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louie
If you think George bush will not be rembered as the most unpopular president. wich president was the most unpopular in history
Aztec Warrior
Bush, although not popular, would have a long way to go before reaching the unpopularity of Jimmy Carter. He was defeated by Reagan in a landslide.
IamsSon
I add my vote to Aztec's: Jimmy Carter!
Avinash_Tyagi
Actually its closer than you think, Carter's lowest was 29%, While Bush has fallen that low during his presidency as well
evil_E.T
i always thought nixon was pretty low...
Reincarnated
rolling stone already named him(bush) the worst U.S. president ever.
Bella-Angelique
QUOTE(louie @ Dec 29 2006, 09:35 AM) [snapback]1477481[/snapback]
If you think George bush will not be rembered as the most unpopular president. wich president was the most unpopular in history


Lets be totally realistic here.
It is going to be hard to top a general of the victorious side of a civil war in US history.
If they had actual population percentage records for sheer hate, Grant would likely always be No.1
Wolf MacCanine

Before he has to step out of the White House,George W. Bush will have become the nation's most unpopular President.

Bella-Angelique
High drama of the moment that will not mark him as terrible as some others a hundred years from now.
It is very egocentric or over dramatic to think the suffering of the present somehow eclipses the suffering of those of the past in magnitude simply because this is the time we live in.
OlDrippy34
QUOTE(Reincarnated @ Dec 29 2006, 12:26 PM) [snapback]1477710[/snapback]
rolling stone already named him(bush) the worst U.S. president ever.

Political scholars that the editors at Rolling Stone are...undeniable decidedly liberal bias there.

I don't know, I never was a fan of Taft...
Startraveler
QUOTE
Political scholars that the editors at Rolling Stone are...


I believe the piece Reincarnated was talking about was written by a leading scholar, historian Sean Wilentz.
Reincarnated
QUOTE(Startraveler @ Dec 29 2006, 08:14 PM) [snapback]1477889[/snapback]
I believe the piece Reincarnated was talking about was written by a leading scholar, historian Sean Wilentz.
yes.gif Correct
QUOTE(Reincarnated @ Apr 21 2006, 03:48 AM) [snapback]1157390[/snapback]
linked-image
The Worst President in History?
By Sean Wilentz
Rolling Stone
Thursday 20 April 2006
"One of America's leading historians assesses George W. Bush"

George W. Bush's presidency appears headed for colossal historical disgrace. Barring a cataclysmic event on the order of the terrorist attacks of September 11th, after which the public might rally around the White House once again, there seems to be little the administration can do to avoid being ranked on the lowest tier of U.S. presidents. And that may be the best-case scenario. Many historians are now wondering whether Bush, in fact, will be remembered as the very worst president in all of American history.

From time to time, after hours, I kick back with my colleagues at Princeton to argue idly about which president really was the worst of them all. For years, these perennial debates have largely focused on the same handful of chief executives whom national polls of historians, from across the ideological and political spectrum, routinely cite as the bottom of the presidential barrel. Was the lousiest James Buchanan, who, confronted with Southern secession in 1860, dithered to a degree that, as his most recent biographer has said, probably amounted to disloyalty - and who handed to his successor, Abraham Lincoln, a nation already torn asunder? Was it Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson, who actively sided with former Confederates and undermined Reconstruction? What about the amiably incompetent Warren G. Harding, whose administration was fabulously corrupt? Or, though he has his defenders, Herbert Hoover, who tried some reforms but remained imprisoned in his own outmoded individualist ethic and collapsed under the weight of the stock-market crash of 1929 and the Depression's onset? The younger historians always put in a word for Richard M. Nixon, the only American president forced to resign from office.

Now, though, George W. Bush is in serious contention for the title of worst ever. In early 2004, an informal survey of 415 historians conducted by the nonpartisan History News Network found that eighty-one percent considered the Bush administration a "failure." Among those who called Bush a success, many gave the president high marks only for his ability to mobilize public support and get Congress to go along with what one historian called the administration's "pursuit of disastrous policies." In fact, roughly one in ten of those who called Bush a success was being facetious, rating him only as the best president since Bill Clinton - a category in which Bush is the only contestant.

The lopsided decision of historians should give everyone pause. Contrary to popular stereotypes, historians are generally a cautious bunch. We assess the past from widely divergent points of view and are deeply concerned about being viewed as fair and accurate by our colleagues. When we make historical judgments, we are acting not as voters or even pundits, but as scholars who must evaluate all the evidence, good, bad or indifferent. Separate surveys, conducted by those perceived as conservatives as well as liberals, show remarkable unanimity about who the best and worst presidents have been.

Historians do tend, as a group, to be far more liberal than the citizenry as a whole - a fact the president's admirers have seized on to dismiss the poll results as transparently biased. One pro-Bush historian said the survey revealed more about "the current crop of history professors" than about Bush or about Bush's eventual standing. But if historians were simply motivated by a strong collective liberal bias, they might be expected to call Bush the worst president since his father, or Ronald Reagan, or Nixon. Instead, more than half of those polled - and nearly three-fourths of those who gave Bush a negative rating - reached back before Nixon to find a president they considered as miserable as Bush. The presidents most commonly linked with Bush included Hoover, Andrew Johnson and Buchanan. Twelve percent of the historians polled - nearly as many as those who rated Bush a success - flatly called Bush the worst president in American history. And these figures were gathered before the debacles over Hurricane Katrina, Bush's role in the Valerie Plame leak affair and the deterioration of the situation in Iraq. Were the historians polled today, that figure would certainly be higher.

Even worse for the president, the general public, having once given Bush the highest approval ratings ever recorded, now appears to be coming around to the dismal view held by most historians. To be sure, the president retains a considerable base of supporters who believe in and adore him, and who reject all criticism with a mixture of disbelief and fierce contempt - about one-third of the electorate. (When the columnist Richard Reeves publicized the historians' poll last year and suggested it might have merit, he drew thousands of abusive replies that called him an idiot and that praised Bush as, in one writer's words, "a Christian who actually acts on his deeply held beliefs.") Yet the ranks of the true believers have thinned dramatically. A majority of voters in forty-three states now disapprove of Bush's handling of his job. Since the commencement of reliable polling in the 1940s, only one twice-elected president has seen his ratings fall as low as Bush's in his second term: Richard Nixon, during the months preceding his resignation in 1974. No two-term president since polling began has fallen from such a height of popularity as Bush's (in the neighborhood of ninety percent, during the patriotic upswell following the 2001 attacks) to such a low (now in the midthirties). No president, including Harry Truman (whose ratings sometimes dipped below Nixonian levels), has experienced such a virtually unrelieved decline as Bush has since his high point. Apart from sharp but temporary upticks that followed the commencement of the Iraq war and the capture of Saddam Hussein, and a recovery during the weeks just before and after his re-election, the Bush trend has been a profile in fairly steady disillusionment.

Click Here To Continue Reading

m. Moe
even if Bush is the most unpopular president right now, someone down the road will take that title away form him.
OlDrippy34
But the fact of the matter is that Rolling Stone wouldn't publish an article unless it served their agenda. You won't see Rolling Stone publishing pro-Bush, or even Bush neutral articles, much in the same way you won't see Ann Coulter publishing a pro-liberal book or article.
Reincarnated
QUOTE(OlDrippy34 @ Dec 29 2006, 08:42 PM) [snapback]1477923[/snapback]
But the fact of the matter is that Rolling Stone wouldn't publish an article unless it served their agenda.
Yeah, but that doesn't change the credentials and qualifications of the author. Their agenda? laugh.gif They are just a left leaning magazine, they don't have an "agenda", more of a taste.
QUOTE(OlDrippy34 @ Dec 29 2006, 08:42 PM) [snapback]1477923[/snapback]
you won't see Ann Coulter publishing a pro-liberal book or article.
I wasn't aware Ann Coulter published articles, I thought she was just an author? Anyways, Ann Coulters intellect and reputation comes no where near that of Sean Wilentz.
OlDrippy34
Well I never said it changed the qualifications or credentials of the author. I'm just saying that, hypothetically, if an equally reputable, or even more reputable right wing author wrote an article which somehow proved Bush the greatest president of all time, Rolling Stone still wouldn't publish it and, more than likely, would dedicate a lot of energy to somehow disproving it. Also, I couldn't tell you whether or not Ann Coulter published articles, as I find her repugnant. It was simply for the sake of argument. However, I don't find it all that outlandish that she would.
Aranel
I don't think there's much debate about that question.
MID
QUOTE(louie @ Dec 29 2006, 09:35 AM) [snapback]1477481[/snapback]
If you think George bush will not be rembered as the most unpopular president. wich president was the most unpopular in history



I don't think that President Bush will be remembered as anything close to the least popular President.

I think that Presidents Carter and Nixon will likely occupy those coveted spots.

It will do well to remember that Presidential popularity is not necessarily concurrent with Presidential effectiveness. It is also well to remember that popularity during a President's term, or terms, is cyclical without exception--it waxes and wanes. Historical assessment of popularity will be an overall average.
For instance, In the cases of people like Reagan and Roosevelt, the two aspects went together. They were both very popular overall, and great as well.
In the cases of people like Nixon and Carter, popularity was low, and effectiveness was low, especially in the latter case.
President Clinton was fairly popular, but as far as greatness was concerned, I do not think history will show him anywhere close to the top of the list.

Kennedy on the overall was popular, and historically, he is perceived as an icon almost. As to effectiveness or greatness, history cannot assess him as great, mostly becauise of the fact that despite his vast potential, he has no chance to utilize it (I think he would've been great).
President Lincoln had popularity problems, which were of course due to the fact that about half of a nation hated him due to the particular time he lived in and the nature of what happened to the country. He will however be remembered as great.

President George Bush...
He too lives in a strangely (almost bizarrely) divided period in American history...much different, and more difficult to assess that the schizm that existed in Lincoln's time.

I think his overall popularity will be assessed as just about in the middle of the pack. However, his effectiveness will be on the upper end of the scale...perhaps not in the great category, but close.



Isis2200
QUOTE(Aranel @ Dec 31 2006, 02:06 PM) [snapback]1480517[/snapback]
I don't think there's much debate about that question.


I agree, Aranel. I think his name will be added to the list included with Nixon. Do you think there will ever be another well-loved president like Kennedy? It doesn't seem so because of so much corruption in politics and we hear a lot about conspiracies. I just wish we had a president who was for the people.

What do you think about Obama? I've heard a lot of positive comments about him lately. Do you think he would be a good president?

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis
rob lester
Not sure how any of the Presidents who were voted into two terms could be dubbed "un-popular"....Kind of a oxy-moron...You will see tons of bashing of every President.It is like reading "feedback" on a product , if someone is happy with it , they do not take the time to write how great it is , yet if someone buys a product that does not work for them , they get very mad and the first thing majority of these people do is go straight to letting everyone know not to buy it....While the happy ones sit back and enjoy it....Hope that makes sence...The 2 terms only support majority "enjoy" the product....But again , when it comes to this , the majority of people complaining did not bother to go out and vote...
truethat
It depends really how Iraq turns out. IF Iraq turns out good then he might be hailed as a visionary in later years. If its a disaster then he's a disaster.
Bill Hill

QUOTE(louie @ Dec 29 2006, 02:35 PM) [snapback]1477481[/snapback]
If you think George bush will not be rembered as the most unpopular president. wich president was the most unpopular in history


What’s the conspiracy here?
Aranel
QUOTE(MID @ Jan 1 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]1481439[/snapback]
I don't think that President Bush will be remembered as anything close to the least popular President.

I think that Presidents Carter and Nixon will likely occupy those coveted spots.

It will do well to remember that Presidential popularity is not necessarily concurrent with Presidential effectiveness. It is also well to remember that popularity during a President's term, or terms, is cyclical without exception--it waxes and wanes. Historical assessment of popularity will be an overall average.
For instance, In the cases of people like Reagan and Roosevelt, the two aspects went together. They were both very popular overall, and great as well.
In the cases of people like Nixon and Carter, popularity was low, and effectiveness was low, especially in the latter case.
President Clinton was fairly popular, but as far as greatness was concerned, I do not think history will show him anywhere close to the top of the list.

Kennedy on the overall was popular, and historically, he is perceived as an icon almost. As to effectiveness or greatness, history cannot assess him as great, mostly becauise of the fact that despite his vast potential, he has no chance to utilize it (I think he would've been great).
President Lincoln had popularity problems, which were of course due to the fact that about half of a nation hated him due to the particular time he lived in and the nature of what happened to the country. He will however be remembered as great.

President George Bush...
He too lives in a strangely (almost bizarrely) divided period in American history...much different, and more difficult to assess that the schizm that existed in Lincoln's time.

I think his overall popularity will be assessed as just about in the middle of the pack. However, his effectiveness will be on the upper end of the scale...perhaps not in the great category, but close.


I can't really say,since I don't live in the US.But you don't have to be American to see how bad Bush has done in office.
Isis2200
QUOTE(Aranel @ Jan 1 2007, 06:14 PM) [snapback]1481741[/snapback]
I can't really say,since I don't live in the US.But you don't have to be American to see how bad Bush has done in office.


Well, I live in the US and I do know how bad he's done. It just seems like whoever I vote for never gets into office. But far be it for me to suggest for people not to vote. It's just that when you consider what conspiracy theorists say about it, it's not who we vote for who gets into office as president; it's whoever 'they' want to get into office.(not my personal opinion)

Aranel, I posted a question in my previous post to you. I was wondering what you thought about that.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis
Lord Umbarger
QUOTE
Lets be totally realistic here.
It is going to be hard to top a general of the victorious side of a civil war in US history.
If they had actual population percentage records for sheer hate, Grant would likely always be No.1
Yes, but, that's only because we're from Georgia! Lincoln would also be on the short list if we're going by that scale!

I really don't know who would be the absolute worst. Nuixon was onthe verge of being thrown into prison at one time. Ford ticked a lot of folks off for pardoning him. Jimmy "Iran Hostages" Carter will probably be better remembered for his time after leaving office. J.F. "Bay of Pigs" Kennedy played Russian roulette and nearly got us all nuked. Johnson made few friends in the south by forcing school intergration, Reagan, for all the good he really did do, will forever be marred by the Iran/Contra Scandel. Bush Senior will always be remember as the guy who didn't get Saddam. Clinton will always be thought of as the guy who cuoldn't keep his pants on. Bush Junior will very likely be remembered as the guy who didn't get Osama.

In my book, I'd have to go by what the nation looked like after the man left office. That makes Lincoln the worst. Nearly half of the nation was decimated in the War of Southern Independance by Union forces. In many ways, the South has still not fully recovered. Had he lived to see out his second term, he might have gone down as the new Washington and, in my opinion, we very likely might have renamed the nations capitol in his honor. He was supposed to have had big plans to re-build the South. After his assasination, that never really materialized.

After years of fighting, millions were left dead, many millions more were left destitute, the economy in half the country was destroyed and the only thing that had really changed fro the better (?) was that a couple of million slaves were now free in a land that they didn't understand. In far more ways than schools teach, the nation was worse off after Lincoln died.
landscapecontractor
QUOTE(MID @ Jan 1 2007, 09:13 AM) [snapback]1481439[/snapback]
I don't think that President Bush will be remembered as anything close to the least popular President.

I think that Presidents Carter and Nixon will likely occupy those coveted spots.

It will do well to remember that Presidential popularity is not necessarily concurrent with Presidential effectiveness. It is also well to remember that popularity during a President's term, or terms, is cyclical without exception--it waxes and wanes. Historical assessment of popularity will be an overall average.
For instance, In the cases of people like Reagan and Roosevelt, the two aspects went together. They were both very popular overall, and great as well.
In the cases of people like Nixon and Carter, popularity was low, and effectiveness was low, especially in the latter case.
President Clinton was fairly popular, but as far as greatness was concerned, I do not think history will show him anywhere close to the top of the list.

Kennedy on the overall was popular, and historically, he is perceived as an icon almost. As to effectiveness or greatness, history cannot assess him as great, mostly becauise of the fact that despite his vast potential, he has no chance to utilize it (I think he would've been great).
President Lincoln had popularity problems, which were of course due to the fact that about half of a nation hated him due to the particular time he lived in and the nature of what happened to the country. He will however be remembered as great.

President George Bush...
He too lives in a strangely (almost bizarrely) divided period in American history...much different, and more difficult to assess that the schizm that existed in Lincoln's time.

I think his overall popularity will be assessed as just about in the middle of the pack. However, his effectiveness will be on the upper end of the scale...perhaps not in the great category, but close.

I pretty much agree with you mid. Bush is in the right place at the wrong time. I watched this whole "evil bush" thing grow like a virus or a witch hunt from the mid 1600's. Eventually people will look back historically and the view will be different. There's so much rediculous hype around that man he doesnt stand a chance now, its like an out of control fire.

I pick the un-expected bad president, however he was not unpopular at the time. I pick roosevelt for his part in the pearl harbor conspiracy which is now a proven coverup. Roosevelt must be added to the list of the very worst kind of president, he sacrificed our dads, uncles, brothers and grandfathers to further his own agenda. mad.gif
joc
QUOTE(Reincarnated @ Dec 29 2006, 05:26 PM) [snapback]1477710[/snapback]
rolling stone already named him(bush) the worst U.S. president ever.


Well, that sums it up doesn't it? rolleyes.gif
landscapecontractor
QUOTE(joc @ Jan 1 2007, 07:50 PM) [snapback]1482080[/snapback]
Well, that sums it up doesn't it? rolleyes.gif

Well sure if you value information from liberal pop rags, which I dont. blink.gif
Aranel
QUOTE(Isis2200 @ Jan 1 2007, 07:36 PM) [snapback]1481756[/snapback]
Well, I live in the US and I do know how bad he's done. It just seems like whoever I vote for never gets into office. But far be it for me to suggest for people not to vote. It's just that when you consider what conspiracy theorists say about it, it's not who we vote for who gets into office as president; it's whoever 'they' want to get into office.(not my personal opinion)

Aranel, I posted a question in my previous post to you. I was wondering what you thought about that.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis


Your question about Obama?Sorry I missed it in my last post.I don't really know enough to tell you what I think.
glynne64
Well, first off, I'm not going to knock Sean Wilentz creditials. I do however kinda have to scratch my head about him. He's claiming to know that GWB is going to be the most unpopular president, how? He's only 55 years old!!! What has he seen to make him a good judge of wether a president is popular or not? blink.gif I've got siblings older then that & I'd more readily accept their opinions...why cause they lived through more!!! His creditials & views are shaded by what he's read or heard about, not lived through!!

Also like landscapecontractor:
QUOTE
Well sure if you value information from liberal pop rags, which I dont. blink.gif
To me, I put a few other recent presidents before GWB. But I won't go there. Politics aren't something I care to discuss & my opinions are mine.

NOTE: There has only been 11 presidents since 1951, when Sean was born. How can he speak honestly & truthfully about the other out of 32? hmm.gif Oh, wait...this info is
QUOTE
from liberal pop rags
laugh.gif
MID
QUOTE(Aranel @ Jan 1 2007, 06:14 PM) [snapback]1481741[/snapback]
I can't really say,since I don't live in the US.But you don't have to be American to see how bad Bush has done in office.



That seems like a rather blatant contradiction, no?
The first half of it was correct. If you don't live in the U.S., you probably can't say. In fact, about half the people in the U.S. can't actually say either, because they get their information from the mainstream media, and they believe it, which means they think Bush sucks.

I'm venturing a guess that the majority of the worlds media is similar to the U.S. media in that regard.

However, there are plenty of obvious indicators that Bush has performed rather well, especially given the incredible schizm that exists in America today. The economy is probably as vibrant as it's ever been, and that's largely due to Bush's tax cut...that thing Democrats loathe...despite the fact that one of their predecessors, John Kennedy, did the same thing in the early 1960s, with much the same result (they fancy themselves the party of Kennedy, even to this day, despite the fact that they went in another direction from that party long ago...).

Lord Umbarger
Did anybody else here know that Obamas full name is "Barack Hussein Obama"? I just thought thta I'd share that. I'm very sure that with the last two of his names he is certain to be a hit with all the anti-American sects.
MID
QUOTE(Lord Umbarger @ Jan 2 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]1483694[/snapback]
Did anybody else here know that Obamas full name is "Barack Hussein Obama"? I just thought thta I'd share that. I'm very sure that with the last two of his names he is certain to be a hit with all the anti-American sects.


Yea...and he's already a hit among various American groups, let alone anti-American groups...Barrack Hussein Osama / Obama is currently a running joke, I think because of a Ted kennedy blunder of the lip at one point or another....


Falco Rex
Bush is pretty unpopular overall, but for sheer hatred it's hard to imagine a President hated more in his time than Herbert Hoover..
et's daddy
so many people here bashing Bush, but no one listing reasons

very interesting many of you can follow a thought like sheep but cant come up with an original thought of your own
glynne64
QUOTE(et @ Jan 3 2007, 05:14 AM) [snapback]1484363[/snapback]
so many people here bashing Bush, but no one listing reasons

very interesting many of you can follow a thought like sheep but cant come up with an original thought of your own

Could it be that people are just going by what they have heard on tv or read in magazines/newspapers? Come on people! The media is out to make money. They will say what needs to be said to sell the publication. Simple as that. yes.gif

Do you honestly & sincerely believe that if Bush wasn't in office that we wouldn't be in Iraq? hmm.gif That he's the only politician that thought we should be there? hmm.gif He has all the power in D.C.? hmm.gif Think not. Read up about the checks & balances of our government. Bush is not the all powerful Oz!!!

And if not going to war was wrong...how would do you think we should handle terrorist attacks on U.S. & citizens of other countries? Do you honestly think that some of these countries wouldn't dare think of dropping bombs to prove their point? I honestly don't trust anyone with WMD's, but if they are out there...there are some people I'd much rather not have them! Ya know like the one who was just hung on the same silos that he hung untold numbers of people. angry.gif
Sadonis
Bush isn't America's most unpopular president...we just seem to forget that we had several other presidents before him..before Clinton..before even Reagan that were worse.


For one thing..America takes things WAY to out of line today. At least in the past we had somewhat of a smidgen of common sense when it came to politics..now we just think the government is against us at all times.



Saddening really.
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