You know how you see all of these arcaic and what could be considered pagan items around the internet that involve magic?

If you read or practice any of that stuff, does that mean you're turning away from GOD?


I believe in GOD, but also don't want to be closed minded to other things going on in the world. I also don't want to have to pay for my curiosity in the next life.

Opinions?

Everything in this world is magic, seen and unseen, rituals and sleep, pure sex and direct connection with the energy flow, words, numbers, and everything abstract.

You probably won't make any "Christians" happy, but magic is part of many religions.

Of course you can! Magic and god are not incompatible. But a closed minded christian belief that excludes all forms of magic and magic is. As long as you keep loving that's all that matters.

so does that mean that you don't think it would be a conflict to practice some of these things?


Also, can someone give me their take on meditation like this?

http://www.higherbalance.com/

Meditate!@! Of course it wouldn't be in conflict to do these things, meditation if anything will only help you understand god on a more personal level. The bible basicly outlines meditation itself when it says: Be still and know that I am God. Also practice magik and as much as you like as long as it doesn't interfere with you loving god and your neighbour.

If you wanna look someone up who knows alot about God and one's relationship to it I suggest you google Ramana Maharshi. He is one of the greatest christians the world has ever seen, though most christians I know and you know would completely disagree. I highly recommend you looking him up!

thanks, bnw, I'll do that!

Always be very careful what you put into your mind because in many cases, they are (eventually) harmful (even with all the "good" intentions attached to them) and they are very hard to eliminate from your system. Then again, one has to start somewhere. But if you feel sincerity in your heart (at all times during your pilgrimage), then surely, that should account for something, in the long run.

Walking on water, turning water into wine, curing the ill, etc. are all basically magic.

Jesus was a 10th level wizard with a robe that gave +1 to all fire magics and resisted lightning magics by one point.

He also had Sandles of Hastening that gave him a +2 stamina boost when toggled.

wlynch72,

First of all, I don't believe either exists. But it's a common belief among most fundamentalist Christians that their god has ultimate control over all things. If that's the case, then how can magic (which he must of had a hand in creating) be against him? Aren't most people who call upon these forces channeling them from the same source he is? Wouldn't that bring them closer to their god?

Many paths use it and believe in God, or a Goddess or even both. I have a friend whose parents are pastors. When another mutual friend of ours started attending church they drilled it into his head that meditation was opening yourself up to demonic possession, yet it is exactly what they do when they put their hands together(Meditate I mean). I've since showed my buddy some neat things about meditation, but all this aside. If you think about it there can be only one creator (Not all people thing a God or Goddess as the creator), no matter what you do do what feels right to you. Magick is just good intention sent for a positive purpose (In most cases). I thought I had a point but can't remember it. It's late =)

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that it is impossible to worship (the Christian) God and also practice magick at the same time. In dealing with magic (spells, incantations, etc) what's basically happening is that you are trying to manipulate supernatural forces for your own desires. So what's wrong with this? Well, from a Christian perspective, God has said we should rely on him in all things. Prayer is the Christian version of magic, and prayer is most powerful. So when a Christian turns to other spiritual powers to get what they want, they are essentially saying "God, you cannot provide me with what I want/need, so I'm going to seek out other avenues". Thus one of the integral points of the Christian God (reliance upon God alone) has been subverted, in seeking other spiritual guidance other than God.

That said, if you are Christian, it's not my place to force you to take what I say to heart. If you want to believe other than what I've said, by all means. I can only tell you what the Bible says, and if you claim to be Christian it's up to you to choose whether what I say about teh Bible is right or whether it does not apply to you. Note that it is not wrong to study magic. A common mistake I think many Christians make is that they don't try to understand something like magic. They simply say "oh god, magic - evil", and run in the opposite direction. Well, that just puts a dampener on new friendships ("WHAT - MAGIC? AHHHHHHH, GET AWAY FROM ME SATAN"). My opinion is that study is always good. Never feel that you can't learn about things like magic. Through learning comes knowledge and through knowledge comes understanding, and through understanding comes the core to build relationships with people.

If you are not CHristian, by all means, go ahead and practice magic. I have no doubt that it works, having seen it work and dabbled in it in my earlier (pre-Christian) days. I am positive that there are spiritual entities out there that can influence the physical world. I'm not going to stop anyone doing what they wish, and I'm not going to call magic (or those who practice it) "evil".

To conclude, I believe that worship of the Christian God is incompatable with practicing magic. I believe that the power of prayer is mighty and can work just as well as any spell. To use magic shows that you do not rely on God but want to find other means of reaching your desired result. Of course, this only applies to those professing to be Christian.

Regards, PA

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. -Exodus 22:18

I hope you have fun burning in hell.

The bible tells you Magic is Real . When moses went to Eygpt the magicians there could almost keep up with him in power .
Simon Magnus in the New Testament could perform magic .

Magic or real magic is just recieving power from the dark side or from Satan and the Evil Spirits that follow him .Its real power the false prophet in the future will have extreem power to do miricles that will come from Satan.

What this world keeps Forgetting is its not only the dark side that has power . A real Man of God that is Truely living a Rightous life could have extreem power given to him .

I suspect Eligah Could take On Any From the Dark Side and Win . He actually Chalenged 400 Priest of Bail at one Time and made fools out of them . Then asked for them to be Killed .

The prayers of a Rightous Man availeth Much . in other words God almighty will listen to a man than is indeed rightous and give them extreem power .

So i Guess if you want power you could dabble with the dark side (which most do) or you could persue life as a man or Woman of God . If you did ever become a real person of God .who was rightous , who was cappable of following the spirit and not the flesh . One who Could Sacrifice what ever To please God . Nothing from the Dark Side Could Compete with you in Power .

Most shows of Power in christian churches now are either complete fake or coming from the dark side ,Things like penticostalism are not from God . Its just a show of Power from the Dark side To help Keep some decieved . Not many real men of God around on this earth with power now days . I guess the world is so full of iniquity and easy life that men of God are going to their potential any more .


God Can Dish the Power out Too But it will Not Be refered to As Magic .

Simon Magnus the Sorcerer was Jelous of The Power the Men of God Had he actually tried to buy it . And i suspect he Was pretty Good at Black Magic .

If you are from God don't seek the Dark side for Power thats a Insult To the Mighty God Of ISREAL!

Magic is the pratice of a science not yet considered a science.

Almost everything we do every day would seem like magic to those who lived 1,000 years ago.

I think God hopes we continue to evolve.

When a Christan minister does a healing or says a prayer it is not unlike what I do with a spell. If I am doing a healing I call to a Goddess like Brigit to assist me. The minister calls to his God to do the same thing. "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" is like saying "I call to the Shining Ones, The Ancestors, and the Noble Kindred. You're just using different Gods.

Nova magic is only evil if it is used by the partitioner to do evil with it. Magic its self is a tool neither evil or good. It is like a gun, only the person holding the gun is good or evil. The gun is just a tool whether to put meat on the table or to kill you neighbor is up to who holds it.

Depends on which God you serve. According to the Bible Witchcraft is a sin. It is warned against. However, I practice with my chakra, use of chakra is not a sin, and I find it that it can bring you closer to God....if you wanna know more about PM me.....


EDIT: Read the thread and I wanted to add something. Magic is very real, the Bible would not warn against something that does not exist.

og course you can, there are many groups who believe in God and practice magick, but i think the rules on what types of magick you can study will be a little stricter if you are following God

double post

dlv/Madmanfred - Your responses look like what I want to hear.Since I'm usually wrong about these things, I assume that this is not the path I should follow. I appreciate your responses because they make seem very logical to me.

P Android - I also agree that Christianity can't be compatible with, well, any othr type of belief, based on the fact that if you rely on God as it says in the Bible, then you can't do any else. I suppose it's something like telling my girlfriend I would be mad if she went to another guy for something. She's telling me I can't do enough in our relationship to keep her from going outside of it for her desires.
But what if I don't WANT to give her something that she really wants? She goes outside of the relationship, perhaps, and gets it anyway. Then I find out, get angry, and we break up. hmmm...

Kratos - I don't think practicing magick makes you a Witch. I believe in my heart that you can be a witch without practicing magick, just like you can be a Ni**er without being black.

Nova Scotia - I don't challenge or seek to challenge Gods power. I'm only trying to being open minded about the subject, but what you say sounds much like what my mother, grand mother, great grand mother, aunt or various other relatives would say.

And thank you all others for your responses.

Ultimately, I think that no source of magic (that I know of) can rightfully make the claim that they created:

The Universe/ Earth
Mankind/ Animals
Everything Else

Some may make the claim, but the price for being wrong is AWFULLY high. Does that concern any of you? That if you're wrong about your choices of magic, God(the Christian one) wouldn't be open for debate? If you're not Christian, then I guess it doesn't matter. You'll play judgement day by ear.

I guess trying to wield some type of power in front of the Arch Angel Michael might be good for that Last laugh before you burn eternally, but not much else.


Oh well, thank you all for your input, I'll be coming to some conclusion shortly, but I guess that I've basically made up my mind...

Is that a racist comment? That statement combined with your name implies quite a bit.

sorry double post.

Vicera Cinegras- Whats a chakra?

Satans Adherent - You know, nothing personal, but I can't in Good Faith accept your opinion with the nagging feeling that your words may have an alterior motive.

VC will do if you had trouble typing that. Chakra is natural spiritual eneryg that all humans have. Some people have their chakras opened some don't. Chakra is merely your natural physical energy.

I don't mean to come across as racist. First of all, I'm black. Second that's my name. As in the guy that gave some famous speech. Google "Willie Lynch" and you see it. 72 is my year of birth. I'm sure you didn't need to know all of that, but I've had my name my whole life. It never occured to me that someone would take that comment and pair it with my name to come up with that assumption.

Although, it does make sense.

Anyway, whats a chakra?

Wat alterior motive would i have? i am just giving my opinions, i am not christian and i do study many forms of magick, all i said was that if you ARE christian and study magick you probably wont be able to study voodoo, or witchcraft, but some of the rituals of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn would work, since they call upon the Christian God. There is no other motive, just my opinion, you dont have to listen to it, but i have a feeling the reason you cant take it is because of my name and that kinda bugs me a little bit.

It's true that I'm biased based on your name. It gives the impression that while you may be speaking the truth, there may be something else I should know on the subject.
But you have to expect some type of preconcieved notions if you deal with people who are religious, with the name of Satan in your screen name. What's a person going to think?

Iunderstand you're giving your opinion and it is appreciated. Any information from any source is appreciated. If all information came from one direction, then it becomes useless. Like looking at a diamond from one angle. You need to see it from all sides.

yeah i understand, im used to stuff like that, no hard feelings

Oh sorry for the mix up.

Chakra is energy. There simply put. When you take a walk you use Chakra, when you blink your eyes use chakra to move your eyelids. However, there are more forms of manipulating the Chakra, like finding the energy within you and awakening it to be used for your desires. It's a blessing I feel.

Ooooh dear, boy did I ever go through this same thought process myself. I was raised to be Christian, until I was 13 and started looking into other religions on my own and found paganism. Just because you may be attracted to a pagan tradition doesn't mean you have to fully rid God out of your life. In my personal opinion, I think all Gods of every religion exsist and they all hear our prayers.

The only advice I can give you (sorry if you wasn't asking for any lol), just do what you feel comfortable with. You have your whole life ahead of you to decide which religion or none for that matter, is right for you.

If I ran around doing what made me feel comfortable, well...

I'd rather do what's right than do what makes me comfortable. It seems like the 2 are hardly ever the same. But I'm not going to be miserable if I can be happy AND right.

The answer to this topic is yes... It's called High Magic, and its a common practice. Anyone who says you can't is just close minded to other systems of beleif.

Why not? I do. Angel magic, Kabbalah, the book of the angel Raziel, etc. Did you know magic was taught to the Egyptians, Hebrews and other early races by angels? Magic used to be practiced by Rabbis in past history until one used it entirely in the wrong way, and I being a mix of both Catholicism and Judaism don't have a problem with it.

what you learn from your mother is all good the problem comes when you forget that what is your father.

The BIble does state not to dwell in magic. But is that a reason to ignore and persecute those who do? In my opinion no. Like Paranoid Android stated knowlege is power. I have studied plenty about diffrent religions, beliefs, and sects including magic based ones. I believe that it is human logic to fear the unkown, and most act rash to what they do not understand. My Christian beliefs tell me not to use or dwell in magic. But that doesn't make me ignorant to the fact that people do follow the way of such beliefs and they as people have the right to follow and believe what they want, just like me with my beliefs. I have discussed plenty of topics with people of other religions and beliefs and have allways accepted them for who they are and showed them the utmost respect. Some didn't show me the same respect but in my mind that is OK because that is what they chose to do. So yes I do believe you can study different beliefs such as magic. But I also believe from my aspect that to follow and use magic that you are going against God because he states not to.

Wait a minute, what are you saying? Do you practice magic? Or are you saying It's OK, but you don't because you think it goes against God, which is how I feel?

i think hes saying that for some people studying magic is ok, but he thinks its wrong and goes against god

To me that sounds like a vegetarian saying it's OK to eat meat, but they don't eat meat.

erm Pagan........comon now

There should be an age limit or at least an iq test by admin before being allowed to join...........

A spelling test wouldn't hurt either

Yes I do believe it goes against God. But I ment study is in learn about it not follow it.

Exactly. Goes with my non-judgemental philosophy. I think its wrong for me and my beliefs but not for other people. I have respect for people who follow other beliefs because like me they have the right to believe what they want. My opinion on magic use is simply from my point of view as a Christian.

wylynch72 If you want to see power just get undecieved . Get Baptised (make sure its a real man of God that lays his hands on you after baptism) and Recieve the Holy Spirit . Obey God and Repent daily . (All 10 Commandments ,don't forget the 4th) Then After You get things Going right .

Then Tell Your Holy Father You Want Power , Great Power , (talk to him every day ,become his Friend) . to make the magic of the Dark Side Look like A joke .

You just Got to work a little harder then they do, but your reward will be so much greater .

But with this Power you are also recieving eternal life as a King or Priest for eternity .

With the power from the Dark Side you are headed for eternal death and shame .


But also remember real men of God sometimes have to suffer , and the beast that will rise soon will make war on the saints and overcome them . Even the 2 Witnesses of God will be killed and the whole earth will hate them .

But whats the big deal if you do have to suffer as a child of God ,your going where the rest are not going very soon . the 2 witnesses will only be dead 3.5 days ,then alive for eternity .

Very soon real Saints will recieve their prize I would not be any thing but if it was me .

Just remember the patience of the saints ,don't settle for any thing else . Get it Right . And I suspect it will be you That stands at your ancesters graves when they awake to show them the way .

I don't know if you realize it but were talking about real life not Star Wars. You keep referring to the darkside, like other religions are really dark or something.
Christianity is about the darkest religion around in its most common forms, along with its off shoot branch of satanism, the reason their is no real magic in those two Christian beliefs is that they are dictatorship, what's darker and grimmer than that? This thread pleases me, just to know that people out there, Christians, are throwing off the shackles of the church and realizing that each and every one of us has real power inside and we need no church or priest to do "gods" work, because we have the power to make this world a better place, heal the sick and change the world as long as we don't let others tell us how to worship our chosen paths. If you are Christian, then you should realize that god must have made us this way, nothing evil about it.
You can believe this world is just a temporary thing, but that way of thought has put us where we all now, the earth is dying, our mother is dying, by believing this world doesn't mater, teaching your children that this place doesn't matter, also teaches that all the damage done to this world doesn't matter. If your god didn't love this place he wouldn't have put us, his children here, and if he gave us the capacity to destroy his creation, then he also gave us the capacity to heal and preserve it. Believe in the power of god, believe perhaps it can flow through you toward an end desired, and that is magic.
No one but the church has said that god and the devil are dictators, but if you have a personal relationship with either of these higher powers then you probably know thats not true. Break free and worship how feels right to each of you, if you feel god has given you the ability to use magic then use it, use it to do his work and make the world a better place for your own children regardless of how any church has chosen to interpret his will, if you know your god, and have a relationship with him then you should know in your heart what is right and acceptable.

My only advice to everyone on this board, and my two cents in this topic; don't let fear dictate what you do. Fear has caused many problems in todays world, and through out history. Instead, let logic, reasoning, and ethics dictate what you do.

For example, if you practice magic, and you're not hurting anyone, I see no harm. But on the reverse, if you believe in a religion, and persecute those around you, I'd say you're off track.

Peace

Atheist here, so take it for what it's worth, but I would ask why couldn't you practice magic as a theist!? The means in which the bible was written, god speaking to select individuals directly or inspiring them, would have been a bit of magic of it's kind, in it's day. Not to mention Solomon and other magical references, or the "Magi" that sought out christ. Also, I Yahoo'd just for the topic and found this: http://www.religioustolerance.org/divin_bibl.htm

I became aware of a christian magic forum in that search as well. Perhaps that would be a more focused environment in which to make your inquiries, with like minded individuals. http://www.esotericchristian.com/forum/

My son loves your dancing kitty Goddess!

Awww, thanks . I found her at jurko.net.

Thanks for the forum. I'm going to check it out now...

Not a bad site!