I watched a documentary called "forbidden wedding" on IFC about a parpalegic who was denied the right to be married due to a archaic Catholic law ....please take a moment to read the little article and post your thoughts on this...

http://www.dsq-sds.org/_articles_pdf/2002/...002_Fall_13.pdf


Vaticans view on gay marrige:


The Vatican launched a global campaign against gay marriages Thursday, warning Catholic politicians that support of same-sex unions was "gravely immoral" and urging non-Catholics to join the offensive.

The Vatican's orthodoxy watchdog, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued a 12-page set of guidelines with the approval of Pope John Paul II in a bid to stem the increase in laws granting legal rights to homosexual unions in Europe and North America.

"There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God's plan for marriage and family," the document said. "Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/28/...ain565450.shtml full article.....

in regards to the first,
Economia is a concept the RCC should adopt.
Really odd that the author would call the RCC the Orthodox Roman Catholic Church as well.

I saw this program last night, as part of Sundance channels "Doc Day." Having just finished watching the documentary about Madeline Murray O'Hare and "Godless in America".

It escapes me, what I saw in another documentary long ago, of the name of the christian sect that believes the catholic church is evidence of the devils kingdom being manifest on Earth, however if bigotry and discrimination are the domain of evil I'd say that creation speaks loud and clear from the seat of evil in Rome. And I don't think the fascist spiritual dictator that speaks to the largest denominational christian populace on earth cares that the rest of the world hears exactly what kind of god he and his flock worship and despise of certain of the human population , because it speaks so at it's prerogative and as part of it's plan, to levy discrimination and bias against certain of it's population.

To bad the secular authorities don't erect pyres and burn alive the despised minority under gods ordinance anymore. Then the smell of roasting blood and flesh lifting to the vault of heaven and pleasing god as it did in the old testament, could do so again. And the world could watch live on CNN. As they witness only the chosen that behave so, exercising their gods will as they are assured entry into heaven for being good catholics, because they obeyed so faithfully the god that hated certain of his creation and called it holy.

The answer is simple.
If you do not agree with Catholics then do not try to be a Catholic.
There will be no additonal tax, prison time, or death sentence for choosing not to be Catholic so there is no real problem here.

The answer is simple.
If you're quadrapalegic or gay catholic don't try to be free and equal to other catholics. So there is a real problem here.

I agree, don't join a 'club' if you can't accept the rules... even though some of the rules may be foolish.

It's foolish to think catholics "join" the faith. That's why one doesn't see them following behind the Witnesses, knocking on doors. The majority of catholic's are born into the faith. Or if one does join the faith, it's not a matter of entering the church, getting baptized and "poof" your in. It's a arduous process, before one is permitted to join because most are brought into the faith as part of family tradition.

That’s right! We should all have the right to join the KKK Catholics, blacks and Jews. It should not matter if we agree with what they preach and practice. We all should have the freedom to ware those nifty hats and robes and dance around those impromptu bonfires. Why should they have all the fun just because I was born Irish catholic?
Everyone should be given a pointy hat and a free membership no matter what they believe or where they were born.
Let the revolt begin!
Irish

Arty, this is a absurd , ridiculous rule, the rule should be dropped, to infer that the genitalia are property is a very primitive awareness...It saddens me yet another open season on discrimination and bigotry, poor guy , the catholic church jsut couldn't see their way to granting this mans wish...oy vey...

This iis a construct that says it is the almighty teacher on "Love"

Bella a question hon, do you find anything unexceptable, absurd ???????

The link doesn't work for me but I have never understood the need for gay people to get married in the church or whatnot.

I agree. If it hasn't dawned on the guy by now what a joke the church is, this is certainly a wake up call. Eventually most people will have their moment of absurdity in the church.

I like the subtlety of the, so what if you don't like it don't join mentality. Could at least explain why the whole world isn't catholic, but I digress. Saying that about these issues that are natural or exist by no exercise of free will at all, as in the case of paralysis, and the "godly" discriminations that are applied in the name of clergy that's suppose to be the Shepard to believer flocks, says it's ok for the church to claim it's been blighted by the public attention to priest pedophilia running unchecked in the church. Because if someone can be excommunicated for making their choices as a lay person, how is it clerics that get sexually aroused and rape children, don't qualify to get fired from their jobs!? How is it they get pardoned in a closet by another of their kind, with just the admonishing: don't do that again! And are then moved on their way to another parish. Where those priests and that flock, are unaware of what's coming into their midst. All so the one's that shunted the deviant out of their eyesight, don't have to look at the deviant in robes anymore. Screw the people over there, but not here pal!

And how is it that a paralyzed catholic man isn't permitted to Mary, because his phallus doesn't work?! Because he cant breed more catholics so that kind of thinking has a future in all places! But hey! If your catholic and are paralyzed, it's gods will. Just like it's his will that you can't have a life companion because your parts ain't up to the par god approves, so you can be happy while living life. In a chair. Unable to walk. Crippled twice by a pathology of the body, and the mind of those free to walk about and tell you you're not worthy because your in that chair!

But pray on it. Light a candle, throw in that cash donation for the wax. And live according to plan. So that when you die, and finally get out of that chair, you can enter heaven and meet the power that told you were worthless on Earth, but welcome home forever!

Now I know why I could never believe in the god of the catholic. Because of the example pope's set of what god is.

If bigotry is a sin, why is god the first sinner?

that is sad. All because of impotenece

That's about it! Agreed!

It is absurd Sheri. My point is, why would you want to be labeled a Catholic if you don't accept the teachings or you believe there are some hypocritical teachings? To me, it makes more sense to outright reject an establishment than try to change it. The ways of the church are well known and established, it is the person's fault to try to be accepted by an organization which they internally don't agree with. Its like trying to be accepted by the popular kids at school,lol.

Marriage carries a lot of theological significance in Catholicism. It's a sacrament right up there with the Eucharist and baptism.

But pray on it. Light a candle, throw in that cash donation for the wax. And live according to plan. So that when you die, and finally get out of that chair, you can enter heaven and meet the power that told you were worthless on Earth, but welcome home forever!..

Gw very well put, the above sums up the whole relgious construct for me...


101, As if you could only love with the private parts, how shallow ..I agree with you it is sad to ...


Arty, Oh i get it , the ole 'if you don't want to be my friend then i don't want to be yours either...

Why shouldn't he challenge his 'gOd' for soem insight into why as a man of the faith he is shunned by tthe very faith thath he has embraced his whole lfe...

It sounds as if you are saying oone shouldn't question the Catholic church?????mayber I'm misunderstanding....

i sort of wish the catholic church would open to a few questions beginning with why it allows priests to sexually rape children and pretends this isn't so and why so many would stick by this its clear things are real ugly in teh halls of 'gOd".... ..

after you are in a place so long the "rules" are imbedded in your head. So strange

And now for a moment of levity






It's so timely that we're seeing so much come out of the dark ages of institutionalized thinking and faithful practice. Yes marriage is a sacrament. And it is so why!? The same reason homosexuality is an abomination to god. It doesn't serve so as to bring children into the world and as such assure the future of the faith, by continually populating with faithful.

That reason homosexuality is an abomination for the jews and the other sects, even in the context of the old testament times especially. Insuring the flourishing of the blood lines. Why do we have today such derogatory terms as "bastard". Because being born out of wedlock was a sin, in the eyes of some and an abomination to the sires , of others. Patriarchy! It's called that for a reason.

And yet it's all coming out now. Now, as if the watershed is bursting. Pedophile priests, now this archaic law prohibiting paralyzed catholics the sacrament of marriage. Did you know a catholic priest can with hold the sacrament of communion to someone they think isn't worthy, when they're a catholic!? Hence that term, "good" catholic. Keep in step, or else you're outta the club.

Thing is, if this were a government office, refusing to grant an American paraplegic a marriage license, because they were unable to procreate, the ACLU would have to be pried from the rafters of outrage. But there's that separation of church and State, so tough! But what this is actually communicating to this Brazilian gentleman, is the message, if he wants to be happy and get married, knowing his whole life he'll never be able to if he expects to be happily married and a catholic, he has to leave the church ! Then he can marry, like a regular non-catholic citizen. Isn't that amazing. The religious is suppose to save the soul from the downfalls and sins of the secular, however the secular will entitle a believer to more rights and freedoms to be respected as a normal human being, than the religious.

I thought it the first light of dawn was breaking when it was learned the catholic church stood mute about Hitler and his campaign of genocide. Now I know that was the first spark in the dark ages, to lift the light and show the world exactly what it means to be a good catholic. What it means when chosen men, blessed to hear the proclamations of god, say such things about the creator of all people playing favorites because it disapproves how it made it's children. Holy mother church! Which of your children born in the image and likeness of father, do you hold in scorn today?!

I'm not sticking up for anything but freedom to choose... even for the Catholic church to choose their laws, no matter how stupid some are. This man's faith in his god goes or should go way beyond the faith he should hold for his church and what he expects from the church. He is directly connected with his god, he does not need the label of 'catholic' to be fulfilled spiritually. Sure, it has got to be a let down, but misguided or wishful faith can do that.

GW, you sound like the reincarnation of Imaginary Friend, she hasn't been around in a while so I'm beginning to wonder.

arty religion is not above reproach, or acountability, tts no secret to any of us that it has enjoyed this 'position' after all have you taken a look at the penalty for questoning this 'diety, plagues, kills firstborns, crucifys his own kid, stones women for showing their ankles , he is a tyrant to say the least......


maybe we as a humanty need to reevaluate what one has a 'right too' raping kids, terrorizing those into submission with a control dogma using fear, how else do you bring one into line fast , threaten to kill their kid or torture them eternally...exclusivity allows for so many limits on what one can know , imagine a life of living in this sort of fear..



So you agree the parpalegic has no right to quetiion why he ca'nt be married??

GW has made a great point, about the crys of unfairness and injustice that would be heard if this was in america???

I wonder at the reason for this thread. Is there a point to be made, other than a certain faith can be very unforgiving and inflexible? I can see almost everyones points so far, on both sides of this coin. Is there any one that honestly can't, other than those entrenched in religous dogma or secular seperatism?

Of course he has the right. But should he expect the church to 'change their tune' all of the sudden considering the known history of the church? This is where I hold the individual responsible. If he has faith in his god (the god that transcends religion), then he should move on from the catholic church and realize that god has bigger plans for him. Reject the church he so willingly believed would embrass him and would provide spiritual fulfillment. And then find the true god within him that knows no boundaries and that transcends the confines of the church. That's what I am saying.

I hear ya! Now pardon me while I spring like Tigger around the room!


Well said!

Oh well said arty...... why ddin't you say that???lol

well we are discussing these things you would be surprised at how many don't even know or would think this goes on.......

I guess I like the tension to build up.

Thanks IF, I mean GW.

she does remind ya of IF I agree....

well done you got my attention for the big bang...of tolerance ..lol good one arty good one.....i was wondering if it was reallly you for a moment, sweet arty..phew it was...lol

Perhaps you should read something written by a Catholic on the subject.
Yeah. Is that some kind of secret? The Eucharist can be withheld until the person is on their deathbed in some cases.



People need to vent their anger at something?

anger actaully expressed paves the way for healing, the discharge of pent up negativity, its when anger is unexpressed it becomes a problem...

It becomes dysfunctional sort o f like the wrath of god it does, seem he has anger management issues or doesn't understand it....yet he created it hmm scratches head......

It is said depression is anger turned in on itself. So , what with the pharmaceutical industry grossing billions world wide every year, think of the money that can be saved by just daring to speak your mind. Even when sarcasm is all some can levy, at least their rage gets out there for all to see. It's sort of cathartic. Oh yes, thanks for that SLL. Maybe you should not presume to know me.

You're welcome.



No apparent effort to understand the Catholic position on this one. Near immediate appearance of such wonderful words as bigotry and fascist.

Well, if the dogma fits .....

Do you understand the reasoning behind this particular part of the RCC canon?

and no, to produce as many Catholic kids as possible is not it.

So prohibitions against gay marriage, church marriage for paralyzed men & their impotent phallus's, and birth control, doesn't insure more catholic kids being born into the faith!?


Do tell.

shoot Sll but for the life of me i can't think of a 'good' reason for the catholic church to be in ones sex life, unless its their priests .....hint hint...

I guess I am surprised.

So there you have it, you openly admit the faith is just like the KKK. I mean why not. They're both clearly hate groups that have nothing better to do seemly then pick on those that are different. I guess this isn't nearly 2007 for them but yet in the sad and unprogressed dark ages.

Where is the morality in this? Is this really what we want our present and future to be filled with? I know I don't. It's disturbing thoughts that run through these people that cannot accept others. What kind of human thinks like that?

In this day and age you would think people would stop with the foolishness.

I thought that a while back also. I think it's just the spirit of IF though - GW's been here since May last year, according to the profile

GW, although she dose at times remind me of IM FR she is very much her own unique individual, i understand she has gotten a few PM's asking if she was mine included, she is very gracious and in getting to know her she is not IM FR....

I guess her writing style is similar , yet GW is very funny ,very light...lol We loves ya GW and glad you are here with us...and a plus you remind of us a psoter so fine as IM FR..sort of takes the awkwardness out of thiings lol....

also guys IM FR was a pagan goddess...

Prohibitions against artificial birth control might, but the reasoning behind that is either prolife views on when human life begins or eh... I suppose sacramental would be a good word.

I wonder if this guy sought a dispensation from his bishop in the matter.