Why do some people deny about the fact that the holocaust was real? And that it happened? Why do people deny or believe the diary of anne frank isn't real when they know it is real?

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Why did Germany let sweden and switzerland be free from Nazi rule? Don't get me wrong I'm glad they did. But why?

What happened in Hitlers childhood to make him end up the way he did? And to do what he did?

Know it's real? There's really nothing we can know is real. We merely drift through a void of ignorance and assume some select things, assume that our senses are telling us the truth, when in reality, we really cannot know for sure. Why do some people believe in ghosts? Denying the holocaust can also be seen as an obstinate act; as a rebellion against the established assumptions. What if this life is a mere dream during a one night in a different life... what if...

That's what it always comes to, the fact that no esoteric truths exist but the assumptions we make for ourselves. Always after tragedies such as the holocaust (or 9/11 if you will, though it's in no way comparable to the Holocaust), it is suddenly seen as a horrible crime to even mention possibilities that maybe it didn't happen or maybe it didn't happen quite the way it is assumed by the general public. It becomes taboo to speak of, not even in a theoretically context, not even "what if...", because someone out there might misinterpret what you're saying and feel "offended" by it...

With time, the memories of people fade and are distorted, and soon enough, people will begin to forget the lessons of the past-either through wilful ignorance of them or simply through not being supplied knowledge. I think it is valuable however, to question and scrutinize everything, including things which it is seen as "politically incorrect" to ask too many questions about.

This one is real, without a doubt... Only stupid people deny it. the horrible evidence of it is all around...

but the holocaust did happen. I just can't believe why people would deny it ever happening. It did happen there's pics of millions of bodies dumbed into trenches. They look only like skin and bones. Millions of jewish people were killed during that time. As well as million others too. So how can some people be so cruel to deny that it ever happened. Something like the holocaust should be remembered forever. So that it never happens again.

I don't know many people who deny it... *??* and it's hard for people to deny it especially with people who survived the holocaust that are still alive.. Though I don't think many people talk about it anymore but I wouldn't know... I'm not of that decent.

Millions thrown into mass trench-graves? Try a few thousands. I mean, in each grave. How is it cruel to deny? I think it's a rather uneducated viewpoint to assume it didn't happen, but I wouldn't call it cruel. Let us never forget the "Rape of Nanking", where some 200,000 civilians were murdered during the Japanese occupation. Let us not forget the Nuclear bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima (total death about 200,000), let us nor forget the fire bombing of civilians in Tokyo by the US that caused the death of up to 350,000. Let us not forget the bombings of London, Dresden, Berlin, Frankfurt, and all those other places that have been eradicated and violated by mans petty "wars". Humans sure are one suicidal bunch it seems.

many people think that hitler ,stalin,and hussein turned out the way they did because of child abuse.in no way does it account for the terror these men threw around like candy.the holocaust happened,and the death toll may be a lot more than what we know to be an acurate number.i can't see how anybody can explain or give a theory on how this did'nt happen.most who say it was a fraud,are life long antisemnites like david duke,who recently returned from iran as an honored guest at a ho;ocaust convention.

Very much would I love to rise to power as a dictator myself, and I was never abused in any way, so it can't be child abuse that gives such results, that's just the theory of a psychiatrist desiring to prove that no human is born with a what might be called "abnormal mind". "Abnormal" of course being a very subjective term. Numbers being higher you say? I know that the Soviets sometimes added extra millions of deaths to describe the horrid attrocities of the Nazis. They claimed there were some 3-4 million deaths at the Auschwitz death camps, when later research has suggested 1.1-1.6 million.

because 1) they want attention or 2) they have lost it......it happened theres no argument about this for normally educated people

the rape on nanking and the other situations around it led to the deaths of 30,000,000 people.... its in the guiness book of world records....the halocaust is just the most planned out genocide... im not arguing with u nena. and dont leave out whats happening in darfur as we type

Holocaust denier to be released from prison in Austria

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/20/...aust_Denier.php

I know the HOLOCAUST happen, but I get offended when suddently it's a taboo to do serious research (im not talking about Irving).
When somebody tryes to impose the "thruth" by law...well you MUST doub no matter what!

during the hitler years it was illegal to own and read certain books and hold certain opinions and say certain things, i thought part of point of beating him was to have those freedoms for everyone no?
freedom to say, freedom to choose, freedom to critisize,freedom to question and examine the facts and then to form ones own opinion? obviously not. i live in germany where its illegal to speak about this subject and to say in public that u think its a load of rubbish.
does that sound like free speach?
wheter or not one thinks its true or not, being able to speak your mind is obviously still dangerous as here in 1940. and hitlers been dead 60 years.
as for the swedish question:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_neutrality

i'm not saying abuse is responsible for their being evul men,but combined with other things,that is most likely what happened.i have read about wwII sice i was 9 or 10,and almost all i have read have stated that hitler was responsible for 30 million deaths,and stalin 30 million.at nanking,250 thousand men,women,and children were murdered.the 30 million account has to be the total number of people killed by the japs during wwII,not just in 1 place.

30 million hither thither; those numbers seem strangely regular. Some counts are very dubious due to also considering the local governments guilty of famine and such (especially Rummels estimates of Soviet 'genocide', wherein he presented ridiculous numbers as 'crimes of communism', effectively providing what is basically a pro-capitalist propaganda tool), but did not consider African famines to be genocides. Hitler was the catalyst behind genocide of some roughly 11 million.

I don't know anyone who has the nerve to say this didn't happen, The bodies are proof of what Hilter and his loser's did to people, All you have to do is look at the video footage of the time's to see how bad it really was, Also my Grandfather fought in WW2 and if you have any doubt about what they found during the fall of berlin then you need to talk to a soilder who was their.......

But some of our beliefs are supported by solid evidence in the external world and some aren't. If I look at an 80-year-old's arm and see a crude tattoo of a Star of David followed by a ten digit number that makes his statement that he was tortured at Auschwitz more likely. If I ask another person standing near us to read the number aloud and he reads what I see, that increases the probability that I'm not hallucinating.

Of course, I COULD be hallucinating all of creation. If I am, I am also hallucinating a huge body of unalterable rules that have excellent predictive validity (science). Given the fact that I am compelled to abide by the logical rules of the hallucination, the question of where that hallucination came from is philosophically interesting but not especially relevent.

In my opinion, most people who deny the Holocaust are white supremacists who aren't willing to admit that being racist puts them in the same category as a group of people who butchered 8 million people.


(editted for clarity-- not that it's all that clear)

I was just feeling like being a Nazi (lol almost a pun there) with the certainty which the OP was uttered; yes, most holocaust deniers (they refer to it as the holohoax) are various racist organisations (Not only White supremacists), and well, their arguments are generally not the strongest. In this world (dream or not), most evidence suggest that it did take place. I don't really see why they deny the genocide, since they many times advocate comitting such genocides, so what is their problem, really? Are they afraid it'd hurt their public image? ;P

I have an abnormal mind as well. But it's not like Hitlers. His was to do bad to the world. Mine only wants to do good and nothing but good for the world.

I'm venting here!!
That excuse about the whole poor abused Hitler la la woa bit makes me absolutely sick!! besides Hitler, what excuse did Goring, Himmler, Dr. Josef Mengele the "angel of death," or any (one) of those thousands of soldiers under the SS commands have to commit blatantly brutal animalistic murder on untold thousands of innocent people without so much as a thought of a conscious??? I've seen photos that are so rare I would see them only once, and that's once too many--
Hitler was rejected on some masterpiece by his "music professor" a jewish professor it was. From that point on the hatred set in. Overtime he rationalized that he was ultimate, and everyone different from himself was less human. From a total lack of self esteem rejection was his motivation.
My question for me is how did one pathetic skrawney UGLY fool tend to find so many men/women (yes there were women just as cruel) to kill so many people so ruthlessly without question? a magnet for psychopaths-- beats me.

hitler left out some counties because those countries probably contained the "people" that hitler thought were perfect (blue eyes, blonde hair). in canada, schools study the holocaust and as long as students are studying and learning it, it will not be forgotten. it is also in all the encyclopedias and also everywhere on the net.

there was also this movie i watched in english and suprisingly not history lol, but we watched schindler's list. i'm sure more than half of the people here watched that movie.

If I may be blunt. The reason that people deny it is that it has been exaggerated. Take a look at a few of these posts and you will see what I mean. The real numbers are a fraction of the numbers thrown around at whim. The numbers are the same for the Jews as for any other group that was executed under Hitler's regime. But since the Jews were specifically targeted for being Jews its a blight that won't nor should be forgotten.

However the Holocaust has become the equivalent of the "race card" something that is brought up when it isn't really relevant to use shame to sway people from speaking their minds. The deniers are rebelling against this.

The fact that it is illegal to deny it is really bizarre in my opinion. How is an opinion illegal?

triple post sorry

triple post sorry

what ever you wanna make of the stuff im about to post is up to you, im not a haulocaust denier so its not my point of view you shoul question, but i think these are questions relevent to this thread.

Auschwitz: Myths and Facts
Auschwitz is regarded as the most notorious Nazi extermination center. During World War II, we are told, hundreds of thousands of prisoners — most of them Jewish — were systematically killed there, especially in gas chambers.

Auschwitz was unquestionably a place of horror, where many perished under terrible circumstances. And yet, much of what has been said about the camp is untrue or exaggerated. A close look at the facts calls into question at least some aspects of its reputation as a center of systematic mass extermination.

A Large Camp Complex

The Auschwitz camp complex was set up in 1940 in what is now south-central Poland. Large numbers of Jews were deported there between 1942 and mid-1944. The main camp was known as Auschwitz I. Birkenau, or Auschwitz II, was supposedly the main extermination center, while Monowitz, or Auschwitz III, was a large industrial site where gasoline was produced from coal. In addition there were dozens of smaller satellite camps devoted to the war economy.

Four Million Victims?

At the postwar Nuremberg Tribunal, the Allies charged that the Germans exterminated four million people at Auschwitz. This figure, which was invented by the Soviets, was uncritically accepted for many years, and often appeared in major American newspapers and magazines. [1] Today no reputable historian accepts this figure.

Israeli Holocaust historian Yehuda Bauer said in 1989 that it is finally time to acknowledge that the familiar four million figure is a deliberate myth. In July 1990 the Auschwitz State Museum in Poland, along with Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust Center, announced that altogether perhaps one million people (both Jews and non-Jews) died there. Neither institution would say how many of these people were killed, and no estimates were given for the numbers of those supposedly gassed. [2]

One prominent Holocaust historian, Gerald Reitlinger, estimated that perhaps 700,000 Jews perished at Auschwitz. [3] French Holocaust historian Jean-Claude Pressac estimated in 1993 that the number of those who perished there was about 800,000 – of whom 630,000 were Jewish. [4]

Fritjof Meyer, a respected foreign policy analyst, author of several books, and managing editor of Germany’s foremost weekly news magazine, presented a still lower figure in 2002. Writing in the scholarly German journal Osteuropa, he estimated that altogether 500,000 or 510,000 persons — Jews and non-Jews — perished in Auschwitz. [5]

While all such figures are conjectural, they show how the Auschwitz story has changed drastically over the years.

Fake 'Gas Chamber'

Each year for decades, tens of thousands of visitors to Auschwitz have been shown an execution "gas chamber" in the main camp, supposedly in its "original state." In January 1995 the prestigious French weekly magazine L'Express acknowledged that "everything” about this "gas chamber” is “false,” and that it is in fact a deceitful postwar reconstruction. [6]

Bizarre Tales

At one time it was seriously claimed that at Auschwitz Jews were systematically killed with electricity. American newspapers in February 1945, citing a Soviet eyewitness report from the recently-liberated camp, told readers that the methodical Germans had killed Jews there using an "electric conveyor belt on which hundreds of persons could be electrocuted simultaneously [and] then moved on into furnaces. They were burned almost instantly, producing fertilizer for nearby cabbage fields." [7]

At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales.

The Höss 'Confession'

A key piece of Holocaust evidence is the "confession" of former Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss. In a sworn statement, and in testimony before the Nuremberg Tribunal on April 15, 1946, he declared that between May 1940 and December 1943, while he was commandant of the camp complex, "at least two and a half million victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning," and that "at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about three million" during that period alone. [9]

Although it is still widely cited as solid historical evidence, this "confession" is actually a false statement obtained by torture. Some years after the war, British military intelligence sergeant Bernard Clarke described how he and five other British soldiers tortured the former commandant to obtain his "confession." Höss himself privately explained his ordeal in these words: "Certainly, I signed a statement that I killed two and half million Jews. I could just as well have said that it was five million Jews. There are certain methods by which any confession can be obtained, whether it is true or not." [10]

Even historians who generally accept the Holocaust extermination story now acknowledge that many of the specific statements made in the Höss "confession" are simply not true. For one thing, no serious scholar now claims that anything like two and a half or three million people perished in Auschwitz.

The Höss "confession" further alleges that Jews were already being exterminated by gas in the summer of 1941 at three other camps: Belzec, Treblinka and Wolzek. The "Wolzek" camp mentioned by Höss is a total invention. No such camp existed, and the name is no longer mentioned in Holocaust literature. Moreover, those who accept the Holocaust story currently claim that gassings of Jews did not begin at Auschwitz, Treblinka, or Belzec until sometime in 1942.

Many Jewish Inmates Unable to Work

Many thousands of secret German wartime documents dealing with Auschwitz were confiscated after the war by the Allies. But not a single one refers to a policy or program of extermination. In fact, the familiar Auschwitz extermination story cannot be reconciled with the documentary evidence.

It is often claimed that all Jews at Auschwitz who were unable to work were immediately killed. Jews who were too old, young, sick, or weak were supposedly gassed on arrival, and only those who could be worked to death were temporarily kept alive.

But the evidence shows otherwise. In fact, a very high percentage of the Jewish inmates were not able to work, and were nevertheless not killed. For example, an internal German telex message dated Sept. 4, 1943, from the chief of the Labor Allocation department of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office (WVHA), reported that of 25,000 Jews held in Auschwitz, only 3,581 were able to work, and that all of the remaining Jewish inmates — some 21,500, or about 86 percent — were unable to work. [11]

This is also confirmed in a secret report dated April 5, 1944, on "security measures in Auschwitz" by Oswald Pohl, head of the SS concentration camp system, to SS chief Heinrich Himmler. Pohl reported that there was a total of 67,000 inmates in the entire Auschwitz camp complex, of whom 18,000 were hospitalized or disabled. In the Auschwitz II camp (Birkenau), supposedly the main extermination center, there were 36,000 inmates, mostly female, of whom "approximately 15,000 are unable to work." [12]

These two documents simply cannot be reconciled with the familiar Auschwitz extermination story.

The evidence shows that Auschwitz-Birkenau was established primarily as a camp for Jews who were not able to work, including the sick and elderly, as well as for those who were temporarily awaiting assignment to other camps. That is the considered view of Dr. Arthur Butz of Northwestern University, who also says that this was an important reason for the unusually high death rate there. [13]

Jewish scholar Arno Mayer, a professor of history at Princeton University, acknowledges in his 1989 book about the "final solution" that more Jews perished at Auschwitz as a result of typhus and other "natural" causes than were executed. [14]

Anne Frank

Perhaps the best known Auschwitz inmate was Anne Frank, who is remembered for her famous diary. But few people are aware that thousands of Jews, including Anne and her father, Otto Frank, "survived" Auschwitz.

The 15-year-old girl and her father were deported from the Netherlands to Auschwitz in September 1944. Several weeks later, in the face of the advancing Soviet army, Anne was evacuated from Auschwitz along with many other Jews to the Bergen-Belsen camp in western Germany, where she died of typhus in March 1945.

While at Auschwitz, Otto Frank came down with typhus, and was sent to the camp hospital to recover. He was one of thousands of sick and feeble Jews who were left behind when the Germans abandoned the camp in January 1945, shortly before it was overrun by the Soviets. He died in Switzerland in 1980.

If the German policy had been to kill Anne Frank and her father, they would not have survived Auschwitz. Their fate, tragic though it was, cannot be reconciled with the familiar extermination story.

Allied Propaganda

The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15]

Survivor Testimony

Former inmates have confirmed that they saw no evidence of extermination at Auschwitz.

An Austrian woman, Maria Vanherwaarden, testified about her camp experiences in a Toronto District Court in March 1988. [16] She was interned in Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1942 for having sexual relations with a Polish forced laborer. On the train journey to the camp, a Gypsy woman told her and the others that they would all be gassed at Auschwitz. Upon arrival, Maria and the other women were ordered to undress and go into a large concrete room without windows to take a shower. The terrified women were sure that they were about to die. But then, instead of gas, water came out of the shower heads.

Auschwitz was no vacation resort, Maria confirmed. She witnessed the deaths of many fellow inmates by disease, particularly typhus. She saw some take their own lives. But she saw no evidence at all of mass killings, gassings, or of any extermination program.

A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungary in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily. She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of gas chambers during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassing stories only later. [17]

Inmates Released

More than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps, and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. In addition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences were released, and returned to their home countries. [18] If Auschwitz had actually been a top secret extermination center, it is difficult to believe that the German authorities would have released inmates who “knew” what was happening there.

Telltale Aerial Photos

Detailed Allied aerial reconnaissance photographs taken of Auschwitz-Birkenau on several random days in 1944 — during the height of the alleged extermination period there — were made public by the CIA in 1979. These photos show no trace of piles of corpses, smoking crematory chimneys or masses of Jews awaiting death, things that have been repeatedly alleged, and all of which would have been clearly visible if Auschwitz had been the extermination center it is said to have been. [19]

Absurd Cremation Claims

Cremation specialists have confirmed that thousands of corpses could not possibly have been cremated every day throughout the spring and summer of 1944 at Auschwitz, as has often been alleged. Ivan Lagacé, manager of a large crematory in Canada, testified in court in April 1988 that the Auschwitz cremation story is technically impossible. The allegation that 10,000 or even 20,000 corpses were burned every day at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944 in crematories and open pits is simply "preposterous" and "beyond the realm of reality," he declared under oath. [20]

Gassing Expert Refutes Extermination Story

A leading American gas chamber expert, Fred A. Leuchter, carefully examined the supposed "gas chambers" in Poland and concluded that the Auschwitz gassing story is absurd and technically impossible. At the time he conducted his examination, Leuchter was acknowledged as the foremost specialist on the design and installation of gas chambers used in the United States to execute convicted criminals. For example, he designed a gas chamber facility for the Missouri state penitentiary.

In February 1988 he carried out a detailed onsite examination of the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek in Poland, which are either still standing or only partially in ruins. In sworn testimony to a Toronto court and in a technical report, Leuchter described every aspect of his investigation. He concluded that the alleged gassing facilities could not possibly have been used to kill people. Among other things, he pointed out that the so-called "gas chambers" were not properly sealed or vented to kill human beings without also killing German camp personnel. [21]

Dr. William B. Lindsey, a research chemist employed for 33 years by the Dupont Corporation, likewise testified in a 1985 court case that the Auschwitz gassing story is technically impossible. Based on a careful on-site examination of the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek, and on his years of experience, he declared: "I have come to the conclusion that no one was willfully or purposefully killed with Zyklon B [hydrocyanic acid gas] in this manner. I consider it absolutely impossible." [22]

In March 1992, a prominent Austrian engineer made headlines when a report he had written about alleged German wartime gas chambers was made public. Walter Lüftl, a court-recognized expert engineer who headed a large engineering firm in Vienna, concluded that the familiar stories of mass extermination of Jews in gas chambers at the wartime camps of Auschwitz and Mauthausen are impossible for technical reasons. Lüftl also specifically affirmed Leuchter’s findings about Auschwitz. [23]

Himmler Orders Death Rate Reduced

In response to the deaths of many inmates from disease, especially typhus, the German authorities responsible for the camps ordered firm counter-measures. The head of the SS camp administration office sent a directive dated Dec. 28, 1942, to Auschwitz and the other concentration camps. It sharply criticized the high death rate of inmates due to disease, and ordered that "camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps." Furthermore, it ordered:

"The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the nutrition of the prisoners and, in cooperation with the administration, submit improvement recommendations to the camp commandants ... The camp doctors are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as possible."

Finally, the directive stressed that "the Reichsführer SS [Heinrich Himmler] has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced." [24]

Combating Disease

As ordered, German physicians in Auschwitz carried out wide-ranging and intensive measures to reduce the prisoners’ death rate. For example, in a letter of Feb. 25, 1943, camp physician Dr. Wirths informed the central WVHA office, which was responsible for the SS concentration camp system:

“As already reported, after the typhus epidemic in the Auschwitz camp had practically been suppressed in November and December, there followed a new rise in typhus cases among the Auschwitz inmates as well as among troops, brought by the newly arriving transports from the East. In spite of the counter-measures that were immediately taken, a complete suppression of typhus cases has still not been achieved.” [25]

None of this can be reconciled with the currently official Auschwitz extermination story.

Summary

Maintaining the hatreds and passions of the past prevents genuine reconciliation and lasting peace. The Auschwitz extermination story originated as World War II propaganda. And all wartime propaganda, unless hatred and passion are to have the final word, must be viewed critically. It is high time to take a more objective look at this highly polemicized chapter of history.

I agree that maintaining the hatreds of the past is bad business, but it's important to learn from your mistakes and you can't do that if you forget your past. Of course, you also can't do it if you distort the past beyond recognition.

I think all countries are capable of making the same horrible mistakes and it's important to ask "How did that happen?" , "When it started happening, what were the symptoms?", etc., to keep ourselves in line. It seems like the Nazis made no effort to hide their belief that they were superior to the rest of the world (if you ever want to watch something scarey, watch footage of the summer Olympics of 1936). Other countries must have been aware of Germany's military build-up. Did the rest of the world feel like they didn't have a right to "meddle in German politics" until the Nazis invaded Poland?

I've always had deep problems with "Pre-emptive Strike" military philosophies but when I think about this part of history, I have to wonder...

Hitler left out some countries from direct military action because he could get what he wanted from them at the time without wasting effort on an invasion (the Reich wanted ironore), not because the people were "perfect aryans". He did invade Norway and Denmark, and they are basically identical to Sweden people-wise.



Yey, that's what I've been trying to say but failing at formulating. D; As soon as you criticise something that is jewish, chances are you'll be accused of being an anti-semite, despite that you're criticising the independent acts of a person. Political correctness is disturbing, methinks. >.>

a horrible but effective solution: exhume all the bodies in the mass graves and see how "unreal" it is

I think you're right about this. Many people take personal credit for the suffering of their ancestors, and it's very annoying.

Some people deny it because they don't think the human being is capable of such acts. Others because of pure pride. I have asked a few German people what they felt on the subject. Some of them believed it was a horrible and shameful act of history, a few deny it.

But then again, we could deny any part of history, now couldn't we?

Actually the holocaust did not happen and is definately the biggest lie ever told for atleast the past 2,000 years. Aside from the incredibly large amount of evidence against there being a holocaust there is also one really good reason that I have noticed. How could a group of people(the Jews aka Zionists) after having a supposed 6 million mass genocide attempt on them, do what they are doing right now and for the past 60 years to the middle east with their own project of genocide aimed at the Arab nation all for the sake of claiming Israel. Even more astonishing is the fact that modern day Israeli's never came from Israel to begin with and are infact in no way related to the Jews of the Bible. This would be like black people in the 1800's being freed from slavery and then turning around and enslaving say the mexicans...it would be the ultimate in hypocracy and this is what the modern day Jews(Zionists) have done. Even if the Holocaust were real, the fact that they are ruthlessly killing completely innocent people in the middle east negates any empathy I would have for them but that would be if the holocaust were actually real which it is not.

I'd go into greater detail of why the holocaust is a lie but I have a funny feeling it will fall on def ears. The fact that it's the only historical event that is literally illegal to question should raise alarms in your not quite so logic heads. The truth does not need the law to protect it. The trick to being truly wise is to be able to accept the truth about anything no matter what.

Jews and Zionists are one and the same...

NENA ALL I CAN SAY TO THAT SILLY STAEMENT IS :::READ THIS LINK
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

lol, it was sarcasm in response to the post above...

has anyone here read up on the conviction of eichman by the israeli government?
his lawyer was a jewish man,and he requested in his opening statement that eichmann
was never a citizen of israel,hence he should'nt be tried in israel because that is not
where he broke the law.of course it was overturned.he was right!eichman should have been tried
as a war criminal,and sentenced in absentina like borrman and a few of the other hitler homie's.
if stalin had gotten a hold of hitler,wonder what he would have done with him?

Where is the proof that this "lie" did (NOT) take place?

Well ok. Now let me see if I can find pictures of the holocaust on the net. Here I go.


http://www.holocaust-history.org/hungarian...jpg/12-1142.jpg

http://www.historywiz.com/images/holocaust...auprisoners.gif

http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-3/...caust-child.GIF

Now tell me does this look like a lie to you? I don't think so. How can you be so disriminative. I can't believe that you actually believe that the holocaust didn't happen. That's so stupid. You should be ashamed of yourself. How dare you.

It doesn't matter, Mckenna! They know this already (the deniars) -- they wont accept such vile behaviors by other human beings, perhaps?? To deny the victims (living and dead) that horrible experience, & to minimize their pain, is the equilivent of committing the acts on these people as the SS did, imo! & I couldn't be more sincere..

One can deny it all they want. That doesn't mean that they are correct. It just means they are ignorant. There is evidence and witnesses. There are still even some of the buildings from the concetration camps still standing. You can just deny those and say that they were cookie factories all you want, but that will not change the truth.

no kidding it certainly won't. thanks mr. moe. for sticking up.

like i said who really knows the truth? how many and how it was put into action. the point that its not allowed to be questioned isnt good and putting people in prison for just asking the question is way out there in my book. and this furious reaction to critizism is very unproductive it makes you wanna know if theres something to hide ,which in turn could lead you to think that theres something not right.
photos and witness accounts are not good evidence are they? look at the proof of the moon landings MILLIONS of people saw it with their own eyes and still millions say its not true.? (they dont attack you for saying man never went to the moon)
at least in england they are posessed by the hitler thing, and they are all experts about the subject,(pub talk)
"hitler used to eat babies i saw it on the discovery channel last night" get us another beer alfie!!
and with the tv channels milking it for all its worth its pushed up peoples noses everyday, that must make people curious no?
its no crime to be curious if things seem to not add up, its only a question like any other so maybe those that deny the fact and those that wanna deny their rights to deny it are fuelling each others fire?

those millions saw the landings on tv, whereas most holocaust witnesses were there in person...

thats not the point .
we are allowed to discuss the moon landings at least. let me ask you this question, should people be allowed to question absolutly everything? are there certain things that are above scrutiny? why wouldnt anyone get suspicious if you try to gag them? thats what im trying to say, by saying its not allowed to be asked you open the natural curiosity of the human mind.
if you say to a child "dont look in this room" what do you think he /she thinks? i wonder whats in there i wonder whats so dangerous that i cant see it?
do you get the point? if you really think its cool to gag peoples freedom to ask and say then why bother beating hitler and the taliban in the 1st place?

I agree. I don't doubt the Holocaust but the idea that you can be thrown in jail, as has recently happend to someone who questioned it is really beyond the pale. Even as I write on here I worry that this could somehow be traced back to me and cause trouble.

In countries under a Regime that's what happens. You are thrown in jail for questioning the official story. We have the 9-11 CTs and no one is jailed for that. So why is the Holocaust any different?

I can accept that in Germany you could be jailed but that is because the government might worry about a resurgence in the Nazi groups.

But Australia? Why?

It seems to me that something is really wrong with the idea that you can't question it. The Holocaust DID happen. No doubt. But it didn't happen the way it is being reported.

Those pictures posted? Well one of them is from Victor Frankl's book and he doesn't talk about gas chambers. He talks about cruelty and sickness and starvation and suffering. So one of your pictures is wrong. In his book he points out that picture. I believe he is on the middle bottom bunk. He says that he finds it interesting that people use that picture as an example of "suffering" in the Holocaust because when he looks at the picture he remembers being very happy that day because he was too sick to go to work and he was allowed to stay in bed all day. (That's just a side note and not really relevant to your reasons for posting it but thought you should know) In addition the piled up bodies could be bodies from typhus that they didn't have proper burial for. The skinny child is a picture of a child suffering from malnutrition. Again not evidence of gas chambers and mass executions. This was war. Everyone has nothing during war. These people have less than anyone and they were stripped of everything they had, cordoned off from society and imprisoned for being a Jew. End of story. That in and of itself is really wrong. Their suffering far outweighed others in our history because of this alone. But we did nearly the same to the Japanese in this country. And we did way worse to the Japanese in Hiroshima.

The issue at the heart of it, is that the Jews did nothing but be sucessful and the jealousy and evil resentment of their achievement is the only reason they were singled out. This is what we need to remember.

The drummed up figures and the exaggerations and lies cause one to pause and question why this was necessary. It might be that the injustice so escapes definition in just discribing the reality that it is necessary to exaggerate in words in order to bring the reality of the experience out. The words can not convey enough as is, so they need to be dramaticized.

I don't know what really happened during the Holocaust. All I know is that it is horrendous. But it really bothers me that it is illegal to quesiton it when it is OBVIOUS with just the scarcist amount of investigation that it has been exaggerated.

hey im just wondering but what "doesnt add up"? lol I think the only people nowadays who are questioning the halocaust are drunk or crazy. there is so much proof it is outstanding, I believe i could post 20,000 pages worth of links all fully supporting and backing up other information about the halocaust. This isnt a fairy tale this is real life. and when real stuff happens in real life you cant just take the chumps way out and deny it.Some people need to grow up. And no conspiracysrus im not "making fun of you" im just sending that out there to everyone.

My personal experience is:

I was raised in a town that was 90% Jewish and several of my childhood friends had parents who were concentration camp survivors-- they had the tattoo numbers, scars from torture, etc. Some of them acted like zombies much of the time. With these folks, their families had encouraged them to reproduce to "rebuild the Jewish population" but they were so badly damaged mentally that the kids were actually raised by their extended families (off topic-- these were lovely families and the kids "came out well").

My husband and I lived in Munich for a while. Dachau was half an hour away, so I went to see it. It looked real to me.

I've heard many, many older people refer to it-- not in a melodramatic self-aggrandizing context but very normally (example: "My brother met him at Dachau in '42. After they were liberated they both moved to Munich"). Truethat mentioned that some people drag the holocaust up at inappropriate times, like the Race Card. Ever notice the fact that the people who were actually there aren't the ones who drag it up that way?

There's something awful about denying the fact that a person's been tortured when he/she obviously has been. If people are tired of hearing the Holocaust used as a sympathy card, I wish they would attack the political correctness of it, as in "well, THEY may have suffered but YOU haven't, so stop being manipulative with someone else's tragedy". There's so much evidence that the Holocaust took place that denying it seems delusional, insulting to the troops who fought, and insulting to the survivors.


(edited for grammar)

Although I do agree with this statement, I also think that things on the same scale of the Holocaust happens EVERY day.
I am going to be brave here and step out on a limb. I want to know why most of the time the Holocaust correlates to Jewish people only? I understand they were the majority imprisoned but, I want other nationalities that were imprisoned to get the same respect and compensation. There were many nationalities who suffered and many sexual orientations and disabled people as well.
I'm Austrian and a few of my family members (some still living) were imprisoned in concentration camps. They were Austrian and they didn't receive compensation or even acknowledgment for their imprisonment.
And trust me, Germans and Austrians are still paying dearly for the Holocaust everyday, even the younger generation who weren't even alive at the time. We have to walk on eggshells about every word we say in public. There is NO freedom of speech. If we say anything that might be construed as anti-foreigner, racist, anti-semitic, etc. then we are immediately labeled NAZI.
I've been called Nazi many times (I'm not racist in any form) by many people who just didn't like what I had to say. Even if the conversation had nothing to do with racism, the Holocaust, etc. People just have to know that you are German/Austrian to throw an insult like that at you.
Most people when offered the word German or Austrian immediately think of the words Holocaust or Hitler. The Nazi stigma will follow us for a very long time all due to ONE leader.
Imagine living in a country that imprisons authors (like British author David Irving) for denying the Holocaust? Okay, I definitely agree the Holocaust was real. As REAL as REAL can get. But, to imprison somebody over written words in a book? Is that not absurd? All of us people who know that David Irving's theories are whacko have the choice NOT to pick up the book and read it. It is that simple.
People who continue to deny the Holocaust are a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Certain people blaming INNOCENT people for the Holocaust are also a few sandwiches short.
Just offering a view from a different perspective.

you can be thrown in jail in some of those countries if you as so much
wear a hitler shirt in public,or if you try to start up anti sematic groups?

Yes, definitely without a doubt.

so r3load you think that anyone who questions the theory is drunk or crazy? and if you did post 20,000 links to proove it was fact who would you proove it to yourself? maybe those links would seem to "not add up".
maybe i still have questions after would that be ok? or should i be in prison for that? and what if you are making fun of me? thats ok too im hip your freedom to critisize is a freedom i am willing to kill and die for.
like i asked b4, are we free to discuss this subject or is it above scrutiny? bcos if it is then maybe there is something to hide wouldnt you say so?
keep it real brother!!