http://videos.caught-on-video.com/video/7e...81c00ea5aad.htm

Explain this

Hes just stupid. I think it amounts to another Bushism. Or mybe he was drunk on the Cipro.

It's been talked about many times on this forum and no explanation will probably convince you but there is a possiblility.
Bush has never been known to be a great public speaker. There used to be many, many websites devoted to nothing but his verbal faux pas. he trips over his own words even when provided with a script with no words more than two syllables. For Bush to have said and meant that he saw the first crash on TV, he would have had to not screw up his words and say exactly what he means not only once but twice. He could very easily have meant that he saw that a crash had happened as we all did as every news station in the area had cameras on the towers shortly after the first crash. It is not unreasonable to think there were some TVs on in the school showing the news. I graduated high school in 95 and even back in the mid 80s when I got out of elementary school, every classroom had a TV mounted on the wall.

So what ure saying is that a local station had a live feed of the first plane hitting the towers, ok but id like to have a search around and find the tv stations that transmit to that area and ask someone.

No that is not what I said. I said all the news stations were showing the towers and the smoke pouring out of them shortly after the impact. If he tripped over his words, which is not unlikely, then he could have meant that he saw that a plane had hit the towers as everyone else did.

...just like there is a possibility that you are a bush- ite as well? Not being a good speaker does not necessitate or give way to giving false leading testimony. There is a point to which not being a good speaker is pertinent but when giving eyewitness testimony then that held in account. It doesnt matter how many times it has been addressed, if the outcome of the discussion ends up as "because he isnt a good speaker" then the discussion is by far from over.

Let's say that you take offense at my 'possibility of you being a bush- ite', so if I told you, well im just not good of a speaker so then you must take it as not being stated at all?

A single word ommited changes the whole meaning. "I saw a plant hit the tower" vs "I saw a plane had hit the tower".

This is george bush we're talking about, the guy is practically retarded when it comes to public speaking. You're reading to much into the quote.

By the way, I'm not a bush-ite, I hate the guy.

george bush; the tree that dont fall far from the nuts isnt iliterate nor a grade school drop-out. Clearly it is obvious he is capable of expressing eye witness testimony. You are kidding yourself to try and make believe in the notion of 'incapacity'.

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

A...ha...ha..ha. You really believe that?

and you really dont? he must be making speeches for the benefit of mickey mouse right? his speeches has no bearing to introduce new policies and military actions according to you so lets see.. when he makes speeches people dont believe him yet perform according to his invisible friend spot.

Thank you el midgetron. That helps to illustrate my point. There are many more examples where that came from. And for the record, I am not a bush-ite. but I don't take offense at the "possibility" that I might be. I still just think it is far more likely that Bush is an idiot. I said earlier he would trip over his words if they were written out with nothing more than two syllables. I take that back. I think he would screw it up if everything was a single syllable, if he had practiced it for weeks beforehand and if the speech was only a sentence long. He would find a way.

even a fool is liable for his claims otherwise ignorance of the law is an excuse.

me? no. Just illustrating that you cant take everything Bush says word for word. I would say the things he says are a 50/50 split between nonsense and lies.

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." —Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001

just six months later, while ground zero is still being cleared...................

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." —Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

at this point it is apparant to say... there is no such thing as presidential advisors or cabnet members that disagree.

So you think it's more likely that this is some sort of confession than an accidental omission of a "that" or "had"?

What he said: "I saw a plane hit the tower"

What he most likely meant: "I saw that a plane hit the tower" or "I saw a plane had hit the tower".

You really believe that an accidental confession is more likely than him not speaking clearly?

This is the guy we're talking about: http://youtube.com/watch?v=0qDuG0ZYD5I

Normally I dont count the following as a monumental achievement but to point out the obvious to you during this fanatical yet comical charade and effort to find an excuse... Bush got a 'C' average at Yale and acquired a Masters of Business Administration degree from Harvard Business School. That is obviously good enough to show that he can give eye witness testimony and be held accountable for his testimony given. Like it or not he is commander in chief and what he says can cause death or preserve life. Bush's academic performance was on par if not slightly better than that of his better-spoken, fellow Yalie and cousin John Kerry.

Oh you got me. Clearly someone with a C average at Yale will never misspeak a single word.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XdmVXHtgooI

Everyone new that an airplane had hit the tower. And there was immediate footage of the event. Memory is a funny thing. I didn't know the video of the first plane surfaced the next day...I thought I was seeing both planes hit both towers over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over................yeah, like George Bush has never mis-spoke...good grief, Charlie Brown!

now that's what I call unecessary and a fanatical attempt to excuse Bush out of accountability. Having to spam out of desperation?

Accountability for what!?


I think what you saw was a completely understandable illustration of frustration at the asinine theories that continually get expounded regarding 9-11...the absolute silliness of it all.

Anyone, with a lick of common sense, and an appreciation of our President's plain spoken manner, as well as his sometime's awkward slips of the tongue, realizes full well that he was seeing exactly what everyone else in America was seeing...that a plane had hit the first tower. They also realize that's precisely what he meant in the video clip posted here (as he couldn't have seen it actually hit the tower, since that was reserved for eyewitnesses). It is also apparent that he thought what most everyone else in America thought about it at that moment.

What's he accountable for (other than the security and protection of United States citizens, and the many other responsibilities of his office)?


A slip of the tongue which is meaningless?

No, I think joc's frustration, however over-stated ( )...is perfectly understandable given the utter illogic in some of these conspiracy theories.

The following pretty much will spell it out for you MID whether its sooner or later, here you go bub

http://www.truthuncovered.com/clips.php

The experts involved in the documentary:

THE EXPERTS


David Albright

David Albright is a physicist, nuclear weapons expert, and former weapons inspector with the IAEA Action team. Albright served on the Department of Energy Openess Advisory Panel. Currently Albright is the President of the Institute for Science and International Security. He holds a Masters of Science in physics from Indiana University and a Masters of Science in Mathematics from Wright State University. top

Robert Baer

Robert Baer is a former CIA operative who served for twenty-five years in Iraq and Lebanon. In 1998 the CIA awarded him the Career Intelligence Medal. Baer recently wrote and published, �Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold It's Soul for Saudi Crude�. Baer's earlier memoir, "See No Evil: The True Story of a Foot Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism," is currently being developed as a motion picture by Oscar-winning filmmaker Steven Soderbergh and actor/producer George Clooney. top

Milt Bearden

Milt Bearden rose through the ranks of the CIA to become on of the agency's most highly decorated operations officers in its Senior Service. He retired from the CIA after a thirty-year career. Bearden headed up the CIA's Soviet/Eastern European division as the Soviet Union was coming undone. He was the CIA station chief in Pakistan and was responsible for that agency's covert action program in support of the Afghan resistance to the Soviet-supported government. Bearden served in the Air Force before joining the CIA. Bearden recently co-authored the book, "Main Enemy: The Inside Story of the CIA's Final Showdown with the KGB." top

Rand Beers

Rand Beers is a former Special Assistant to President Bush and Senior Director for combating terrorism. Beers is a 30 year-plus intelligence veteran who has held various positions in the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs. Additionally, he has served three times on the National Security Council staff and was Deputy Political Advisor to the Supreme Allied Commander, Europe. Beers resigned in March of 2003, five days before the start of the Iraq War, and is currently the National Security Advisor for John Kerry's campaign. Beers received a BA from Dartmouth and an MA from the University of Michigan. top

Bill Christison

Bill Christison worked for the Central Intelligence Agency for over 28 years. He ended his CIA career as the Director of the Office of Regional and Political Analysis, an office of over 200 experts on all nations and global problems of the world. top

David Corn

Washington editor of the Nation magazine and a Fox News Channel contributor. He has written for the Washington Post, the New York Times, Harper's, The New Republic, Mother Jones, Washington Monthly, Slate, Salon and many other publications. He has long been a political commentator on television and radio. He is the author of the novel "Deep Background," and the biography "Blond Ghost: Ted Shackley and the CIA's Crusade." top

Philip Coyle

Philip Coyle, assistant secretary of defense and director of operational test and evaluation at the Pentagon from 1994 to 2001. He is currently a senior adviser to the Center for Defense Information in Washington, D.C. top

John Dean

John Dean is most famously known as Richard Nixon's White House lawyer for the thousand days during the Watergate scandal. He is currently a respected legal and political analyst. His analysis is from the point of view of someone who has been inside. John Dean currently works as a writer, lecturer and private investment banker. He recounted his days in the Nixon White House in two books, �Blind Ambition� (1976) and �Lost Honor� (1982). He recently published �Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush�. top

Patrick Eddington

Patrick Eddington is a former CIA imagery analyst, and is currently a private researcher, author, and international security consultant. Eddington resigned in 1996 after working on a book (�Gassed in the Gulf�) that exposed the gulf war syndrome. During his tenure at the CIA, his analytical assignments included monitoring the break up of the former Soviet Union; providing military assessments to policy makers on Iraqi and Iranian conventional forces and coordinating the CIA's military targeting support to NATO during Operation Deliberate Force in Bosnia in '95. Currently, Eddington serves as a lobbyist for the American Academy of Ophthalmology. Eddington's opinion pieces have appeared in a number of publications, including the Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Washington Times, Fort Worth Star-Telegram, and the Army Times, among others. Eddington is a frequent commentator on national security issues for the Fox News Channel, MSNBC, SKYNews, CNN, and other domestic and international television networks. top

Chas Freeman

Former Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Chas Freeman is currently the President of the Middle East Policy Council and Chairman of Projects International, Inc., a Washington D. C. - based business development firm. He previously served as Assistant Secretary of Defense and earned the highest DOD public service awards for his role in designing a NATO-centered post Cold War European security system and in re-establishing defense and military relations with China. Freeman earned a BA from Yale University and a JD from Harvard Law School. top

Graham Fuller

As the former Vice Chairman of the National Intelligence Council at the CIA, he served 20 years in the Foreign Service mostly in the Muslim world. After leaving government he served as Senior Political Scientist at RAND for twelve years where his work focused on the Middle East, Central Asia, South and Southeast Asia. He is currently an independent writer, analyst and consultant. He received his BA and MA at Harvard University in Russian and Middle Eastern Studies. top

Mel Goodman

Mel Goodman is a professor of International Security at the National War College and a Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy. From 1966-1986 he was a senior CIA soviet analyst. In 1991 he was one of three former CIA officials to testify before the Senate against the nomination of Robert Gates as director of central intelligence on grounds that he had slanted intelligence to suit policy. Currently, Goodman is co-author of the recently-published �Bush League Diplomacy: How the Neoconservatives are Putting the World at Risk.� He will be joining the Center for International Policy in the summer to lead their Intelligence Reform Project. top

Larry C. Johnson

Larry C. Johnson worked with the U.S. State Department's Office of Counter Terrorism from 1989-1993, and prior to that with the Central Intelligence Agency. Mr. Johnson has analyzed terrorist incidents for a variety of media including the Jim Lehrer News Hour, CNN and the BBC, and has authored several articles for publications. He has lectured on terrorism and aviation security around the world, and represented the U.S. Government at the July 1996 OSCE Terrorism Conference in Vienna, Austria. Mr. Johnson is a member of the American Society for Industrial Security. top

Dr. David Kay

In June 2003, President Bush directed that the hunt for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction be transferred to the Central Intelligence Agency who appointed Dr. David Kay to lead that search and direct the activities of the 1,400 members Iraq Survey Group. In January 2004 having concluded that there had been no stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq at the time of the war, Dr. Kay reported that conclusion and resigned his position. Currently, he is a Senior Fellow at the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies with a concentration on counter-terrorism and weapons proliferation. He also serves as an analyst for NBC and MSNBC and appears frequently as a commentator on proliferation and terrorism issues. top

John Brady Kiesling

Brady Kiesling was a member of Bush's Foreign Service Corps and Political Counselor to the American Embassy in Greece. Kiesling has been a diplomat for 20 years, a civil servant to four Presidents. He was the first diplomat to resign in a symbolic move to protest the administration's contempt for diplomacy. Kiesling spent last fall as a visiting fellow in the Hellenic Studies Program at Princeton University and speaking at various universities and conferences. top

Karen Kwiatkowski

Karen Kwiatkowski, a specialist on the Middle East and a recently retired USAF lieutenant colonel, who spent her final four and a half years in uniform working at the Pentagon, worked from May 2002 through February 2003 in the office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, Near East/South Asia and Special Plans at the Department of Defense. In the March 10, 2004, online edition of Salon, Karen Kwiatkowski's 4-page article, �The New Pentagon Papers� revealed how Defense Department extremists suppressed information and twisted the truth to drive the country to war. top

Patrick Lang

Patrick Lang is a strategic military and political intelligence analyst. As an independent consultant he is an expert trainer of U.S. and other personnel in requirements of operations in Muslim countries. From 1979 to 1985 he served as the senior U.S. military officer in the embassy in Saudi Arabia and Yemen. From 1985 to 1992 Lang was the Defense Intelligence Officer for the Middle East, South Asia and Terrorism. Lang served as a Commissioned Officer in the U.S. Army and earned a BA in English at Virginia Military Institute. top

Dr. David C. MacMichael

David MacMichael is a former CIA Analyst who started The Association of National Security Alumni. ANSA is an organization that seeks to expose and curtail covert actions because they �are counterproductive and damaging to the national interest of the United States, inimical to the operation of an effective national intelligence system, corruptive of civil liberties... and they contradict the principles of democracy, national self-determination and international law to which the United States is publicly committed.� David MacMichael resigned from the CIA rather than falsify his reports for political reasons. MacMichael graduated with an MA and Ph.D. in History from the University of Oregon. top

Ray McGovern

Ray McGovern was a CIA analyst from 1964 to 1990, and regularly reported to the vice president and senior policy-makers on the President's Daily Brief from 1981 to 1985. McGovern is a member of the steering group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) which is a non-partisan group of retired intelligence professionals who believe that the Bush Administration lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and inappropriately pressured the CIA to "cook the books" on the matter. McGovern is now co-director of the Servant Leadership School, an inner-city outreach ministry in Washington. top

Scott Ritter

Scott Ritter, a former marine captain from a military family, was the UN's top weapons inspector in Iraq until 1998. During the first Gulf War Ritter served as a ballistic missile expert under General Schwarzkopf and joined UNSCOM in 1991. Ritter later resigned claiming President Clinton was too easy on Sadaam. Before the recent Iraq invasion however, Ritter said the dictator didn't seem to have weapons of mass destruction and that trying to oust Hussein would be "very dangerous." top

The Rt Honorable Clare Short

Clare Short recently resigned her position as Tony Blair's secretary for international development because Blair did not support a UN coalition to rebuild Iraq. She entered the House of Commons in 1983 as the Member of Parliament (MP) for the Midlands constituency of Birmingham Ladywood, which she has held since then. From 1996 until the 1997 General Election she was Opposition spokesperson on overseas development. She was Shadow Minister for women from 1993 to 1995 and Shadow Secretary of State for Transport from 1995 to 1996. She has been Opposition spokesperson on environment protection, social security and employment. A member of the Home Affairs Select Committee from 1983 until 1985, she was Chair of the All-Party Group on Race Relations from 1985 to 1986, Member of the National Executive Committee (NEC) of the Labour Party since 1988, Chair of the NEC Women's Committee from 1993 to 1996 and Chair of the NEC International Committee since 1996. top

Stansfield Turner

Professor Turner is a Senior Research Scholar at the Center for International and Security Studies at Maryland. He served as Director of Central Intelligence from 1977-1981. As such, he headed both the Intelligence Community (composed of all of the foreign intelligence agencies of the United States) and the Central Intelligence Agency. He was responsible for developing new procedures for closer oversight of the Intelligence Community by Congress and the White House, led the Intelligence Community in adapting to a new era of real-time photographic satellites and instituted major management reform at the CIA. Previously as an Admiral in the U.S. Navy he served as commander of the U.S. Second Fleet and NATO Striking Fleet Atlantic, and as the commander-in-chief of NATO's Southern Flank. Turner has published four books, "Secrecy and Democracy" (1985), "Terrorism and Democracy" (1991), "Caging the Nuclear Genies" (1997), and "Caging the Genies: A Workable Plan for Nuclear, Chemical and Biological Weapons" (1998). top

The Honorable Henry Waxman

Henry A. Waxman represents California's 30th Congressional District. Since 1997, Rep. Waxman has served as ranking member of the Government Reform Committee, the principal investigative committee in the House. Rep. Waxman recently sent a letter to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice asking her to answer questions about the extent of her knowledge of Iraq nuclear claims, whether there were White House efforts to mislead the public, and how the discredited uranium claim got into the NIE. Waxman holds a bachelor's degree in political science from UCLA and a J.D. from the UCLA Law School. top

Thomas E. White

Thomas E. White became the 18th Secretary of the Army on May 31, 2001, after nomination to that post by President Bush and confirmation by the United States Senate. He served in the US Army for 23 years from 1967-2000 and retired as a brigadier general. After a series of high-profile clashes with Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz over Iraq planning and army modernization issues, White resigned from his post as army secretary in early 2003. During his tenure, White was also hounded by allegations regarding his role in the Enron debacle. But despite being questioned by Congress, White was never charged. White has continued his criticism of Defense Department decision-making vis-à-vis Iraq, arguing in a 2003 book entitled "Reconstructing Eden." top

Joseph C. Wilson

Joe Wilson is the former Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Iraq. More recently, Wilson served as the Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. At the behest of Vice President Cheney, Wilson went to Niger to determine the credibility of documents claiming that Sadaam Hussein had purchased "yellow cake" uranium from that country. Wilson debunked the claims as false yet the accusation appeared in President Bush's State of the Union address. Wilson claims the White House deliberately leaked his wife's identity as a covert CIA operative after he wrote an article for the NY Times revealing that the Niger-uranium claims made by the White House were false. Wilson is currently on tour for his recently published New York Times best-selling book, "The Politics of Truth: Inside the Lies That led to War and Betrayed My Wife's CIA Identity." top

Colonel Mary Ann Wright

Colonel Mary Ann Wright is the former Ambassador to Mongolia who resigned on the eve of the war with Iraq. Ms. Wright was a diplomat for fifteen years and the Deputy Chief of Mission in the U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia, and Afghanistan as part of the rebuilding team after the recent war. She has also had assignments in Somalia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Grenada and Nicaragua. Wright continues to speak out through TV, radio and newspaper interviews against the war in Iraq and other Bush administration policies including the lack of concern and effort to push the peace process along between the Israeli and Palestinians. top

Peter Zimmerman

Peter Zimmerman served as the Chief Scientist of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from August 2001 until January 2003. Before assuming his duties in the U.S. Senate, he was a senior fellow in arms control and verification at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a former technical adviser to the U.S. delegation to the START talks. top

S a lot of emphasis here on him being a C student at yale,
that is not an excuse,
i mean thats a fine education. Even a C student from community college could make a statement correctly on when he/she first seen the plane and where they where.
never mind the supposdly president of the united states.

When all is said and done, people are asking us to take something that Bush said in public and think of it as serious evidence...

The man's public speaking abilities just don't lend themselves to giving that sort of claim any credibility.

Your claim is solely based on opinion and if this were not the case, hypothetically, you wouldnt find that many experts as mentioned above to be willing to testify against him. You and anyone here on this forum is by far nowhere near as credible as them in terms of 'inside' experience. Your opinion is noted but in noway should be taken as authorative.

Nor should it be, just as your opinion above should be taken as nothing more than an anonymous voice on the internet.

What I said has nothing to do with "inside experience", nor with testimony, nor with authority, nor with anything else of the kind. It is a very simple premise, based on something which is so well-known in the U.S. that there are even humor books out on the subjects. Bush is simply not a good public speaker. This is an opinion, true, but it is hardly my own, and I would venture to guess it is shared by a great majority of the U.S., and perhaps even foreign countries. Perhaps he is actually a brilliant public speaker in disguise, but that does not change the fact that he is perceived by many to be a bad public speaker, and it is intuitive logic to, when dealing with a man whom you do not regard to have good speaking skills, to not place a great deal of credibility on what those speaking skills produce.

This time, it seems to be another misguided rendezvous, left over stalagmites of your internal culture shock. The majority of expert texpert support the 911’s official version. So what do we do? Do we really need a play back of the show?

Let's go, let it go...unless you're a grand ‘insider’ authority? Which I doubt, so your opinion has no validity.

here it is again for you since you dont seem to bother reading then verifying, read it before "opening mouth and inserting foot":

The experts involved in the documentary:

THE EXPERTS


David Albright

David Albright is a physicist, nuclear weapons expert, and former weapons inspector with the IAEA Action team. Albright served on the Department of Energy Openess Advisory Panel. Currently Albright is the President of the Institute for Science and International Security. He holds a Masters of Science in physics from Indiana University and a Masters of Science in Mathematics from Wright State University. top

Robert Baer

Robert Baer is a former CIA operative who served for twenty-five years in Iraq and Lebanon. In 1998 the CIA awarded him the Career Intelligence Medal. Baer recently wrote and published, �Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold It's Soul for Saudi Crude�. Baer's earlier memoir, "See No Evil: The True Story of a Foot Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism," is currently being developed as a motion picture by Oscar-winning filmmaker Steven Soderbergh and actor/producer George Clooney. top

Milt Bearden

Milt Bearden rose through the ranks of the CIA to become on of the agency's most highly decorated operations officers in its Senior Service. He retired from the CIA after a thirty-year career. Bearden headed up the CIA's Soviet/Eastern European division as the Soviet Union was coming undone. He was the CIA station chief in Pakistan and was responsible for that agency's covert action program in support of the Afghan resistance to the Soviet-supported government. Bearden served in the Air Force before joining the CIA. Bearden recently co-authored the book, "Main Enemy: The Inside Story of the CIA's Final Showdown with the KGB." top

Rand Beers

Rand Beers is a former Special Assistant to President Bush and Senior Director for combating terrorism. Beers is a 30 year-plus intelligence veteran who has held various positions in the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs. Additionally, he has served three times on the National Security Council staff and was Deputy Political Advisor to the Supreme Allied Commander, Europe. Beers resigned in March of 2003, five days before the start of the Iraq War, and is currently the National Security Advisor for John Kerry's campaign. Beers received a BA from Dartmouth and an MA from the University of Michigan. top

Bill Christison

Bill Christison worked for the Central Intelligence Agency for over 28 years. He ended his CIA career as the Director of the Office of Regional and Political Analysis, an office of over 200 experts on all nations and global problems of the world. top

David Corn

Washington editor of the Nation magazine and a Fox News Channel contributor. He has written for the Washington Post, the New York Times, Harper's, The New Republic, Mother Jones, Washington Monthly, Slate, Salon and many other publications. He has long been a political commentator on television and radio. He is the author of the novel "Deep Background," and the biography "Blond Ghost: Ted Shackley and the CIA's Crusade." top

Philip Coyle

Philip Coyle, assistant secretary of defense and director of operational test and evaluation at the Pentagon from 1994 to 2001. He is currently a senior adviser to the Center for Defense Information in Washington, D.C. top

John Dean

John Dean is most famously known as Richard Nixon's White House lawyer for the thousand days during the Watergate scandal. He is currently a respected legal and political analyst. His analysis is from the point of view of someone who has been inside. John Dean currently works as a writer, lecturer and private investment banker. He recounted his days in the Nixon White House in two books, �Blind Ambition� (1976) and �Lost Honor� (1982). He recently published �Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush�. top

Patrick Eddington

Patrick Eddington is a former CIA imagery analyst, and is currently a private researcher, author, and international security consultant. Eddington resigned in 1996 after working on a book (�Gassed in the Gulf�) that exposed the gulf war syndrome. During his tenure at the CIA, his analytical assignments included monitoring the break up of the former Soviet Union; providing military assessments to policy makers on Iraqi and Iranian conventional forces and coordinating the CIA's military targeting support to NATO during Operation Deliberate Force in Bosnia in '95. Currently, Eddington serves as a lobbyist for the American Academy of Ophthalmology. Eddington's opinion pieces have appeared in a number of publications, including the Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Washington Times, Fort Worth Star-Telegram, and the Army Times, among others. Eddington is a frequent commentator on national security issues for the Fox News Channel, MSNBC, SKYNews, CNN, and other domestic and international television networks. top

Chas Freeman

Former Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Chas Freeman is currently the President of the Middle East Policy Council and Chairman of Projects International, Inc., a Washington D. C. - based business development firm. He previously served as Assistant Secretary of Defense and earned the highest DOD public service awards for his role in designing a NATO-centered post Cold War European security system and in re-establishing defense and military relations with China. Freeman earned a BA from Yale University and a JD from Harvard Law School. top

Graham Fuller

As the former Vice Chairman of the National Intelligence Council at the CIA, he served 20 years in the Foreign Service mostly in the Muslim world. After leaving government he served as Senior Political Scientist at RAND for twelve years where his work focused on the Middle East, Central Asia, South and Southeast Asia. He is currently an independent writer, analyst and consultant. He received his BA and MA at Harvard University in Russian and Middle Eastern Studies. top

Mel Goodman

Mel Goodman is a professor of International Security at the National War College and a Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy. From 1966-1986 he was a senior CIA soviet analyst. In 1991 he was one of three former CIA officials to testify before the Senate against the nomination of Robert Gates as director of central intelligence on grounds that he had slanted intelligence to suit policy. Currently, Goodman is co-author of the recently-published �Bush League Diplomacy: How the Neoconservatives are Putting the World at Risk.� He will be joining the Center for International Policy in the summer to lead their Intelligence Reform Project. top

Larry C. Johnson

Larry C. Johnson worked with the U.S. State Department's Office of Counter Terrorism from 1989-1993, and prior to that with the Central Intelligence Agency. Mr. Johnson has analyzed terrorist incidents for a variety of media including the Jim Lehrer News Hour, CNN and the BBC, and has authored several articles for publications. He has lectured on terrorism and aviation security around the world, and represented the U.S. Government at the July 1996 OSCE Terrorism Conference in Vienna, Austria. Mr. Johnson is a member of the American Society for Industrial Security. top

Dr. David Kay

In June 2003, President Bush directed that the hunt for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction be transferred to the Central Intelligence Agency who appointed Dr. David Kay to lead that search and direct the activities of the 1,400 members Iraq Survey Group. In January 2004 having concluded that there had been no stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq at the time of the war, Dr. Kay reported that conclusion and resigned his position. Currently, he is a Senior Fellow at the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies with a concentration on counter-terrorism and weapons proliferation. He also serves as an analyst for NBC and MSNBC and appears frequently as a commentator on proliferation and terrorism issues. top

John Brady Kiesling

Brady Kiesling was a member of Bush's Foreign Service Corps and Political Counselor to the American Embassy in Greece. Kiesling has been a diplomat for 20 years, a civil servant to four Presidents. He was the first diplomat to resign in a symbolic move to protest the administration's contempt for diplomacy. Kiesling spent last fall as a visiting fellow in the Hellenic Studies Program at Princeton University and speaking at various universities and conferences. top

Karen Kwiatkowski

Karen Kwiatkowski, a specialist on the Middle East and a recently retired USAF lieutenant colonel, who spent her final four and a half years in uniform working at the Pentagon, worked from May 2002 through February 2003 in the office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, Near East/South Asia and Special Plans at the Department of Defense. In the March 10, 2004, online edition of Salon, Karen Kwiatkowski's 4-page article, �The New Pentagon Papers� revealed how Defense Department extremists suppressed information and twisted the truth to drive the country to war. top

Patrick Lang

Patrick Lang is a strategic military and political intelligence analyst. As an independent consultant he is an expert trainer of U.S. and other personnel in requirements of operations in Muslim countries. From 1979 to 1985 he served as the senior U.S. military officer in the embassy in Saudi Arabia and Yemen. From 1985 to 1992 Lang was the Defense Intelligence Officer for the Middle East, South Asia and Terrorism. Lang served as a Commissioned Officer in the U.S. Army and earned a BA in English at Virginia Military Institute. top

Dr. David C. MacMichael

David MacMichael is a former CIA Analyst who started The Association of National Security Alumni. ANSA is an organization that seeks to expose and curtail covert actions because they �are counterproductive and damaging to the national interest of the United States, inimical to the operation of an effective national intelligence system, corruptive of civil liberties... and they contradict the principles of democracy, national self-determination and international law to which the United States is publicly committed.� David MacMichael resigned from the CIA rather than falsify his reports for political reasons. MacMichael graduated with an MA and Ph.D. in History from the University of Oregon. top

Ray McGovern

Ray McGovern was a CIA analyst from 1964 to 1990, and regularly reported to the vice president and senior policy-makers on the President's Daily Brief from 1981 to 1985. McGovern is a member of the steering group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) which is a non-partisan group of retired intelligence professionals who believe that the Bush Administration lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and inappropriately pressured the CIA to "cook the books" on the matter. McGovern is now co-director of the Servant Leadership School, an inner-city outreach ministry in Washington. top

Scott Ritter

Scott Ritter, a former marine captain from a military family, was the UN's top weapons inspector in Iraq until 1998. During the first Gulf War Ritter served as a ballistic missile expert under General Schwarzkopf and joined UNSCOM in 1991. Ritter later resigned claiming President Clinton was too easy on Sadaam. Before the recent Iraq invasion however, Ritter said the dictator didn't seem to have weapons of mass destruction and that trying to oust Hussein would be "very dangerous." top

The Rt Honorable Clare Short

Clare Short recently resigned her position as Tony Blair's secretary for international development because Blair did not support a UN coalition to rebuild Iraq. She entered the House of Commons in 1983 as the Member of Parliament (MP) for the Midlands constituency of Birmingham Ladywood, which she has held since then. From 1996 until the 1997 General Election she was Opposition spokesperson on overseas development. She was Shadow Minister for women from 1993 to 1995 and Shadow Secretary of State for Transport from 1995 to 1996. She has been Opposition spokesperson on environment protection, social security and employment. A member of the Home Affairs Select Committee from 1983 until 1985, she was Chair of the All-Party Group on Race Relations from 1985 to 1986, Member of the National Executive Committee (NEC) of the Labour Party since 1988, Chair of the NEC Women's Committee from 1993 to 1996 and Chair of the NEC International Committee since 1996. top

Stansfield Turner

Professor Turner is a Senior Research Scholar at the Center for International and Security Studies at Maryland. He served as Director of Central Intelligence from 1977-1981. As such, he headed both the Intelligence Community (composed of all of the foreign intelligence agencies of the United States) and the Central Intelligence Agency. He was responsible for developing new procedures for closer oversight of the Intelligence Community by Congress and the White House, led the Intelligence Community in adapting to a new era of real-time photographic satellites and instituted major management reform at the CIA. Previously as an Admiral in the U.S. Navy he served as commander of the U.S. Second Fleet and NATO Striking Fleet Atlantic, and as the commander-in-chief of NATO's Southern Flank. Turner has published four books, "Secrecy and Democracy" (1985), "Terrorism and Democracy" (1991), "Caging the Nuclear Genies" (1997), and "Caging the Genies: A Workable Plan for Nuclear, Chemical and Biological Weapons" (1998). top

The Honorable Henry Waxman

Henry A. Waxman represents California's 30th Congressional District. Since 1997, Rep. Waxman has served as ranking member of the Government Reform Committee, the principal investigative committee in the House. Rep. Waxman recently sent a letter to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice asking her to answer questions about the extent of her knowledge of Iraq nuclear claims, whether there were White House efforts to mislead the public, and how the discredited uranium claim got into the NIE. Waxman holds a bachelor's degree in political science from UCLA and a J.D. from the UCLA Law School. top

Thomas E. White

Thomas E. White became the 18th Secretary of the Army on May 31, 2001, after nomination to that post by President Bush and confirmation by the United States Senate. He served in the US Army for 23 years from 1967-2000 and retired as a brigadier general. After a series of high-profile clashes with Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz over Iraq planning and army modernization issues, White resigned from his post as army secretary in early 2003. During his tenure, White was also hounded by allegations regarding his role in the Enron debacle. But despite being questioned by Congress, White was never charged. White has continued his criticism of Defense Department decision-making vis-à-vis Iraq, arguing in a 2003 book entitled "Reconstructing Eden." top

Joseph C. Wilson

Joe Wilson is the former Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Iraq. More recently, Wilson served as the Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. At the behest of Vice President Cheney, Wilson went to Niger to determine the credibility of documents claiming that Sadaam Hussein had purchased "yellow cake" uranium from that country. Wilson debunked the claims as false yet the accusation appeared in President Bush's State of the Union address. Wilson claims the White House deliberately leaked his wife's identity as a covert CIA operative after he wrote an article for the NY Times revealing that the Niger-uranium claims made by the White House were false. Wilson is currently on tour for his recently published New York Times best-selling book, "The Politics of Truth: Inside the Lies That led to War and Betrayed My Wife's CIA Identity." top

Colonel Mary Ann Wright

Colonel Mary Ann Wright is the former Ambassador to Mongolia who resigned on the eve of the war with Iraq. Ms. Wright was a diplomat for fifteen years and the Deputy Chief of Mission in the U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia, and Afghanistan as part of the rebuilding team after the recent war. She has also had assignments in Somalia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Grenada and Nicaragua. Wright continues to speak out through TV, radio and newspaper interviews against the war in Iraq and other Bush administration policies including the lack of concern and effort to push the peace process along between the Israeli and Palestinians. top

Peter Zimmerman

Peter Zimmerman served as the Chief Scientist of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from August 2001 until January 2003. Before assuming his duties in the U.S. Senate, he was a senior fellow in arms control and verification at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a former technical adviser to the U.S. delegation to the START talks. top

Is a guy with a masters in physics and mathematics supposed to convince me that Bush is a good public speaker?

are you incapable of reading past 1 person? and Bush's admittance has everything to do with their testimony given in the documentary. You dont want read their background credentials so you would rather divert and evade their corraborating evidence so that people can just believe in your hypothetical whitewash and presumptions at best?

Heck, I don't need their background credentials. I'll willingly spot you that every single one of them is the best of the best of the best in their field. I'll believe they have so many certifications, awards, and diplomas they have turned them into wallpaper just to have space for it all. I will, for the sake of this argument, assume they are absolutely, one hundred percent, credible.

So...does any of this make Bush a good public speaker? Does it keep him from making the same stupid verbal mistakes that have pushed two books to the top of the best-sellers list in the country he runs? If a person can't string together two words without calling for a line, does it matter if it's Stephen Hawkins quoting him?

You can't quite seem to get the point I am making here. The credibility of the witnesses isn't what I am talking about. I am talking about the credibility of the source. If a guy has terrible public speaking abilities, basing an argument on something he said while publicly speaking isn't going to get you too far.

Oh I see you want people to just believe YOU and not them who most have been around him personally and since Bush has a speech impediment supposedly, that must be the sole reason why they want to testify against him right? Is that what you want to get across?

Milt Bearden? never trust a man with a beard.



Rand Beers? sounds like he's had too many beers. I could go on...but I think I've made my point.

I couldn't care less what people believe. I am simply pointing out that basing an argument on something that someone said while speaking in public, when it is not only known, but celebrated, that that person regularly makes mistakes while speaking in public, is not going to get a very serious response.

believe? there is a difference between being a witness to vs just believing and making presumptive statements. Comparing all of those experts in unison with corrabortating evidence vs your feeble attempts at presumption has clearly tipped the scales in their favor on this one, nice try though.

...

You...are getting a little confusing.

You asked if I wanted people to believe me. I said it didn't matter if they believed me or not. Now you are saying...what? Are you asking if there are witnesses to Bush being a bad public speaker? Heck, there are entire books on the subject. It's so well-known that didn't occur to me that it was in question. Would you like me to source evidence that that public perception of Bush is that he is a bad public speaker?



Presumed? What did I presume? A presumption (in this particular case) could be taken to be that I have assumed that Bush is a bad public speaker (again, it isn't something I thought was in question). That people wouldn't take seriously something said in public when it is known they don't speak well in public is simply a logical extension. I suppose the question here would be this: Are you saying that Bush is a reliable public speaker? Or more to the point, that Bush is perceived to be a reliable public speaker?

Another example of a presumption would be claiming a victory assuming that you had actually accomplished one.

Is this issue just too complicated for you to make comparisons? If you havent heard and seen their testimony how then can you conclude beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bush actually made a mistake in his statement? Let's assume for a bit that Bush has a chronic speech impediment that allows being mistaken when identifying. How do you know Bush meant Hussein when due to his chronic speech impediment he then could have meant 'no plane"?

Was he referring to Hussein or the hotel footage of pentagon?

You are making it sound like I am presenting a case to the Supreme Court. I'm not even presenting an argument to the members here on this thread. Heck, I'm not even talking about the actual conspiracy du jour. All I am doing is making a very simple observation:

1) The title of this thread implies that Bush has incriminated himself by publicly speaking.

2) Bush is well known for making public speaking mistakes.

3) If the evidence is from a source that is more known for its errors than its accuracy, the argument is going to raise eyebrows.

You can derive whatever conclusion you like from that. Frankly, it is something that all sides, pro-Bush, anti-Bush, and (my own group), Bush-who-now?, need to keep in mind when presenting arguments. The presentation is every bit as important as the actual argument. Professional lawyers would argue that it is even more so.

How do you know Bush meant Hussein when due to his chronic speech impediment he then could have meant 'no plane"?

Was he referring to Hussein or the hotel footage of pentagon?

The problem is this.
The premise of this thread was that President Bush allegedly saw the first plane hit the WTC tower on 9-11. There was some mystery associated with that statement of his, at least in your mind.

This of course has been shown rather clearly to have been a small Bush-ism, a slip of the tongue, which is certainly not something unusual. He couldn't have seen it, because no one from the media was sitting there with TV cameras waiting for the attack to occur.

You stated something about Bush being accountable...because of this slip of the tongue, which in your mind equates to him making a mistake, and reveling something. I asked what he is accountable for.

What I expected was a declaration that he knew about 9-11 ahead of time, and his slip showed that he had seen the first plane hit the tower...probably because he had closed-circuit TV available so he could watch his plan coming to fruition...


Really! That's what I thought you'd say. But no.

Apparently, Bush's slip of the tongue regarding his seeing the first plane hit the tower makes him accountable for lying about Iraq.
I get it. That's really brilliant linear logic now that I think about it...



I wonder why you didn't just come out and start a diatribe about Bush lying about Iraq, rather than go through all this convoluted nonsense about a simple, and common Bush slip of the tongue. Then, I could've ignored that tired old argument and moved onto to something else of substance.

I really thought you were gonna say that Bush knew about, and perhaps had even orchestrated 9-11.
Oh well...

You claiming that he made a "slip of the tongue" or bush-ism or whatever you want to call it does not bring homw the verdict nor does it make you of any type of an authority on Bush habits. Your claims dont make it a fact that Bush did not mean what he said, when he said it, thereby holding him accountable for his actions. By his own admission if you havent figured it out YET mid. Truly amazing to watch you drag your feet on this one MID.

I wasn't aware he had a speech impediment. I thought he was just a bad speaker.



I would have to listen to the speech in context and try to figure out what he was talking about from the content of his speech. Not that I would bother. It isn't the things that he say's that make sense that catch anyone's attention. It's the things that he say's that don't make sense that people laugh at, or consider evidence of a conspiracy of.


Expo2,

Do you acknowledge that Bush is not only known, but even laughed at, for the many mistakes he makes during public speaking?

Do you acknowledge that you are basing your presumption solely on the 'evidence' you only want to see?

I'm not basing it on evidence at all. I'm basing it on public perception.

So, I answered your question. Are you going to answer mine?

I acknowledge that there is a time to laugh at him and a time to take him seriously and at this point the public perception isnt unanimous on that particular incident. It's time for me to get some sleep, happy holidays to all of you.