....why do they still pump money into SETI? Its $14m a year, half of which comes from NASA - who, according to people on this board - know that extraterrestrial life already exists., and who are aving their funding slashed by 20%.

http://www.space.com/spacenews/businessmonday_061023.html

Surely this is proof if any need be that those blobs that appear in life NASA feeds are not UFOs and there is definately no conspiracy....?

14 Million a year is like peanuts .....In the years 1998 to 2002 ....14 Trillion went into black ops ...14 Million a year would be cheap propoganda if you're inclined to think it is propoganda.

That is one good reason, another is the knowledge of UFO's is no doubt highly compartmentalized. The vast majority of "government' would no know the truth.

they know; and like bogey said 14 millions pocket change....why would the ets contact SETI anyways?...I think there MO is to avoid detection...you just have to wonder why...why the draconian approach to world contact?...i guess you'd have to ask the guys who have been shooting at the ufos...i believe they fear us.

But you can find videos on YouTube? Doubt it.



Uh... yeah... sure. Thats assuming that they are videos of people (sigh) shooting at UFOs, again something that wouldn't be made freely availible by NASA. It just all seems a bit silly really. Too much effort. You don't think that if they told us, people would just shrug and get on with their lives rather than mass panic?

Not convinced anyway, sorry.

Well the US govt is quite good at funding contradictory initiatives and wasting money.

Anyway, as others pointed out, if the US govt does have the ET knowledge, most of the government is kept out of the loop.

Well, let's face it:

George W. Bush fighting the aliens is not a pretty scenario. I'd want him out of the loop, too.


--Jaylemurph

Plausible deniability. They can tell the public that there is no proof of the aliens and that they are still looking for proof. "They must not know anything about aliens, look, they are still funding SETI". It kind of makes them look innocent.

Then again, maybe SETI is a cover for an early warning program. Sort of like a man in the crows nest to let them know when the aliens are coming.

I stumbled on a very strange web site recently....James Casbolt.com....about aliens/government conspiricy/ secret service drug running!

The claims are so 'off the scale' that you think...why would this guy say all these things..is there something in what he says? Is he crazy? I listened to a radio interview he did in America (the Edge prog. I think) and he didn't sound crazy.

I make a point of keeping an open mind...so I don't dismiss it out of hand...but...I have real trouble taking what he says on board.

There isn't the space to go into his claims here...but if anyone goes onto his site, you'll know what I mean.

Bee ***

Well, for what it's worth, according to the people who espouse/track these things, he's one of the most 'in the loop' presidents, along with his father when it comes to ET stuff. Other presidents like Reagan and Clinton were thought to have been kept out of the loop.

I was under the impression the Government stopped funding SETI years ago. It is strictly private money that keeps it going.

Like it was stated above a few times, They Fund SETI to make you and I think that we are still searching.........It's one of the oldest scams in the book.

WaltFreakinWhitman, I think your right about that, I could have sworn i heard the same thing a while back..It may be privatly owned now..

I'll fight the temption to make a joke about how easy it was to keep Reagan out the loop.
And while I do believe the gov. knows more than it's letting on about these things, knowing they think Bush is in the loop makes me skepical -- the King of the Cowboys would love to invad... liberate another planet.


--Jaylemurph

SETI is peanuts, anyway. Maybe they'll find something, who knows?

Meanwhile, the aliens probably watch the nightly news and American Idol already...and laugh at us.

14 mill is a drop in the bucket compared to actuall waste of money by the defence department.

January 24th, 2006





WASHINGTON -- A retired Army Reserve officer called the Pentagon's fraud hotline last year to complain that the Defense Department had overpaid for kitchen appliances: $1,000 for popcorn makers and toasters, $5,500 for a deep-fat fryer that cost other government agencies $1,919.

Although the officer provided a four-page spreadsheet showing 135 cases of higher prices, the Defense Department dismissed the tip without checking with him.

"We've got an agency that is not doing its job of being a watchdog for the taxpayers," said Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.).

Documents acquired by Knight Ridder under the Freedom of Information Act reveal Paul Fellencer Sr. tried to blow the whistle on what he estimated was as much as $200 million of wasteful spending.

At issue is a multibillion-dollar Pentagon purchasing system called the prime vendor program, which uses middlemen who set their own prices, instead of direct purchases from manufacturers or competitive bidding.

A Knight Ridder investigation of the program found that, for 102 of 122 pieces of food equipment, the Pentagon had paid higher prices to prime vendors than the government did to contractors outside the system. For example, the Pentagon paid $20 apiece for ice cube trays that retail for less than a dollar.

Last year, the Pentagon's waste-and-fraud hotline received four tips complaining about the prime vendor program. One was from Fellencer, who documented Defense Department purchases in a spreadsheet complete with stock numbers and purchase orders. It showed that the Pentagon had spent 39 percent more using prime vendors, compared with buying the items through the civilian General Services Administration. The data were provided to officials at the hotline.

Pentagon investigators never called Fellencer. They spent a total of eight hours investigating his tip, talked to the officials responsible for the program and dismissed the tip as "unsubstantiated," the documents obtained by Knight Ridder show.

"They never did anything; not a whisper from them," Fellencer, a retired Army Reserve lieutenant colonel, told Knight Ridder. "It's just typical. I'm just so frustrated."

According to Diana Stewart, a Defense Logistics Agency spokeswoman, investigators didn't need to contact Fellencer because his letter and spreadsheets "provided adequate information for the examining official to conduct the review and investigation of the complaint."

Stewart defended the agency's inquiry. She said a Defense Logistics Agency investigator found that prime vendors were charging reasonable prices most of the time, "based on interviews with the food service-equipment prime vendor team and his own evaluation of a statistically valid sample of food service-equipment item prices."

The Defense Department touts the program as one of its "best practices" and credits it with timely deliveries that have eliminated the need for expensive inventories and warehousing.

Fellencer's spreadsheet included the following:



An April 2004 purchase of two deep-fat fryers for $5,501.20 apiece; the same item was on the General Services Administration price list for $1,919.




A December 2003 purchase of an electric waffle iron for $1,781.90, compared with the GSA price of $655.96.




A January 2004 purchase of a $1,033 popcorn maker that could have been bought for $768.95. -




Four toasters bought in September 2003 for $1,025 apiece that other federal agencies were buying for $790.60.


Fellencer, the president of the Eagle Marketing Group of Houston, told the hotline he thought that, over all, the prime vendor program "involves as much as $200 million in misspent money."
Other tips to the fraud hotline involved allegations that prime vendors substituted cheaper materials than the ones they'd been paid for and that Defense Logistics Agency officials in South Korea were receiving gifts of food, drink and visits by "juicy girls," an expression for female bar companions. Those complaints either were called unsubstantiated or sent to other agencies for criminal investigation.

Today, food service-equipment industry leaders -- many of them unhappy with the prime vendor program -- are slated to meet with Defense Logistics Agency officials in Philadelphia to discuss the future of the system.

Look past the cowboy persona- I believe it's just an act anyway to give him popular appeal and make people forget he comes from a wealthy, politically-well connected family. His Father was head of the CIA. There are people in his administration like Cheney that are believed to be in the know, etc. If his Father was in the loop, chances are he is, unless the family is really good at keeping secrets.

A theoretical question---

Suppose all this alien/UFO/secret/MJ12 stuff really is BS, just modern myth-making.

You become President, and inquire about recovered UFOs and are told we have nothing of the sort, crash retrivals were really just secret ballons or crashed human-built space-probes. The evidence they have to back it up is pretty convincing.

What do you tell people when asked about the topic.

1. Do you say there is nothing to it?
2. Do you act as though there is something too it, and you just haven't been told?
3. Brush off the question with a wink and a nod.
4. No comment.

I don't know of any President who has given an answer consistant with #1. I think Clinton took the #2 approach, though I can't find the quote. W seems to go the #3 route. Cheney seems to go the #4 way, saying something to the effect "If I have been briefed on it [ufos], it would probably be classified, and I wouldn't be able to tell you."

#2-4 are bound to keep the myth going, if it is a myth. Would it be responsible to take such action?

Or should the fact that presidents aren't denying it be read as implicit confirmation?

The man is clearly thicker than a whale omellette. To act convincingly stupid is actually terribly difficult and he's never once shown a flicker of actual personal intelligence nor is there a trace of intelligence in his past life. Occam's Razor suggests he's just a dupe used by a moe powerful family. He'd be too much of a risk to reveal where they keep the cookies in the White House, let alone covered-up alien intrusions.


--Jaylemurph

Not the sharpest as far as presidents go, Yet still smarter than most people:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2350564,00.html

I still think the US govt keeps aliens and ets from the public; so if the aliens attack they will be able to ambush you more easily, and feed on you...have a nice day!

Well this speaks volumes about you're intelligence IMO.

You are right. Back in 1993 Nevada Senator Richard Bryan successfully introduced an amendment that eliminated all funding for the NASA SETI program. The cost of the program was less than 0.1% of NASAs annual budget, amounting to about a nickel per taxpayer per year.

To day, like the Project Phoenix, is funded by a few major donors, foundations and many private individuals.

Fair enough! I'll admit it: Mr Bush doesn't bring out the best in my personality!

--Jaylemurph

I'm sorry for the insult jay.. you handled that way better than I expected. I know bush isnt popular but I also dont think he's half as bad as all the hype. He actually does a lot of things that anger me but this whole iraq thing and the general consensus lately I dont agree with. Part of the problem for me is the company you are with, like jane fonda, tim robbins and such who just seem to be on a mission to destroy some symbolic monster and I dont believe bush is evil, dumb or progressing towards a police state like a lot of people think. I'm glad we live in a country where we can discuss dislikes and likes without being tracked down like dogs and killed... this was iraq in a nutshell and I'm proud to be a part of their liberation (hopefully, with some luck and determination).
Anyway, I know this was off topic but I owed jay an explanation and apology. We are going to have to do more unpopular things in the near future to stay free and safe from the radicals.. I hope you can support it no matter how unpopular it may seem

Did you know, on the flip side of this coin.. that nasa funds richard haines and NARCAP? Was surprised to see that on narcaps webpage which means.... Atleast I think it means, that the government has their foot in the research door of UFO's regardless of if their natural or ET driven? (I guess ET if it exists would be considered natural?) Anyway, I thought it was interesting to see any connection of narcap and nasa even considering richard's history with nasa

Sorry, I cant find that information now. I saw it on the narcap page, somewhere... I thought lol.... As much as I'd like to show it, I cant find it. It was breaking down the percentage of funding by different sectors and nasa was listed as a fairly small percentage compared to other funders... Oh well, dont quote me cuz I cant prove it now. I'll keep looking though

And, equally, off-topic:
Owe me an apology? Certainly not!
Deep in my heart, I suspect Mr Bush isn't nearly as daft as I want him to be, but it really is so easy to think otherwise. My father was a Green Beret who served several times in Viet-Nam and who, to this day, loathes Jane Fonda. I'm not so short-sighted as not to see why he does, but I can't bring myself to fully support our duly-elected commander-in-chief, either. Like you, I'm thankful to live in a country that not only tolerates but supports such dissenting views, and I hope eventually Iraq can (with, or even better, without our help) evolve to tolerate such diverse dissent, too.
But -- as certain quarters have said for years -- if we have to change our basic charters of freedom to defeat our enemies, we have to think long and hard whether we need to involve ourselves in such a fight.


--Jaylemurph

What a waste of my time. Duh! The OP is probably planning another intellectual post...

I think at most if aliens visit the government is only aware of an ET pressence and not activly involved in any type of cover up except confirmation.

Based on what IU have seen they most likely do not have any more information then the ufologists likely have.
Without a doubt ET life has to exist somewhere we just haven't found it yet. Our solar system and more specifically Earth is proof that bodies orbiting around stars can produce life forms.

To be fair here though $14m is nothing compared to the costs of say the Iraq war which costs a billion+ a day or military contracting which is in the trillions of dollars. Although I can't say if there is a cover up regarding aliens I will say they do cover up other things like exotic aircraft and what have you.



Let's say there is a cover up for a second....

A person is smart to many people have seen, photographed and video taped conventionally unexplainable objects. I once thought that UFO's were nothing more then whooey until I witnessed one. I won't go as far to say ET but I will say that UFO's in particular do exist. Millions claim to have witnessed them and out of all of those they all can't be crazy or liars.

People in general ar idiots however the government realizes this. If they told us Aliens exist religion world wide would fall apart, People who beleive we are alone especially the religious would likely panic as everything they have beleived their whole lives fall apart. Today many people beleive aliens exist and have beleived for many years. If the government said every UFO was ours and proved it what would they do... Point is people as a whole are unpredictable animals, the only thing that sets us apart from a chimp is the fact we understand the universe and how things work.

In a way if there really is a cover up I am almost inclined to say humanity is not ready for it yet despite the arguments from beleivers. Know one knows the answer and those with resources give people the run around. There are those who beleive and those who don't neither side might not be able to handle the answer they get. I mean how would you take it if everything you beleived for your whole life turned out to be a lie.

There are clear and obvious reasons why they keep the conspiracy theories alive at least until humanity is ready for it as a whole. Neither side of the debate has considered what would happen if they got an unexpected answer that did not fit their beleifs.

What did the ufo you saw look like?

I'm not a big fan of Bush either, but I find I'm often pushed into a position of defending him because the criticism of him is often so outrageous, over-the-top or irrational.

I wasn't for Iraq at the time, but now that we're in there, we owe it to ourselves, our troops and the Iraqis to try to fix the security problems and not just flee because the constant barrage of one-sided criticism has worn down the public support. We wouldn't be in Iraq if the invasion didn't have the huge public support it did at the beginning (something like 90%), as well as many of the politicians of both parties. Now everyone is trying to wash their hands of the whole thing and act like it was all Bush's idea. Both parties were pushing the Iraq-WMD line before Bush came to power, so the 'Bush Lied' reasoning doesn't even hold water. So in my view, if Iraq was a disaster then the 90% of Americans who enabled it by supporting it are as responsible for the disaster as Bush is.

I've seen 2 but that is for another topic....I have posted about them in other threads.

Do you have links?

Also, why don't we play it safe a get our as*es out of here?

oops, goofed that post!
I find myself somewhere in the same realm as you. I was on the flip side of the war support (I actually supported it), I thought we needed to get the radicals on their own ground (at the time)... Now I find myself wondering if they are even capable enough to regroup and do anything equally as big as 9/11. I am an ex-military guy too, so patriotism may get the better of me when I hear political attacks... Either way I'm glad we got saddam out and I believe iraq is on its way to democracy whether we can credit bush or not. I have more respect for folks like your father than jane fonda plus an angry mob could beat out of me with spiked baseball bats. Now thats integrity, honor, patriotism and heroics all wrapped up in a bundle even if he didnt want to go in the first place.. And I'm sure, like the rest of the vets, he'd never call himself a hero... Thats ok! He's got people like us who support him, same with iraq soldiers when they come home.

Sorry, I seemed to mix my answers of two posts.. but you guys will get it:-) I was paying reaspects to the green beret dad and agreeing with your opinion at the same time... Tired!!

To be on topic here.. I dont think bush has knowledge of ET (if ET exists), I debate whether or not the government in general could even make an official comment as to the reality of ET driven craft, but I dont think they're above a cover-up that either. Still not sure about government involvement here, there seems to be something to it but my main question is still only one: Are ET's here? Adding other questions only dilutes my original question and I personally have to keep it simple.

This reminds me of a conversation I had today about Iraq and the mistake we made entering their country. We came to the conclusion that no matter what happens now, 9/11 and our reaction to it have caused a spiraling effect that will lead to basically never ending war. I think the only thing that could possibly fix that situation is for an obvious and undeniable proof of aliens to come out. Just like Reagan said. So maybe that's why our government wants to say that there aren't any aliens because if we did prove it, the world would unite together as human kind knowing there are other beings out there who would love to hurt us, and thus no more war on the globe. (I dont think any alien race is out to kill us at all, but I think a lot of people would ultimately be scared of aliens instead of accepting them, just like we are scared of terrorists right now.) So what do you guys think about that idea? Maybe that's why our governments around the world are resistant to admit that aliens exist, because it might be detrimental to their agenda?

Ok, exactly how would alien contact change the mindset of Islamic extremist terrorism? To be frank, I think it far more likely that the extremists would simply label the aliens as demons and attempt to destroy them right along with the rest of us "infidels".

So, you're saying that the US government hides the reality of alien contact because this would lead to the eradiction of all war between us humans? Once again, I don't see any evidence that this scenario would ever play out as described. I don't think alien contact would necessarily lead to certain parties changing their faith based violent agendas.



I don't think there's much to support this idea.



All governments around the world know about these aliens? All governments have agendas that include covering up this information? This doesn't even seem to be good speculation, let alone have much in the way of evidence that can serve to support such an idea.

I have heard that they don't really use that money for the SETI program, It's just a bogus front for what they really use the money for, Secret projects and other stuff they don't want to have to explain to the population..

Once again-

SETI, in an astrobiology capacity to attract scientists, was awarded funding from NASA, probably since their selection as one of NASA AMES Astrobiology 12 member institutes, as of 2003. My guess is $1 million in 2003, 2004, and 2005, and $750K in 2006.

The 2007 House Budget Committee was up against a deadline, so they took several items, including the NASA 2007 Budget Proposal, and simply proposed they be held to 2006 funding levels and passed it onto the Senate. It should be dealt with by the Senate, and their version sent to the President in a few days.

Bottom line is that the bulk of the astrobiology research money allowed NASA, flows through AMES Research Center. It has been awarding research money to over a dozen universities and institutes since 1998, granting $1 million per team member, annually.

Eventually, the new manned lunar program will take money away other projects, and astrobiology is no exception. Their budget will be reduced to 50% of 2005 levels, by this year or next. In the mean time, SETI created The Carl Sagan Center to seek new funding for their continued participation.

Quote-

"The Carl Sagan Center brings together over 50 scientists from a wide variety of fields to create the rich intellectual atmosphere that enables and enhances pursuit of the study of life in the universe from all these vantage points. Partners include NASA, the National Science Foundation, National Laboratories, and major universities.

G. Scott Hubbard, renown for a lifetime of contribution to space exploration and former Director of NASA Ames Research Center, holds the Carl Sagan Chair, and guides the Carl Sagan Center for the Study of Life in the Universe. Frank Drake, former Dean of Natural Sciences at the University of California at Santa Cruz and a member of the National Academy of Science, administers the Center."

So, why all the interest, if we have never found life, elsewhere? The answer seems to be fourfold.

First, the Viking Landers took soil samples on Mars in the late 1970s, which were negative for life. The sites were selected because of engineering limitations, and subsequent Mars missions were eventually planned in the 1990s. In 1996, Mars Pathfinder was launched, and then the Rovers that are there today. Sixteen scientists associated with SETI have been involved in research regarding Mars, and its analogues on Earth.

Second, the Human Genome Project was starting to roll in the early 1990s, lending new meaning to biological areas of research. And, if I am correct, the scientist at the head of the HGP was a professed believer in a divine purpose to the Universe, and held that life was likely to exist elsewhere in the cosmos.

Third, around 1995, swiss astronomer Didier Queloz was the first to confirm data on a planet orbiting a star like our sun. In 1998, NASA announced plans to study the formation of galaxies, stars, planets and life.

And fourth, the Galileo probe sent back data that was interpreted to mean there was possibly salt water beneath what appeared to be an icy crust on the jovian moon Europa. Not to mention a martian meteorite that some thought might show signs of bacteria. The White House held a conference to discuss the matter. Many scientists now think those are not bacteria related, however.

SETI has devoted time to researching Europa and possible earth analogue sites.

It looks like they are hoping to continue future astrobiology related research, by going as privately funded as possible.

of course you are absolutely right.

What the government knows about UFOs.

http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00008.pdf

This is not to challenge either person's position on the "blobs" in STS or ISS videos. My personal feelings are that the DOD work performed by STS would prevent them from revealing the mission details. For example might be when they were running laser reflectance experiments to calibrate a satellite. David Sereda failed to mention this about STS-44 in his video- the production that stirred up most of this debate. Most of the other stuff is just fluff, meteors, or maybe a few lights that might be less explainable. One needs to consider the normal light sources first, and then rule them out when a great deal of reason allows it.

As for the assertion that SETI has been receiving either $7 million or $14 million from taxpayers, it simply does not wash. I looked up the budget details, and crossed-checked as much as I could. It just is not true.

Therefore, an argument can not be based upon that oversight.

Uh huh. You know me.

i thought SETI was privatly funded .Ask yourself this;if your walking down the street and find 10£($),do you stop looking for more? if that made any sence lol

I appologize about that. You responded with style.

(picks up knuckles off floor, stops breathing through mouth, and takes ten demerits)

I agree. $14M is nothing when you're talking about the government.

To make people like you think there is no conspiracy.

I was just reminded of an interview with Frank Drake in which he said that he could very well be part of a cover-up.

If there was even the slightest trace of life outside our planet don't you think NASA and SETI's funding would be ballooning?