In Judeo/Christian doctrine there is the belief of a bodily resurrection. Yet there is the concept that upon death your spirit goes on as some believe to a heaven or hell and perhaps a place called purgatory. If this is the case then what point does the resurrection serve? If those long dead have spiritually been somewhere else for thousands of years and have gotten along fine without a body, then why bother to bring this body up from the grave at some future point. Any thoughts???

I don't really get your line of questionning. Are you asking why it takes so long for some souls to be reincarnated, or why reincarnation exists at all? Or are you confused by the "Heaven and Hell" theory of the afterlife versus the reincarnation? And where does the "why bother to bring this body up from the grave at some future point" come up?

Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but I really don't understand what you're asking.

This mortal must put on immortality

When ? AT THE LAST TRUMP

Last trump? Rev 11 seventh angel sounded .


Not much thought in death though so i guess it would be the next moment of thought .

Probably to serve as a rebirth- experience simular to like being reborn every morning from a good or bad night's sleep. With life eternal, a new life [bodily] form must be like trying to -slowly- enjoy that last call for booze at the bar before you come down to your original self.

Never mentioned reincarnation at all. But let me ask in another way. This is probably a question that someone privy to Judeo/Christian religion would be interested in. "The point being if when we die supposedly our spirits live on in another place Right? Maybe? If that is true, then what purpose would the resurrection be? Or is it that the dead remain dead until that resurrection and do not immediately experience life after death?

Revelation refers to a ressurection, remember the book of revelation is a gnostic book and includes some hints of reincarnation. Most of which have been edited or slurred by either translation or perhaps even just what version of bible you own. In the end its all just some crazy dream john had, he thought it was important and wrote it down in a letter and sent it to each of the seven churches.

Purgatory and all this other crap was just created for the wealth and power of the church.

If you wont put a gold coin in our box your relatives wont be able to leave purgatory and go off to heaven.

Think I'm kidding? Perhaps its just a sick joke? Nope the church actually pulled this off, along with alot of other crap, including voting reincarnation out.

The Book of Revelation Teaches Reincarnation

Reincarnation and Christianity

Purgatory is still an afterlife...heaven would be the after afterlife.

umm.....

they're both just "afterlife" because after afterlife would be... um something after afterlife. ...ya.... that's it...ya...

Unfortunately, the only thing that we know for sure is, that when you 'die'... your body starts to break down and decay, recycled. Any more added to that is just speculation.

Your statement here is an assumption equal to whether heaven exists or not.

People find all kinds of proof for all kinds of things.

Even though most people are afraid to learn, some things are so big that evidence for it is impossible to miss. A good example would be, reincarnation and children, or hypnotic regression therapy; both proof for reincarnation.

Although most proof is from within, and can only be tested or scrutinized by the individual observer. It can also be blindly dismissed or accepted.

I never said anything about heaven, I only stated what is at least known for sure.
This is true, but it shouldn't only be subjective proof.

I'm not afraid to learn, quite the opposite. The example you stated is not proof of reincarnation per se, but only of some type of phenomenon. This could also be associated with DNA, evolution at work... files so to speak being transfered from generation to generation. DNA evolves due to everything experienced, it would not surprise me that prior experiences could be embedded in someone else and that that person could have a type of sensation. Perhaps this is why deja vu and things of that nature occur? That why I said what I said, much is unknown.. with the exception of death. The body(compound) we knew to exist, breaks down.

Interesting. But I do not find John's dream or vision any crazier that some of the stuff reprted by Ezekiel's vision. It seems to me that the Idea of a resurrection gave notion to the idea that the dead remian dead until the resurrection. That life ceased until then. No heaven, no hell, no purgatory.

didn't the immortal soul doctrine come into christianity by early church fathers Idealiseing Greek philosphers Like Plato?

You know Paul never beleaved in a imortal Soul you see that in 1st corinthians 15 .

Soul is kind of a mistranslation it should be Life

Hell is a miss translation in most cases too It should be Holding Place


When king david asked God not to leave his Sould in Hell he was asking him not to leave his life in the grave .

What would Kind David one of Gods favorite men be doing in Hell ?

Agreed! The majority of the usages of the word hell do indeed simply mean "the grave". The Gehenna is another matter all together that will be in the future according to scripture.

EXACTLY!!! Nothing more nothing less. The Scriptures say that when one dies, they go to sleep and are aware of nothing. Don't know who started the Heaven, Hell, Purgatory thing (don't really care), but that is just a bunch of malarky and has NO Scriptual basis.

I feel as though you didnt understand my statement, I didn't say you said anything about heaven, I merely pointed out how large of an assumption you made with that statement, and said it was equivalent to the assumption of heavens existence, or lack there of.

sub·jec·tive /səbˈdʒɛktɪv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suhb-jek-tiv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective).
2. pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.
3. placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric.
4. Philosophy. relating to or of the nature of an object as it is known in the mind as distinct from a thing in itself.

It wasnt Subjective, the proof that I posted was concrete, and could quite easily be subjected to scientific scrutiny. (and it is) Check out Dr Ian Stevenson's work, hes dead now but he spent a lot of time looking for proof for reincarnation all over the world, I've learned alot about reincarnation from reading some books from/about Dr Stevenson.


"not proof per se," haha do you even know what proof is?

proof /pruf/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[proof] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2. anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3. the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.


one fatal error, Not all cases of reincarnation deal with related peoples. In one instance a person in china may be reincarnated in america, within a matter of years after death, which would not give enough time for the DNA to make its way from the chinese person to the black or white person in america. Infact most cases of reincarnation do not envolve people who are genetically related. Some do though, and that is thought to be because the soul of the reincarnated wants to continue their experiences with the same people, and the easiest way to do that would be to become their grandson, great-grandson, cousin, nephew ect.

and even speculation of death is just exactly that. Death of the body on the otherhand... yes the body dies, but we are not the body, the body is merely a vessel. What are we then? Science cant explain that either yet. But we have a sensation of 'being', I guess you could say we are the ghost in the shell, the observer, consciousness.


Theres also scientific evidence of Telepathy, especially in twins.

Dare I say Nina Kulagina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MOLQP_fpI

The russians have collected a lot of documented evidence for psycokinesis with her.

Uri Geller

Uri geller Scientific evidence, and some usage of Kerlian photographs. Interesting to say the least

Many interesting things have been observed with the use of Kerlian photographs with ranges from psychic healers, to pshyic vampires, to the ghost leaf effect.

Quantum physics opens huge doorways for psychic abilities. (i bet someone will try to argue this) Once placing the "observer" in a place where his observation creates the events seen, QM also prooves its possible for objects to pass through one another. and faster then light communication between particles. Anyways if you want to know more about(or debate about) QM and psychic powers just type it in google, so i dont have to get in a long explenation(arguement) with you(because I dont have the mental energy to engage in it; QM takes to much out of me)

Dr Ian Stevenson
http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

Anyways, my point was, people know more then you think, just need to open your eyes and check out the evidence that is already there, or find evidence of your own. Example would be, if reincarnation is real, that would open many doorways, one being life after death.

http://www.borntowin.net/newsite/LearningC...who=e&id=21

This guy is a teacher Moondoggy . One of the best .

The truth of what the bible teaches on hell .