I was reading another thread when something occurred to me. Isn't praying to God for something the same as making a deal with the devil? In both cases, the individual is offering their soul in return for something. And again, in both cases the individual is relinquishing control of their soul to another power after death.

What's the diff, if any?

Prayer most commonly is infact humbling oneself to god and knowing that you require god's strength and god's strength alone to do any true good in the world. And prayer at it's deepest level is being one with God itself. A soul pure in God is God. But you are right in the sense that they are humbling themselves inorder to recieve temporal rewards. Depending how intensely one prays is a major factor in getting oneself what one is praying for. But this is more petionary prayer and not real prayer. That is my opinion anyway.

God already own the controlling stock of our souls...you can only sell the remaining 49% to Satan.

The trick is trying to get God to sell his share of your soul to you...and then when you control all your soul then you can either sell it to Satan or sell it back to God for a higher price then what you bought it for...or you can sell it on EBay.

Well, if you believe in a soul and it's source being god, one has to wonder what made god, so that it could have the power to make your soul. Then, given that soul sourced itself from god, you have to ask if you could possibly give back what is already "his". And since god said he was the alpha and the omega, selling it to god or the devil, would simply be a ransom of delusion. God is the devil. And prayer is mute, if one accepts a god is omniscient, omnipotent and as such invests individuals future as predetermination. You may feel you have free choice, but for an all knowing entity, time is our illusion. Past, present ,future. Omniscience is removed from that constraint, so what are you praying for save that god change his mind about your destiny?!

Thank you for your replies everyone.

From what I can extrapolate from your posts, there really is no difference. Here is my logic (please feel free to point out any flaws):

God is everything
God created the soul
The soul is God
God created the devil
The devil is God
Therefore, there is no difference if one offers their soul to either God or the devil.

BTW, for the sake of this discussion, I use the most crude and simplistic definition for the word "devil" i.e, the antithesis of God.

I think there is a difference, when you ask Satan for things you have to pay him with your soul...when you pray to God he just gives you things(sometimes). I don't think you can sell your soul to God...because he already has it.

The act of prayer has little (if anything) to do with offering God something in exchange for his services. Sometimes I fall into the trap of offering God something (eg, "God, if you can do this for my, I will read the Bible twice as often for the next month" - maybe nothing so crude and simple as that, but you get the idea). I think all Christians at some point fall into that trap. The fact is that this is an unbiblical principle. You cannot buy God's favour, and God cannot be blackmailed into doing something for you. In the Bible, prayer is simply talking to God, and yes, you can ask for something, but that doesn't mean you're "selling your soul" to God. To use an analogy, imagine you are a child and you ask your father or mother for an Xbox360 game. Asking them for it doesn't imply taht you're selling your soul to them, does it. It's an acknowledgement that they have the means to provide you with something you want and you are asking them for it. There is no guarantee that they will get that game for you (unless your parents get you everything you ask for, in which case all power to you, o spoilt ones), but you know what I mean.

More generally though, speaking from a Chrsitian perspective of God, it's not that we "sell our souls" to God, but that God purchased us (the sale goes the other way, if anything) and those who follow God freely give not just our souls but our entire beings over to God out of Love.

Ultimately, you are right here. If the soul at it's core is God then how can it sell it's soul? What exists separate from God to be able to be devoid of God? God is EVERYTHING INCLUDING NOTHING. It is paradoxical I know. All I can do is have faith.

Why is it people pray more when they want something? I think they are totally missing the point.

If this is so, then apparently I have no control over my soul whatsoever. Whether I choose to follow God through prayer and devotion, or abandon and reject Him (say by placing my faith in the power of money for example), the outcome of my existence will be the same. I shall forever be a part of God, no matter how I choose to live my life.

This raises another question: If I truly have no control of my soul, then what is the point of faith? If I truly am a part of God, then my actions in life bare no meaning, except to the laws of man. After all, I won't I still become one with God after death?

Well think of it. There is no difference between god and your soul. You have the ultimate freewill. God is God's own master. You need faith to help you come to actual conscious full realization that yu are God and not some mere "I" consciousness with limitations. Death doesn't mean union with God(or the realization that you are god) hard spiritual practice it requires. I highly recommend that you google ramana maharshi. He was an enlightened soul who helped people with this sort of thing. I can only read and have faith. But look him up and see for yourself. I'd be very much curious to see what you think of him.

no no no.....

your outcome will not be the same...specially if you reject, or abandon him.you dont sell your soul to god he is the giver he's the one who gave you your soul .its dependent upon you and what you do with it...pray is fellowship with god which isnt begging but humbling seeking god...you gain eternal life if you seek god...you are not a part of god untill youve actually became a partaker..asking god to come into your heart...you are not god nor will you become god you will be you but with the spirit of god...but not God... no god...your outcome in life or after death will not be the same...youll either go to heaven or hell nowhere inbetween and still not be a god but you..youll always be you...even in eternity..and yes you can choose the outcome of your soul....god did gave you freewill to choose him or not...so its your choice..

In my opinion I've never always gotten what I've wanted but I've always gotten what I needed. That is how I think God works with prayer and blessings. If you pray for a million dollars I dont believe you'll get it because it is a want instead of a need.

Look over your life experinces to this date both good and bad, trivial and big. Look over these and you will see how many blessings you were given from the simplicity of a safe drive home to that job you got when you were out of one. Look at all these and Tell me even without prayer that God is not allways looking out for us.

I think that if people started appreciating everything they've received instead of wanting more or better they would realize how blessed they truly are. Because even though there are people with more there are allways those will way less who would love to have what you have in your life.

You saying that reminded me of when I was about 9 or 10 years old. Our teacher at school was discussing sport, winning, losing etc etc. One kid put up his hand and said "If I were in the Olympics and wanted to win, I would just pray", the teacher's reply was "If you pray to ask to win, you are, in effect, praying for the other people to lose and I don't think you can do that".

That always stuck with me and I often look at sportsmen and women on TV, watching them in finals of sports events, kissing their crucifixes and praying for that win.

It does seem that lots of people's prayers are often selfish and to their own ends and I agree I think they (and many a time, me) have indeed missed the point.

Ah, yes. My high school always had prayers before games (even after it wasn't necessary legal to do so) asking god for them to win. It always struck me as wrong somehow. They were asking that god favor them over the other team and that the other team specifically lose the game, which probably goes against that "do unto others" thing, and a whole lot of points of decency. But the other team was asking god to let them win too. So I kept imagining god sitting up on his fluffy clouds looking down going, "Gee, the Hornets look really good this year, but I gotta vote for the Panthers. They have cooler uniforms."

I have to say that I disagree. I think that in praying to win, you are actually asking to play to the best of your abilities, not to downplay the oppositions skills. That being said, if your pray that your opposition falls in the fountain and sprains their leg so as to not have to play them, thats wrong.

No, they actively prayed for the other team to lose. None of this "play to the best of our abilities." They wanted total win, prayed for the other team to never score a point, and they thought god favored them above all others. And most of the other teams did the same. It was like that all over the area.

I had no problem with "Dear god, let the game be good, no players get hurt, etc etc" but when I heard week after week "Dear Merciful God in Heaven, let our boys control the field. Let their enemies never encroach on our territory, let them stumble and fail and give us the power to destroy them. Amen." then I have a problem. I don't mind people wishing that they win the game, but I just can't get behind praying to a deity that both sides follow to favor one over the other. It's a game; it's about skill, ability, and a bit of luck. God should be there for the important things, not a high school football game.

Thanks again to everyone who replied. You've all given me something to think about.



Once again I'm having a problem distinguishing between what's considered selfish and what isn't. I hope I can state my point clearly.

If one were to pray for the salvation of their soul (in other words, to be one with God in the afterlife), isn't that, in fact, praying for selfish means?

For example:
I want to be in the Kingdom of God, therefore, I shall pray and offer my devotion so that I can enter into heaven.

If the intentions were good, wouldn't the following be the same?
I want the best for my family (housing, education, health care, etc.), therefore, I shall pray for a raise (to find a better job, to win the lotto, etc.) so that I can use the money for what they need.

I understand those were crude examples, but in both cases, the person doing the praying is still asking for something for his/her own benefit. Also, in neither example was the person praying for anything negative to happen to anyone else.

Wouldn't both examples show that the person praying is doing so for selfish means? And if not, why?