One day while surfing the web I found the book on cults and my faith was right smack in the middle .

They had old Herbert Armstrongs picture right in the midde of the front cover he was surrounded by the Morman guy and a jw guy . and who ever else they said fit . But Old Herbert was Right in the Middle .

I was a little offended as here they was running old Herbert down to the Lowest worst cult leader of them all , I did not even know he was my leader .

So I Wrote them and Told them it was easy to pick on dead men but i was a real live armstrongite (they call me) And I would defend our doctrine .

They wrote me back and said Don't ever contact us again .


So I Guess im a Cult member .

So I See muslim and preacher Bob doing this so I thought some might like to Ask what its like to be a Cult member .

Will i be drinking any koolaid ? Any space ships coming for me ? you know that type stuff .

Given that you were not even aware of your cult member status until recently, how good a source of information on cults are you?

Well I been one 14 years I must know by now what its like .


you think i got some surprises coming I don't have figgured out ?

I have a question - my parents were once WCG members. They were telling me a while back that the Churches of God, to which you obviously belong, believe that for every year a minister studies at Pasadeina College (their minister-training facility), the pastor has 7 1/2 times the Holy Spirit as the lay person. This was never written into church doctrine, but was a commonly held belief amongst the members, and propagated by the ministry. I'm wondering if there is any biblical basis behind such a belief, and if not, why would they hold such a belief in the first place?

I come from a Christian Reformed Church background, which focuses heavily on biblical teachings, and I've never heard of such of a thing being mentioned in the Bible - along with my pastors. The Bible instead teaches that those who have the Holy Spirit have the Fruits of the Spirit, and everyone has a unique combination of the gifts of the Holy Spirit - preaching and leadership are two of those. Pastors certainly have a greater amount of those particular gifts of the Holy Spirit, but not necessarily more of the Holy Spirit itself. Just as the different parts of the Trinity have complimentary purposes, so it is with the Body of Christ - we each have our own roles to play, but one gift is not better than another. The three parts of the Trinity are all equally God and One, and we are all different parts of the Body, but the Body is all one.

Hope this helps a little.

-Uraeus

I never heard that teaching before .
I never came in through the world wide .I came in through the Church of God International (which was the group Garner Ted Started in the late 70s after his Father expelled him) .

Gta was very honest of the wrongs of the world wide and use to mention about every place where they was wrong . I never heard him mention that doctrine ,I've heard him state their could be men of God out there with nothing to Do with world wide or ambassodor colledge that God could of called into the work.

He beleaved in many that was being worked with by God outside of World wide .

World wide was a dictatorship , Church of God international was not .

Garner use to say dictators don't spawn dictators .

I did go to 2 services in world wide after being in the church a few years to see what truth was . After most the ministers left that held to the orginal beleafs . It was not the Same . The minister would not shake my hand . The service was very boring (usally GTAs crowd was very good speakers) . the world wide one left was very boring .

I'm sorry never heard of that doctrine ,It may of existed in world wide . Or maybe some corrupt minister in the field came up with it to explain being a dictator .

There is a formula Nova for the WCC putting organizations into cult status. Pretty much it starts with the trinity and moves on from there.. All the modern day preachers who have been labled "word of faith" preachers are heretics as well. Even though faith is the fundamental doctrine of the book of Romans, go figure. But you are in good company. Men like John G. Lake, Smith Wigglesworth. John Dowie, Charles Parham, and many others who kicked off the denominational blinders and started their own minitries that went around the world with the dead being raised and every miracle under the sun following which even the goverment documented, were all considered heretical or cults in their day. I take no offense to my cult status, hell, I wear it as a badge. Mainstream christianity has given up on their authority and power base, this is why John 14:12 is a dead verse to them, they do not see their restored status as sons of God with power and authority. Thanks to guys like Hank Hanegraaf they want a Christianity that is PC, timid and weak rather than a body of believers who are power filled sons of God with authority to tread on evil principalities that are still in the world. Jesus Christ himself was labled as a cult leader, why are you so special that you want to be accepted by the confusion of the WCC?

Moondoggy if i was accepted id Worry .

I guess world wide is accepted now as mainstream.


Never in the history of organised religion has a church done what world wide did .

I mean if thack thought their teachings was off why not just go join the nearest baptist church ? why would he pretend to be one . preaching the doctrines till he got the reigns then denouce it and return to mainstream and distroy the church and scatter the brethren .


If he wanted to be a baptist why not just go be a baptist .

If i was to go to a Baptist church i would tell them I was different . I would not become one of them till i got goverment then denouce every teaching they had . They even tried to Make printing Herberts Books Illeagal .

Can you Imagine Herbert Arstrong resurected Early and seeing what they did to world wide ? you would hear some yelling in Passadena California

Is the worldwide church of god and the church of god the same thing?

I have a cousin who goes to a church of god, and are instructed not to watch televangelists on tv because the only preaching they should hear is from their minister, since they are the only church that is going to heaven.

Many use the Name Church of God inclueding penticostal type churches .

When I refer to the Church of God I refer to the Called out individuals of this earth that have recieved Gods Spirit .Where they all are I CAN NOT TELL YOU I do relise their maybe some popping out of their communities in places i don't know about . In countries all over the world . I really don't know where all the church is and when I Go into chat lines or forms i always meet people that are church of God friendly or even who are church of God who never touched the world wide or any of its off shoots . You always meet some that seem to be being used by God and friendly to the church if not part of the church.

I do though beleave in my own opinion that the break off groups from the world wide church of God do hold in their memberships many of the real saints of this earth . Are all the christians in these groups I don't think so . And their is some in other churches that I beleave may have eyes and just need a little push to be awakened .

For me to spot a individual that does have God useing them at this time I expect to see them have a above average ability to spot the truth . The real Holy spirit will convict them to know truth if put in front of them. Their may be some that don't see now but will see later when this world builds to a climax .

I myself admit I don't beleave most Christian churches are from God . I do though suspect inside their memberships are sincere people . And also people that can smell truth . I expect people being lead by Gods spirit now to be willing to truely submit themselfs to Gods will and his law . They do understand repentance .
They will Get baptised and have hands laid on them at some point and live a life of submitting to God and his laws.


Will I watch other Christian teachers on TV ? Yes But not in a serious Way most of them to me is like the WWF or wrestling is to sports . Just a side shows in my opinion . The audience might be sincere but mislead .
I have no fear of watching other churches but most the time chose not too .Sometimes I Do learn something from false prophets in my opinion but id only watch the real knowledgefull ones the second time.Most sunday morning evangilist would never interest me in the least .

When it gets real hard is inside the church of God as yes we have some goats that come feed with us . But I can tell you getting too know real saints is worth a little grazing with goats . The real sheep really are wonderfull people and I at this time do know they exist . Where they all are I don't Know . But I think a few did flock behind GTA .

Apostolic's have been labeled as a cult as well. i agree with ya on most christains churchs not from god..look at their fruits .but whats funny is the ppl doing the labeling.. they have no idea.

If you had to put your churchs main ideas down, say in a 100 words or less, what is it that differnetiates your churches beliefs from any other christian church?

Nova,

Could you tell me more about something you said to muslim awhile ago, relating to the day Jesus died and the day he was ressurected. Tradition has this as Friday and Sunday but you said Wednesday and Saturday, could you elaborate?

It had something to do with muslim saying that Jesus didn't actually stay dead 3 days, if that helps. I've searched for the particular post but can't seem to find it.

We Really Repent .

Repenting = turn away from sin

sin = transgression of the law

Not saying I never sin , But I beleave in not sinning and should have a desire to repent when I do Sin .

Also We preach the gospel of the kingdom and beleave the church is the kings and priest of The future . We accept Christ sacrifice to cover our transgressions of the law , we after baptism have the laying on of hands for the recieving of the Holy Spirit . Which we beleave is the Mind of Christ and will lead us to Obey God .


I guess the Big one is we don't beleave God is trying to Save All men now hes only choseing the future goverment now and judgeing them now . Not a Second Chance But a Chance for every body . Only those with the holy spirit are getting that chance now . the church is only the spring harvest or the harvest of the first fruits.

The church of God rejects Easter and also Christmas and other days modern christians keep .We reject them as we think they are really unholy days Christianised and are nothing but lies .

The church of God keeps the Holy days that are found in your bible . We beleave Christ was the Passover or replaced the passover Lamb .
The year Christ died the passover would of been on a wednesday .The first day of unleaven bread fell on a thurday the first day of unleaven bread is a holy day or a high sabbath . Modern christianity has taken a friday death because they have forgotton the high sabbaths of the bible .
We beleave easter is not really christian but its a pagan festaval thats been drug into christianity that actually honours Ishtar the goddess of sex and fertility (eggs and bunny rabbits are symbuls of sex and fertility) .
We fear God and keep our distance from pagan festavals .

We beleave the true holy days are the roadmaps to the real plan of God every one has a deep hidden meaning .By accepting Pagan Holy days that God never ordaned confusion sets in and you end up hundreds of christian faiths . The holy days of the Bible are layered in meaning . For exsample the unleaven bread of the days of unleaven bread = Christ the sinless man . Ye must put leaven out = ye must put sin out . ye must eat unleaven bread = You must take Christ in . So i know with out a doubt a christian has to put the sin out of his life as its the hidden meaning of the days of unleaven bread . you can see the new testament church keeping the real holy days in scriptures like 1st corth.5 : 7-8

Nothing "cult-ish" about that. I wouldnt let it bother you to much. Its when no-one criticizes/catagorizes your clut/religion, that you need to worry.



Let me be the first to call for a Jihad.



Its also the only church their minister can accept donations through. Televangelists are the biggest cons around.

One of trademarks of a Church of God TV or radio show is they will never ask for money . All litature or tapes is always free . The church of God don't beleave in asking the public for money or begging on tv .

The gospel should be there for the poor also and nobody will ever be charged for tapes or litature .

If you set and watch sunday tv evangilist you will see a few shows that will not ask for money .

Herberts show years ago called the world of Tomorow never asked the public for money .

Garner Ted Armstrongs Never Asked for Money .

The program the Living Church puts on Rod Merrideth never ask for money .

The key of David or Gerald Flurry never ask for Money .

Its not in our beleafs to beg from the public .

Garner teds Church never asked for Tiths from its members it beleaved in tithing but never policed it or even asked members not tithing why they wasn't . They leave it to God to chastise his children if its needed . They may tell them the right way but thats as far as it goes .

I have recieved many tapes or litature from branches of the church of God i personally have never sent a cent too . They will send it for years and never ask for money .
Its a church of God Beleaf not to beg the public leave it too God .

Paranoid Andriod Can I ask you what happened to your parents ? Did they leave the church all together ?

Or are they in one of the many break off groups ?

Like I say I don't know all of what went on in world wide I do know alot of false ministers seemed to be spread through it . A friend of mines parents was actually kicked out I can't even remember why . They never returned to a Church of God But kept the passover alone every year .

My parents did leave the Worldwide Church of God and for a while spent time with the Global Church of God, United CHurch of God, and International Church of God. In the end, none of them suited what they wanted and so they and a few close friends from the churches just stopped going altogether and instead met up every now and then for lunch/dinner at one of their houses.

Worldwide Church of God, though now fairly mainstream, back when it first started had a very interesting view of the Bible (one I obviously do not agree with, being a fairly mainstream protestant myself). The focus of the church was on the coming Kingdom of God, with a heavy emphasis on works. I'm not sure what their official stance on Jesus Christ is, but I do know they pretty much ignored him (I don't ever recall hearing about him anywhere in the church - indeed, the first I heard of him was in the latter stages of my first year of high school, and it seemed like just another way people had invented to get to god (I was agnostic at the time).

Anywho, in many respects, the beliefs of the WCG fall more in line with Judaism than Christianity (my dad took that "which religion are you" quiz, and was found to be 100% Orthodox Judaism. As I said, they do believe in Jesus, though because of their focus on works and the coming Kingdom of God, that little fact seems to be lost entirely somewhere along the lines.

Hope that helps, and if anyone else ahs questions. I'm not sure what more I can say though, I don't really remember much of church doctrine, never having believed it or even gone to church that often - my parents never forced me there. WHat I know of them, I learnt after becoming Christian and interested in religions and discussed it with them.

Regards, PA

Well as far as Jesus we actually beleave in him more then mainstream as we beleave Jesus was God in the old testiment. We beleave he was the creator .

I guess instead of the God of the old testiment being found to have a Son ,we beleave its more like the God of the old testament revealing he had a Father or a God that made him God over all things .

So we very much beleave in Jesus and we do Accept his Saccrifice to cover our transgressions of the Law . We beleave at this point Jesus is our High priest setting to the Right hand of the Father .

We beleave God is a Family of a Father and a Son but its the Son who was the spokesman our the one that deals with man.

So A muslims Allah would be Christ , A jews Old testament God is Christ . Christ was made God of this earth by his Father who will someday show to be our God after Christ has judged all men . Christ came to reveal the Father .


So it don't sound like your parents left the faith sounds like they just went independent . I actually meet with a group thats Independent at this time . My children are not in the faith ,my oldest daughter does respect it very highly and I beleave will someday maybe get baptised . My other 2 children at this time don't seem to be interested . Id like to see them have more of a interest . Nobody can force the Faith on a other though maybe i could of taught them better when they was young . Or maybe they just wasn't called .

As a church of God person we really would like to see the children in the faith (and may blame ourselves a little if they are not) but we don't worry about them if they are not . As we beleave they still could recieve salvation in the great white throne judgement if they are good boys and girls and most the time they are .

Sounds like your Parents trouble was the human element of the church and the goverment some set up .

GTA or the church of god international really was different then his Father ,he really was not a dictator . It was always open door policy . He did not beleave in throwing people out .
The world wide did become a mess And i Beleave they even went so far as putting a false minister in the goverment with the power .

World Wide is now a disgrace I'd be so Ashamed . I do Hope there is Not Sheep Feeding with them Goats.


Of the offshoot Groups today Phillidelphia in my opinion is a dictatorship they actually make me nervous and are like the right wing extreem group for those that like to be dictated i guess .

Living is kind of a ditatorship but i do have alot of respect for them ,merrideth can actually preach almost as good as GtA could lol .

United is more Liberal and the biggest with lots of international work on the go . I got to respect them in a lot of ways mostly because they seem to have the best follow up ministry .

The independents are there for all the hurt brethren that just got angry at all the goverment a man tried to put into Gods church . They do their share of work .

GtA I guess you probly know was the most contraversial subject on the Go . Most the Brethren heard his voice first he certainly Did have the Gift of Gab . Seemed to Stumble at Times . Also he was one of the few that would ever stand up and Say his father was wrong at times . He knew his Father was Human . He knew from his own Stumbling that he wasn't perfect either it kept him humble .
I did find the brethren that stuck it out with him was the Most forgiving of all the sheep . They could over look a few things and forgive . They understood That Satan could pick on a mans weaknesses . They understood it was truth coming out of his mouth and maybe he was repenting . they also watched his own family and how they very much loved him and chose the path he went (So was he really that bad?).He was such a wise speaker .
So many groups ,so scattered is the Power of the Holy people now . I guess we just had to prove we wasn't a cult .
I guess God had to Show his people never had a Human Leader like them their Catholics Do !

Yeah man it's all true

The Church of God fits the Cult definition less then any other church or religion on this earth . The scattering proved it .





Now if you was Satan where would you hide the true church of God?

Right smack in the middle of the book of Cults be a good place?

Some cults makes one reject their family if they are not member has your cult ever pushed you to do that?

I have seen that happen in one in particular. My definition of a cult in when they operate control mechanisms. It can be said anything has some control mechanism to it. From elementary school to our Jobs. But the kind I am talking about is like you said. They tell you who you can hang ou with and talk to and even alienate your family. Heaven's Gate was the last scary one I remember. Man, oh man are people gullable.

No We beleave in Strong Family relations ,The feast of Tabernacles is one of the best things a family could experience together . This year i'm letting my youngest daughter plan the feast Site . Shes been planing hard ,Got her boyfriend going , wants friends along . Shes been emailing ministers in far away areas trying to find the best feast site . It truely is a Family thing Has Christmas beat by a long Shot . My youngest never experienced Christmas . They don't seem to mind it though .

I do have to say becoming Church of God did bring alot of trouble in my family. Its the weirdest thing you could ever hear about .

My father use to tell me when I was a boy that Sunday was not the Sabbath Saturday was . I never ordered a booklet fromthe church of God my father ordered them and when i was on my way to the ocean my mother would slip one in my bag .
(A trawler Captain does alot of reading as the job consist of setting at the wheel for days and only getting a few hours sleep . Most the time tows are 3-6 hours long and if no boats are around much you usally set back with a book . Untill You Fetch up in Bottom lol . The big high powered ones hardly ever catch they just tear the humps off bottom .)
My Father use to tell me if you Do one thing in your Life ,Read Herbert Armstrongs Auto Biography . I never really had much of a interest in religion when i was young . I was actually known for wild partying . Id land in many ports with trips of fish and it would be some wild partys . Its what i was mostly Known for . As the years went by i Did start haveing a Interest in Religion and I desired to read Books on religion . I did look at a few Other faiths (use to go to ministers houses get them to show me what they beleaved and why) . But it Was the Armstrongs teaching i Seen in the bible , Could see them very clearly . My father actually encoraged me on this Path .
About 14 years ago I decided I Had to Get baptised so i had to fly 3000 miles to get baptised as there was no ministers in all eastern Canada that I knew was really from God . I was gone a couple weeks .

When I Came Home my Father then hated me . became my worst enemy . we would enter into scripture arguements (he knew his bible ,but id always come out on top). He then tried to Argue Sunday was the Christian Sabbath . He joined A faith i Call seed of Satan . He told me one time he Could Join any faith on Earth accept My Faith . It pretty well distroyed my whole family .
He ended up just taking off and we don't even know where he is Now just get a card in the mail sometimes o let us know hes alive . He just started hateing me tried many things to distroy me .

I think i Know what Christ meant when he Said a Mans Foes would be they of His own Household .