He didn't purposely die for anyone's sins. He came to teach others, and people hated his message back then. He died because we sent him to death. He would have been just as happy to be allowed to live and live a normal life with his sweetheart.

Imagine someone today proclaiming (and being able to show others) how nationalism is crap, religion is ugly when dogmatic, the financial world is an illusion, and our entire history needs an overhaul. Would that person be listened to today? Yeah - right.

If he's here now and he's smart, he'll remain unseen and unidentified - even to himself. Get the job done, but quietly and more efficiently. Stealth. Like a thief in the night.

whoah woah LOL, where does Jesus say he died for OUR sins? lmao.... .....lmao If i remember correctly jesus asked God 'why hast thou forsaken me' Doesnt sound like he willingly died, yet alone died for our sins.

You will answer to the ONE true God on judgment day. For your worship of False gods.

Ditto.

He was quoting a psalm; and it was supposed to be because at that moment he took on all the sins of the world, and necessarily was separated from God the Father. You may not believe the story itself, but that's what the story was trying to say. I wouldn't be too happy about being nailed to a cross either, and it says he didn't want to do it (see the prayer in the garden before the arrest), but still did it. Or you could argue he never really said that, but nevertheless, it originated in one of the psalms. Don't remember which one, though.

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Theres are so many Christians around the world so how can anyone say "The Rapture" is mainly an American thing I admit many Americans believe in this but I live in the United Kingdom and for the christians of this country they too believe in the return of their saviour or "The rapture "
I strongly agree that many people would be skeptical like most are over many aspects in life, but lets just say for an instance he does return, and there is proof it is The Almighty I would be interested in what peoples questions to him would be, some amusing I guess, some critical some sensible so what would your question be to the Almighty, or anyones question could be interesting !!

Wow, there is a lot of religios ignorance on this forum. Yall think Jesus died by mistake and that's the big pay off of christianity. If you've ever picked up a bible you wouldn't understand their beliefs better. I'm not a Christian, but I know their beliefs well, and if you don't know that Jesus died for sins intentionally then you don't know the beliefs of Christianity at all. I reject it mainly because of hell but that's me.

When Jesus returns the world will know.......The bible sais every knee will bow, and every tounge will confess Jesus Christ is Lord. No mistake about it. How ever he will not return untill the end. This is the 2nd comming of Christ.

The rapture gets confused with the 2nd comming alot. its 2 seperate events. The Rapture is when The christians on Earth are taken up in to the clouds to meet jesus and taken to heaven to escape thw 7year trials and tribulations.

The rapture was something I was always a beleiver in, But Once I found out the concept only dates back to a Theory developed in 1830.....im not too sure.

The rapture was started by a guy named Darby around 1830, as you said. The misquoted bible verses refer to being caught up to "meet" Jesus upon his second coming. The Greek used for "meet" denoted meeting a regal representative, such as at the gates of a town, etc., and Christian escapists tooled it around to come up with the rapture. It was on the fringe until the Left Behind series came around, and now it's sort of thought that all Christians believe that way. I think it just refers to the second coming. After all, it doesn't say he's coming back twice.

Well Technicley The Rapture is not a comming of Christ at all, Its Earthling's leaving the planet to meet him in the clouds, So the 2nd comming still remains the 2nd comming, when christ actually comes down from heaven. I beleive the Battle of amargedon takes place then?? The Rapture is to take Jesus's wlect and give them new heavinly bodies for armageden?

Yeah your right though, The rapture is one of those things that may dissapoint alot of christians. I still hope for one But the whole 1830 Scotland origin weekens the hope. Im 50-50 on the matter being that i am a christian. I also think a rapture would be a great way to make UFO's and Aliens the One world Religion talked about in the Bible. Muslims and Jews will then find peace once they find out Aliens created us and took the choosen few in a mass alien abduction, That would indeed create World peace, and a One world religion, New World Order...Thats the only reason I think a Rapture can happen. To be the Foundation of the Counterfit lie the beast will use to deceive man kind. UFO's The New Age religion??

Gotta love a culture whose idea of spirituality and being saved consists of condoning viruslike behaviour on a planetary scale with every natural resource available and then choosing to be whisked off into the clouds at the eleventh hour instead off taking personal inventory and accountability for one's actions.

That culture sounds like the entire human race....Theres only a hand full of people who actually care and they come from all walks of life.

Actually, from my experience with conservative churches, they do refer to the rapture as when "Christ comes back," and Left Behind, etc., refers to it being the coming of Christ, despite there only being talk of one return. I have studied the Rapture, and some good critical works by Christians are The Rapture Exposed and End Time Delusions, among others. I don't have a scholarly knowledge of the doctrine, but it does seem to infer two returns.

The Rapture has supposed to have happened so many times that it seems to indicate it never will. I don't know, though. I certainly can't predict the future, although a lot of Christians think they can.

No I hear ya, Im talking of the "pre-trib" rapture. I guess that can count as a 2nd comming.....although 7 years later he returns again? From what i always understood , Christ dose not come down for the rapture...Christians go up instead. So The rapture never gets counted as an official comming. Once the soul's are collected and taken to heaven, they are restored Life and Given New Heavinly Bodies. ( bodies for combat in my oppinion ) 7 years later Christ and the heavinly host decend from heaven with the raptured bodys as well as all heaviny host to engage war with satan , satans earth and dominions. That day is the official 2nd comming of Jesus Christ. I get confused to if that day is also the day of the battle of amegedon....or is amargedon already taking place at this time?

Ya know......

If there are more than 144,000 christians ( and I think there are), then there are going to be an awful lot of disappointed slobs come the Rapture.

The really, really funny part is that ALL the rapturites SWEAR that they and their loved ones are a shoe in, and its "all the others" who will be left behind.

It makes me wish that this fairy tale would come true, just so that I could watch the 'true believers' faces when the bus leaves without them.

Well If the Fairy Tale is true, You will get to see the Bus leave with out them. Lets keep our fingers crossed

And I'll bet over half of them are Indigenous People.

This is why i partake in these forums to see if there are any truth see'ers and to see what they have to say. I am saddened in that for the most part its rare that another person recognize the obvious. It just frustrates me that so many other people (basically the masses in it's entirety) choose to either continue this lifestyle despite knowing how destructive it is, choose not to disrupt the "convenience" that is their own life to possibly provide salvation for another being less fortunate of the human being status.

I have become saddened by the fact that so many of us just are'nt aware that our own current modern convenience based exsistence is undeniably going to bring us(anyone who partakes in using a car or mass generated electricity for example) a seriously unappealing dose of reality come final judgement.

Unfortunatly just like many of us, I myself have been raised in this modern sort of lifestyle. However now that i recognize how much negativity is generated from this lifestyle... I will now continue my life in a path that is to stray off from the source of all this negativity which is money. Besides i dont like the idea of having to depend on someone else or some business' to attain this which is necessary to survive. Call it unrealistic but from head to toe, we are designed to survive on this planet just as any other animal does naturally, however we became selfish and lazy and look where it has brought us...raping this true perfect creation of God...It was our heads that got us into this state of modern living. Now recognizing how simple and destructive it is, lets see whos got the head to impress God by astraying from the fate of the rest of humanity and living life as it is intended, the actual challenge of untainted and respective survival or LIFE.

Regardless of one's outcome, when the game is played without cheating, there is no loser, there is only a lesson learned. This is always recognized and respected by others...hint hint.

...It's just a matter of struggling a little now to save yourself from a whole lot worse of a struggle later...

with only my true best wishes for all of my co-inhabitants of this fascinating experience.

Not naming names or anything.
Nice and PC

I suspect that Christianity has deviated so far from the original teachings that Jesus' preaching would be unrecognizable to modern Christians. Any statement like "That's not what I meant" would be received with hostility and possibly violence (especially by the militant Evangelicals).

Jesus 2 would do better to start again from scratch with a new religion, rather than trying to correct Christianity. Two thousand years of politics is hard to fight.

Generally speaking, religions tend to attract power mongers. Decent people want to make something meaningful of their lives and, once they believe a Man can tell them how to do this they'll do all sorts of weird things to stay on His good side.. If Jesus didn't want his second attempt at enlightening the world to be sabotaged, he'd have to do a lot more to alert his disciples to the dangers of religious political corruption.

A good start would be to be on the look out for a second coming of Paul of Tarsus ("Saint" Paul). They'd want to get that guy shuttled off to the looney bin as fast as possible.

Have you ever walked around Santa Barbara or New Orleans?
Theres tons of people claiming to be Jesus or all sorts of crazy things.
I once saw a man with a huge sign that said "Jesus is Satan" fist fighting with a man in a suit on State St. in Santa Barbara......(I found it quite amusing haha)
But anyhow, there is no way we would believe him....not on a large scale anyhow.
He might be able to acrue a small group of followers.....Kind of like Charles Manson...who did claim to be Godly or like God....., but you've seen Charles Manson followers....all looney-toons.

in regards to the return of Jesus -

seems he's a wee bit over due according to his own words . Since he tells his apostles and others that he would appear to them and the end of the world would happen and this would happen during thier lifetime.

http://www.evilbible.com/end_times.htm

not to mention people have been 'sure' of this return and the end of the world numerous times since then.


maybe 'Jesus' did return and we missed it. or thought him crazy and institutionalized him.

well when he do's it will be through the bloodline who will sing the right song and become one not only in flesh for he was born of flesh,

but also in spirit for singing the right song .

and give forth proof through the body of jesus who sits on the right hand side of god our father.

so not only will he return in spirit but also in flesh for he is a living god, as one.

and stand and walk he will before gods throne in truth.

I believe that his time to come back has come and gone. Now the future of mankind is being left in our own hands with no significant help from the devine.

before all this, heaven and earth must be one,or i should say heaven has to be seen on earth in one as one.

hint; look at cape breton island from space and see our fathers throne.

what is that supposed to mean?

If Jesus Christ returned, would he be believed? No. I think he would be labelled a nut and be put into an Aslum. According to today's culture: If you speak to God, you're a believer. If God speaks to you, you're a nut. I honestly don't believe in the stories of the Bible. IMO and from research I've done, it's made up of over 5,000 years of copied retortic and ideals stolen from previous religions and ancient cultures to form a totalitarian faith. But that doesn't mean I don't believe in a higher being.

Dear Lt. Ripley,

The end of "a" world did happen, and the Christian era began, which dominates the Western world to this day. In a way, the followers were "reborn" to spread the propaganda.

Peace.

I guess it all matters in how he returns. If he comes out of the riding a chariot and throwing lightning bolts then yes he will be believed by a lot...but if he returns in human form again no one will beleive...If he returns in human form again he will be killed again.

yeah but........

the J man didn't reappear.

As I sit here reading and re-reading what you've said it strikes me that you're ignorant in how the Christian faith really started. "A" world did not vanish, invaders happened. Christianity swept the world like a plaque washing over everything in its path, trying to purify the world into a new world order. Whoever questioned the new faith was either burned, hanged, impaled, axed - or just basically killed, for resistance. And followers were not "reborn", but brainwashed to spread "the word" or as you have put it "propaganda".

I'm not trashing Christianity, I'm just putting truth to fact. That's how Christianity started. One man, many followers, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

I'm sure this isn't an original thought, but what if Jesus Christ was the David Koresh, Jim Jones or Charles Manson of his time? There are (granted, very slight) similarities... charming and smarming his way into devout followers, the claims of being the Messiah, the living slightly apart from the rest of society with his followers (okay, so maybe not the killing and mass suicide )... The only difference is the book that came from Christ's followers (the worst kind of hearsay), claiming he did all these 'miraculous' things. I'm sure if you looked into followers' statements for Koresh or Manson (or Jones, if they'd lived), they'd say how 'miraculous' their leaders were, and how they believed what they said - that they were gods on earth. So... would that mean that all the Christians today are following the (believed) teachings of a madman? Granted, I'm not an expert on any of these possible 'messiahs', I was just wondering...

As for Jesus being recognized today... see above. Mental institution, strong medications and securely locked doors would be what awaits him, if he decided to 'come back' (if he was ever here to begin with).

Another question: if Jesus was just a 'vessel' for god to mingle with us peons on earth, I get why he sent 'the vessel' as a guy, in that time. But in this day and age, why couldn't Jesus return as a chick? What if all the 'believers' are on the lookout for a guy, and it's really some broad they should be looking for? Just wondering...

(edited to add admission of possible ignorance )

Ignorant or not, pagan Rome did vanish, did it not? And the Western world was dominated by Rome, was it not? Also, why do you think I put quotes on the word reborn? Please read carefully before you judge. And so sorry that I am not as wise as you.

It is the reason why some people celebrate Easter, correct? And didn't Thomas poked his finger through a flesh, not just a spirit??? And it is the reason why many Christians were willing to die for their belief system because a tremendous force, God or not, appeared on this earth. Surely, people wouldn't just CONSCIOUSLY give up their lives for nothing??? Whether or not Christians misenterpreted Jesus' existence, a tremendous force did come to this world, at one point in time, and it is probably the reason why I look forward to the Holiday Season because a sweet, loving force does come back to this world again and again. Call it Jesus, whatever, I love that energy, and my home is always strangely abundant during the Holiday Season, even if I am not a Christian (anymore). Besides, our Western world today is still dominated by Jesus' presence. Why is that I wonder??? It is more than just PR, definitely. And if that is not POWER, then I simply don't know what gives. And I know for a fact that I will not get over him in this lifetime, neither will anyone of you, unless God gives us that grace to get over Jesus. You will always feel his presence, especially as long as there are Christians around. Christmas. Easter. All Saints Day. Names of people. Streets. It is practically endless. As long as you debate about it, you are not over it.

when Jesus will come the second time, it will come with the same glory as his first arrival.
and before all this you will see the signs, like the holy cross on the sky?

Rome did not vanish, it was just replaced and its principles adopted by North America. America is Rome, and right now, George W. Bush is its Caligula.

when the second comming comes there will be no way to refute because the proof will be jesus himself .

the only way he's comming if the bloodline shows were .

and like a tomb in the valley of kings his body of flesh will be seen but this valley is of dry bones.

who els will be seen and proved to be, enoch ??????

2007 years and counting........

Hope y'all aren't holding your breath, or selling off your goods.

hows the question comming

ACTUALLY WE DONT CARE UNLESS IT CONCERNS NATIONAL PROTESTS

Oh yeah, yep I've seen him ! Actually he was shopping at my local 7 eleven but to my amazement, no-one even looked twice at him....I wonder why ?

Are we assuming that Jesus would actually come out and say "Hey I'm Jesus"...he would probably say his name was Charles until everybody got on his side and then he would say "Ha! My name isn't Charles! It's Jesus! You just got punked!"

That's my prediction of Jesus' second coming....why don't I get a book at the end of the bible?

Those thousands of people that you write about are currently mental hospital patients so don't read too much into it !!

Cadetak47, YOU'RE THE MAN !! lol !!!!!

If Jesus returned today and claimed to be the messiah, I think many will brand him as a charlatan. He would cause such a stir and controversy in the media that he may even be guested in CNN or Larry King. Other celebrities, like David Blaine, may even come forward to challenge the powers that he demonstrates in public.