Hi everyone. I am really getting into the christian mystics. They have opened my eyes so much from what i personally think is a narrow orthodox view on the bible and spirituality in general. As you know I have a poll on Meister Eckhart and now Im doing one on St. John of the Cross. He comes across like a buddhist in many repsects. Anyway I will post some of his spiritual teachings and let you see for yourself! But man I didn't even know such great christian saints exist and most of my christian friends think these so called christian mystics were either lunatics or blasphemers! I think many of them are more clarifying on christianity than christ himself!@! That is just my opinion anyway. Anyway I hope you like.

The soul is in itself a most lovely and perfect image of God. --St. John of the Cross

One of the greatest favours bestowed on the soul transiently in this life is to enable it to see so distinctly and to feel so profoundly that it cannot comprehend God at all. These souls are herein somewhat like the saints in heaven, where they who know Him most perfectly percieve most clearly that He is infinitely incomprehensible; for those who have the less clear vision do not percieve so clearly as do these others how greatly He transcends their vision. ---St. John of the Cross

The Abbot (Abbot John Chapman is apparently referring to Abbot Marmion) says St. John of the Cross is like a sponge full of Christianity. You can squeeze it all out, and the full mystical theory remains. Consequently for fifteen years or so I hated St John of the Cross and called him a Buddhist. I loved St Teresa and read her over and over again. She is first a Christian, only secondarily a mystic. Then I found I had wasted fifteen years, so far as prayer was concerned.

The worth of love does not consist in high feelings, but in detachment, in patience under all trials for the sake of God whom we love. ---St John of the Cross

It is plain that distinct object whatever that pleases the will can be God; and, for that reason, if the will is to be united with Him, it must empty itself, cast away every disorderly affection of the desire, every satisfaction it may distinctly have, high and low, temporal and spiritual, so that, purified and cleansed from all unruly satisfactions, joys and desires, it may be wholly occupied, with all its affections, in loving God. For if the will can in any way comprehend God and be united with Him, it cannot be through any capacity of the desire, but only by love; and as all the delight, sweetness and joy, of which the will is sensible,is not love, it follows that none of these pleasing impressions can be the adequate means of uniting the will to God. These adequate means consist in an act of the will. And because an act that the will is quite distinct from feeling, it is by an act that the will is united with God and rests in Him; that act is love. This union is never wrought by feeling or exertion of the desire; for these remain in the soul as aims and ends. It is only as motives of love that feelings can be of service, if the will isbent on going onwards, and for nothing else....
He, then, is very unwise who, when sweetness and spiritual delight fail him, thinks for that reason that God has abandoned him; and when he finds them again, rejoices and is glad, thinking that he has in that way come to possess God.
More unwise still is he who goes about seeking for sweetness in God, rejoices in it, and dwells upon it; for in doing so he is not seeking after God with the will grounded in the emptiness of faith and charity, but only in spiritual sweetness and delight, which is a created thing, following herein in his own and fond pleasure.....It is impossible for the will to attain to the sweetness and bliss of the divine union otherwise than in detachment, in refusing to the desire every pleasure in the things of heaven and earth. ---St John of the Cross

When the will, the moment it feels any joy in sensible things rises upwards in that joy to God, and when sensible things move it to pray, it should not neglect them, it should make use of them for so holy an excerise; because sensible things, in these conditions, subserve the end for which God created them, namely to be occasions for making Him better known and loved. ---St John of the Cross

He who is not conscious of liberty of spirit among the things of sense and sweetness--things which should serve as motives to prayer---and whose will rests and feeds upon them, ought to abstain from the use of them; for to him they are a hindrance on the road to God. ---St John of the Cross

The fitting disposition for union with God is not that the soul should understand, feel, taste or imagine anything on the subject of the nature of God, or any other thing whatever, but should remain in that pureness and love which is perfect resignation and complete detachment from all things for God alone. ---St John of the Cross

Disquietude is always vanity, because it serves no good. Yes even if the whole world were thrown into confusion and all things in it, disquietude on that account would be vanity. --St John of the Cross

The soul is attracted to anything, however much good there may be in it, will not arrive at the liberty of divine union. For whether it be a strong wire rope or a slender delicate thread that holds the bird, it matters not, if it really holds it fast; for, until the cord be broken, the bird cannot fly. So the soul, held by the bonds of human affections, however slight they may be, cannot, while they last, make its way to God. ---St. John of the Cross

The goods of God, which are beyond all measure, can only be contained in an empty and solitary heart. ---St. John of the Cross

All that the imagination can imagine and the reason conceive and understand in this life is not, and cannot be, a proximate means of union with God. --St. John of the Cross

God being, as He is, inaccessible, do not rest in the consideration of objects perceptible to the senses and comprehended by the understanding. This is to be content with what is less than God; so doing, you will destroy the energy of the soul, which is necessary for walking with Him. ---St. John of the Cross

All our goodness is a loan; God is the owner. God works and his work is God. --St. John of the Cross

The Father uttered one Word; that Word is His Son, and he utters Him for ever in everlasting silence; and in silence the soul has to hear it. ---St. John of the Cross

The imperfect destroy true devotion, because they seek sensible sweetness in prayer. ---St John of the Cross

The fly that touches honey cannot use its wings; so the soul that clings to spiritual sweetness ruins its freedom and hinders contemplation.---St John of the Cross

He who interrupts the course of his spiritual exercises and prayer is like a man who allows a bird to escape from his hand; he can hardly catch it again. ---St John of the Cross

God does not reserve such a lofty vocation (that of mystical contemplation) to certain souls only; on the contrary, He is willing that all should embrace it. But He finds few who permit Him to work such sublime things for them. There are many who, when He sends them trials, shrink from the labour and refuse to bear with the dryness and mortification, instead of submitting, as they must, with perfect patience. ---St. John of the Cross

I voted that he was not a heretic. Here is a link on the guy.

http://www.ccel.org/search?category=books&...hn+of+the+Cross

I voted non-heretic too. I have respect for the man and his trails and walk with God. But still in my view he was just a man. In my opinion title gives one no higher court in the eyes of the Father. We are all equally loved and cared for in the eyes of God. From the Saints to the demons. Still I give credit and respect were it is due and with St. John I am given a much more higher value in both when it comes to Catholic priests of that time. Especially in a time when most were egotistical and were heretics themselves.

Thank you my friend for your input and vote. Much appreciated. You are a credit to our religion.

Thank you for the compliment, as are you.

I thought that was great-
We forget sometimes those men and women from the bible were just like us, and us like them. They had their fair share of difficult times, challenges, persecution, sufferering, felt pain/joy, and cried tears the same as we do.
If we all pay a enough attention to those brothers and sisters of the bible, we can see the very people we hold close to our hearts in at least one of them. For example, my father always reminded me of Peter. Amazing how people really don't change, but only the times, and the circumstances...... thought I would share...

John is a far-- far cry from a "heretic."

thank you for your input. It's much appreciated. Anything to say about the St. John of the Cross's writings??

Actually, I can't seem to understand where the whole idea is that he is expressing heresy!!
God is first, and God is last. He is the beginning, and the end. God is everything...John is explaining the value of this oneness thru spirit, with spirit b/t the person and God.. that seems to be idea for the most part.... Where is John placing any blaspemy tones here in these particular writings....?

Because he claims we can reach the same level of god consciousness as jesus.

Yes, and I still agree. We strive to be like Jesus, (or so I thought as the point of be a Christian.) So, in order to live, or walk as Christ did, we have to strive to be on the same level.... not that it could be achieved per se, but walk as he did, to think as he did, make decisions in our lives that he would have made in the same, or deny temptations as he did... lead as he did, love as he did, teach as he did, accept, etc., daily, nightly, consistant... I agree with John... To say "we walk in Christ" is to say the same thing -- . John also emphasized keeping that thought process or connection spiritually with God, and expressed importance of no interruptions... the importance of that would be crucial to achieve such level. Not everyone has the capacity, but I believe it can be achieved. Not in the same as to be Christ, there was only one. But to achieve his level of spiritualism I believe it can be. The holy spirit is one.

Its like the time when Jesus came to his deciples on the boat by walking on water. They took it as a miracle and praised him. And in return he told them to come out on the water and join him. Only Peter came out on the water while the others doubted their ablility to walk on the water. Peter got within a arms reach of Jesus and looked down on the violent water raging at his feet. Fear and doubt filled his mind and he sank like a rock. Jesus pulled him up and told him that he had just as much power from God as did Jesus did himself until he doubted that power and lost it. The point Christ was trying to make was that through him all have great power given to us from God. When you doubt it or try to rationalize it we are diminishing that power and you shall lose it.