I have no idea, this seems wrong. This is unjust and unfair.

Yes Mainpoint its alright with me.

SeanP, it is universally held among WESTERN scholars. Even if it was held universaly amoung Muslim scholars, scholars are humans they arent prophets or divine beings, they can make mistakes in identifying who a man is. And still, the magority of the scholars do not identify him as alexander and as I said even if they did they are human and make mistakes, no big deal. As mandpoint said, read the QUran yourself and you come to your own conclusion as to where it came from. If Satan were to inspire a religion and a book, it has to be like him, evil, so u have to read the Quran see if it is from satan or not which it isnt.

Hello... I thought I'd repeat myself since I got no response. And the question is to Muslim, or anyone else who may know.

Sorry I didnt see ur first post where you asked this question, I apologies. As for music, scholars have differed on this but the majority of them have said that music isnt allowed exept for musical instruments which dont have strings or something like that. Muslim men arent allowed to shake a womans hand thats true, and its out of respect to the woman. Yes we are supposed to eat with the right hand only since we believe its more blessed.

Peace be unto you.

Actually, I thought the right hand for eating was because the left was used for less, uhm, sanitary acts.

That's what I didn't want to assume, because I have also heard that and it always seems like an ignorant assumption...

Thank you for clarifying, Muslim.

Right Hand, Left Hand
As with many local customs around the world, Islam distinguishes the use of the right and left hands for a number of applications.

The dwellers of Paradise are often referred to in the Qur'an as 'companions of the right hand', and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) would always begin tasks such as brushing hair or taking wudu on the right hand side. On the other hand (no pun intended), the dwellers of Hell are referred to as 'companions of the left hand'.

As far as practical uses for everyday life is concerned...:

The left hand is primarily used for cleaning yourself, especially for cleaning the private parts after using the toilet. "What's that? Cleaning the private parts using your hand? That sounds horrible, what's wrong with toilet paper?" people may ask. If that sounds like you, just answer this - if you get dirty, what's the most hygienic way of cleaning the affected area? Wash it thoroughly with soap and water, or smear the dirt around with a piece of tissue in a vain attempt at picking it all up? The right hand is used for just about everything else - shaking hands, eating and picking up the Qur'an should only be done with the right hand - be sure to remember this!
If someone offers to shake your hand while it is dirty, don't offer to shake with your left. Simply tell them that your hand is dirty, and offer your right forearm for him / her to shake instead. NOTE: Only offer to shake hand with someone of the same gender as you.

With regards to writing, drawing, or any other activities, there is no preference between your left and right hands.


From: A clear guide to Islam under the "customs & etiquette' section

Ah... thank you for the proof behind your statement. I guess I should just look at it as being all about interpretation?

Either way, it seems reasonable. I think.

And as I pointed out to MP ... This is not how you determine the authenticity of a text. The application of Historical Method, Textual Criticism et al is.



And must I point out the numerous verses that, like the Bible, are disgusting, evil, and absurd? There are many.

And you didn't answer the following questions:

How can you trust Muhammad when even he claimed to be deceived by Satan?

And what scholar--not apologist--claims Ali is incorrect regarding this issue?

Sean

Yes that too.



I dont think your question is a sincere question so, i chose to believe him because I believe he was the last prophet conveying the last and final message to mankind and therefore God didnt allow more deception to take place.



Um all of the biggest scholars of Mecca itself. Ibn Baz Ibn Othaimeen and so on (these are the grand muftis of mecca). The general idea among scholars who havent even herd of Yusuf Ali and him claiming this is alexander is that you have no right in Islam to claim that this is so and so and this is so and so as long as the prophet peace be upon him never said who this is and the Quran doesnt say who this is than you have absolutely no right claiming who this person is. Go up to ANY Muslim imam or sheikh if u will and ask him are u allowed in Islam to claim this verse is speaking of so and so if the Quran doesnt say who this is and Mohammed never said who this is? He'll tell you no we arent because its a Bid'ah meaning an interpolation u are inserting something into the religion which wasnt there at the time of Mohammed and this is an extremely huge sin in Islam.

I couldn't have been more sincere. How can you possibly trust someone who can't tell the difference between the voice of Gabriel or Satan?



Why did God allow any to begin with?! Doesn't that raise a red flag to you?

Haven't heard?! His "... translation of the Qur'an ranks alongside the translation of Marmaduke Pickthall as the most widely-known and used in the world..." and they haven't heard of him?! They, obviously, are not true scholars in any sense of the word.



Ah, objective "scholars". And are any of these "scholars" even remotely critical of Muhammad and the origins and evolution of Islam? What would happen to them if they were? I guarantee it would not be pretty. That said, please provide a link or two to their work. I would like to read what they have to say for myself.

Please provide more information on this gentleman.



Ask an Imam?! A professional apologist?! How about a more informed source--a historian, professor?

Sean

I have found some verses in the Quran (which is proven was written 1400 years ago) are accurate to this day, Science has only learnt of these thing only in the last 2-3 centuries.

--sura 25, verse 61:
"Blessed is the One Who placed the constellations in heaven and placed therein a lamp and a moon reflecting light."

Now it is only recently we have discovered that sun gives off its own light through fusion the light then falls on the moon at night and thats how the moon shines.

--sura 16, verses 5 to 8:
"(God) created cattle for you and (you find) in them warmth, useful services and food, sense of beauty when you bring them home and when you take them to pasture. They bear your heavy loads to lands you could not reach except with great personal effort. Verily, your Lord is Compassionate and Merciful; (He created) horses, mules and donkeys for you to ride and for ornament. And He created what you do not know."

Here it clearly points out that Quran is not restricted to time. Even after talking about things known at that time it talks about things not known to man at that time possibly rides which he have made only recently like automobiles ? bikes?

--sura 36, Verse 36:
"Glory be to Him Who created the components of couples of every kind: of what the ground caused to grow, of themselves (human beings) and of what you do not know."

This verse mentions sexual reproduction in plants which is similar to ones in animals and only recently man has learnt about this. Also if you note this verse also mentions that man didnt know this fact at that time.

--sura 24, verse 45:
"God created every animal from water."

Science now agrees source of life is water without water no life. Thats why we are looking for water on mars!

i have many more verses but little time so enjoy.

Obviously--save for God created.



A blatant rip-off of the already well-known Noah story. And a very obvious and observable fact, don't you think?



And it also tates:

86:5 So let man consider from what he is created.
86:6 He is created from a gushing fluid
86:7 That issued from between the loins and ribs.

VS:

17:61 And when We said unto the angels: Fall down prostrate before Adam and they fell prostrate all save Iblis, He said: Shall I fall prostrate before that which Thou hast created of clay?

VS:

18:37 And his comrade (Abel?) while he disputed with him (Cain?) exclaimed: Disbelievest in Him Who created thee of dust, then of a drop (of seed), and then fashioned thee a man?

Slight contradiction, yes? Water, a fluid, clay, dust ...

Qur'an, Islam and Science
http://www.answering-islam.org.uk/Science/index.html

Sean

some more interesting verses in Quran for people who havent read the quran

--sura 21, verse 33:
"(God is) the One Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion."

--sura 36, verse 40:
"The sun must not catch up the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion."

Historically man thought the earth was still and the center around which the sun and moon moved in same orbit. While the earth stood still. Nowhere in Quran it is mentioned that earth stood still and the sun and moon revolved around it.
Initially astronomers discovered (about 500 years ago) that earth was infact moving around the sun so you can suspect maybe the verses are wrong because it says the sun is in an orbit.

BUT according to the scientific knowledge today these verses dont contradict todays science but support it!

The Moon is an orbit around the earth.
The sun is in an orbit around the center of galaxy!.
And these are 2 totally different orbits. 1 around the earth the other around the center of galaxy!

I say its pretty amazing considering the fact it was written 1400 years ago.

1 thing i forgot to mention in the previous posting was the fact that at that time the concept of ecclipse was explained by the fact that somehow the sun and moon caught up with each other ie they met. As you can see they dont meet they are far away the earth comes in between or the moon comes in between

I have seen it said that muslims believe the jesus of christianity to be a prophet of Allah.

What teachings, if any, of the carpenters son are taught to muslims? Or is it considered haram to read the bible of the christians?

I am a muslim too. I live in the States and people have so many misconceptions about islam. Its truly awesome and inspiring that "Muslim" started this thread to impart true knowledge about islam to non muslims. I will try to answer , i hope its ok with "Muslim". Ill try not to do this often.

Well going back to answer we believe islam is the exact teaching of Jesus Christ not to mention Muhammad, Abraham, Moses and others. Now if you compare modern day christianity vs islam there are differences but most of them are the same.
some similarities ; correct me if am wrong

Do not steal
Do not harm or kill anyone or anything unjustly
Do not lie
Do not cheat
Do not envy
Spread good teachings to others

Now for differences. Christian visitors can correct me if i make any mistakes regarding modern christian teachings

There is only 1 divine entity ie God in islam
Do not drink alcohol
Do not commit fornication
Do not eat pork meat
Give Zakat which is annual charity
Infact eat meat only if its slaughtered in name of God

There are many more similarities and differences maybe others can help list them.

Thank you mainpoint, but I'm not quite sure you answered my question.

Being a muslim, and believing Jesus was a prophet kind of puts you at odds with the christian belief that he is the son ofgod/god.

So my question, is any of Jesus' teachings, or parables incorporated into the Quran, and if not, have you read the bible? Or is it forbidden?

Ill let Muslim correct me if i am wrong.

The reading of bible is not forbidden. i have personally read the bible though not in one settings. There are many similarites but there are differences as well. Infact some muslim scholars use bible as a source for theological study of islam as long as its not contradicting canonical quranic teachings like considering Jesus as the prophet of God not son.

Its funny how many misconceptions exist in people who are non muslims about islam. It cracks me up sometimes when i hear these view frankly because they are unheard off if you are a common muslim. just out of curiosity where did you hear that reading the bible was forbidden?.

I didn't hear it. I am asking, since I do not know.

Some christians, fundamentalist as they are refuse to even consider opening the holy book of another religion.

I was curious if muslims felt the same way.

But since you consider my questions funny and amusing, I will not ask any more.

I apologize to JMPD1 about my earlier comment i didn't want to belittle or offend the question. What i find funny and amusing maybe a serious question to someone else, i am sorry i realize that now.

Thats exactly the point i have made earlier. People in the west especially in the recent years have been continuously bombarded information about islam most of it by non-muslims, some of it by religious extremists of other religious groups, which is only based on sensationalism and misconceptions. This has created a big gap in understanding.

It would would been better if you worded the questions about muslim fundamentalists. See muslims are more than 1.5 billion people living on this planet. Most of them are not arabs, I am not Arab. I would say 99% are not fundamentalists.

Back to your question i can imagine fundamentalist muslims totally shunning other religious books. Sorry, i dont know any fundamentalist muslims so i cant say yes or no. Most likley they will since they want to be "fundamentalists". i can answer for the common muslim there is no rule regarding "shunning" other books. Some maybe inflammatory and blasphemous but unless some people get pissed off there are no Quranic rules about not researching are reading books about other faiths.

Infact there is a very famous saying quoted by Muhammad PBUH "I want you to read and look for knowledge even if you have to go all the way to china".

Again i dont wanto discourage any questions about islam i apologize again

Thanks, but I think I'll save my amusing comments for when I do stand up.

Enjoy your faith

namaste

Thanks i am going to be here "standing" and enjoying" if there are any further questions. Work week is starting so i wont have much time but ill be around.

guten tag

Since muslim hasn't been around lately, I'll take the opportunity to ask you for one or two explanations on the Quran.

How long is Allah's day?

1000 years?

22:47
A Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon.

32:5
He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.

50,000 years?

70:4
Unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years.

Was Pharaoh drowned or saved?

He was drowned.

17:102-3
I deem thee lost, O Pharaoh. And he wished to scare them from the land, but We drowned him and those with him, all together.

28:40
We seized him [Pharaoh] and his hosts, and abandoned them unto the sea.

43:55
So, when they angered Us, We punished them and drowned them every one.

He was saved.

10:90-92
Pharaoh ... when the (fate of) drowning overtook him, he exclaimed: I believe that there is no God save Him in Whom the Children of Israel believe ... But this day We save thee in thy body that thou mayst be a portent for those after thee.

Could Allah have a son?

Yes.

39:4
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.

No.

6:100-1
Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?

Can a man treat his wives fairly?

Yes, it is possible.

4:3
Marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess.

No, you will not be able to do so.

4:129
Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so).


How about the following Scientific and Social absurdeties?

1. There were gathered together unto Solomon his armies of the jinn ... and of the birds, and they were set in battle order.--27:17 I thought jinn were supposed to be elements of superstition, and not believed to exist by muslims?


2. Allah commands the angels to worship Adam. They all do, except for Iblis, who becomes a disbeliever. 2:34
An angel becomes a disbeliever?

3. Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews at the time of Moses because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. But what prophets could they have killed and what revelations could they have rejected? Most of the prophets and revelations came later, didn't they? 2:61

4. Allah turned the Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes. 2:65-66
I wonder what science has to say about this?

You seem to have a lot of questions and comments. Please be clear about what questions you are asking. I am not sure about some of them or i cant understand your wording. Your questions are intermixed with comments. To make things simpler just ask a question without comments.

I'll let Muslim answer them, i think Muslim knows more than I.

Jor-el I have reported u, please dont go off topic again, this topic is only for those inerested in learning about Islam and not anything else. peace be with u.



Ill answer it in a different way. The teachings of Jesus in the Bible, arent his own, theyre from God of course, or who u would call his father correct? And since u also believe Jesus was a prophet, his teachings had to be the same as the other prophets who came before him becasue they all came from teh same source, God of course, correct? So in Islam, if u want to know the teachings of Jesus, just read the Quran, if u want to know the teachings of any prophet also just study the Quran because all prophets came from God and preached the same message. Lol sorry if i confused u. did i?

Well, muslim, I'm waiting for a reply (bottom of page 14) ...

And I would like to comply, but since I have not gone off topic, "the topic is "Ask a Muslim" I believe that what you are doing is throwing sand in my face and everybody elses.

You have consistently avoided those questions which you cannot or refuse to answer in favour of a more pat and mainstream approach. Yet if you cannot answer the difficult ones how can your claims be certified?

All questions that have been put foreward by me in this thread as well as others, concerning the validity of the Quran have been ignored by you, what does this say about what you are trying to communicate?

You can only report someone who willfully disrespects you personally or who is off topic, where have I done this, in any thread, much less yours?

Finally, this is an open and public forum, if you participate, you have to accept a certain ammount of opposition to your ideas, it is your job to defend them, nobody elses. It was my job to defend the bible from your questionable attacks and claims, now it is only fair to provide you with the opportunity to do the same for the Quran.

No it doesnt not at all. It proves that Mohammed was human and open to err and this had to be stressed so that he wouldnt be worshiped. This was allowed deliberately by God so that Muslims wouldnt fall in the same trap Christians fell into.



I already gave u names but ur still not wanting to accept the fact that the man made a mistake. If his mistake was based on any proof, than we could argue that yes the Quran says it is alexander. How can any scholar agree with Yusuf when his conclusion is based on nothing? We dont follow people blindly in Islam even scholars you're supposed to think for yourself and Yusuf mad a mistake simple as that, our scholars arent divine and we dont claim they are inspired by a holly spirit, they can err and he did. Have u herd of any other scholar who said that this is alexander? No.

You yourself know this isnt true. The Quran was first written, mostly on leaves AND memorized orally, after that it was compiled into one book. The suras were aranged in the order of the length exept for the first sura in the Quran, the opening. We know exactly when each sura was revealed but they werent arranged in that order to make it easier for the one reading the Quran.



I wont provide u more information on these gentlemen because I dont want to waste my time just to prove to you that dhul qarnaing isnt alexander just because ONE scholar made this claim. Can u bring anyone else who said this is alexander? Have u herd of anyone else? No. U are taking a tiny mistake and making it into a huge one where the mistake isnt that of the Quran it is that of the translator. Think of it by common sence, if other scholars believed this prior to Yusuf Ali or even other then Yusuf Ali dont u think these sites u visit would have quoted them instead of Yusuf Ali? The biggest Muslim scholars never ever said thise because they know its forbidden in Islam to do such a thing to say this is so and so where u have absolutely no bases of what u saying.

I think you should sit down and read the Quran someday.


Jor-el I will discuss your points even though they show that you havent even read what you're copy pasting, very hateful on your behalf.



There i sno contradiction. If it said 50,000 years of what ye reckon it would have been, but it isnt, sorry.




Thank you for proving that the Quran is the worf of God period. The Quran said that he was drowned but his body was saved so that he would be a sign for those who disbelieve and his body has been found a couple of years ago so thanks a bunch.



Again there is no contradiction here. the first verse says if He wanted to, the second says how can He have one? No contradiction. Its saying that how can He have one meaning that He doesnt have one. Read these verses read the entire Quran u cant find one single clear cut contradiction like the ones in your Bible.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdu...nsistencies.htm




You see, unlike the Bible, we actually know for the Quran why some verses were revealed, what was going on at that time, etc. The secdond verse you quoted was directed to a specific person. No contradiction.

Umm you were wrong !



And says who he was of the angels? He was of the jin.

You have a metatlity that if the Bible says something and the Quran says something else the Quran has to be wrong. If the bible and the Quran differ this just means that they differ this doesnt prove one right and one wrong.



And I wonder what science has to say about this:

In Judges 15:4-5: Samsung, In Palestine, gets three hundred foxes and:

4 So he went out and caught three hundred foxes and tied them tail to tail in pairs. He then fastened a torch to every pair of tails, 5 lit the torches and let the foxes loose in the standing grain of the Philistines. He burned up the shocks and standing grain, together with the vineyards and olive groves.

Can you imagine?!?! And they cooperated! Where did he get the foxes from in Palestine? Three hundred foxes cooperating and he ties them and burns them and theyre okay with it! This is absurd!

This is in your Bible. Do you believe that? Do you? He says yes, because its in the book. Can you imagine!

There are ten cases of insest in the Bible, TEN CASES! Why? What for? Why is God going to tell us this! God the Holly One is going to tell you how to rape your own sister, what for?

Here here look, 2 Samuel 13:6:

6 So Amnon lay down, and made himself sick: and when the king was come to see him, Amnon said unto the king, I pray thee, let Tamar my sister come, and make me a couple of cakes in my sight, that I may eat at her hand.

What for! God in his infinite widsom is going to tell us this, what for? Did you learn anything from that? What does it teach you?!

Again:
Judges 16:1
1 Then went Samson to Gaza, and saw there an harlot, and went in unto her.

Full stop. Thats it! What is the moral behind this? Nothing nothing.

God Almighty, in the Bible, is supposed to be a barber:

20 In the same day the Lord will shave with a hired razor,
With those from beyond the River, with the king of Assyria,
The head and the hair of the legs,
And will also remove the beard.
(Isaiah 7:20)

This is your idea of God? This is your book which is supposed to be of God? This is discusting the very least. God Almighty in his magesty and holliness is going to shave there legs. It didnt say how high though.

God in the Bible ha a dragons attributes:
2 Samuel 22:9:
9 Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;
Coals were kindled by it.
..
11 He rode upon a cherub, and flew;
And He was seen upon the wings of the wind.

Do you know what a cherub is my friend?
In the dictionary it says "a child like angel." It's an angel who is naked with breasts and everything and she has wings and buttoks and nipples and everything! This is Gods Holliness to you and your book! This is filth attributed to God far exhalted is he.

Dead Men walking!
After the ressurection of Jesus Matthew says that:

52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
(Matthew 27:52-53)

And than .. FULL STOP! THATS IT! What happened to them? Out of all the Gospels only Matthew saw this and wrote it in his book and thats it they just popped out of there graves and walked around in the city. can you imagine? If someone comes out of the grave today it would be world news! but no, the bible says its normal. They came out of there graves and thats it. Stories are half told and they are stories which would be better off in a cartoon show for kids.

Another absurd story: One man kills SIX HUNDRED PEOPLE WITH A STICK:
Judges 3:31:

31 After him was Shamgar the son of Anath, who killed six hundred men of the Philistines with an ox goad; and he also delivered Israel.

SIX HUNDRED PEOPLE ARE KILLED WITH A STICK! WHERE DID HE STRIKE THEM? AND THE FOOLS THEY DIDNT RUN AWAY THE VERY LEAST? IF THEY SPIT ON HIM HE WOULD HAVE SUFFICATED!

You see, these stories are not fitting into Gods magesty that you say he uttered them and dictated them to you. Yes many of Gods prophets have performed miracles but behind every miracle is wisdome. Not absurdities like what I quoted. People jumping out of the grave, where are they today? Who knows.

And last but most definetly not least:
(a man killing a THOUSAND men with a... gun? No.. with a jaw bone of a donkey!)
(Judges 15:15)

15 He found a fresh jawbone of a donkey, reached out his hand and took it, and killed a thousand men with it.

You believe that? he says yes its in my book! One Jewish boy kills ONE THOUSAND palestinians with a jaw bone of a donkey! They didnt run away? If they breathed unto him he would have died! I hear Israel is having some troubel with Hamas. Maybe instead of paying millions of weapons they should go search for the jaw bone of the donkey.

You see the Quran says they were punished for not obbeying God, there was a wisdom behind that no matter what, but the Bible it has these funny stories with men killing 1000 with a stick for no reason. So please, dont throw people with rocks if your house is made of glass. You are the last person on the face of the earth who should be even speaking about science. The Bible is so messed up scientifically that its just funny that we are to assume that God Almighty doesnt even know how He created His own universe:

in genesis 6,3 God decides before the flood to limit mans lifespan to one hundred and twenty ears. further on in genesis 11,10-32 we find that the ten descendants of noah had a lifespan of 148 to 600 years. the contradiction is quite obvious.

It is mentioned in Ezra, Ch. No.2, Verse No.1, and Nehemiah, Ch. No.7, Verse No.6, the context that… ‘When the people returned from exile, from Babylon, when king Nebucheldeser of Babylon, when he released the men from Israel, they came back from captivity’ - and the list of the people are given. The list is given in Ezra, Ch. No.2, Verse No.2 to 63, and Nehemiah Ch. No.7, Verse No.7 up to 65; the list is given with the names as well as number of people released. In these 60 Verses there are no less than 18 times - the name is exactly the same but the number is different. There are no less than 18 contradictions in less than 60 Verses, of these two Chapters. This is the list - I don’t have time to run through the list - There are no less than 18 different contradictions in less than 60 Verses. Further it is mentioned in Ezra, Ch. No.2 Verse No.64 that… ‘The total congregation, if you add up… if you add up, it comes to 42,360.’ And if you read in Nehemiah, Ch. No.7, Verse No.66, there also the total is the same 42,360. But if you add up all these verses - which I had to do my homework - this is the list of Ezra… this is the list of Nehemiah. Ezra Ch. No 2, Nehemiah Ch. No 7 - If you add up - I had to do my homework…if you add up, Ezra Ch. No. 2 - It does not come to 42,360 - it comes to 29,818. And if you add up Nehemiah, Ch. No. 7, even then it does not come to 42,360 - It comes to 31,089. The author of the Bible, presumed to be ‘Almighty God’, does not know simple addition. If you give this problem, even to a person who has passed elementary school, he will be able to get the right answer.

. ­­­­­­ It is mentioned in the 2nd Kings, Chapter No.8, Verse No.26, it says that… ‘Ahezia… that Ahezia, he was 22 years old, when he began to reign.’ ­­­­­­2nd Chronicles, Chapter No. 22, Verse No. 2, says that… ‘He was 42 years old, when he began to reign. ­­­­­­Was he 22 years old, or was he 42 years old? - Mathematical contradiction. ­­­­­­Further more, in 2nd Chronicles, Chapter No. 21, Verse No. 20, it says that… ‘Joaram, the father of Ahezia, he reigned at the age of 32 - and he reigned for 8 years, and he died at the age of 40. ­­­­­Immediately… Ahezia became the next ruler at the age of 42. ­­­­­­ Father died at the age of 40 - Immediately son takes over, who is at the age of 42. ­­­­­­How can a son, be two years older than the father?’ ­­­­­­Believe me even... even in Hollywood film, you will not be able to produce it. ­­­­­­

It is mentioned in the Proverbs, Chapter No. 6, Verse No. 7, that… ‘Ant has got no ruler, no sear, no chief.’ Today we know that ants are sophisticated insects. They have a very good system of labour, in which they have chief, they have foreman, they have workers. They even have a queen, they have a ruler - Therefore Bible is unscientific. Further more, it is mentioned in the Bible, in Genesis, Chapter 3, Verse 14, and Isaiah Chapter 65, verse No. 25, that… ‘Serpents eat dust.’ No Geological book says ‘Serpents eat dust.’ It is mentioned in the Book of Leviticus, Chapter No.11, Verse No.20… ‘Among the abomination things, fowls with four feet - They are an abomination.’ And some scholars say that ‘fowl’ is a wrong translation of the Hebrew word ‘uff.’ In King James, it should be ‘insect’ or ‘winged creature.’ And in New International Version, it says… ‘Winged creature.’ But it says… ‘All insects which are four footed, are an abomination - They are detestful for you.’ I want to ask you … ‘Which insects have got four feet?’ Even a student, who has passed elementary school, knows that insects have got 6 feet. There is no bird in the world, there is no foul in the world, there is no insect in the worlds, which have got four feet.


analyse what the Bible says about modern science - First we deal with Astronomy., The Bible speaks about the creation of the universe. In the beginning, 1st Book, Book of Genesis, 1st Ch., it is mentioned - It says… ‘Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, in six days and talks about a evening and a morning, referring to a 24 - hour day. Today scientists tell us, that the universe cannot be created in a 24 hour period of six days. Qur’an too speaks about six ‘ayyams’. The Arabic word singular is ‘yaum’ plural is ‘ayyam’. It can either mean a day of 24 hours, or it is a very long period, an ‘yaum’, an epoch. Scientists say we have no objection in agreeing that the universe - it could have been created in 6 very long periods. Point No.2 - Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…‘Light was created on the first day.’ enesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’. How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day? - It is unscientific. Further, the, Bible says Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13… ‘Earth was created on the 3rd day. How can you have a night and day without the earth ? The day depends upon the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a night and day? Point No..4, Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says… ‘Earth was created on the third day.’ Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says…‘The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.’ Today science tells us… ‘Earth is part of the parent body… the sun.’ It cannot come into existence before the sun – It is unscientific. Point No. 5, the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No. 11 to 13…‘The vegetation, the herbs the shrubs, the trees - they were created on the 3rd day And the Sun, Genesis, Ch. No. 1, Verses. 14 to 19, was created on the 4th day.How can the vegetation come into existence without sunlight, and how can they survive without sunlight ? Point No.6, that the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night. The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’ And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses – Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says…‘And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth… To give light to the earth.’ Indicating, that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction with established scientific knowledge that we have. There are certain people who try and reconciliate, and say that the six days mentioned in the Bible, it actually refers to epocs - like the Qur’an long periods - not six, 24 hour day. It is illogical - you read in the Bible, evening, morning - It clearly states 24 hours, it indicates. But even if I use the concordance approach - no problem. I agree with your illogical argument - Yet they will only be able to solve the 1st scientific error of 6 days creation, and second, of first day ‘light’ and 3rd day ‘earth.’ The remaining four, yet they cannot solve. Some further say that… ‘If it is a 24-hour period, why cannot the vegetables survive for one 24 hour day without sunlight?’ I say ‘Fine - If you say that the vegetables were created before the sun, and can survive for one 24-hour day, I have got no objection. But you cannot say the days mentioned are 24 hours as well as epochs - You cannot have the cake and eat it, both. If you say it is long period, you solve Point No.1 and 3, the remaining 4 are yet there. If you say the days are 24 hours day, you solve only Point No.5 - the remaining 5 are yet there - It becomes unscientific.

muslim,
first of all you need to stop. Your anger does nothing. i believe, instead of asking people to go re-read the Quran. You yourself need to re-read it. You're starting to go in the wrong direction. Trust me, i've read all your post...you are making mistakes.

to all those others who are trying so hard to de-bunk the Quran, i will show you a verse in Quran
Al-Kafiroon (The disbelievers)
"O disbelievers!
I worship not that which ye worship
Nor will ye worship that which I worship
And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion."

This, my friends, is a thread to ask about islam. How we do our things, what we do and why. By the way, it is easy to misinterpret Quran, cause it has been said, without a sincere heart that thirst to know about Quran and Islam, you will see nothing, no beauty.

I am a muslim girl, who lives in a modern city. I do not live in the middle east.
Do not mistake religion for culture and culture for religion though it is easy to do so.

Same thing in the bible.
Examples (briefly it's late):
Psalms 8:8 - Talks about pathways in the oceans (oceanic currents discovered by Matthew Maury in the 1850's, after he read this verse and wondered what it meant).
Psalms 19:6 - JDescribes the circuit of the sun, not known in biblical times.
Psalms 104:2 - This is one of several verses (also Isaiah 40:22) describing the expansion or "stretching out" of the universe that scientists are just beginning to observe.
Psalms 104:19 and Genesis 1:14 - A year is the time required for the earth to travel once around the sun. The seasons are caused by the changing position of the earth in relation to the sun. A month is how long it takes the moon to revolve around the earth. None of this was known when these were written
Psalms 135:7, Ecclesiastes 11:3, and Amos 9:6 - the water cycle, not fully understood until the 1600's
Job 38:12,14 - A picture is painted of a clay vessel being rotated upon a potter's wheel, an analogy for the earth's rotation. Sadly (and ignorantly) many people who gleefully attack the Bible use this to try to tell us that we think the world is flat! Then they go on their way, convinced they have scored a point in their imaginary game, not even understanding that they didn't know what the verse meant in the first place!!! This is what happens when you attack something you have not made careful study of.
Luke 1:59 - Circumcision is consistently recommended on the eighth day of life for infants (throughout the Bible it is, I mean). Doctors know now this is when the coagulating agent in the blood is at its peak. It declines immediately after this.
Hebrews 11:11 - Reveals that women have a seed (egg) within them for conceiving, this was not even hinted at, at the time. They thought men had the seed and women were just the incubator.
Hebrews 11:3 - Talks about atoms.
Job 38:35 - States that light can be sent and manifested in speech. In the 1800's, we found that electricity and light waves are two forms of the same thing. This is how wireless communication works.
Job 38:7 - The stars emit radio waves, science knows now. This was not even guessed at when this was written.
Ecclesiastes 1:6 - Describes air currents not known of then.
Leviticus 15:13 - Teaches us to wash our hands to kill germs, still the number one advice given by doctors and nurses, based on information that was 100% impossible for the author of Leviticus to have.
Luke 17:34-36 - Says the Second Coming of Christ will happen when some are sleeping and some are working in the field, clearly a reference to the earth revolving, with day and night both happening at the same time, in different parts of the world.
The whole book of Leviticus - If the people had paid attentions to God's commands about cleanliness and sanitation, who knows how many of these people would have been saved. In their ignorance, they thought they knew better and didn't have to listen. Sad.

There's more, lots more, but I am awfully tired now. I hope you look these up, I didn't want to type out the whole verses, as anyone can look them up on the net.

yes texashethergirl the bible has some good stuff, such as the ones u posted and thats cause it comes from God, and it also has some not so true facts and thats cause it has been tampered with because it wasnt meant to be for all times and all peoples, God didnt preserve it because He sent the Quran as His final revelation if only Christians would read the Quran theyll realize this.

So will you admit that there are errors in the Koran, just as in the Bible?



It is absolutely true! Again ...

... The Qur'an is organized into separate chapters called surahs. The order of the surahs, however, does not reflect the chronological order of the Quranic verses, nor does the surah structure reflect the nature of the original Quranic revelation...

The Qur'an was an oral text throughout the lifetime of Muhammad; it was also a fluid text. The complete text resided only in the memories of Muahmmad and his followers. As he added verses and reorganized the text, his followers would rememorize the text in the light of the additions or edits. This means that the Qur'an was a living text during the lifetime of Muhammad. Certain verses revealed to Muhammad were later repudiated by him as "satanic" verses revealed not by Gabriel but by Satan. These verses were expunged from the text that so many had memorized.

After the death of Muhammad, the text of the Qur'an was written down in the caliphate of Abu Bakr. Until 'Uthman, one and only one written text existed. For over a decade after the death of Muhammad, the Qur'an remained primarily an oral text in the memories of the faithful. In Islamic accounts of the history of the Qur'an, this oral text was entirely faithful to the original verses—this is entirely possible, but Western historians generally agree that some corruptions must have produced slight variations throughout the Islamic world. Nevertheless, the military expansion of Islam led to two direct consequences concerning the integrity of the Quranic text. First, large numbers of the faithful were dying out in the various military expeditions. Each time someone died who had the Quranic text memorized, that meant that one copy of the Qur'an disappeared forever. Second, the expansion of Islam swelled the ranks of the faithful. Many of these new converts spoke other langagues and the original Arabic of the Qur'an began to corrupt. Faced with these two threats to the integrity of the Qur'an, 'Uthman orderd a rescension of the text to be made and to serve as the definitive written version of the text. A rescension is a version of a text that is assembled from all the variant versions of that text. 'Uthman, however, relied on two sources: the written text that had been ordered by Abu Bakr and that still existed, and the various oral texts of Muslims who memorized it during the lifetime of Muhammad. In Islamic history, there is no variation between these two sources, so the Uthmanic "rescension" is largely a codifying of a single version of a text. This version, the 'Uthmanic rescension, is the version of the Qur'an that has remained, unchanged, the central holy text of Islam...--Professor Richard Hines

SOURCE: Islamic Studies, Washington State University
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/ISLAM/ISLAM.HTM

And some verses diverge from the originals ...!

Apparent support for their conclusions came from finds made during the restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana'a in Yemen, where labourers working in the roof discovered fragments of Korans that are among the oldest in existence. German scholars who studied the manuscripts discovered that some of the Koranic writing diverges from the authorised version, which by tradition is considered the pure, unadulterated word of God. What's more, some of the writing appears to have been inscribed over earlier, "rubbed-out" versions of the text. This editing supports the belief of Wansbrough and his pupils that the Koran as we know it does not date from the time of Mohammad. Andrew Rippin, professor of Islamic history at the University of Victoria in Canada, and the author of a revisionist history of Islam published by Routledge, said: "The Sana'a manuscripts [are] part of the process of filling in the holes in our knowledge of what might have happened."--Martin Bright, editor of the Observer

You won't provide this information because you can't!



It wasn't just ONE author and you know it! Again ...

WIKI:

... It is almost universally held, among Western scholars, that the character of Dhul-Qarnayn corresponds to Alexander the Great. The reason for this is that the story of Dhul-Qarnayn as described in the Qur'an follows very closely some passages of the Alexander Romance, a thoroughly embellished compilation of Alexander's exploits from Hellenistic and early Christian sources, which underwent numerous expansions and revisions throughout Antiquity and the Middle Ages. Historically, Muslim scholars have endorsed the identification of Dhul-Qarnayn with the Alexander the Great ...

PHANTIS.Com:

... He is also known in Eastern traditions as Dhul-Qarnayn (the two-horned one), because an image on coins minted during his rule seemed to depict him with the two ram's horns of the Egyptian god Ammon (it is believed by historians that the Dhul-Qarnayn mentioned in the Qur'an is Alexander). In north-east India and modern-day Pakistan he is known as Sikander-e-Azam (Alexander the Great) and many male children are named Sikander after him.

REFERENCE.COM:

Dhul-Qarnayn (Arabic ?? ??????? dh? al-qarnayn [ðulqar?najn]), literally meaning "He of the Two Horns", is a figure mentioned in the Qur'an, the sacred scripture of Islam, where he is described as a great and righteous ruler who built a long wall that keeps Gog and Magog from attacking the people of the West. Moreover, he is regarded by some Muslims as a prophet. Historically, Dhul-Qarnayn has been identified as Alexander the Great, and this remains the opinion of most secular historians, while contemporary Islamic scholars are divided on the issue, some identifying him with Cyrus the Great. The epithet was also familiar among the pre-Islamic Arabs, who applied it to at least three different kings.

ANSWER.Com:

The story of Dhul-Qarnayn as described in the Qur'an follows very closely some passages of the Alexander Romance, a thoroughly embellished compilation of Alexander the Great's exploits from Hellenistic and early Christian sources which underwent numerous expansions and revisions throughout Antiquity and the Middle Ages. The Alexander Romance was enormously popular in the Hellenistic world, including Jewish communities, among which Alexander had practically gained the status of a folk hero[3]. Some adaptations containing all the elements of the Qur'anic account can be found in early Hellenistic documents, such as the Armenian recension of the Alexander Romance. Some of the elements of the story (an iron gate constructed by Alexander blocking the passage of Scythian tribes; identification of said Scythians with Gog and Magog) can already be found in Josephus[4][5] and in Saint Jerome, although in fragmented occurrences (see Alexander in the Qur'an for details).

For these reasons the widely accepted view is that the (indirect) model for Dhul Qarnayn is Alexander the Great. The majority of medieval Muslim scholars were happy to identify Dhul-Qarnayn as Alexander. However, some Muslim scholars have asserted that the medieval scholars were mistaken and that Dhul-Qarnayn cannot be Alexander, because Alexander the Great was not a monotheist, while Dhul-Qarnayn should be a God-worshipper and a just ruler, since the Qur'an has brought into prominence these characteristics more than anything else in the quotted passages.

Orientalists, studying ancient Christian legends about Alexander the Great, have come to conclude that the Qur'an's stories about Dhul-Qarnayn closely parallel certain legends about Alexander the Great found in ancient Hellenistic and Christian writings. There is some archeological evidence to identify the Arabic epithet "Dhul-Qarnayn" with Alexander the Great. There is also a long history of monotheistic religions coopting the historical Alexander. This leads to the theologically controversial conclusion that these legends are the source of the story of Dhul-Qarnayn in the Qur'an.

Universally - Most = not ONE!

Oh, I forgot one ...

University of Pittsburgh, Department of Classics
Greek History, Professor José Ernesto Mieres
Tenth textbook reading assignment (Pomeroy chapter XI)
Alexander the Great:

The Koran 18:82 ff: “They will ask you about Dhul-Qarnayn (“the two horned one”, Alexander the Great). Say: ‘I will give you an account of him. We made him mighty in the land and gave him means to achieve all things. He journeyed on a certain road until he reached the West and saw the sun setting in a pool of black mud. Hard by he found a certain people. “Dhul-Qarnayn,” We said, “you must either punish them or show them kindness.” He replied: “The wicked we shall surely punish. Then shall they return to their Lord and be sternly punished by Him. As for those that have faith and do good works, we shall bestow on them a rich reward and deal indulgently with them.” He then journeyed along another road until he reached the East and saw the sun rising upon a people whom We had exposed to its flaming rays. So he did; and We had full knowledge of all the forces at his command. Then he followed yet another route until he came between the Two Mountains and found a people who could barely understand a word. “Dhul-Qarnayn,” they said, “Gog and Magog are ravaging this land. Build a rampart between us, and we will pay you tribute.” He replied: “The power of my Lord has given me is better than any tribute. Lend me a force of men, and I will raise a rampart between you and them. Come, bring me blocks of iron.” He dammed up the valley between the Two Mountains, and said: “Ply your bellows,” And when the iron blocks were red with heat, he said: “Bring me the molten brass to pour on them.” Gog and Magog could not scale it, nor could they dig their way through it. He said: “This is a blessing from my Lord. But when my Lord’s promise has been fulfilled, He will level it to dust. The promise of my Lord is ever true.” (Penguin edition, translated by N.J. Dawood)

References:

Alexander the Great

I. Sources
1. Contemporary to Alexander: none survive.
a. Callisthenes, official historian of the campaigns.
b. the admiral Nearchus.
c. the Cynic philosopher Onesicritus.
d. Ptolemy I of Egypt.

2. Five extant biographies:
a. Diodorus of Sicily (1st cent BC)
b. Pompeius Trogus (1st cent BC) as abridged by Justin
c. Quintus Curtius Rufus (1st cent AD), History of Alexander.
d. Plutarch (2nd cent AD), Life of Alexander.
d. Arrian (2nd cent AD), Anabasis (or Campaign) of Alexander.

3. Recently published cuneiform texts (Mesopotamia).

4. Archaeological evidence throughout Alexander’s route: sites in Macedonia (cities of Pella and Vergina, Royal tomb of Philip II in Vergina), Luxor Temple in Egypt (See Pomeroy Figure 11.5), coins from Babylon (Figure 11.9), etc.

II. Later Sources

6. Rich Mideast tradition of telling the deeds of Alexander, especially by Muslims (manuscript in Pomeroy Figure 11.8, and the Koran 18:82 ff), but also in Persian (today “Iranian”) folk songs, etc.

7. Very rich tradition in the West since the Middle Ages of Alexander biographies. See Pomeroy 398.

Religion in Macedonia throughout the Ages: Alexander the Great in Islam

The correspondence of Alexander the Great with Darius became the basis of ample discussions and considerations in the Islamic world. The exchange of letters between the two men has attracted the attention of the Islamic world and especially of the Persians, since both men had an effect on the history of Persia. In view of the fact that the subject matter was Alexander the Great, a demigod for some, or a full god for others, there are many legends created around his name. He has touched the hearts of the Muslims whether artisans or historians, poets or painters.

In Radat as-saf? (The Garden of Purity) Mir Khvand (or Muhammad ibn Khavandashah, 1433-1498), one of the leading personalities of Islamic Art, offers quasi-apocryphal pieces of correspondence between Darius and Alexander the Great that reminds us of all the legends we probably heard once or twice about the two rivals.

These letters are mentioned by historians such as Arrian, Plutarch, Curtius, Justin, etc. In the Islamic and Indian world the letters were written by Darius Codomanus, and point toward Zul-Qarnayn which means 'Lord of Two Horns', indicating that Alexander was a living deity while a man. In Arabic Alexander is called Iskandar and Sikandar; in the pan-Indian context the name Sikandar and the legend that follows the name, are equally associated with Skanda, the pan-Indian war god and god of Kataragama. Early Islamic historians identify Alexander as Zul-qarnain, "The Two-Horned," who is generally considered to be identical with Alexander the Great of Macedonia and all these historians consider him Greek.

For example, Abdallah Ibn Umar al-Baidawi (d. 716 H/AD 1316) says, "He was Sikandar ar-Rumi, King of Persia and Greece." Also Al-Qastalani, the commentator on al-Bukhari mentions, "Zul-Qarnain was a king named Sikandar, whose wazir (or chancellor) was Khwaja Khadir (Khizr)." The word ar-Rumi in Arabic means "the Greek." The word Rum came about during the time of the Byzantines known also as Romans since Byzantium was the Eastern Roman Empire.

The Quran also includes a Surah number *** called ar-Rum or the Romans meaning the Greeks, while it refers to Heraclius' temporary territorial loss and predicts future victories and gains. However, there is no direct reference of Alexander the Great in the Quran. In Surah XVIII, the Cave , the Quran states only the name of Dhul Qarnayn, which reminds us of Darius' term for Alexander, Zul Qurnayn.--Marcus A. Templar

Alexander the Great links
http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Alexande...#External_links

I'll just leave it at this. You're just going to deny it anyway.

Which Muslim scholars? You refused to provide me with a list and links--save for one name.



HAHAHAHAHA ...! I can't believe you actually said that! Think for yourself?! Sure! I would love to see one of your "Mecca scholars"--or even you--stand up in a mosque or classroom and and give a historical/critical critique of Muhammad/Koran and see what happens. They would string him up in the streets while everyone shouted "Allah be praised!"

First, your "Mecca scholars" are not scholars by any stretch of the imagination. They are intellectually dishonest faith peddlers. Second, you love to focus on just Yusuf when the mainstream articles I posted stated clearly "Universally accepted by most western scholars ... and many Muslim scholars ..."



I am. And I'm also studying the origin and evolution of Islam from an academic/historical standpoint.

Sean

Do you believe in 1 God?
Do you believe in more than 1 God?
A representative God from a council of many Gods?

Either 1 of 3 above plus the teachings of your Mother or Father?

Do you believe that the Aliens made the humans?

Well, Mainpoint, are you going to address this contradiction?




And it also tates:

86:5 So let man consider from what he is created.
86:6 He is created from a gushing fluid
86:7 That issued from between the loins and ribs.

VS:

17:61 And when We said unto the angels: Fall down prostrate before Adam and they fell prostrate all save Iblis, He said: Shall I fall prostrate before that which Thou hast created of clay?

VS:

18:37 And his comrade (Abel?) while he disputed with him (Cain?) exclaimed: Disbelievest in Him Who created thee of dust, then of a drop (of seed), and then fashioned thee a man?

Slight contradiction, yes? Water, a fluid, clay, dust ... Which is it?

Sean

I suppose I had better address this issue before there are any misunderstandings. I would like to categorically state that I am not acting on any hateful basis. I don't hate you, I don't hate Islam and I certainly do not hate muslims whatever their nationality.

Your interpretation of my post is in extreme error, if you think that.

I am not here to be a thorn in your side and to irritate you personally or any other muslim for that matter. I am here to help you explain things about the Quran, things that people who have a hint of intelligence will notice of they read the Quran. Things that cannot be explained away with levity and a smile. If you cannot explain them, very well, say so and be done with it, but let me explain that you are not dealing with school students for the most part and you certainly are not dealing with uninformed people in general.

If you can't explain the hard contradictions we seem to find then how can you make a case for Islam? Don't take this approach as hatred but as a challenge. In the end it is up to you, to respond in the best way.

Another aspect of my motivation is that you were given fair and adequate hearing when you discussed the bible in other topics, and in 99% of the time you refused the explanations given by christians on the apparent contradictions found there, I am not anything if not fair and am giving you the same opportunity to do the same for the Quran as I stated in my previous post, not out of malice as you think but because it stands to reason that if you can explain away, the difficulties I have with the Quran then you will have proved your point, which I believe, is your purpose for being on this forum in any case.

22:47
Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But Allah will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

Yusufali Translation

You see my difficulty, "as you reckon" and "as you number", means the same. It means, as humans see time. There fore the meaning of the verse is clear. As humans see time, a Day for God is like a 1000 years.

The other verse does not have the second part of "as you reckon" but simply states that a day for God is like 50,000 years. But since 50,000 years is still a human measurement of time it is equivalent to the 1st verse that has "as you reckon". Both are human measurements of time and are thus equivalent in meaning and wheight.



10:90-92
Pharaoh ... when the (fate of) drowning overtook him, he exclaimed: I believe that there is no God save Him in Whom the Children of Israel believe ... But this day We save thee in thy body that thou mayst be a portent for those after thee.

I can well understand why you would say such a thing but there are two important items that you seem to have overlooked.

First, there has been no drowned Pharoahs' body found, ever. We don't even know the name of the Pharoah that persued Moses. Historically we cannot place the exodus in Egyptian Chronology and archaeologically, even Moses' existence is in doubt (even if it isn't by me.) And please don't take my word for this, look up Ramses II and the exodus and see what you get. Ramses II is by tradition, the Pharoah of the Exodus, but not by historical fact.

The second point is that the verse says " save thee in thy body ", not preserve thy body, this means that the Pharoahs life was spared, because that is exactly what the verse implies. Another translation states "deliver you with your body", again the same idea is transmitted, either your body is delivered (dead) or, you are delivered with your body (alive).

And again you seem to be speaking for God.

39:4
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.

God says if he wants to, he can do anything at all, even things we consider impossible. Who are we to say different?

6:100-1
Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?

And here we have an example of the Quran denying Gods capacity to do something if he wants. Indeed, how can he have a child?

But who are we to say what God can do or can't do? If the Quran is Gods word as attested by 39:4 how can it then contradict itself by limiting Gods power in 6:100-1?

Either God can do waht he wants how he wants or he can't...



Ok, here I agree with your reasoning.



Well then can you tell me what a jinn is and the difference between an angel and a jinn?

2:34
And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

Pickthal Translation

It seems that Iblis was an angel according to the text above, why would he be grouped with the angels if that weren't so? The text doesn't say angels and jinn, it only says angels and then speaks of Iblis, implying that he was one of them.
__________________________________________

At this point I will end this post on this thread and answer the rest of your comments in a thread where this is more appropriate and on topic.

I will be answering you on the following thread, but not today, check it out tomorrow night.

See: How is Jesus God when he never says he is, Christians, Jesus never said he is God.

I wasn't planning to visit the forum again till next weekend but i see there is a question posted for me. I am not a big scholar so i had to look some information up. I have an english Quranic translation at home.

In order to appreciate these verses one should read the verses before and after.

In addition the simpler(clearer) you think the more you will realize there is no contradiction.

Now before i go on with my explanations again i will tell you guys i am not a scholar and some people may have a better answer than I. Plus i don't want to be quoted in other forums.

Lets 1st see

17:61

Let see the verse before and afterwards

17:59 - 17:64

Nothing prevents Us from sending the signs except that the ancients denied them. We gave to Thamud the she-camel as a manifest sign, but they maltreated her. We do not send signs except to warn. Remember when We said to you: "Your Lord encompasses mankind. We did not make the vision We showed you except as a trial to mankind, likewise the tree cursed in the Quran. We warn them, but that only increases their tyranny".
And when We said to angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam" they all prostrated themselves, except Satan, who said: "Shall i prostrate myself before one You have created from clay"
He said: "Do you see this one whom you honored more than me? If you reprieve me until the Day of Resurrection, I will certainly destroy his progeny except for a few"
He said:"Begone! Whoever of them follows you, Hell is surely your reward, an ample reward" Stir up those of them you can with your voice, rally against them your horsemen and your infantry, share with them their wealth and children and promise them" But Satan makes them only deceitful promises.



There are some things that are quite apparent from these verses some are not. 1 thing that i can gather from these verses that Satan was probably one of Gods closer angels. The other thing i can tell is that satan was pissed. He is probably seeing that he has been Gods servant for God only knows how long and what does he get. Some new creation that is superior to him. He is even ok with hell as long as he takes humanity with him.
Now the wording "You have created from clay" seems to be from an angry satan. He is probably using a derogatory term!!! He is probably considering he comes from superior building blocks

i have little time so ill be brief

look at all these verses together, then go back to your basic science.

Life starts from water. Without water you cant have the biochemical reactions necessary to sustain life. Life also needs dna proteins aminoacids. >>>>>>From molecules comes a single cell then a multicellular organism like man exists !!!!!

I hoped i worded my explanation so most people can understand. Muslim or any other muslims please correct me if there are any textual or other errors.

There arent any errors in the Quran there were some verses which were excluded by Mohammed peace be upon him and I explained to you why. That doesnt mean we have errors in the Quran today.





Yes this is what Im telling you that the suras' order today isnt organized by the time period they were revealed in but we do know when the were revealed and why they just werent orgaized that way to make it easier for the reader!

Why didnt all these sites site one name of a scholar other than yusuf ali? Even so I told u so what if a scholar made a mistake! I dont care if the entire Muslim world believes it is Alexander becase their belief has no bases there isnt one single evidence which can prove this it is simply a theory nothing more nothing less. Its like the comforter Jesus spoke of in the Bible, if one Christian scholar says this is Hitler, even if the entire Christian world believes this, it makes no difference because its just a theory you cant prove it because Jesus never said the word Hitler.




I do because I dont know what they mean by western scholars. Scholars of what? Where are these scholars? Are they even Muslim scholars? And then they say many Muslim scholars and I told u they should have brought a name and even if all muslims believe this I told u so what if Muslims make a mistake its not the Qurans fault, the Muslims interpretation was wrong not the Quran so I dont get why you're making a big deal out of this alexander thing cause in the end the fault is on the Muslims who are human, not the Quran.


One God only, without any partners or equals and He created us.





In the end it depends on how u wish to believe it means, the verse it simply giving a comparisson hence the words "like" so its just comparing human time to Gods time and of course both arent the same.

Well then its a mistake in the translation isnt it? The arabic shows that his body was to be preserved and he died.



You cant limit God right? This is what u said. Now ur limiting Him. God can have a child if He wanted but He cant meaning He wont because it doesnt fit His majesty.




The angels are angels and the jin are like us humans by the fact that they have free will some of them are Christians some of them are Muslims etc, some are good some are bad. The angels are made of light and the jin are made of fire. The jin live here on this earth between us but we cant see them on there natural form we can only see them if theyre disguised i.e as humans or whatever.

Your God Allah orders all of his clergy, imams, scholars, and followers to join in the discussion of the Holy Council of Gods. He requires your appearance and that his wills is represented.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=1544800

im gonna say god did preserve the bible and it will out stand the quran and it will judge the quran ..

I am going to ask Muslim a question.

There is a very clear verse in Quran that says anything you catch from sea is halal then why is that some people say certain type of seafood you cant eat. I can understand avoiding clams or oysters as they they actually arent caught from sea they are just lying on the beach but what about certain species of crabs and lobsters that only exist underwater and are caught at sea.

Regards

Dear Muslim and my Fellowmen,



Could you please give your comments on what I posted entitled "Is the Qu'ran from the true God?"

Do you accept that the Qu’ran was revealed by the angel Gabriel to Muhammad? Why was it not God who directly revealed the Qu’ran to Muhammad? Why through an angel? Is that angel really Gabriel? The angel Gabriel is from God. The angel that rebelled against God is Lucifer who was expelled from Heaven.

Please describe the Islamic heaven.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo

I hope you dont mind if i answer cause your question is really simple.
Everything you catch from sea is Halal except creatures that does not meet the requirements.
It has been mentioned that non-halal foods are creatures that:
- Eats things like faeces. Pigs are an example here.
- Creatures that live in "two worlds" which would rule out some crabs because some crabs are able to live above and underwater. Another examples are frogs.
- Most importantly, creatures that are known to eat humans are not halal. Therefore removing man-eating sea creatures from the list.
- Creatures that are fed non-halal food.

Other than that, people avoid food because they want to. I don't think seafood allergies skips Muslims
In my best knowledge, as long as those crabs and lobsters exist solely underwater and dies when it is removed for a prolonged period from the water would be halal. To me, sea snails are just dead disgusting and i dont think it's nice if a host serves sea snails and you tell them you are not eating it cause it's disgusting. Normally i'll just say it's not halal and run away.

During the massive tsunami here in asia, loads of bodies disappeared in the ocean. I've seen alot of my muslims brother and sister avoid seafood for a while (so did i). Some have still not continue eating seafood. Dead bodies = food to the fishes and you can't really tell which fishies have eaten dead bodies so you avoid it for the time being.

Oh by the way, like i have mentioned before, don't mistake culture for religion. My culture have said that my family bloodline are not allowed to eat stingrays but well, we still eat them...they are halal and delicious after all. Just matter of principle i guess *shrug*

So in other words we are speaking about a metaphor?



How can it be a mistake in the translation? All the translations into english transmit the same idea! 3 different translators can't all make the same mistake and be allowed to print a mistake of this kind unless the arabic is also saying the same thing. 1 translator can make a mistake, but 3?



So he could have a child if he wanted, this is what you said? You then are limiting him by stating that he won't or can't because it doesn't fit his majesty. So now you presume to speak for God on what he is to do with his majesty?



2:34
And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

Can you tell me please what Iblis did so wrong that he became a disbeliever? Since God only asked the angels to prostrate themselves and not the jinn where was Iblis' rebellion?

As you said, Iblis was not an angel, so why should he have prostrated himself before Adam? God didn't ask him to prostrate himself before Adam.

It doesn't make sense for God to be angry with Iblis, if Iblis wasn't an angel.

Is God unjust in his punishment? How do you know that God won't get irritated with you at some point without cause, and send you to hell, no matter how good you were or how many good deeds you performed?

If he could do it to Iblis, he can do that with anyone!

Also I have answered your accusations relating to the bible as I prmised. It took alot longer than I was expecting since I had to do alot of research into the matters you talked about, in post 228.

I also said that I would be posting the reply in another thread more suited to the discussion because if I posted it here it would disrupt this thread and cause it to become off-topic. Be so kind as to follow the link I have provided.

See:How is Jesus God when he never says he is, Christians, Jesus never said he is God.

So they have been taken out of context? If yes, then please provide the correct contextual interpretation of said passages. Does the meaning change? If so, how?

86:6 He is created from a gushing fluid
86:7 That issued from between the loins and ribs.

VS:

17:61 And when We said unto the angels: Fall down prostrate before Adam and they fell prostrate all save Iblis, He said: Shall I fall prostrate before that which Thou hast created of clay?

VS:

18:37 And his comrade (Abel?) while he disputed with him (Cain?) exclaimed: Disbelievest in Him Who created thee of dust, then of a drop (of seed), and then fashioned thee a man?

Contradiction? Water, a fluid, clay, dust ... Which is it?

Now, just so you know, I took nothing OOC and was thinking quite clearly. The verses I posted clearly contradict each other.

Sean

Firstly, these dont have to be cntradictions. They are different stages of the creation of man. And as different stages naturally the stages have to differ.

As for

86:6 He is created from a gushing fluid
86:7 That issued from between the loins and ribs.

This is the response. The problem is that with the translations when translating things which have to do with science the translator many times does a mistake especially since in the Arabic language one word can have up to tens and tens of meanings.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/muni...on_rebuttal.htm

As for the other verses this is a nice article which basically explains what I said that they ar