Any ides?

It's not a retarded question. Life before birth is just as big of a mystery as life after death.

I think it's one of the biggest arguments the Vatican gives in abortion too. They say you can't be sure when the soul enters the fetus which makes it human.

Birth is an illusion, as is death

The problem with the Vatican is that it is just trying to reach out and gather a handful of people that will join its religion. Hence more money. They also get TV time, publicity..etc.

The laws of the US should not define the difference between an animal and a human as a soul. In fact...it is not allowed to. However, I do object to that thought anyways. I am not human because I have a soul, I am not THAT different from a 500 pound bear. I may weight less...but I define humans by their intelligence. Intelligence as in IQ.



Religion trying to butt in on the lives of people that want nothing to do with it...trying to force them to have a child that they don't want..a child that cannot feel pain(can't get an abortion if the brain and nerves have developed).




Anyways...what happens? There are thousands upon thousands of links that could be given. Hell..your own parents should be able to tell you in fundamental terms.

Does it really matter. You exist here and now is that not enough?

When we die will hopefully learn the secrets of this universe until then we must simple live.

It matters to me.

Is it appropriate to talk about sex on here?

I think so we have before...it depends on context I think...and how appropriate it is.

Some questions just beg to be asked though. Id love to take that "You exist here and now is that not enough?" view. Life would be a lot easier for me. But...I can't stop myself asking these sorts of questions either.

ImAlien - do you have any ideas about what happens before we are born?

I Think nothing special happens... Before someone is born they exist within the universe and always have. Its like building an snowman and then smashing it down to rebuild another one. Its the same snow everytime. Every time a piece of matter gets consciousness it likes to think it only exists here and now, when infact it exists everywhere. Consciousness is matter, and all the matter there is are built up by the same energy.

Somthing like that It might sound strange for some people that all humans and animals actually are the same person.
I guess it depends if you belive the whole universe to be one big piece of energy or if you belive there is diffrent parts or if you believe in the soul.

But then offcourse you never know, maybe there is a god and souls... I do want to believe in the supernatural i just dont see any proof and experiences can be explained with something that we do know exist.

Its hard to say because we have no recolection of that time period. When we die will we remember this life? Will we be a spirit/soul/energy? If so where will we be? What will we do and interact with? I wish i could remeber things like that or at least my infancy. Sadly i can only remeber back to 6th grade clearly the rest is all "blury" memories. I wouldn't Be so upset by this, but I'm not even 20 and Im losing all my memories of childhood.

It only gets worse!

Have to quote on this *much worse* lol

The view held by the vast majority of those few who bother to think about it (but strangely, perhaps not the same majority of U.M readers) might go like this.
The physical unification of male and physical cells is fairly well understood. The consequent genetic programming, growth and development is not fully understood, but we are getting there.
This begins way before birth. (One of the logical arguments why human rights should pertain to unborn babies, but that is not relevant to this question except peripheraly)
The organic brain also develops, and begins processing data, before birth, but this is greatly sped up once birth occurs and more data is available. Either through design(creation) or long years of evolution, The brain, and the mind associated with it, is a thing of great power and wonder. It is almost impossible to over emphasise how much this is so .This power can be good, neutral or evil, and i will let you decide if these are relative or absolute terms. Look at what exists in the world today, only because of the human mind, and then imagine what it would be like if it had never existed.
So, before you are born is a small but important part of the growth and development of both your physical, and your mental, capacities. Many potentials and abilities are a consequence of your genetic programming (Your hard drive if you like.) But many are also dependent on the nature and quality of the data input.
There may be nothing spiritual or supernatural about this. It may be simply part of a logical, scientifically explainable process. But because of the nature of our minds, and our quest for answers, we often imbue such critical questions with supernatural answers, when we don't fully understand the science involved. Everything from a mothers love for a child, to the child's physical and mental nature, can be explained by science .For example we are both biologically and cultually conditioned to protect and nurture our offspring, and love is one component of this.
But then the human mind comes into play again, creating an overlay of constructs and beliefs. There is nothing inherently wrong with this. It is part of what makes us human. But we do need to be aware of, and understand, all the forces that make us what we are; from the moment of conception, until death. After that it is a whole different ballgame.

I think this is near to my way of thinking - that we all come from/are the same matter and are fueled by the same energy - the same cosmic womb

Actually, there is a book that may interest you on this subject, it is called "Life between Life" by Dr Joel L. Whitton PhD and Joe Fisher. You may find it on Amazon. It goes on to describe subjects that have discussed (during hypnotism) their memories before they were born, what happened just after they died, what they saw, heard, felt etc etc.

Whether you believe it or not, it makes quite interesting reading.

Personally, I believe we plan our lives, we have a blueprint sort of thing. This thought was reinforced when I read the above book and one of the things that came to light was that when a person's "blueprint" was completed, but it was not their time to die, they sort of had an "open book" for the rest of their lives. Now according to some of the subjects in the book, this was not sought after because it brought with it unknown experiences in the future that were not originally planned and did seem to induce fear for those concerned.

It certainly gives you food for thought and I always think it is a good idea to get loads of different views anyway, before you make up your own mind lol.

According to Oerinetal philosphies, you were in another body, got old and died, went to heaven/hell, stayed there, then got "bored" and came back, or were pulled back by karma to be paid, unfulfilled dreams and missions to be fulfilled. That is why you are here.

Lol ever since I was young I remember seeing leafs(fall, autumn, reddish and the such) before I was born, thats the only thing. It might of been later on that I saw leaves and it stuck in my head but I stil l grasp onto that idea just a little. Considering I seemed to understand what they were b4 I learned about what they were.

If we are reborn after death then there is no such thing as before we are born and after we die.

Interesting thought. Go see the eye opening film "What The Bleep Do We Know", especially the bit where I think it is John Hagelin, Ph.D explains that molecules and atoms (and so every bit of matter) is mostly made up from empty spaces between elementary particles. (To make a mental picture : imagine a basketball as an atoms nucleus, the electrons are like grains of sand circling the basketball at a distance of 15 miles).

The quote that sticks in my hand since then is: The deepest level of truth uncovered by science and by philosophy is the fundamental truth of the unity. At the deepest sub-nuclear level of our reality, you and I are literally one.

Food for thought...

Developmental Biology
Unless of course you refering to pre conception, in which case you where an egg and a sperm cell

i think that when we die we realize everything that we were before we were born. its gonna be like a "i totally remember this now" kinda moment.

I suppose that you would have to have a different perspective then those fostered by what pass's for human here. The vatican is wrong, as they are in everything. You are human, your body mind and voice makes you so. There is no soul, just what i stated. They use the soul analogy to frighten their constituents. Along with all the other hooha. In my mind, experianceing other scenario's, i have seen that, and all the other vile places the religious call their nonexistant gods house's burn.

Destroyed by free humans who are very, very tired, of the trash they fling about{control}. That time is not so distant, everything i have seen in my own experiance's throughout the scenario worlds, shows me that.

If i were to say that the human being who has been tasked unwillingly with the yeah or nay of that destruction, has lived not only since the begginning amoung you, but also has lived the last forty years in this very scenario, watching and experianceing the casual cruelty of religious society's laws and dictates, and that he despises them immensely, what would you say?

Only a man could say birth is an illusion!

Birth, by no means is an illusion. I'm a woman and twice experienced in that area.

Our souls are in another dimension working and planning with our spirit guides what our life will be in "this" dimension. We prepare our lessons and after that is settled, our soul enters the body in utero. YMMV.

well put my friend

Life before birth IS life after death...life after death IS life before birth....

while I can't say much for hypnotism , I do believe that we plan our lives. each and every experience for a reason. a huge puzzle that makes sense only afterwards. much the same reason that free will is an illusion. God (we) know all before hand leave no room for free will. in any given moment you can only pick one - the one that was ment to be picked.

the illusion of free will is logical even if you only agree with the point that God knows everything. if God indeed knows everything , every step we take , that leaves no room for free will or one has to admit that in fact God does not know everything since our 'choice' can go against what he knows .

excellent point - we die and it all makes sense. even to the christian who finds themselves next to the muslim next to the hindu ect......

I hope that's true, this question is a real thinker. Are we just here to live, and die and that's it. Does life have a point?

you get to pick ur parents...and...i think you get to 'write it all down too'...your next life.

If God created man in his image... then are we gods or is he man? And I'm not sure about the 'before birth' answer I just gave either... I just read it somewhere.

Maybe you remember this.

Jeremiah 1:5

5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

thank you for sharing that Bella - I'm afraid I don't remember tho... I've never fully read the bible or any of the holy books. <blushes>
but i'm seeing bits and pieces of some of the books now... interesting reads they are.
There is indeed more to learn... thank you again dear. xo

Read up on the intrinsic data field (IDF) and Cymatics. The IDF is a measurable energy filed that pre-exists, or simultaneously exists (before and after) with the physical body. The IDF is known through Cymatic experiments that compare the IDF to the physical body to calibrate any inconsistencies between the two. The IDF is not spiritual but it is the energy that describes the vehicle for the soul. The medium seems best described as bio-intelliegence given that our physical body's are transceivers of energy. Amazingly it is non contiguous which when better understood will help us to utilize our consciusness over a distance, in other words, psychic.

At the moment of conception, a new arrow, if you will, springs into t existence and compatible energies may enter through this portal. According to Edgar Cayce (last chapter - There is a River), souls choose which body which is very interesting as this suggests conscious integration beyond physicality. We do not remember because the phsical world is a relative world where limits determine the extent of our interactions. This is far too vast to analyze here but think of a balancing scale, the more of one thing s the less of another. Memory of the eternal cannot exist simulateous within physical boundaries, though we canlearn to tap into it.

The point of this knowledge is take away away the fear that some have of death. Would you want to know whan you are going to die?

what happens before we are born? i don't think any1 knows tha answer. but it is quite a thinker...

Canna I have seen divine intervention. I have seen vehicle's where people have survived and they shouldn't have, period. And there is no reason for them to be here. There was no "life room" for them in the vehicle. (In other words it was crushed too bad.) I have heard a driver's statement where they were sitting at a red light and when it turned green the gas pedal just would not go. They kept pushing and it woud not go. When they pushed it and it did go, they were right behind a crash that would have killed them. (Someone ran a red light; they would have been T-boned.). There was a mechanical inspection done on the vehicle and nothing was wrong with it. This driver was not religious. They did not believe in anything spiritual until this happened to them.

I do believe everyone has a soul. I must say that I do not believe one religion is correct. I believe that a specific religion or denomination is correct for that specific person. In my church I have never heard anyone try to freighten anyone. There is no guilt. There are no scare tactics. I believe that God doesn't get mad at us. He's like a loving father, wanting us to do the right thing.

And what's so wrong with believing in something? If people like you have the last laugh, well then you have the last laugh. I have seen such suffering that I have questioned the exsistence of God before. (Children screaming while they're burning, dying, in a vehicle and no one can save them.) And I think it's okay to question. I hate to say this because it sounds so cliche; but I know he has a plan. Some people can't become what they're supposed to become unless they have a life altering experience. (By the way I don't think those children suffered, I think God, or whatever someone calls it, took them before they felt the first burn.) But that day changed so many peoples lives, including mine.

If I may sak Canna, were you Catholic at one time? I apologize if you have already stated this somwhere. I am new to this forum. You seem to have such anger and resentment against this denomination.

In essence this is the fact as quoted.
Before you plugged yourself into a body, you existed.
We all knew we would be capable of incredible things, wondrous things.
Once inside flesh, the physical brain is a powerful thing.
The brain becomes influenced by its senses, it overwrites everything and erases.

You can see it in your newborns, young children still have traces, but it all becomes forgotten.

It is up to you to use this "life", you can become greatness.
However becoming prophetic has a price, people who have been conditioned to this "material" existence will view you as a threat, others will feed your weakness of doubt.
Perhaps one day you might see reality slide away and realize the essence that you truly are.

Well that would be the case if a soul left one body and immediately entered another.

However, I believe there is a "space" between dying in one life and being born into another, this presents the "before we are born" and "after we die" scenerio.

I'm just wondering, in this view do people really exist and have a soul in the same way as you do. Are they just robots, maybe like charchters in a video game.

Or did we all cooperate with one another in making our life plans, like one massive group project.

Also what would be the point of planning a life in which you die early on, like in the case of SIDS. Is there still a lesson that can be learned from such an experience?

Thanks.

Read my Post here in my blog:
The Central Theory

This might interest you.

I think it's all like a gigantic puzzle. all the pieces fit but in human form we are too close to it to see it whole. just like looking at a single brush stroke on a painting doesn't make much sense.

My view became this way after my sister in laws brothers first born died at 2 from cancer that spread to his brain. He had cancer since birth. you can ask why . but his life did affect those around him. we were the ones that learned. His short life did have meaning and purpose.

our lives affect people everyday, even those we don't know and never meet. for example. you accidentally cut a guy off and are unaware . he slams on his brakes to avoid rearing you and instead gets rear ended. drivers get out , exchange info. wait for police ( which takes forever) and find they have alot in common , start dating and marry. ( yeah far out example but stranger things have happened) all because some unknown jerk cut him off.

remember the stone dropped in a pond metaphor - the ripples go off in all directions.

that also is an arguement against free will. God knows all and all has a purpose accordingly. we can't help but follow it. choice is an illusion we are given to keep the human mind interested perhaps. but at any rate an illusion since we can only pick one aka the one that was planned for us. If we knew where we were going emotions would be pretty much useless and unwarrented.

but it fits if you look at it as spiritual beings having a human experience.

I am surprised that this thread awakened from its sleep. I actually made this thread when i was drunk and i wanted to forget about it the next morning But it wasent that bad as i thought, thx for all great posts.

Anyways, I was interested in what people would think about this common question but insteed after the end I asked before the very start because of some reason. I had this theory that everyhting that exists is the the same piece of energy but deformed to molecules and other stuff. That would make person A no different from person B in its simplest form. So there is only one person behind our minds controlling us, the universe. You were only deformed when you were born and existed in everything before and always will.

This theory is my way of making sense of life before and after. And people that dont wanna try, dont bother posting.

Did i repeat myself? I wrote a longer question in my first post but deleted it, dont remember exactly what it was. sry

Hypnotism, was used, to try to bring forth memories from the mind. One... Scientist? Actually got the information of the subject (person hes hypnotizing) before he was born. Ill try to find ze article. =]

if we do have other lifes and another life, I'm sure it all fits together like a giant puzzle. pieces go everywhere, ties being connected through soooo many ppl, all for a plan.

When I read the book "Life Between Life" - which featured subjects being regressed to the space between one incarnation and another, it did mention that when planning a life, things also had to be arranged with other souls that were to be involved and that many times the same groups of souls incarnated at the same time, life after life.

In a SIDS case, it may not be the baby that has to learn a lesson but perhaps the parents or the family or even maybe people around that baby at the time.

It also mentioned in the book that the one thing people should not permit themselves is Envy of another, as we all choose our paths beforehand. Maybe the "freewill" extends to the time of this "Planning".

We find that out after this life. I believe that we remember who and what we really are once the play and acting on the stage of life is over.

Mr Walker, how ya doin?



But, the question resides before this. What happens before this? Yes, it is understood how two come together as one to produce another, but how is the 'entity,' the organism produced from the joining of 1/2 cell to 1/2 cell? Where are you before you become you? You are your parents. All of the experiences of your parents are you. At the 'moment' of causing you to be born, a copy of all the matrix of your father is put inside the matrix of the copy of the body of your mother and is put out into the environment to improve on the matrices using the environment.



Well Blue, is it like we are going to find out what we are supposed to know? Or maybe, what is coming after us has nothing to do with what we do know?

Thanks Lt Ripley and Lotus Flower, that makes perfect sence. I feel kinda dumb for asking the question now, I obviously didn't look at it from all angles.