I can sit here and list all the wars and killing over religion, the amount that have die in the name of God but thats too easy
…but what I would like to read, is someone actually stating and showing some text from any history site, that says a war or a slaughter match was brought on by an atheist or atheists?

Can any one of you guys list any war that was started by atheists?

Can any of you recall any history where atheists have killed and destroyed others for having a faith in anything?

I am NOT an atheist..no far from it...I have read numerous threads on nothing but HOLY WARS..so I just wondered if there any wars that atheists have been responcible for....it would be intresting to read any notes ...please feel free to post any


IMO I cant think of any...but who knows, someone might...

i really do not know, i'm thinking probably not......

Id say it would take a lot and I mean a lot of researching...it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack I guess..but ya never know!!

Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong. Three of the bloodiest names in history. All of them atheists, all of them restricting the freedom of religious expression (by all accounts, the same as a Christian crusade). There are of course people who will try and show how it's not atheism but some other ideological reason for their crusade of terror. And people accept that. Funny thing is, when peopel try and show how a religious crusade was not the result of religion but some other ideological reason (the need for territory, for example), people ignore it and blame religion anyway.

that's just my observation though.

3 people!! when you compare that to holy killings and wars..what would outweight it...LOL no prizes guess eh..but wow 3 people through out history..thats not bad going..when you think of the amount of those that killed in the name of God and still do today...but thanks for the 3 names!

Still have yet to see an atheist to start a war that has shocked and destroyed ....IMO there is prolly none heard of...

I should also note that those three names have all been in the last hundred years when Atheism really has started to take off as a valid belief structure. Hmm, when atheism grows in popularity so do the wars by atheists. Coincidence? Or human nature.

I dunno PA..I doubt it somehow, atheists have been on this earth just as long as those that are religious...you cant argue that one LOL

I cant see a handful of Atheists ever really caring that much to start a war of any kind....Any atheist I have ever met or read about, dont really give a monkies if there are believer or not...they dont care...they have however had their backs up against anyone that has preached to them..heck I too have had my back up a few times when some people cant understand the words NO and please go away LOL...it happens

But ytou mentioned the 3 bloodiest names in history PA...I find that weird, but when you look at it from a world wide scale...and if you where to try and imagine..the amount of killings and wars this planets has suffered....I seriously doubt..those 3 atheist guys are the 3 bloodiest names throughout history as we know it

Actually PA...if you want some of the bloodiest names in history...and ok since you want to only go back a couple of hundred years ok by me...but think of the amount of SERIEL KILLERS...I for one would say Jack the Ripper would go down as one of the bloodies killers in the past couple of hundred years...others like him...heck Hitler would count LOL...if you like look at recent years even..charles manson and his family ect ect ect...and it has nothing to do with religion..or simply choosing NOT to believe(appart from hitler) <--off of that is a different issue I guess..but I made that point cuz you classed these men as the bloodiest names in history LOL

Anyhoo..it would still be intresting to see if an atheist has been responcible for any wars...this I would love to see

Thank you

Stalin never started any wars, I don't know much of Mao and I've never heard of Pol so I can't say much for them. But Stalin never started a war, although he did kill his own people in his police state country, so really only (perhaps) two athesists started any wars (the question was "have any athesists ever started any wars). Russia only went to war with Germany after when Hitler had almost reached stalingrad - stalin didn't beleive Hitler had invaded for a long while - hence the beggining of the "Patriotic War", then the Russians invaded Germany and literally crushed them with no help from the west (the Russains were advancing from the east), the Russians finally crippled the Germans which made Hitler commit suicide - with Russains over the borders and the UK, France and USA slightly advancing from the west into Germany.
The only close call to war was the Cuba missile crisis, but by then Kruschev had lightened the censorship of religion and other censorships - 'specially anything do with downgrading Stalin was highly accepted. Though that was solved by the US agreeing not to interfere with Cuba if the Russians took the nuclear missiles off of Cuba, while the US took their nuclear weapons off of Turkey.

Funny thing is, when people try to show how a religious crusade was the result of religion, people that don't wish to hear it interject the pretext , it was for territory, etc... Well, it was actually. The crusades were wars undertaken by papal sanction.
That's why the banner of christ adorned certain of the warriors for the cause. The red cross. Think "Crusaders" here.
So, if the crusades were undertaken by papal sanction religion is the progenitor of the campaign. And true enough, it does gain territory. For the furtherance of the faith! But you see, that was part of the purpose. Occupation in the name of god.

Now, lets move on to Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin. You contend they initiated these conflicts in the name of Atheism. To further Atheism, across the globe. Fascinating, I thought it was socialism. Mao's principles of war embraced that of Marxist-Leninism.
And Karl Marx was not an Atheist. Karl Marx decried all theistic models. Including Atheism. Karl Marx fore swore the god ideologies as well as the articles of believing none of that exists at all. Karl Marx was a humanist. Pro-man. Pro-materialism, Pro-ego, Pro-dominion in the name of man. Religion in any guise, even those that concern themselves with the ideology they must believe there to be no god thing to believe in, were held in disdain by Marx.

Socialism therefore, does not promote that which is given no credence at all by the principles that articulate the socialist campaign. It is not a campaign that was waged to interject Atheism upon the victims in it's path, it was not waged to obscure god from the face of the planet and interject another non-theist ideology upon the masses, the socialism of Mao , Stalin and Pol Pot held one thing in common, none of the theistic ideologies, including the identity of atheism, were acknowledged. It's zeal was to install a complete command over goods and services. It was gluttony, greed, enslavement of the common man under that ideology they were all serving one another by serving together the government that served them. Communism!

One can claim those campaigns were waged in the name of Atheism, but that would be in error and express an ignorance of the philosophy, the impetus, behind Communism and Marxist-Leninist-(Maoist) ideologies. Believers claim it was in the name of Atheism because religion was given no credence in a philosophy that commanded complete control over all social and economic activity. In effect, slave labor. And as such, because it was a grist to the mill bottom line, (supply and demand). Destroying articles of faith, intangible deific models weren't the progenitor of the movement, greed for world domination was. You enslave people, with people. There is no god, therefore there is no need to campaign that there is no god. Believers often think these wars were in the name of atheism, but that's only because religion was no where in the picture, so it has to be in the name of a philosophy that gives credibility to a god, by claiming it has to establish itself by first crediting there is even something there in the first place, so as to be denied as existing at all.

Marx, a materialist, found that patently absurd. As did the articles and principles of Socialism. Which compelled Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin.

WW1. That war started over an assassination. Vietnam...Um....Iraq.....The Korean War....the civil war........yep that's all I can think of.

whats that got to do with atheists?? like atheists starting wars like how we have holy wars..only in their case wars on those who follow God???

QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Dec 23 2006, 04:16 PM)


When you do something in "somebody's" name it means that person, or movement is somehow causing, influencing or inspiring what it is you are doing. Lust for power inspired Stalin,Pol Pot, Mao Zedong not the inexistence of God. The "one true God" inspired the genocide committed by Moses. To say that there is no significant or relevant difference between the two cases is naive.

These people are not the paradigm of what atheism can do to a person. They are the paradigm of what happens when people become intolerant.

How can one honestly link fascism and atheism? If anything, fascism is far closer to theism which is always telling people exactly how to live their life. Atheism, at least in the present context, is more closely associated with liberalism.

Besides, the point is not whether more people have been killed by atheists or theists. The point is that far more people have been killed in the name of religion than have been killed in the name of atheism.

Yea I know, but according to SoulSlayer we have had big wars like WW1 & The Koreanwar ect all started over those believing in God or A god for that matter and ALL started and controlled by nothing but atheists.....hmmmm something tells me S.Slayer did not really think much about this one..ohh well!! And at least PA did a lil research and tried to get his head around it...gotta hand it to him..he gave a few names..and its a start

OOOOOOOOoooooh. There are none. Why would there be? I mean there would be no motive behind it. See the religions have motives, but Atheists don't. For them it would just be a murder spree. not a holy war.

I have a feeling there is none either...and it makes you wonder...just who is more evil...those that start holy wars and those that dont care for anything holy !!

But even religious have went on murder spree's and their motive was not religion...the holy wars have left such a nasty scar on this earth and its always going to happen..I believe in live and let live...so what if someone dont believe in what you believe, we are all not going to agree on the same thing...heck even religious people from all over, will fight with eachother...that is one thing that will never in the month of Sundays change

The important thing to note is that (as far as I know) there has been no significantly large numbers of deaths related to spreading athiesm. An athiest starting wars has nothing to do with the war itself, UNLESS, it's to get rid of religion. There's been many instances in history where one religious culture would brutally attack another different religious culture, because their religion is "inferior". On top of that many aboriginal cultures were destroy in a display of one religions might. "Either you agree with us, or you die." A sad example is the southern american indians in the 15th to 17th centuries, but there's too many to list.

I think the foundation of war isn't necessarily a direct relation to religious convictions, although many times that's what it seemed like. Some people are just stupid....only thing I can think of.

Winter War with Finland. Nov 30, 1939 to March 1940

I know its not really on topic, but are you saying that Stalin did not believe that the Germans had invaded until after they had invaded once, been pushed back, and were running out of momentum on their second offensive?

oohhh damn forgot about Finland. That was after the Germans and Russians devided Poland - Russians getting the east and Germans the west I think...

also no, Stalin refused to beleive that Hitler had invaded - due to the "non-agression pact", which stated they'd not go to war with one another for 10 years, Stalin did not trust Hitler so used all the time he had to build up heavy industries. - But Stalin only began to retaliate when Hitler almost reaced Stalingrad - Hitler wanted the Oil and Stalingrad was in the way.

Aren't all wars murder spree's!? Isn't it anti-god, a heresy, to call a war on life holy!? One would think it would not go hand in hand with what is purported to be a god of love and mercy. But it does. And in the process it gains it's dominion in the name of that inspiration. The difference between the campaign of communism and holy wars is the clerical aspect of the war made holy is suppose to dissuade the critical eye from seeing that it is fought for the same un-reason as are all wars. Dominion. The facade of an invisible entity that seemingly blesses the slaughter, does not detract from the slaughter that is in effect to gain man his command over others he deems worthy of being ruled and exploited. War's aren't fought to free people, save to free them to live under the dominion of the victor. No war ever brought a measure of peace, save for what happens to quiet down after the victims have run out of bodies to sacrifice against a blood thirsty offense. Peace is not ever really "won" by war. Because what is peace but the privilege of living under someone else's rules. What is freedom, but to be free to do the same.

The difference being, whether or not religion is what initiated the crusades or not, it playes the main role in the crusades.

Gw, i was hoping you would post, thanks for the info.....



The moment man excepted that he was seperate from god, from life, from himself , from others, not becasue one has actually experinced this but becasue organized religon has told you were, the fighting began, and continues to this day ...IMO it starts here, this one beleif.. and until this belif is recognized as a falsehood the wars will continue.....

religion is a product of ones birthplace , early conditoioning, even if you have not been formally raised in religion you are affected by the beleifs, this is a fact....religion is our society........it is a product, it is not eternal truth , many believe this only because they have been taught too.....


Everything and everyone in life are experinced as being one with you in the moment, it is in this awareness you except you are one with god/lifeyour neighbor, the plants ect... whatever you call it, it doesn't matter.....This is something EVERY master has taught and all mystics have reported ....heaven is experincing this oneness... period......

This is the only spiritual teaching you will ever need...its as simple as that........if this was the new religion all wars would stop tommorow.....

If an atheist country attacked a religious country over beliefs then it would be a religious war...because atheism in this cause would be considered a religion. The atheist country would have a firm set of beliefs. If that country believes that it needs to end religion then that would be part of their atheist beliefs.

Atheism could be considered a religion:

1. It has a firm set of beliefs, all atheist deny the existene of a god.
2. It has a mythology of sorts, Big Bang Theory and Evolution.
3. Members of the religion meet and discuss the religion on a regular basis.

It is true that wars have bin started over religion, but it is also true that if there where no religions the would be no wars. In a lot of cases religion is just use as a cover to hide the governments true intentions, but fighting for religion gives you the support of the people. Governments will always fight for money, power, and land before they fight for religion.

Forgive me if I interject that Atheism does not meet the definition accorded "religion".

Also, during the crusades period, in reply to that reference in your statement, the church and government were one mutual power, installed over the people. So that the secular and religious were intertwined. And that during the first crusade in 1071 in Palestine, (christians against the muslims) Pope Urban II said the sins of anyone that went to fight for the church in the holy land, would be forgiven!? That it was not a sin to kill an infidel (muslim)? In total there were 8 crusades. All sanctioned by the church, thus all fought in the name of religion and under the blessing of the Pope. That forgave his people their sins if they went forth and killed other people. Why? Because as infidels they weren't really considered "other people" equal to those sent to kill them , in the eyes of the church that orchestrated the slaughter for the land and dominion of the faith, or their god.

Holy war. No such thing. War is war. For man's sake. God is merely the excuse the apologists of that time and today, if we look to the U.S. & George W. in Iraq (and soon to be Iran, bet on it). God is said to have given man dominion over the heavens and the earth, but the creation of a god figure, by man has given that man made god dominion over all people. What a legacy then, this god has. The streets of his heaven said to be paved with gold. Garnered from where one wonders. Perhaps the looting of other nations coffers!? However long is road and broad is the way unto that paradise. Paved with the flesh and blood of infidel and believer. The gods of rage, appeased by the sacrifice of the slaves.



edit server glitch. Anyone else notice that happening alot lately? 5 replies, but 0 views, etc...?

Where the Crusades fought more for power or more for religion? Probobly both...but if their was no power to be gained from it would the war have ever happened?

Athiesm is very close to being a religion by my definition. What's a religion anyways? An organized group of people who share the same beliefs.

What difference does it make who started what? Wars suck, period. Sometimes (very rarely) violence is necessary, most often it's not. I hope that someday we can live in a world where powerful men are wise enough to consider war too bitter a fruit to eat.

Remember the line from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life

"I killed 15 of the buggers myself. Back home they'd hang me. Out here I'll get an f'in' medal."

Perhaps by your definition Atheism is close to being a religion. However I dare say if you asked an Atheist if they believed it so you would perhaps receive a contrary response from that Atheist to whom you spoke.

[b]Religion: [/b]Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


If indeed an organized group of people who share the same beliefs are a religion, then PETA would qualify to be a religion. As would NOW, GLAAD, etc....

Um wouldnt the powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe be the law of physics? Are you saying athiest dont have values? Isnt Einstien and Darwin exalted above an every day man?
Arent athiest a little to zealous on converting christians to the "truth".

Well, since I don't have a pack of them standing behind me, so I cant reply, "most Atheists...." So, I'll answer for myself.


Physics is scientific theory, as religion is speculative faith. Creator doesn't enter into it for me. More like infinite, faceless indifferent (particular to my beingness) power.

No

And, heck no. How would I zealously, by every meaning of that word, convert anyone to the "truth"? Run around screaming: "NOTHING! There's NOTHING Supernatural out there that gives squat all about you! You aren't special just because you recognize yourself in your own reflection and have an ego that thinks that actually means more on this planet than anything else with one to!"

Nope, that's rather unrealistic. Truth is, no one knows, however given what we're told god means to most, I'd like to think nothing would be that sorry and at the same time qualify to be deific. Therefore, given all I've read of what it means to believe in god, I'd rather believe in something higher, which in relative comparison, would be nothing of the sort.

What a riot...I have never in my entire life, heard of an Atheist trying to convert a christian to anything...LMAO that is so funny...sorry but it sure is...whats next a door to door atheist preacher, looking to tell you all about the not-so-good book?? ..catch yourself on LMAO..

for thanks for the funnies

War started by atheists?

The Russian Revolution. The Communists, who were atheists, revolted to overthrow the Russian Czar.

The Korean War. The Communists invaded South Korea.

The Viet Nam War, the Communists invaded South Viet Name.

The Communist Revolution in Cambodia, Pol Pot, leader of the Communists, committed horrible atrocities.

You may want to argue that the wars were not in the name of atheism, but that wasn't the original question. These wars were started by Communists, who are atheists and require an atheist society for communism to take root, so by spreading Communism they were, in effect, spreading atheism.

You just don't hang around the right message boards.
And in that count yourself lucky.

Hey, you were in the army, so havent you ever heard of "commander's intent"? It is quite evident from her post what her intent was, as is evidence by "Can any of you recall any history where atheists have killed and destroyed others for having a faith in anything?"

Hey, you were in the army, so havent you ever heard of "commander's intent"? It is quite evident from her post what her intent was, as is evidence by "Can any of you recall any history where atheists have killed and destroyed others for having a faith in anything?"

Someone being an atheist doesn't necessarily have ANYTHING to do with religion, or physics, laws of science. A lot of people would like to relate atheists to religious zealots because of personal convictions, as in regards to nature. That means jack squat when it comes to the definition of religion. All an atheist is , is someone that doesn't believe in god/supreme being. Their belief that the big bang theory is true.. or they believe creationism is a joke and evolution is the origin of man, and so on, has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion. The misconception people are making is that the probability that an atheist believes these things, therefore makes it a dogma. It's just a common happenstance that a lot of atheists believe evolution is real and occuring, etc. I urge you to reread any definition of religion and reasonabley come to the same conclussion. Relevance does not equal common occurance.

What makes your defintion valid? Have you ever studied religion?

The anthropological definition of Religion is,

–An organized system of ideas about spiritual reality, or the supernatural, along with associated beliefs and ceremonial practices by which people try to interpret and control aspects of the universe otherwise beyond their control.

So Atheism is not a religion.

When studying rocks you go to Geology, when studying religion you go to Anthropology.

I’ve posted this definition before, but like in the past it will most likely be overlooked.

The second the atheist brothers and sisters of the world take up arms, I've got an extra gun for them.



Wars started by atheists... I'm sure there are more then a few. Based on human behavior and more then not human greed which is perfectly natural.


What do religious wars base their ideas on? Some "faith".

I'm not sure really what is worse... False belief or that amount of greed.

Religion has great control over people, so when governments utilize religion they have even greater power at hand to wage war. Wars are unpopular, but when you can rally people to war in the name of a deity, you have much greater motivation for time and resources. It is actually a very smart idea if you are into the war machine. Constatine found this out by appeasing both pagan and christians. But I still have not quite figured out why the catholics and protestants are still going at it. I thought christians were supposed to love one another not blow themselves up like the sunnis and shiites.

I'm not arguing that. I'm only arguing that it's in recent times that atheism has grown to the extent that it is no longer a minority belief, indeed one that can influence the entirety of society.

On the majority, I'd agree with you. But then again, I've never met a religious person who wanted to start a Holy Crusade, though i ahve read about them. But I have met an atheist who wanted to beat me up just because I was a Christian. I was having a discussion, and i threw in a one-liner joke about God. As soon as I mentioned the 'G' word, he stood up and yelled at me - DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT *expletive deleted* GOD!. He then stomped away. His friend later apologized to me on his behalf and told me this guy has issues with God-folk.

I can only postulate what would have happened had I been the type to try and talk about God all the time.

Actually, I said three of the bloodiest, not the three bloodiest. There's a subtle difference. The first implies that these three rank above and beyond any other individual in history. The second simply ranks them up with other people of similar calibre.

Stop everything. Stop the press. Call in the apocalypse. Kratos - good post
*though to spoil the good mood just a touch, I'd put most wars (religious ones included) as a result of human behaviour and greed.

Is this some kind of wit??

LOL PA he said wars in ref to pure and utter GREED...<--which is in the heart of many wars LOL but this is about an atheist starting a war over someones religious beliefs LOL

Put hey if you can post more wars on how athiests have started wars on religious terms...ohh please do, this will be intresting..and im not being sarcastic...cheers!

PS do you remember the thread I once made about atheist that may have killed religious people for their beliefs?..I was trying to point out that it was not just religious people that have killed or tortured others, I was making a point that maybe atheists have done it too..and man that thread got some mixed responces...mostly from atheists and those that said they where agnostic...but this timke I wanted to hear from religious folk..see what they might know!

There's an old quote that reads: "Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color." Don Hirschberg

No war has ever been started to spread the "faith" of Atheism. To say that because the people that started or continued the campaign of war were Atheists and that , by implication, means they were of the intention to spread Atheism is to wrongly interpret the philosophies of Communism and Socialism. Every war's first impetus was acquisition. Representative of that simple human predisposition for materialism. (greed) Religion is the second and often times co-factor in the process of engaging in war. However, Atheism has never been the sole cause or impetus to start a war. No dictator ever said, let's invade our neighbor and make them not believe!
The same can not be said however, for those that claim they engage in such campaigns in the name of a beneficent invisible authority, so as to spread their faithful message and make others to abdicate their faiths and convert to the new one. In the war of the worlds, logic and superstition, it can be said that superstition has destroyed in large part, the world and her people. Making them subjects to dogma that makes them subjects to an invisible tyrant that makes them to believe they are less than because they are born in deficit, as they are created in it's image. Atheism is realism in a world besieged by terrors in the name of superstitions.

Well, sometimes commander's intent requires that you also read betweent the lines or that you take into account the various ways in which it can be interpreted.

The communist philosophy requires that the STATE take the place of any other god. The State takes care of all the needs, the State provides the moral compass, whatever the State requires of it's people, is right and proper. So, to spread Communism required destroying all other faiths.

So I continue to posit that the spread of Communism through violent revolutions were wars where atheists killed and destroyed others for having a faith in anything.

I don't think so.

Really thats odd.............. thats extremely propagandist on your part!!

I would think that the spread of Communism through violent revolutions were wars where COMMUNISTS killed and destroyed others for having a faith in anything.

It sounds like your ever so slyly trying to correlate atheism with communism. In fact not one Atheist I know would ever condone or relate to Communism.

I am an atheist. However, I think a big flaw in any way of thinking is to say "this is it" and "you are wrong" when we don't know that for sure.

When you ask if any war has been started by atheists, it reminds me of comments in both Sam Harris's book "The End of Faith" and Dawkins "The God Delusion" where they say all people are atheists. But I just add one more god to my list of those I do not believe in. Your god.

To some degree it can be argued that all religious wars are atheist in nature because the fight is about rejecting another persons belief system. So even if it was the crusades, the Christians were rejecting the pagan gods.

Where it gets tangled is in the three Judeo Christian Muslim beliefs who all say they believe in the same "God" and reject the messengers. Its funny how just a few years ago people would say "Judeo Christian God" but now Islam has been pulled in as well.

These three religions share the same God and they are dominating the world with their fight over the message.

I would wager, as PA has hinted at, that the new wars are coming and they will be between the Science and the Religions.

I do agree with people trying to "convert" people to "Evolutionists" as a new religion.

The key here to me is a belief system that is shared. Evolutionists might not believe in a "God" per se. But they think they have the answer and are hostile to those who don't accept it. They try to force this belief on people as if it is a FACT. But its a "scientific fact" which is not the same thing as a fact. A scientific fact basically requires a measure of faith to believe in it. I know people will disagree with me on this and act as though I am stupid but I see that Science is becoming a new religion.

All religions were basically started to come up with a code and standard of living. Science is doing this in the modern world. It dictates what we are taught and also what we are allowed to say. Its slowly creeping in to our society as the "Answer" and the energy associated with this effort is really sad because its so similar to the way "Religion" and "God" was pushed as the "answer" in the past.

I also agree that you can't say that Communism had nothing to do with atheism. It insisted on stopping the belief in God. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Humanism would allow humans to believe what they wished on their own time. Communism did not do that.

And then judge which of those "ways" was the intended way... and in this case it was clear.



First of all, communism (the political philosophy itsself, not in reference to any past communist countries) does not fundamentally depend onatheism. Anyway... the spread of communism was based on wanting to spread communism, it was not based on wanting to eliminate faith...

Unless, of course... do you claim that the USs enterance into the Vietnam War was in order to eliminate atheism? To stop atheism's spread?

Based on human greed and behavior is a bit different then the greed and behavior for a god that is in the sky.

A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend.



Actually atheists have been here longer, if you want to believe evolution and the history of our species. Religion is a man-made concept that came long after we first started out on this floating rock.

Oooppss you are right LOL I forgot !!

No, I am in no way, slyly or otherwise, trying to correlate atheism with communism or say that all atheists are communists. But whether communism was not intended to be an atheist form of government or not as Stellar is arguing, that is the way it was and is practiced by those governments which call themselves communist.

It seems that now that someone has pointed out that there are wars which have been fought to spread the atheist belief, people are trying to deflect or inflame the discussion, so I will take my argument where I was eventually going to lead it:

Wars, whether fought to spread a religious or political system are really fought because man is a violent being who will only respond to greater violence or strength. As we fight the Islamo-fascists we need to remember that. If we try to be "advanced" and "civilized" we will end up losing. The only way to end this situation is the same that it always has been whether dealing with a school-yard bully or a terrorist group: Show them that you will not back down and that you are willing to take this farther and harder that they can.