..Ever thought of this!!!!..Has there been a great 'Cover-up'?

Has 'History' been 'White-washed'!!!!!!!!




"Like Christ, ALL founders of world religions on ALL continents were BLACK and “woolly” haired, including the earliest gods.

Buddha was Black! That’s why his woolly hair is always shown in small tight curls, peppercorn style or cornrows. Early sculptures of him clearly reveal his Aficoid features ...wide nose and full lips. So was Zaha of Japan, Fu-Hsi of China, Tyr of Scandinavia, Quetzalcoatl of Mexico, Sommonacom of Siam and Isis of Egypt and Rome. Krishna of India was “blue-black,” in fact his means black, or the Black One! (See dictionary). He is always portrayed with blue or blue-black skin.

Mohammed, founder of Islam was also ‘bluish’ in color with ‘frizzy’ hair. His grandfather was “black as the night.”

Moses was Black according to Mohammedan tradition and early portraits. His hand would turn white, then back to his “other flesh” when God wished to give him a sign. (Ex. 4:6,7).

Lao Tse of Taoism was “a divine incarnation ...born of a virgin black in complexion and as beautiful as jasper.” (Thorton: History of China Vol. 1) The chief title of Osiris, the greatest of Egyptian gods means “Lord of the Perfect Black.” He was also called “The Great Black,” similar to Krishna. The chief title of Zeus, greatest of the Greek gods was “Ethiops” which means, “burnt faced.” Early statues of gods in India have Africoid features and woolly or locked hair. The name of the Mexican god Ixtliton means “blacked faced.” In fact, many ancient Mexican gods are portrayed jet black with Africoid features. "

http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/blacked_out...h_whitewash.htm


"

As revealed in Anthony Browder's fascinating From the Browder File, the Founding Fathers sought to recreate in America the same energies which guided the Africans of the Nile Valley by using African science, architecture and symbols (with no credit to them) as shown:


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The Founding Fathers and all the U.S.
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presidents were Masons (except Lincoln and Kennedy).
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Masons and other secret orders such as the Rosicrucian’s 7 Illuminati are patterned after the Sacred Mystery Schools (universities) of ancient Egypt.
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The word 'Mason' means 'child of the sun' and is derived from the African terms Sons 7 Daughters of Light (or Children of the Sun).
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The sun symbolizes enlightenment; hence these metaphors mean 'enlightened people.' The Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution are Masonic documents, written in the Masonic code and have different meaning to members of the Masonic order.
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Look on the back of the dollar bill and see for yourself how the Founding Fathers composed the Great Seal of America with African symbols: The Eye of Horus/God, pyramid, six-pointed star (made up of 13 stars), and the eagle -their imitation of Egypt's sacred sun Falcon, a symbol for Horus. Stan Deyo's provocative Cosmic Conspiracy provides more insights.
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The Washington monument, a symbol of America, is an African obelisk! The obelisk was the symbol of the very Black Egyptian god, Osiris who represented the regenerative powers of God and was worshiped as the impregnating force of the universe. The obelisk later became part of the worship of the Egyptian Sun God, "Ra," from which we get the words "ra, radiation." The obelisk is also found at the Vatican in St. Peter's square and in every major city in the world. It is the origin of church steeples!
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Egyptian Design: The Lincoln Memorial is patterned after an Egyptian temple honoring the pharaoh, Ramsese II. Meridian Hill Park (AKA Malcolm X Park) was designed to align Washington D.C. to the same meridian (pathway to the sun) which passes through Egypt. So-called European architecture (like the Capitol, Parthenon, cathedrals) is copied from African architecture! (Mosques, obelisks, temples)
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A Black scientist designed the city. The layout and design of Washington D.C. was accomplished by America's first Black man of science, Benjamin Banneker - astronomer and mathematician."

Hmmmmmmm 117 views... seems like nobody wants to touch this with a fifteen foot poll. I will though.. *what to say, what to say* Ummm Jesus could have been black, this would upset a large amount of the european roman cathoics over the age of 30. Since they are the only ones that really follow it.
Alot of the world has been "white washed" not the term i would use when your talking about it out side of Northamerica, European nations did lots of tradeing with asia, africa, what is now Northamerica leaving lots of their knowledge and culture behind. Point is "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"
and right now, The white man is absolutely corrupted. And we were back in early modern europe. The rise of power and the rise of racisim. If you dont know how the two connect, you need to do some thinking.

Very interesting

Now lets go to the coulour YELLOW ?

Am I the only one wondering what would happen if we asked Jade Goody this question?

Considering all Japanese have a white/yellowish tone to their skin, the idea that Buddha was black is completely false.

I'm willing to concede that some of the people mentioned may have been African in descent. I find it very difficult to believe, however, that they all were. With all the colors and all the areas that these people came from it just seems highly illogical. Dark skinned is one thing, but saying "black" is implying African so I assume that is what you mean.

The idea of Jesus being dark skinned upsetting anyone quite frankly ticks me off. To believe in him and follow his word would mean not caring what the color of anyone's skin may be. Last I checked it wasn't "Love thy neighbor if he happens to be white".

I think Jesus was Arab.

I'm not buying the Asian "gods" being black. As for Jesus, I didn't think he was black. Thought he was middle - eastern? hmm.... Definately didn't look like the Catholic church would have you believe though.

I doubt much of the above. It reeks of political correctness --- which is just another way of lying and ignoring certain, uncomfortable truths.

As for Jesus being black. Nah, doubt it. He was middle eastern, no doubt. I think the best description I've heard of him came from a debate on this very subject. The point was made:
"Was Jesus black? No. But would He have been served at a lunch counter in Selma, Alabama in 1963? No."

I'm sure He wasn't the blue-eyed, blonde Causcasion we've sometimes seen but did he have nappy hair, large lips and other characteristics of Negroids? I don't think so or he would have been mentioned as being Nubian or black or some such thing.

What's next? Napoleon was 6'5" and played basketball in his spare time?

"As revealed in Anthony Browder's fascinating From the Browder File ..."
Knew it! Got a book, film or blog to promote!
Gotcha!

lets take it easy with the stereotypes buddy, they are pretty extreme.....and your not funny.

Buddhism orginated in india.

http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html

ANCIENT AFRICA AND EARLY INDIA

Exceptionally valuable writings reflecting close relationships between Africa and early India have existed for more than two thousand years. In the first century B.C.E., for example, the famous Greek historian Diodorus Siculus penned that, "From Ethiopia he (Osiris) passed through Arabia, bordering upon the Red Sea as far as India.... He built many cities in India, one of which he called Nysa, willing to have remembrance of that (Nysa) in Egypt, where he was brought up."

Another important writer from antiquity, Apollonius of Tyana, who is said to have visited India near the end of the first century C.E., was convinced that "The Ethiopians are colonists sent from India, who follow their forefathers in matters of wisdom." The literary work of the early Christian writer Eusebius preserves the tradition that, "In the reign of Amenophis III [the mighty Dynasty XVIII Egyptian king] a body of Ethiopians migrated from the country about the Indus, and settled in the valley of the Nile." And still another document from ancient times, the Itinerarium Alexandri, says that "India, taken as a whole, beginning from the north and embracing what of it is subject to Persia, is a continuation of Egypt and the Ethiopians."

http://www.africanbynature.com/newsletters...icanschina.html

Yes, I know. Sorry, my philosophy/idea of Buddhism is subjective to a modern influence, namely China and Japan. I forgot to give credit where credit was due.

As far as I can remember,Banneker was only hired to help do the survey of the boundary areas where Washington D.C. would be set,not do the actual planning.There is also a possible myth surrounding this...the myth being that Banneker managed to draw the plans from memory after L'Enfant resigned and took his plans with him.The timeline doesn't quite match up though,due to Banneker leaving the project in 1791...before L'Enfant resigned in 1792.Plus,there were apparently several copies (various versions) of L'Enfant's plans floating around at that time.

So,I'd have to say that this part is pure bunk.

...

Jesus was a Jew,therefore he would have the same Middle Eastern appearance as the rest of his culture.

Tyr was a Nordic deity,and I cannot recall any description of him ever saying that he had dark skin and "Africoid" features.



Buddha was Indo-European and almost all depictions of him show a type of head-covering which gives the appearance described by this "Anthony Browder" as "hair" being kept in "small tight curls","peppercorn style" or "cornrows".

...

We all know that there is a lot of architecture here in the U.S. (and other areas) which were influenced by the architecture of the Egyptians.There is also a lot that is influenced by Classical Greek architecture.

...

Looking for anything about this author,I cannot find much except a mention that he is self-taught and has no degrees in his field of study.Therefore,he appears to be yet another self-aggrandizing person attempting to re-write history...giving his own race more recognition.

Truthfully,I do not mind people doing this...but some go too far.I do believe that we do not know as much about ancient African history as we would like...but I do not think that we (or he) should attempt to make such grandiose claims as he is doing without proper evidence to back up such claims.

...

This thread reminds me quite a bit of an older thread in which we discussed a different author's ideas that the Trojan War was actually held in England.Just like in that one,claims by the author should be considered as pure bunk *unless* there is sufficient evidence to back them up to a point beyond a reasonable doubt.

...

Edited a slight mistake in wording.

jesus was a jew from isreal he of course would have dark skin. thats a given.

...and what about this theory....


http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/we/we04.htm

"The excavations of Petrie revealed in Egypt the remains of a distinct race that preceeded the historic Egyptians. The earliest civilization was higher than that of the later dynasties. Its purer art represents an "Old Race" that fills all the background of the pre-historic ages. It colonized the first civilized centers of the primitive world. The ancients called this pioneer ram which lit the torch of art and science, Cush**e Ethiopians, the founders of primeval cities and civilized life. The wonders of India, to which Europe sought a passage in the age of Columbus, the costly products and coveted merchandise of Babylon, and the amazing prehistoric civilization of Asia Minor, sprang from this little recognized source. The achievements of this race in early ages were the result of co-operation. Cush**es reached the true zenith of democracy. Their skillful hands raised Cyclopean walls dug out mighty lakes and laid imperishable roads that have endured throughout the ages. This was the uniform testimony of ancient records. Modern writers seem of superficial research, either being unaware of these facts, or knowing, purposely ignore them. Archaeologists dig up the proofs,

p. 16

ethnologists announce their origin, but history refuses to change its antiquated and exploded theories.

There seems to be fear to tell about these ancients, who built mighty cities, the ruins of which extend in uninterrupted succession around the shores of the Mediterranean Sea. Traces of this hoary empire, works appearing to have been wrought by giants, hearing marks of Cush**e genius, have been found by scientists all over the primitive world.

We marvel at the wonders recently unearthed in Egypt. Let us look behind her through the glasses of science at the "Old Race" of which

p. 17

she was in her beginning, only a colony. Ethiopia was the source of all that Egypt knew and transmitted to Greece and Rome. We are accustomed to think of Ethiopia as a restricted country in Africa but this was not true. The study of ancient maps and the descriptions of the geographers of old, reveals that the ancient Land of Cush was a very widespread and powerful empire. Rosenmuller shows us that the Hebrew scholars called Cush, all the countries of the torrid zone. It was the race that Huxley saw akin to the Dravidians of India, stretching in an empire from India to Spain. The Greeks described Ethiopia as the country around the Indus and Ganges. (Rosenmuller's Biblical Geography, Bk. III, p. 154.)H. G. Wells says that the Hamitic tongue was a much wider and more varied language than the Semitic or Aryan in ancient days. 1 It was the language of the Neolithic peoples who occupied most of western and southern Asia, who may have been related to the Dravidians of India and the people of George Elliot's Heliolithic culture. Sir H. H. Johnson says that this lost Hamitic language was represented by the scattered branches of Crete, Lydia, the Basques, the Caucasian-Dravidian group, the ancient Sumerian and the Elamite. The peoples of this race were the first to give the world ideas of government. Stephanus of Byzantium, voicing the universal testimony of antiquity wrote, "Ethiopia was the

p. 18

first established country on earth and the Ethiopians were the first to set up the worship of the gods and to establish laws." The later ages gained from this ancient empire, the fundamental principles upon which republican governments are founded. The basic stones of that wonderful dominion were equality, temperence, industry, intelligence and justice........ ...In the light of reason, who would know about the ethnic relations of the ancients, the scholars and historians of Egypt, Chaldea and Greece, who are more and more corroborated by the findings of science, or the theories of the men of today? The modern writer whose research has been superficial does not know that before the days of Grecian and Roman ascendency, the entire circle of the Mediterranean and her islands was dotted with the magic cities and the world-wide trade of Ethiopians. The gods and goddesses of the Greeks and Romans were but the borrowed kings and queens of this Cush**e empire of Ethiopians. So marvelous had been their achievements in primitive ages, that in later days, they were worshipped as immortals by the people of India, Egypt, old Ethiopia, Asia Minor and the Mediterranean world."

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/1...g-jackson-1939/


——————————————————————————–
“It is pretty well settled that the city is the Negro’s great contribution to civilization, for it was in Africa where the first cities grew up.” E. Haldeman-Julius

“Those piles of ruins which you see in that narrow valley watered by the Nile, are the remains of opulent cities, the pride of the ancient kingdom of Ethiopia. … There a people, now forgotten, discovered while others were yet barbarians, the elements of the arts and sciences. A race of men now rejected from society for their sable skin and frizzled hair, founded on the study of the laws of nature, those civil and religious systems which still govern the universe.” Count Volney

“The accident of the predominance of white men in modern times should not give us supercilious ideas about color or persuade us to listen to superficial theories about the innate superiority of the white-skinned man. Four thousand years ago, when civilization was already one or two thousand years old, white men were just a bunch of semi-savages on the outskirts of the civilized world. If there had been anthropologists in Crete, Egypt, and Babylonia, they would have pronounced the white race obviously inferior, and might have discoursed learnedly on the superior germ-plasm or glands of colored folk.” Joseph McCabe..."

"Herodotus wrote in his celebrated History that both the Western Ethiopians, who lived in Africa, and the Eastern Ethiopians who dwelled in India, were black in complexion, but that the Africans had curly hair, while the Indians were straight-haired. (The aboriginal black inhabitants of India are generally referred to as the Dravidians, of whom more will be said as we proceed.)...“Recent linguistic discovery tends to show that a Cush**e or Ethiopian race did in the earliest times extend itself along the shores of the Southern Ocean from Abyssinia to India. The whole peninsula of India was peopled by a race of their character before the influx of the Aryans; it extended from the Indus along the seacoast through the modern Beluchistan and Kerman, which was the proper country of the Asiatic Ethiopians; the cities on the northern shores of the Persian Gulf are shown by the brick inscriptions found among their ruins to have belonged to this race; it was dominant in Susiana and Babylonia, until overpowered in the one country by Aryan, in the other by Semitic intrusion; it can be traced both by dialect and tradition throughout the whole south coast of the Arabian peninsula.”


"Around 500 BCE an African living in India called Gautama would establish a religion called Buddhism which would come to dominate Chinese thought. Any one who is in doubt should consult Geoffrey Higgins’s Anacalypsis, Albert Churchward’s Origin and development of Religions, Gerald Massey’s Egypt the Light of the World, Riunoko Rashidi’s African Presence in Early Asia and J A Roger’s Sex and Race Vol 1. Many Africans survived the Mongol invasion into the twentieth century only to be exterminated by Chairman Mao’s programme of Cultural cleansing. Under this programme millions of Africans and Afro-Asians were killed from 1951-1956. Contribute we still did, giving the People’s Republic of China its first Chief Minister in the name of Eugene Chen, a Trinidadian of George Street, Port-of-Spain, who was of an African mother and a Chinese father.

For further reading on this individual one should consult J A Rogers’ World’s Great Men of Colour Vol I. So next time the word China or Chinese is mentioned remember that Africans played a pivotal role in launching what is called Chinese civilisation, if such a thing exists."



http://www.raceandhistory.com/

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/1...g-jackson-1939/

Black History Month ???
well let me teach u some history
actually more like present...
why are as u call them "White" people superior ???
here is a tought because at the moment there is no WHITE people living in CAVES... however we still have "African" group living in medieval type villages,,,
how about indians still living in 17th centry villages ..... thats why people THINK that whites are superior.... there is an easy way to put blacks on THE MAP....
a)MOVE INTO CITIES
b)BECOME "THE MAN" AN U BE THE ONE WRITING THE HISTORY
c)OR you could always write on internet about how things should be done

i am sure the opetion C is the best one




Nothing in this post was ment as insult to anyone ... just pointing out irony in someone trying to change something over the internet ...

Can't we all just get along

Oddly enough, out of all the stuff I have seen in this thread, THIS is the only thing that has offended me.

I think bringing race up in this context is pure folly to begin with. I can't imagine ANY semi educated human being with an ounce of logic in their head believing Christ was a blue eyed caucasion.
Attempting to describe all these other historical figures as African is also folly. Ghandi was racially victimized, and he was not black (African). He was dark skinned by birth (Indian) as well as very tan from spending time outdoors. It almost seems like some people want to "darken" history as backlash to the "white-washing" done by eurocentrics in midievel times.
While I understand the need for people of any racial background to seek out people of their own race as role models, or to be proud of, please don't think that the more people of "your race" there are to look up to makes you any better in MOST peoples eyes.

"Looking for anything about this author,I cannot find much except a mention that he is self-taught and has no degrees in his field of study.Therefore,he appears to be yet another self-aggrandizing person attempting to re-write history...giving his own race more recognition."

I agree with the above quote.

PS
Tupak is dead, get over it. Killed by the lifestyle he chose, as indicated by the gang sign flashed in your avatar. Too bad talent is not tolerated by the generation and culture he immersed himself in.
sorry about the 4 edits, I got way ahead of myself................

Preposterous. The author assumes the reader will not investigate this ridiculous "white hand - black hand" claim.

check it out:

Exodus 4:1,8


God turned Moses' hand leprous, not from black to white. This was an example of how two "miraculous signs" can be more convincing than just one.



Silly fluffery. The obelisk in St. Peter's square was brought there from Egypt. Why is that pertinant? And, "...the origin of church steeples!" ??? Come on.



You ask "..what about this theory?" so I will answer you. It is wrong, that's what about it. This book was written in 1926. Here's some of what your source, Sacred-texts.com, has to say about this book and it's significance:

Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/we/index.htm
My emphases.

In my opinion, the question to be pursued here is not what color Jesus was, but rather whether or not Jesus even existed at all. After all, if he didn't, then what's the point of discussing the skin color of a mythological character? Might as well ask what color Frodo's skin was.

Harte

Well, apparently you did insult one person: Me.

Having a light complexion does not make a man superior; civility and intelligence does.

Exactly.I can understand the want or need to have more of an understanding of one's culture and history.But to falsify things based upon a slight similarity with something else goes too far,especially when we have a lot of historical evidence that points to the contrary.

Browder would definitely have to show some conclusive evidence for his theories in order for them to be even remotely believed.It's a shame that there are so many gullible people out there who would be so quick to believe anything (and possibly *everything*) this guy says.




I agree.




Very well said.

lets stop puting words into peoples mouth could we ???
its a same as saying AMERICA is supirior to almost every other country in the world...
nothing to do with anything just a TRUTHFULL VIEW OF CURENT SITUATION...
T.O.B. as u can see i never said WHITE people should be SUPERIOR all i said is ... at this point in time they ARE ....

Wow. I don't even understand what the point of the original post was. Are you trying to say that every "great" religious leader was dark skinned? Well, a lot of them were dark skinned. WHat's your point? That through history, the last 2000 years mainly, western culture has transformed dark skinned people into white skinned people? I think the only person on your list that even fits that description is Jesus Christ. We see pictures and paintings of him as a white man, even though historically we know Jesus was a jew.

We all descended from dark skinned people, we originated in Africa. Technically we are all africans. We should be the African race. I'm a white person saying this. African, to me, has nothing to do with skin color. When your an African AMerican it means you came from Africa, but it's stupid to even classify people as such since all of us came from Africa technically, it's just Af-Amer came much more recently. This topic has turned into a racial conversation instead of a historical one.

Anyways, the only "white washed" person in history that I can think of is Jesus, none of those other people you mentioned have been "white washed". Except maybe Moses, but Moses in my opinion is a Mythological figure. We don't have any proof that Moses was a real person in the way that the Bible describes him. He could have been any religious leader since the Exodus story could have been a re-told story from centuries before it was actually written down in the bible.

In addition, it is absurd to quote the Bible for any reason on this forum. The bible is NOT a historically accurate representation of the world's history. Please, do not use the Bible as proof for anything.

I wasnt saying this thread is a stereotype you should of read what i was replying to. A guy above that post was getting carried away saying such things as " but did he have nappy hair, large lips and other characteristics of Negroid" and "What's next? Napoleon was 6'5" and played basketball in his spare time?
" It wasnt at the thread itsself i think its an interesting topic but dont be so quick to judge. oh and, i know tupac is dead.. congratulations? and you dont know much about tupac. he helped ALOT more people than you think he did, his life wasnt just violence and court dates.

Recently China sent up three missiles into outer space to shot down as a target one of their aging satellites, one accomplished the job. Afterwards, the United States began talks to sanction China for such an act and ambigiously claimed outer space was the property of the United States (U.S. airspace). America (i.e. their government) exacts the belief that they rule the world, but what they don't know is they're setting themselves up for a great disappointment. No one says America is superior, they just think they are, and with Caligula as their leader.

Most of us didn't vote for that jack#ss, we are being held hostage, please help!

On your side on this one. Stereotypes get old and the post you were replying to was a bit over the top in that regard.


Another one to be careful with. Maybe those not living in the states aren't aware of what the polls say, but the majority of us are unhappy with the President and the state of our politics in general. We aren't armchair politicians sitting back and cheering him on yelling, "Yeah, go and tick off another country, Bush!!" Remember how Caligula's rule ended?

i live in what i would call REPUBLICAN STRONGHOLD in USA and even people areound here cant stand the things hes doing so go figure ...
as for us beeing a power thats not what descusion was about... i belive it was about race...
p.s. we ALL know that if china cut its exports to usa... Usa would fall down faster than a rock...

No one race is superior to any other.To think otherwise is to delude yourself.

...

Each and every culture (or race) has a long history.Unfortunately,some of the early history of each has been lost.Yet,there is still an ongoing search for whatever information we can find about the lost portions of these histories.Only time will show whether we will be able to find anything or not.Until then,there can only be speculation.

I saw his thread, and I think it was related in the spirit of absurdity, nothing more. Making fun of stupid stereotypes does not offend me. Worshipping them does. I find it a shame that Tupac died like he did. But I just feel that he was a victim of a culture he embraced, and to mourn his death is akin to mourning a suicide. I feel for him, not because he was murdered, but because he was so damaged, he did this to himself. Just my personal take on it.

Stereotype?
Any anthropologist would tell you that Negroid is a valid classification of race. It includes a number of general traits, such as wide noses, large lips, wooly, tightly kinked hair and so on. The Caucasoid race is recognizable by smaller noses, generally straight hair, a narrower skull and so on.
It's not a stereotype to recognize that there are differences between the recognized races.

When an archaeologist finds a skull, it can be categorized by the number of traits common to a race. At times, it lacks certain traits and is a puzzle. The ancient skeletal remains of Kennewick Man, found along the Columbia River in Washington state about 10 years ago, do not contain some basic traits of Native Americans. Its origin remains a mystery. But overall, each race has specific skeletal traits that can be used to recognize it.

Someone on here referred to the Jews as a race. Not true. Judaism is a religion and not a race. There are blonde, blue-eyed Jews with light skin and there are dark-skinned Jews with dark hair. In Somalia and Eritrea, black Jews are common. To lump all Jews together as looking like they're middle eastern is like saying all Catholics have blue eyes and red hair.
Odd how you failed to take this person to task, for such a stereotype, but chastized me for what is a scientific fact.

When I spoke of Napoleon being tall and playing basketball, it was done to make point: that political correctness can, and often does, become ridiculous. Yet, so many people simply nod their heads and adopt it as truth --- afraid to be labeled as racist, homophobic or staid because they don't adopt this radically different claim.
Myself, I'm far more inclined to ask, "Where's your proof? What's your source?"

In the past 10 years I've seen claims that Abraham Lincoln was gay --- without one shred of evidence to support this view, and every bit of evidence to refute it. I've also seen wild claims that Cleopatra was black. This is ludicrous because Cleopatra's ancestry was Greek. Valid, contemporary reports don't mention she was black. I overheard one teacher tell her class that for every McDonald's hamburger they purchased, an acre of Amazon rain forest was razed. How you can possibly link these two acts is beyond me. It's all lies and propaganda, created to further someone's version of what they believe everyone should believe.

And how did Tupac help others? What did he do?
Here's what I saw his music do: convince untold youth that getting an education was for suckers. Being rude, inconsiderate, cruel and demeaning to others made you a man. Women were little more than TV dinners, to be used and thrown away. Thievery is honorable. Taking drugs was cool. The list goes on.
How many young lives he destroyed, how much hope and human potential he crushed, is anyone's guess. He was a thug, in the classic derivation of the word. He cut far too many young lives short.
He got what he sowed. Would that he had got it much earlier; perhaps a few young lives could have been saved.

You can't be a Jew by race? Well tell that to my family (I am part Jewish). It's carried through the mother's side, and Jesus I assure you was a Jew.

I'm pretty sure that there is a difference in the religion and race, but I am also pretty sure that "Jews" can be traced via DNA. Obviously you don't need to worship the same way just because you share DNA, but you can be racially a "Jew".



I tend to agree. Sorry I started bashing Tupac, I'll stop now. Just seeing someone act "offended" and point out someones supposed racism, while using Tupac flashing a gang sign as an avatar kind of pissed me off. (Irony does that to me in some cases).

Ok so here is the problem. Yes, if you watch Bones you see a physical anthropologist referring to certain "racial" traits. The problem here is that there are no races of human beings. In the animal world, it is obvious to see different types of birds. Humans are just not like that. Our DNA is exactly the same, whether you are black, white, yellow, or whatever you are. Jews are a group of people linked by blood, and I am totally offended by what you are saying. A jew can be black, white, whatever. Jews are related to each other. Just like "irish" people call each other Irish. It's just bloodlines and how we have decided to give them names. Really when it comes down to it, morphological characteristics do not in any way validify some different species of human. Which is how you are talking about the differences between blacks and whites, etc. We need to forget about these environmental and morhpological differences. They dont mean a thing except where your ancestors evolved. It's like a second worth of evolution compared to the rest of the world.

i wouldent say black ,but having a very dark tan like a fisherman has out in the sun all day.

even me being french and ukranean ,i get darker then the ace of spades in the summer time.

That is so true. Made in China. LOL!

I certainly don't mean to offend; however..........
If I am not mistaken, you can match DNA from black Ethiopian Jews, to very Caucasian or even middle-eastern appearing Jews. I think that makes them a "race". What's the big deal? It's just people that share a more common ancestry than other people do. It's scientific, not racist to note that two groups of people may share DNA markers another group does not. It just shows a more recent genetic/geographical link.

I also beg to differ on our DNA being "exactly the same" as you said. It's not. It differs person to person (twins may be the exception), family to family, race to race. If I am mistaken, please provide me a reference that says otherwise, so I can get my money back for wasted college credits/books. I may have to sue!

tupacs music has helped millions of people maybe not yours, i know some of his songs has helped me get through very rough times (so theres one) dont speak about what you dont know and saying whats next? napoleon was 6'5 and played basketball IS a stereotype no matter how much BS you try to type up and sound smart about it, you dont know what your talking about when it comes to tupac that is not a "gang" sign.

i am bosnian and love tupac lol
so go figure...
however i do understand people that bash at him some of his songs are rather mhmhmhm "ofensive"
however most of them are great...
DONT ever try to say that "dear mama, keep your head up 1 an 2, To live and die in LA and many many more are GANG songs that turn youth into criminals and murderors... i would say ur taste in music sucks and thats about it... "

lets be real here... ghetto was ghetto LONG before and AFTER tupac...
people killed people in ghetto LONG before Tupac's time and they still do ...

and for the information of those UNAWARE... Tupac wasnt a GANG member... he was Not Blood NOR Crip... he was him... he fought with words and music instead of GUNS like real GANGS do....


P.S. yes he sinned but havent we all ???




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Throwing up a "W" is absolutly THE SAME THING as waving ur AMERICAN FLAG.... all it does is REPRESENT where someone is from in this case "WEST SIDE OF USA" its NOT a GANG sign and never will be

I guess we need to start a Tupac thread somewhere.........as well as a gang history thread.

Coincidently a friend came over yesterday who is Malaysian.... Chinese.... and with her..minor variations of genes are very important... ie Thai...Vietnamese etc. as she has a daughter that is old enough to date... .... anyway she has pointed out that the modern generations coming out of China... seemed to have 'Evolved' already due to their new expanded Westernized diet of more vitamins...dairy and more meat etc...!!!!
She is always going on about her small slanty eyes and flat nose and her height... her problem ,not mine,I think she looks fine... well ... she has noticed that the new generation coming out of China are much taller... the bridges of their noses are higher...and their eyes are rounder and larger!!!!!

I mentioned perhaps there was some plastic surgery involved...being a great fan of those Plastic Surgery make-over shows...but she insists that isn't the case... it's all diet related!!!! What do you think!!!!

That's what I was just thinking. Haha.

Back the point of the thread...

I've taken a lot of anthropology classes, since that was going to be my major. I am very interested in this subject. Here are some of the things I think will make my viewpoint more clear:

(The following quotes are from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race because all the research I did on this in college is at home, otherwise I would used my own paper I wrote. =)

"Since the 1940s, some evolutionary scientists have rejected the view of race according to which any number of finite lists of essential characteristics could be used to determine a like number of races. For example, the convention of categorizing the human population based on human skin colors has been used, but hair colors, eye colors, nose sizes, lip sizes, and heights have not. Many social scientists think common race definitions, or any race definitions pertaining to humans, lack taxonomic rigour and validity. They argue that race definitions are imprecise, arbitrary, derived from custom, have many exceptions, have many gradations, and that the numbers of races observed vary according to the culture examined. They further maintain that "race" as such is best understood as a social construct, and they prefer to conceptualize and analyze human genotypic and phenotypic variation in terms of populations and clines instead."

Here's a GREAT snippet that articulates exactly what I am saying:

"The first to challenge the concept of race on empirical grounds were anthropologists Franz Boas, who demonstrated phenotypic plasticity due to environmental factors (Boas 1912), and Ashley Montagu (1941, 1942), who relied on evidence from genetics. Zoologists Edward O. Wilson and W. Brown then challenged the concept from the perspective of general animal systematics, and further rejected the claim that "races" were equivalent to "subspecies" (Wilson and Brown 1953).

One of the crucial innovations in reconceptualizing genotypic and phenotypic variation was anthropologist C. Loring Brace's observation that such variations, insofar as it is affected by natural selection, migration, or genetic drift, are distributed along geographic gradations; these gradations are called "clines" (Brace 1964). This point called attention to a problem common to phenotypic-based descriptions of races (for example, those based on hair texture and skin color): they ignore a host of other similarities and difference (for example, blood type) that do not correlate highly with the markers for race. Thus, anthropologist Frank Livingstone's conclusion that, since clines cross racial boundaries, "there are no races, only clines" (Livingstone 1962: 279). In 1964, biologists Paul Ehrlich and Holm pointed out cases where two or more clines are distributed discordantly—for example, melanin is distributed in a decreasing pattern from the equator north and south; frequencies for the haplotype for beta-S hemoglobin, on the other hand, radiate out of specific geographical points in Africa (Ehrlich and Holm 1964). As anthropologists Leonard Lieberman and Fatimah Linda Jackson observe, "Discordant patterns of heterogeneity falsify any description of a population as if it were genotypically or even phenotypically homogeneous" (Lieverman and Jackson 1995).

Finally, geneticist Richard Lewontin, observing that 85 percent of human variation occurs within populations, and not between populations, argued that neither "race" nor "subspecies" were appropriate or useful ways to describe populations (Lewontin 1973). Some researchers report the variation between racial groups (measured by Sewall Wright's population structure statistic FST) accounts for as little as 5% of human genetic variation."

"...Because skin color has been under strong selective pressure, similar skin colors can result from convergent adaptation rather than from genetic relatedness. Sub-Saharan Africans, tribal populations from southern India, and Indigenous Australians have similar skin pigmentation, but genetically they are no more similar than are other widely separated groups. Furthermore, in some parts of the world in which people from different regions have mixed extensively, the connection between skin color and ancestry has been substantially weakened (Parra et al. 2004). So, taking them in isolation would appear to get you nowhere. In Brazil, for example, skin color is not closely associated with the percentage of recent African ancestors a person has, as estimated from an analysis of genetic variants differing in frequency among continent groups (Parra et al. 2003)."

"...In the face of this rejection of race by evolutionary scientists, many social scientists have replaced the word race with the word "ethnicity" to refer to self-identifying groups based on beliefs concerning shared culture and history. Moreover, they understood these shared beliefs, even when expressed in the language of race or nation, to be social constructs (Gordon 1964)."

I took an entire class on this subject. I got an A. We were looking at the difference between Race and Ethnicity. The class was equally divided. I believe that ethnicity is a more proper way of referring to where one came from, because, like they are saying in this Wikipedia entry on Race, there is only a 5% difference between all humans, no matter where they have come from. It's really a fascinating subject we've stumbled on. I got 4 credits of upper division for it. LOL!

listen to the song changes and tell me tupac was evil.....and i have no clue how you can possibly think "westiside" is a gang sign, I live where tupac grew up and although he was in gangs as a youth....as MANY of us are...he changed and tried to do good for the world before he went. and while he went. he touched many peoples hearts so please. i beg you. dont speak about this type of life before you have lived it

I figured out a few years ago how to explain a Jew to a non Jew because of the whole race religion debate.

Being a Jew is like being a Native American. The tribes of Judaism. So its both a race and a religion. When people convert to being Jewish they are merely practicing the religion. Madonna for example is not a Jew she just practices their religion.

It would be akin to saying you are going to convert to Cherokee. People would laugh in your face. That's why some of the more conservative members of the religion don't accept converts.


Likewise even if someone no longer believes in the religion they are still a Jew, just like a Native American who gave up the ritual practices of his culture would still be a Native American.


Just remember a Jew is like a Sioux.

Concerning the Scandinavian God Tyr: That you connect the information “woolly hair” with being a black man is because you have misunderstood the translation from Old Norse to English. To have “uldent hår” means that you don’t comb your hair. I have “woolly hair” every morning, but it doesn’t make me a black man.

Normally Tyr is considered as the son of Odin (who was from Asian minor) and the blond Giantess Hyndla, the wife of the Giant Hymir, Tyrs foster father.

Who said he was evil? Are you putting words in someones mouth?

Gangs target minorities, and teach young people NOTHING but negative lessons and stereotypes.

"Westside" is an indication of where he lived, as are many gang names and other symbols. That's how most gangs started, turf, neighborhoods, etc. Westside is an extension of that mindset and culture. How you can not see that is beyond me.

I didn't live the life of a Jew during the Nazi persecution, but still I pity them.
I never lived the life of a Nazi killer (not all Nazi's were killers), yet I still abhor them.

That's why I can pity people that glorify a self destructive way of life, like I pity a drug addict or gang-banger, or how I can condemn fascist killers without living their life.

u MUST have NOT read this whole thread hahha because it was quiet OBVIOUS that SOMONE did say tupac was evil and TONS of people died because of him ...