no shame in this. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai. If by setting one's heart right every morning and evening, one is able to live as though his body were already dead, he pains freedom in the Way. His whole life will be without blame, and he will succeed in his calling."

We all die. Some people spend so much time preparing for the inevitable that they forget to live. I feel were I to die this very second that I could say "even though I have not seen all there is to see in this world, I still have lived a full life." I hope everyone can say that when their moment passes.

Otherwise I'm not concerned with an afterlife, be it heavens, hells, limbos, or simply non-existence, I'll get what I have earned.

You can't have any pudding until you've eatin your meat! Your not dead yet, live while you can. Life is what passes you by when your worrying about death.

Quote Time!

"Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not."-Epicurus.

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."-Brendan Gill.

"Let me tell you a secret, something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment may be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be more lovely than you are now. We will never be here again."-Achilles, Troy.

I don't really give a shart if the thing I call me survives death. If not, I'll be unconscious, so it won't matter.

A guy named Gary E. Schwartz has put out a couple books on his empirical research into the question of life after death. Did a bunch of lab experiments on mediums to see if they could really talk to dead people.

Then there's a slew of books about reincarnation cases, which are really puzzling.

One thing is for sure: Either we survive death in some way, or we don't.

When I die I'm going off like an atom bomb, I hope to shake the foundations of this world and the next. I believe, from experience, that that tiny instant of eternity when you die may be the most important flash of the whole death-life transition. You feel regret or attachment and you are coming back, its what your mind wants and is prepeared for. If you can look to the next without longing and attachment for this life but strive for the next you advance, grow, level UP LOL!, etc, whatever happens.

I say from experience because I think anyone interested in what happens next and more importantly what your mind is ready and prepared for, and doesnt want to attempt a self-induced near death experience lol, should experiment with certain entheogens(I wont get into details and break any forum rules) that will make you feel like you are experiencing death. All your senses tell you that you are dying, the fear of the unknown starts to claw at you but this is a test, in my opinion you can say all you want while you are alive, healthy and breathing normally but when all your senses say you are dying, a different frame of mind comes with it and that is a good indicator of what you will be ready for when its curtain time.

I've had occasion to attend more than one death bed vigils. And I can say that while the liquid morphine might have had a great deal to do with the dyings state of mind, they were at peace when they passed. One lady spoke to friends gathered around her and then closed her eyes forever. One other gentleman spoke only briefly to close family members and then slipped into coma before he passed a few hours later. All that I've watched leave this world were deeply religious and not one exhibited anything I would call in any way, fear or reticence. They all were very peaceful and ready to take the next journey into what every they imagined awaited. No one cried, as they passed. It was an incredible feeling in those rooms as the heaviness of that moment affected those of us in attendance, more so than was discernible in those that were to die. At the time there was a great wall of emotion over everyone, yet when they died , for many of us, the tears stopped. As if in their leaving that body that suffered so much, they took with us our broken hearts at watching them leave us behind. Because somehow we knew , even if one didn't believe in an afterlife, which some of us in attendance did not, that now they were better for having left that ravaged body.

In my personal experience I can share that if anyone fears death, they have but to volunteer with a hospice program and witness what it means to die, by watching the process right before their eyes. I think I can say with relative certainty from my experience that almost no one shall ever be the same, after. It certainly gives one an appreciation for the time they have ahead of them. Especially if they are healthy and happy in any measure, to realize watching the dying, that life should be lived without regret. Because it doesn't serve a purpose when someone is in their deathbed, so living life while it's here is the blessing one can give themselves, before it's to late. I think that part really hit home when a man looked at me and said, don't give your life to your career. Get out and do something while you can. They were the last words he ever said.

My religion is about experience. I have the experience of death through my loved ones. I wasn't on morphine I know what I experienced during and after their passing. I will never doubt life goes on in some way after death. You think I believe what I do because I fear death, wrong I don't fear death at all, even if I knew that was it. I know first hand there are worse things than death, like extended suffering. The Universe is much more complex than we understand.