I am raising my kids as Muslims more due to cultural reasons. I am an atheist. But I want them to know their heritage.

But I have heard about the recent outbreaks in Somalia and the women trapped without their burqas and left to burn in a fire in Saudi and I am just really appalled at the religion lately. Have been for a while but Somalia is just the final straw.

Since it seems, forever, all we hear are violence and brutality coming at the hands of this religion. I am tired of hearing the words "Islamic" and then hearing about death and destruction. What gives? Its enough to make me want to just nuke them into kingdom come. (Wrong I know)

Last night I was talking to my son and I pointed out that Jews Christians and Muslims all say they believe in the same God.

I compared it to three neighbors getting a letter from God. And inside the message is basically the same. But they start fighting over which mailman was a better carrier.

God never says in ANY of the books to worship the messenger. Yet the Christians worship Jesus and the Muslims worship Mohammed. (even if they say they don't they do)

Why is there all this fighting over who has the best mail man if the God is supposedly the same.

Its ENOUGH. Don't religious people see the damage that this is doing to the world? Why don't you all just friggin STOP already.

People give life to the faith that sustains the religion. Violent terroristic ideologies, applied as translations of faithful scripture, doesn't speak of the "god" those scriptures are attempting to impart a vision of, to the mind of the believer. Rather, I think, it speaks of those that would translate the words so and thereby attempt to substantiate their vicious natures as an ordinance from that kind of god.

The women that burned to death did so because they believed more strongly in the faith that said they were prohibited to be seen in public without their Burka, than they believed they were entitled to live. So instead they burned alive, only to have their charcoaled bodies removed into the public domain, without those Burka's. The women and their faith, overcame the inherent "fight or flight" survival reflex common to almost all people. The men, related to those imperiled women, watching this tragedy in the making flame to life before their eyes. And they believed more in the faith that said their women were prohibited from being seen in public without their Burka's, more so than they believed they wanted to see their women again, alive and healthy. They curbed that "hero" adrenaline, that would compel some people to break through those flames, or enter into that building and escort those women out, even if all they had to do so was an article of their own clothing.

People give life to faith and in so doing, in extreme cases of personal faithful sacrifice as this, literally so. And all the while, I believe they believe they do so because gods will, as they understand it, makes it necessary. Which speaks to the kind of god image they choose to believe in by creating that invisible patriarch, in defining it requires this of it's faithful.

So with respect to your letter and mailman analogy, how about this. How about those three families, jew, christian and muslim, all received a letter from three different mailmen. And while the letters says the same exact thing, each one reading reads the salutation as exclusively addressed to the jew. Or the christian, or the muslim. And so the people with their letters begin arguing about exactly who among them those identical words, are really talking to.

And what they seek to intercede and calm this conflict, is the advice of higher minds amid their own particular sect. So the jews Rabbi says, well my daughter it is clear this letter is addressed to you. And the christians pastor says the same thing. As does the Imam of that muslim.

Now we have three neighbors and superior learned backup, arguing as to who it is those words on that page is really meant for.

There is an old wisdom that says, if you do not find that which you seek, inside yourself you shall not find it elsewhere. So true. Because how does one know what they're looking for, if they don't have a connection , an instinct, of what it would look like once they find it!?

Imagine someone telling you, go look for a spatula and let me know when you find it. But you've never heard of that word, much less have any clue what that looks like. How long do you think you'll be looking, going with that understanding of what a spatula is, so as to be found!?

Raise your children from your heart, so that they learn to love themselves as the manifestation of the god you seek to inspire them to know. Because from there, and that level of self-love, imparted by the parent so full of love for them, they'll not ever worry you they might take what they feel about that and harm themselves later. Much less harm anyone else. Because if they love themselves as the creation and in the name of that god you told them about, they'll realize that power , being god, must certainly be able to make others if it indeed made them, in the beginning. So they'll know that if they harm others in the name of that , they're also harming themselves. And that would be unthinkable because they know themselves to be the embodiment of the love, that some choose to call god. But that really isn't so easily contained, by just three simple letters, at all.

TT, there are many reasons why I fled the Christian faith--one being the bitter infighting and blatannt hypocrisy. I simply realized that such things proved that god--at least a knowable god--did not exist. I see the same things in the other major religions as well--sectarian violence off the charts. It has been the same for thousands of years. Sadly, it will not end until we step into the 21st century, put away fanciful dreams of gods, and live for the now instead of an afterlife. Only then, do we have a chance of bettering our world.

Kindly,

Sean

Mohamed claimed to be a messenger from God and we can take him for his word or not.
Jesus never claimed to be a messenger from God, Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, `I am the Son of God.'"
Same concept you either take Him for His word or not.

Most Moslems arrive at Islam as a cultural or family norm in fact I would guess the number to be around 90% with the remaining 10% to be from honest research and a personal decision.
Where as in Christianity that first figure is around 25% mostly catholic based. I can attest to that as I was raised catholic but rejected it when I made an honest attempt at reconciling their beliefs with the scriptures themselves. I would guess again that only a further 25% arrived at Christianity by honest research and a personal decision. The rest are somewhere in the middle or undecided.
Irish

I agree Irish that Jesus never said he was the "messenger" per say, but in his life he acted as the mailman so to speak.

I agree on that point

It can also be due to a pro Christain/Judaism agenda that controls media. these 3 religions all have a history of extreme brutality and bloodshed. Islam seems to be more so in the modern era than any. Just remember that extremist may be a small sect, but they can cause HUGE attention. There is pure Islam all over the world. Don't let the more publicized poor decisions of some outweigh the forgotten beautiful decisions of others.

As I've said on other threads before I'm neither Christian or Muslim however I cannot for the life of me truly understand the Islamic faith since it segregates half of its own congregation(women). Women being circumcised to lower their libido's I believe is a direct attack on a humans personal rights! many women have only just recently dicovered that this barbaric practice isn't even mentioned in the Quran! i truly believe that the Islamic faith has been hijacked by power hungry men to form an exclusive "boys club"! How can faith be used as an excuse for denying the human right of education for all.

Here we go again , people see extremist behavior and they think that is the norm, give me a fu@#&*% break. I showed this artical to my husband who is pakastani and he was disucsted. My mother in law couldnt belive , sick , sick , people among other curses she said. Why do people only choose to see what the media projects to you, cause its not the only and absolute truth. Yes there are these moran extremest but they do not make up they muslim population not even half ,but I guess people need to FEEL GOOD about THIER WAR OF TERROR.

Get your facts strait!!!!!!! This may be smally practiced in the east most muslims dont even know about this and most certinanly NOT a comman thing AT ALL . if you wanna talk about that talk about AFICA where it IS comman practice. People just spout shi* outta thier mouths and dont even know what the hell they are talking about.....HOW MANY MUSLIM wemon do YOU KNOW ????????? YEAH I DIDNT THINK SOOOOO. I know plenty and NONE of them are circumcised.

Before you start yelling at my comments let me set the record straight with you I actually know many Muslim women thank you very much and all of them are very dear friends to me! also several of these women "escaped " their homelands so as not to face such discrimination. will you deny that in many Muslim countries under sharia law women are continually segragted from the men and prohibited from even receiving an education (basic human right )? I live and work in a prodominately Muslim area so please don't tell me I don't know any muslim women!!

OHH YEAH all the muslim wemon you know "ESCAPED" .LMAO... I married into a muslim family I've been to the mosk meet many people and I have to tell you all the they love their country and go back often to visit and are all educated and when they are sepert from the men it is cause they want to be, you know not every one thinks like you. I think you are full of SH*# and you know it.

firstly I resent your personal attacks they are not necessary I'm not attck you am I? I was simply trying to get your opinion as a women who is also a Muslim. I am not full of sh** if your would like to know more about me and the people I know and work with please feel free to Pm me instead of insulting me. Can I just highlight the point that I presume that since you originate from Kentucky that you are living as a Muslim in the States is that true? If so then of course people are educated and have not need to complain. however maybe you should research more about the plight of women uder sharia law in such places as Kashmir and other places in Afganistan. Am I wrong in saying that in these areas the Taliban enforce strict control over females in schools?

ok SORRY I'm just kinda defensive cause every one is making generalizations about muslims. Yes there are opressed areas but as there are in many places and your making it sound as if all the wemon you know escaped I just find that very strange cause I know NO wemon that have had ESCAPE, and you KNOW MANY ... just sounds fishy if you ask me.

I accept your apology and understand that it must be hard sometimes since most people do stereotype or generalize. Maybe my choice of words as in "escaped" was the wrong one. Many of my family, my parents included work for several human rights organisations. Many people male and female that I have met have simply been trying to lead better lives and leave the harsh restrictions that are placed upon them.

I find it hard to believe that the person responding to this is a true Muslim that refers to the Mosque as a mosk?

Believe me I am well aware of Islam. I was a practicing muslim for 6 years. I just did a symposium for one of my classes on the Hijabi and how they are represented in the media.

I'm not talking about the stereotypes. It made your husband sick to read THIS article? What about the article on Saudi where the women were locked in a fire because they weren't covered? How did that make him feel?

If these acts are the acts of "radical muslims" then in my opinion the Muslim majority needs to do more to stop them. Its crazy out of control because this problem is not addressed in the Muslim community itself.

How many Muslims do you know protest against acts of crime? I have seen plenty of Muslims protest about cartoons but ZERO Muslims that took the streets to protest 9-11 or the suicide bombings in Israel.

the female circumcision thing is mostly north west africa where it is done to most muslim women i know a fellow who married 4 muslim women and they all had it done .

In my opinion Islam is a new Religion with New Customs and Traditions not really found on earth before Muhamed .

the quran was wrote by one bunch of men that put their heads together where as the bible was wrote over hundreds of years by men that mostly never met . Only devine inspiration can explain like the book of daniel and revelation fitting like a glove fits a hand they help unlock each other . And John never Met Daniel . The bible is wrote in a here a little there a little , line upon line preciept upon preciept way to prove is devinely inspired . The Quran writers in my opinion just read the Bible and picked and chose what to keep and what to throw away . The Quran don't even tell man what Mankind was suppose to leave alone on this earth .

I don't think you could of Sold a Quran on earth if it wasn't for Ishmaelites a little upset over isac getting the better blessing in the bible . as nobody else would of figgured the need for new scriptures .


In the book of Revelation it warns severly about adding or taking away from that book , actually claims to take away could take away your part of the book of life . The muslims Take away the words of the book just because they don't like them with no proof that revelations is not a revalation of Jesus Christ . Dangerous Stuff to take away or Add to a book claiming to be a Revalation of Jesus Christ Delivered to him from the Holy Father with no proof what soever its not the real thing . If you take Rev 1 and Rev 3 and Put them together you will see the 24 elders of heaven kneeling down worshiping Jesus as God as muslims want to take that away and there is scripture warning you could lose your eternal life for taking the words away . Id be carefull what i cut out of a Bible you want to have the Proof it was added by a man and not Inspired by God Almighty . Somebody else getting a Better blessing is not a Reasn to Write the earthj a Brand new Holy Book and a Brand New Religion !

Most of modern Christianity don't come from the book its got other orgins but thats no reason to write a new Book .

There is a fascinating book that I am reading right now, it's called "Myths & Secrets, by Barbara Walker. It was published in 1982. It's now my Bible! I will never ever call any man made religion a religion of any God any longer after read this book. This book is a encyclopedia filled with many years of religious history. The research she did to put this book together had to be pains taking. There are many religious history books that tell and know just how evil the Church and many other different religions. This is just one book that explains the truth... It also gets deep into where, and why, and how religions got started. What it tells in that book is shocking. It also has references to many other books like it. Hope it helps.

Take care....

I have that book. What a read, especially for women as it is intended to given them a fair understanding of all that is otherwise obscured under the guise of the patriarchy suppressing so much of womens history. Or as some spiritual feminists call it, "herstory" (her-story). It's actually titled: "The Womens Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets" . One of the most bookmarked titles in my personal library. Love that book.

I would also suggest the River of God by Gregory Riley. A wonderful read on the origin and evolution of Judaism and Christianity.

The River of God
http://www.amazon.com/River-God-History-Ch...TF8&s=books

Sean

Thanks for the book links guys. Those are awesome. I noticed no response to the question of why Muslims don't take to the streets to protest suicide bombings.

the problem on this earth is most of so called modern christianity is not the faith that The Man Jesus Christ had while he walked in the pages of our bibles . No resemblance what so ever to the Faith of Christ and most who claim they are selling the faith of Christ .
Christ walked this earth as a young jewish man to set an exsample that ye must follow his steps . Sabbath Keeping , Clean Foods , Hebrew Holy days were all part of Christ life which he did as an exsample of the real faith . How that became chanting keeping false holy days , praying to statues ect is debateable . Some figgure Peter never went to Rome and maybe it was Simon Magnus who went to Rome and started this new form of Christianity . In other words the church of Rome never had the holy spirit to start with its been a imposter sence day one .

Islam has been very successful only because it judges itself against a false christianity that was set up as a stumbling block to snair thinking men and mostly non thinking men.

Islam could not of been so successful if we never had false Christianity and all its foolish deeds .


Satan is not a Fool hes good at decieveing , he hid real christianity by surrounding it with Babalon the great (confussion the great , Mainstream christianity ) . Now you Got to Find the Needle In the Haystack or the very narrow way . The narrow way would be alot easier to find id people put their Eyes on Christ and beleaved His walk was really an Exsample and that ye must follow his steps ............He is the Way ! not a pope . Go back and Watch Jesuus Customs and Sabbaths , Holy Days ect then you may find that narrow way .

I have aften wondered the same thing. Why don't the true Muslims march in the streets against these suicide bombers? These guys are killing even they own Mulsim people. From what I have read there are about 1 billion Muslims on the planet Earth. The vast majority of these men, women, & children are completely peaceful. In fact, some even say that Islam means peace.

I have two Muslims friends they are both very gentle and peaceful people, and they detest what these extremist have done to their religion! The religious leaders of Islam world wide can help people who have some connection with Islam to understand that the violent extremists have distorted Islam in many ways. In other words I feel the extremist have hijacked Islam to meet their needs to war against who they call infidels. BUT in the reality of it all' these extreme Muslims are the ones who are the infidels, because they are NOT at all following their own Quranic teachings.

Christianity and Islam and Judaism have all had violent past histories. I personally can't see following anything with a violent past like that. But to each their, I always say. Maybe one day all the peaceful Muslims who make up the majority of that faith will have to one day fight back with their fellow so-called terrorsit Muslims who have been indoctrinated, and that have been "mind trained" into these violent terrorism acts against mankind. Maybe deprogramming these terrorist would work better, because it seems killing them only makes more terrorist!

Take care....

dont know much about islam.never really cared much about all the different religeons.baptist,catholic ,whatever.always tried to focus on facts.to me looking through all the different takes on things the king james bible to me seems to be truth.to me when looking at the koran it seems to me just to be another remake of the bible.kinda like the mormans .the bible is reallyunattackable.if you really study it you will see the truth if you take it line upon line ,precept upon precept.the word of god without adding to or taking away from is very obvious to me to be the truth.jhn 17.17 thy word is truth.gods word also tells us there is salvation in no other name but jesus.i dont know where in the bible any of this was changed.and the same bible,the same truth tells us that not one jot nor tittle shall be changed without the curse.

Richard Dawkins has a very profound point in The God Delusion that totally relates to your first sentence. That there should be no child born into a religion. I don't know how old your kids are, but I'm sure they don't understand most of the religion. All religions have a foundation in ignorance, that's apparent by the act of "faith". I wouldn't think it wise to bring a child into something like that, when your goal should be to teach them as much as you can. I'm not trying to lecture you, but I'm sure most people would agree that they would want their children raised with education, to be knowledgable, and to learn as much as possible. I feel sadly, that bringing religion to them befor adulthood, might hinder that learning process.

Now alot of the fighting to which you a referring to is relative to the history of Christianity as well. However with Islam, alot of families are born into the religion, and it branded upon them from day one, and the laws by men differ there, than alot of other countries. For instance, america which has a huge Christian population. There are many families born into religion the same way, but the laws are more secular. They were first constructed my deists with the constitution, and the rest of the laws have branched out to not favor religion. That doesn't say we don't have the same kind of violence in regards to conflicts of ideals ranging from religious, political, race, etc. I just don't think it's as obvious. Unfortunately that violence is a by-product of mans natural disposition to survive. Many ignorant people, not graced with knowledge to subdue it, are constantly repeating the process by pro-creating, and instilling false ideas into their offspring.

I wish I knew when or if that kind of violence and death would ever stop, because it really bugs me. I don't understand how some people can act.....primatively. You'd figure with our thousands of years of existance that would change. Hopefully we do, but unfortunately it's a very slow process...kinda like evolution. hmmmm

Good luck with your choice either way.

You do know that the KJV bible, which to you seems to be the truth....is a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of the previous versions of the bible? Don't know if that would make a difference to you or not. As far as I know, and can be expected just like a legend...alot of words were askewed, forgotten, mistranslated, etc. Does that make your truth...an untruth..or a pseudo-truth, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

So true. And what that reminded me of, as soon as I read it, was that party game. "I've got a secret". One person at the front of the room whispers a short story/secret , to the person beside them and then says, "pass it on". By the time that story reaches the very last person in the room, they're suppose to say aloud what they were just told. It's always different than the beginning story. Always. It's embellished, things are omitted, etc... as it passes from one person to the next. It might be a party game, but it's a profound example for how oral histories can get skewed in translations through the centuries.

i dont know much about how things in the bible were changed from translations. but still, when you read and study it without any religeous persuasions it is still without a shadow of doubt obviously the truth.even if something was changed,it doesnt seem to have changed the message, or availability of the plan of salvation.and if the word was changed by man to benefit man ,then wouldnt that be easy too see.it is in any other religeous books or beliefs that have changed the original message.and god said this word wouldnt be changed, and his word would judge us in the end.this bible proclaims god to be great,powerful,almighty and to have love for us and wanting us to be saved ,so why then would he allow his word ,our map to be changed in any way...why would you tell someone of a hidden treasure then give them a map and it be wrong???
you wouldnt alter their pathway if you wanted them to find the treasue would you?

Getting the gist of the message isn't the same as it being the truth. Keep in mind the ENTIRE bible was translasted multiple times...as well as the OT before it. This changes alot of things...especially when stuff is mistranslated, and can lead to people not understading/misinterpreting the "message". Now when you take into account, peoples own abiltiy to often make mistakes, especially when it come to the scriptures which aren't exactly a clear path, then you get to more and more misunderstanding. That's one of the reasons there are so many denominations of christianity alone. On top of that, fundementalists refuse to acknowledge this, and instead would rather use these poor translations to radically abuse "sinners" socially, politically, etc. We should stay on topic though....even though mistranslations/misunderstandings lead up to the Koran as well.

If you don't agree to any of this, I urge you to do some religious history research, with an openmind. Educational experiences are always great.

I was wondering if you would elaborate on this part of your statement.

not sure what part u dont understand,maybe religeous 'persuasions',like baptist,catholic,trinity,oneness,etc.

people might make mistakes ,god wouldnt.the bible ,gods word was in no way altered from the ''clear path'' that was meant for us to take.the many denominations are the product of false prophecy and people changing the word, like mixing it up,changing around.even looking at history of the word only proclaims the message wasnt changed at all.

Well, because the bible is regarded as religious scripture, and you said: "When you read and study it without any religeous persuasions it is still without a shadow of doubt obviously the truth." I was asking then what truth you would be talking about, if it speaks not to the religious of any persuasion but of truth. What truth? Would it then seek to impart?! Hope that helps clear it up for you.

no no no its not religious at all...but Holy...when you get into religion your following man...

what truth?? John 17:17 thy word is truth

Romans 3:4 let Gods word be true an every man a liar

not religion thats the turn from the truth

hope that helps ya some..

My point is, in the older versions of the bible, even before the new testament, things were written a certain way. People of different culture translated to their language, over and over. In the process MANY mistakes were made (because of a poor understanding of a different language) which made the "clear path" in say the Torah, significantly different than the KJV, and NIV, and newer. This coupled with human error, similar to typos on these forums, as well as peoples own deciphering/interpretation/translation, can make for a rather unclear perception.

Recently I got the chance to download a free ebook (because of copyright experation), that had 3 different interpretations of the Aramaic or Hebrew version of the torah. 3 different people, 2 were american or european, and one was arabic. The book has the entire bible broken down in groups of these interpretations. For Instance, each verse is listing all 3 interpretations. Just from reading a few chapters in Genesis, it's apperant that people have different understandings of other languages than their primary. Sometimes they were very similar, sometimes one was different, sometimes all three were different. Individual letters can change the meaning/definition of some words in some languages, especially ancient simplistic language. It's one of the other reasons mistakes are made in translations. Remember, it's not the single mistake, it's the repeating process through out thousands of years. So all these mistakes add up, some scriptures, or parts of scriptures take on completely different meanings. Some don't, some change a bit. Thing is, the truth of the original word of god is tainted by human error. Study of Historical texts, and some on laguages, can help shed light on what I'm talking about.

maybe studying historical text is the problem here.the bible is very cut and dry.historical text are done by man trying to denounce the authenticy of the bible.and as far as i know ther was a great deal of work done to keep things real as far as the kjv translation.2 peter 1.20 the word has no ''private interpretation'', so there really shouldnt be all these different believes, only one truth.

Here it says just how many Bible translations have taken place down though history! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bibl...nd_translations


GoddessWhispers you are right!!
Like many ancient works, the oldest parts of the Bible were passed along orally before they were ever written down. Both the Bible and the Quran were orally resited before they were written down. One can only amagine how stories started, but we know how they ended up, since we have all the strange far-fetched stories that could only have been "made up" out of hundreds of different far-fetched minds working together!! Your party game sounds quite fun, I will have play that sometime....

Muhammad could neither read nor write, but would simply recite what was revealed to him for his companions to write down and memorize. During the time revelations were received by the prophet of Islam, the Muslims were encouraged to memorize them. This is mentioned in the Hadith of Bukhari,:
Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: Allah's Apostle said to me: 'Recite for me.' I said: 'Shall I recite it to you although it had been revealed to you?' He said: 'I like to hear from others'..." 6:60:106 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_and_de..._the_Qur'an


Take care....

Every bible translation has had a bias of some type, this leads to some of the mistakes I mentioned earlier. I've been under the impression for a few years that when the KJV was being translated it was under heavy bias, specifically for political pull for the church and king. I didn't just come up with that to spite any believer, as I personally have studied my moms KJV, and a few NIV type modern translations. Believe it or not historical documenters have long been known to express their personal bias, and in this case, it's not to denounce the authenticity of the bible, it's to make it easier for people, as not many people were linguists back then, especially common man who embraced the word of god.

http://www.solagratia.org/Articles/The_Kin...anslations.aspx <-----------------------

Here's some examples of what I meant about how the mistakes can be made, which leaves an end product dissimilar to all it's predecessors. I agree with your statement as to there shouldn't be all these beliefs if it's the truth. That's my whole point, the whole process need re-worked, re-evalulated, for the benefit of those that have been believers. It's caused a gross misunderstanding by many people.

http://www.sigmalogobooks.com/SLB_Bible_Mistranslated.html

This link is an example of how the misunderstanding can cause social, political issues, without warrant, because people aren't educating themselves. Such as a child can be born into a fundamentalist christian family is pretty much molded into a nature of discrimination, that both polars moral common sense, and embraces ignorance. Which seems to me is ridiculous , and opposite of what Christ would profess. I'm agnostic, and I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, however, people need to educate themselves as well as being taught by others. One philosophy I live by is...live and let live. But I would rather not ignore something that causes disruption in society, hate, bigotry, etc. In the bible, to me Christ is the epitome of love, and a lot of people aren't living their lives to love. I don't know, I've rambled too much. I'm just pretty passionate about the subject because I love history in general, and I feel a lot of people aren't aware of their own history. Happy reading..oh... merry christmas too...hope everyone has a wonderful weekend.

btw the History , history international, discovery, and science channel have all had some very interesting historical religious shows on air through out the week. Very interesting look into history.

i took the time to actually look at the sites you posted.....which i usually dont bother with..but anyhow..the first site about the different versions....i noticed it was mostly the understanding of the Modern Eye...that ppl today can not understand the termology..which i agree you need to be able to understand what your reading...but that is why we have chain references concordinces ...dictionarys and so forth we should also know and be able to look these words up in hebrew finding their meaning...etc...i myself had an easyreading bible...but during a bible study i discovered something i found disturbing..we was studying the tabernacle. it was Exodus 27:3 KJV..and thou shalt make his pans to recieve his ashes, and his shovels, and his basons, and his fleshhooks, and his firepans: all the vessels thereof thou shalt make of brass...now in the easyreading kjv i had it stated in Exodus 27:3 and thou shalt make ITS pans to recieve ITS ashes,and Its shovels, and ITs basons, and ITs fleshooks, and Its firepans..all the vessels thereof shalt make of brass...now in reading those two verses what seems the wrong in it...it completly changed the idenity of God...it changed HIM into an IT meaning it could be anything you want it to be instead of God...being ....God....man is made in the image of god....god is always referred to as HE or Him...amale...etc..not an it...so the easy reading isnt gods word....since it changes his identity....understand what im saying here?
im a seeker of god i want to know who he is i want to make it to heaven and do his will here...so i must be careful on what i choose to read if i read something that doesnt tell me exactly who/what he is then im in the wrong..and even in that site it stated how close the KJV is.....but anyway...all these new translations of the bible is causes alot of misunderstanding...take the second site u posted....shew....................................when it goes against what the bible states....trying to state that the bible has been mistranslated...specially in the cases its choosing...seems like they are just trying to convince ppl that its okay to be homosexual...and that the bible is wrong...come on ...their just trying to justify themselves or someone in that situatioin...cant say anything other than that site was.....well....a bad choice...but anyways a sin is a sin no matter how its labeled.....but it should be named/labeled not covered up or said that the bible has misquoted it ...etc...wether it be homosexual...adultery....murder...drunkered....theifs...false prophets...liars...etc....for they all will have their part in the lake of fire...
as for the historychannel/science channel iv seen their documenteres before....iv noticed in some of them that they have very interesting points...but also they have their downfalls as well....that is why we should be careful in what we view read...partiapate in ...i mean if your seekin an wantin to know youll some how find out...for i did...i havent always been where i am now..quit the opposite to some extent...

but anyhow....Happy Holidays.....

Of course there was a bias on the second link, but they made multiple valid points. Especially the fact that all other "sins" are given/listed numerous times in scriptures through out the bible. But the one about homosexuality is given very few times...which definitely supports the idea that the writers of scriptures were describing a very particular kind of homosexuality....that of a male prostitute in the temple. Which totally makes since, when you look at the older/ancient cultures, homosexual activity was very common, and not frowned upon. However a lot of people didn't like male prostitutes in the temples as well as soldiers that would rape the men of defeated opposing forces to futher humiliate them. Homosexuality was well accepted as a form of love/lust back then, but when it came to uncivil behavior, and whoring, it upset people.

I appreciate that you went ahead and checked the links, whether you agree with them or not, they were civil points, no one attacking no one..... was that a double negative? tehe.

They worship a meteorite in the desert, that's what's wrong with it.

We stamped him pretty damn good I'd say.

Is there a problem with Islam? I always thought it was "ok."

The only issue I have is the requirement for group prayer. I don't like group anything, nor do I like to follow the crowd. Islam means submit: submit to the will of Allah! I've got no problem with that. It's just about submitting to the will of the group with which I have a problem!

Whilst it's not like Christianity hasn't claimed a billion lives, it's not doing it now. Sitting around arguing that the people who do these vile things "aren't real Muslims!" really annoys me. They clearly think they are. Misunderstanding or not.

I think Islam generally is just so vastly different from what most people in the west are used to, that it's most simple ways are just seen as negative things.

Having many wives, fearing God to the core extent Islam teaches, being greeted by however many virgins in paradise... To Western eyes, these things are bordering on "sick".

There used to be a guy in my class, who used to read a book on how to get into paradise. It was like his only interest. It made me uncomfortable. I think what Islam teaches can easily be twisted into into slightly corrupt reasons for doing things. It reminds me a lot of the twisted understanding some Catholics have, that they can do whatever the hell they like as long as they repent. That, to me, is rather sick. It's missing the point, too.

All the Muslims that I've met have been mixed. Slightly more of them have been what I'd call "normal" in their views of the world, maybe because of where I live and the influence of the west.

I quite like Islam. I certainly prefer it to Christianity. Maybe that's because it hasn't been twisted so much, or because it's rather "new" to me. But generally it seems to have a lot more depth.

Not just Islam. Christianity has become extremely twisted. The Christianity (in its many forms) that is practiced today is evolved and totally different from the Christianity of 2,000 years ago. The idea that Christians put forth - that Ieshueh was higher than the angels (read angelos: Greek for Messenger) meant that Ieshueh was the message himself. Ieshueh, through the example of his life, provided a message of tolerance, moderation, and non-violent protest (values embraced by Mahatma Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr.).
But the whole spiel about rising from the dead, godhood, and all what else? These are fabrications brought about to create the mass movements in a Greco-Roman world. I don't mean to disallow Christian views that Ieshueh is "god." I mean to say, if any of us have full and doubtless faith that "GOD" in fact breathed life in us, that we are a child of the Cosmos, then we could also call ourselves "Son" or daughter of GOD. Imagine the good we could accomplish with that level of faith!

But Islam? Islam is pure (in its purest form). One GOD, one code for all, and tolerance for all who seek GOD! This was the beauty of Mohammed's revelation! Submit to the will of Allah! But not to the group... The group will get us into a world of hurt!

But all "religions" that embrace violence to propagate political views? They lose spiritualism. And they degenerate into vile warmongering machines: whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Quantum Mechanics or what have you. All religions try to reach the ultimate TRUTH: We are all in this together, and We all strive to find GOD. Religion is about philosophy, quest for GOD, and appreciation of the human condition within the Divine Milieu (Teilhard de Chardin, Jesuit Priest).

Areee Firstly don't blame the religion Islam for what the medai teaches or in newspapers ???? Its people doing. DO folow WHat God, THe Almighty says in his book and what the messangers of God Allah have taught us ........

Secondly Muslims unlike Christians don't wroship messangers ???? Its for God alone. Messangers like our Greatest Prophet Muhammed SAW have shown muslims how to led life. Secondly Christians should Also follow Jesus Christ Prophet ISa (AS)... Then it will be ok ...

Peace ALL over...

Wow



someonw resurrected a 18 month old thread

There is nothing wrong with muslims or any other group who believes diferently than another, They all Believe differently, and many condemn the other forthis.
Imo, they all have some learning to do as far as temporance nand understanding, love and Compassion.

Love Omnaka

Oh thread resurrection?



+ nothing is wrong with islam