The thing that gets me is this. Anyone with a different view to the regular ( i have posted 30000 replies and most are just to put you down because i dont agree with your view) person gets just that. Most people on here would like to say they are open minded but get caught out in the i`m open minded but now i have learnt stuff and what i know has to be the truth. You generally dont get a debate you get either

A: i agree
B: That was a load of crap
C: Are you on drugs

My point is that its easy to think you know everything ( The 30000 replies people ) But give other people your thoughts on things and not just dismiss anything different.

Anyway i wont be posting anything again as no doubt a lot more stupid comments will follow now

Well you cant really generalize everybody that has a high percentage of posting that do that. I've seen such things go on by people that have less than 500 posts. Granted, I am quite new myself, and have never had this done to me, then again; I stay out of highly controversial issues . I hope you dont leave, though.

Sorry i didnt mean to offend genuine people like yourself, but it would be nice if others would listen with an open mind and not just think that their knoledge is the right knoledge and only knoledge.

You didn't offend me . You just got realize everybody has a different opinion, some may voice it more cynically than others. If somebody ever says your posts are a load of crap, or asks if you are on drugs; just call them on it and tell them to explain why they think that with nothing else added to it.

Another thing, this is just a forum . Try not to take things to heart .

You posted 30,000 replys?

He was saying those with 30000 posts, not 30000 people

30,000 posts?

It boils down to common sense. The reason most of the threads here are frowned upon and put down is because they're either outright lies, delusions, can be easily explained or based on ignorance.

The ones doing the putting down are open-minded...they're just not as gullible as the ones making the outrageous claims would like them to be.

I hate to break it to you but this is the nature of people everywhere.

We hold on to our stupid ill-informed opinions even in the light of overwhelming
evidence that we are wrong. When you get right down to it we form our opinions
with very little evidence and then to show how strong we are we simply refuse to
change them. Most opinions are formed at a young age and are based more on
our world view than on facts. Everyone thinks he's an idiot but everyone else is
really smart. Of course in real life none of us are smart and would do well to keep
this in mind just about all the time. We'll still make the same stupid mistakes but
we can limit the effects.

In a few years we'll all get an eye-opener when machine intelligence is invented.
A computer with an IQ of about 5 will think circles around all of us.

BINGO!

This has nothing to do with history,

I wouldnt say they are that open minded... because if they were they wouldnt be putting anyone down at all. I mean if it all boils down to common sense then why is it common sense to then put down another who you dont believe. Like is that really sensible?..

Common maybe.

I would say that I would want someone to prove their claims....does that make me unsensible?

This was more a rant at the ignorent and thankyou all that have replied possitively, just wish more people were like you. I know life is there to be discussed its the one way thinking people that get to me. can i end this post somehow as yes its also probably in the wrong forum sorry

Where is the piss and moan about how life is forum?

Hey, anyone can be wrong. Just trying to keep an open mind and
trying to see things from other people's perspective puts you a leg up.

Stick around.

I agree with you but it was a load of crap and you may be on drugs

Moved to a more appropriate category. Not exactly 'piss & moan' about life's disappointments, mind you, more an all purpose section for anything that doesn't fit anywhere else. Guess it will have to do.

I'm with you Magik......ummm did you forget something?

It's natural for some to automatically ask hard questions when confronted with something that might be out of the norm for them.From what I have seen so far on the forums,many ask the questions which need to be asked...but which are commonly construed as being completely negative and/or as put-downs.

I do keep an open mind as much as possible,as many others here do (from what I've seen so far)...yet the one thing that bothers me the most is when some people post things from websites or authors which do not have the proper credentials in regard to the subject matter being discussed or to be discussed.

Believe me,I know how you feel...but I also feel that it would be worth sticking around the forums for a while.I hope that you do so.

I'm sure I'm one of the people that irritate you. Keep in mind though, when people are serious about mysteries (like the ones often presented here) and someone pops on with a freshly made account howling in all caps "OMG I SAW A DEMON IN MY TOILET BLAH BLAH BLAH" it's hard not to throw out the BS flag. (Or release the monkeys as I like to say).

Also, when someone presents theory, speculation, or belief as FACT, it's hard not to throw out the flag.

When someone does throw out the flag, and all the psi-ball kiddies hoot and howl about "debunkers" not having a clue, and how they don't have to prove anything, it's hard to hold our debunking tongues.

It's not that we are all close-minded (except Gator ). Some of us just refuse to believe a thing just because it's on the web, or been repeated a thousand times (like global warming).

exactly im here visiting this site to gain more knowledge and debate different issues, not to be attacked and belittled by the ignorent few. Thankfully all the comments have been positive, and yes moondoggy i do frequently take drugs, i dont personally see this as a bad thing as they have certainly opened my mind more to what is going on in the world. Thats probably another topic tho........

Someone reports an encounter with an unknown entity.
No one asks you to believe it. No one objects to your considering all the following.
1. It is possible he is lying for reasons of his own.
2. It is possible he is delusional and his experience is due to serious psychological problems.
3. It is possible he is ignorant and has misunderstood perfectly normal and common phenomena.
4. It is possible he is simply reporting events as they happened.
What is objected to and questioned is when you call a person a liar or claim to somehow know that the event he is discribing did not take place.
I question the intelligence of anyone who claims to be able to distinguish between these possibliities simply by reading a posting.
Is anyone here so knowledgeable about paranormal phenomena that they can say they know, beyond a doubt, the absolute limits of what mysterious phenomena may or may not occur? If so, please enlighten the rest of us as to where we can obtain such knowledge.
And please do not mention common sense. That would be the height of stupidity. Am I wrong or is this site for the purpose of examining things that don't appear to jive with common sense. To come to such a site and reply to each report "nonsense, that doesn't make sense" sort of lacks sense itself.
Disbelive if you wish, question it in the finest detail, but to claim to know the person is lying? Please provide the evidence you ask of them. What evidence do you have they are lying? You don't believe them? Their report conflicts with your world view? Well hell, you 've got me there. That's enough to convince any jury.
I personally find such people obnoxious and presumptuous. I, of course, could be wrong so if one of you could please explain to me the foolproof method you use to spot the liars I am more than willing to admit my error and apologize.
And if you cannot, then maybe you should consider getting off your high horses. The thin air seems to be affecting you reasoning abilities. :-)

No..(depending on whats claimed I guess)..but it depends on how you ask. Like if you are somewhat putting people down at the same time as asking a question, then you arnt really asking for the answer as much. Just more for the other reason.

Go to 1up.com (video game site) and try to voice an opinion about anything...its a constant flame fest over there where everybody yells at everybody for no reason.

1up.com makes Um look like a church full of puppies.

I don't agree with you, so you must be on drugs

Mmm hmm.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."

/petition

We need a Piss and Moan section, damnit!

The posters I don't like are the ones that are obviously trying to sell you something. "You need to try this new cactus needle oil extract!!!! It will give you the body of a eighteen year old and it can revive dead birds!!!" Then they point you at some quack website. So you look around using Google, then find that almost everyone thinks it is trash, so you post, "Hey, everyone thinks this product is trash." Then all of a sudden you are close minded and attacking people who are trying to help. That is the people who burn my biscuits. If you're one of them, then you'll likely get under my skin too.

Like Manfred said, showing good proof is the best way to win people over. Then they will post stuff like "Good Find!!!" and calmly discuss the issues with you.

One must remember that the opinions of those who spout "You're on drugs!" or "What an idiot!" are just as valid as anyone elses.


They're just kinda rude. Getting offended or not is your own business. (This wasn't particularly meant for the OP or anyone really. Just a public service announcement )

Nah. Those comments originate in ignorance, and as such are not valid.
Yes, they are rude. It is also rude and ignorant to berate another's commentary when more information is required, but the "skeptic" is unwilling to do the research.
The simple request that a "skeptic" read a book or do an experiment is not obnoxious: it IS obnoxious for the "skeptic" to continue asking "where's the proof" when he/she will not or cannot read or do the research. This does not exclude anyone, myself included.
I feel it is necessary to prove to myself something can or cannot be; it is my opinion that others should do the same, and not fall back on some proverb as proof.
Troy was a myth.
Nuclear bombs can't possibly work.
Et cetera.

No, there isn't any 'validity' or even a justification for antagonistic statements like those. They're unproductive and derisive and belie a disregard for intelligent and civil discussion. Serious debates depend on the presentation of rational and unrefutable evidence or viewpoints, not the utterance of perfunctory and/or thoughtless comments.

Okay... I forgot the sarcasm smiley.

I also didn't say that the comments were valid or nice or anything. I said the opinions were valid, and then two people translated that into me saying that people should be allowed to insult other people.... No wonder people get agravated.


The opinions.... as far as opinions go and not in the controlled environement of a moderated forum..... are perfectly valid. No, not nice, but people are sure allowed to have them if they want. While I believe (my opinion ) that being ignorant and making comments from that standpoint is not the thing to do, how can I say that others can't do it? In general.... not in forum-land....

Excellent point. But shouldn't such people be countered with questions such as 'I've checked 47 sites and every one list this item as garbage. Do you have information they do not have? Do you receive a percentage of the sales?. and most importantly 'Have you considered you might be experiencing a placebo effect?'
The final question allows that the person is simply reporting the event as it happened and until someone can explain why that is not possible then there is no justification for calling them a liar, druggie, or delusional.
The idea is to have intelligent, civil discussions and leave the insults and name calling to the high-schoolers.
Manfred quotes "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." But no one is suggesting anyone blindly believe and accept. There is a difference however between 'I'll need more evidence before I can accept that ' and 'You lying delusional drug crazed idiot'
I offer a quote now for consideration "Absence of proof is not proof of absence"
The idea of rejecting a paranormal encounter because the people involved did not happen to have their polaroids at the ready or that it is somehow part of a plot that there were not several hundred people with them in their bedroom or on their picnic to witness the event just seems a little pushy to me.
It is possible to disagree, to doubt, to challenge, without becoming insulting or making claims as outrageous as the original post itself. When I hear someone tell a poster they are a liar I always want to ask how long they have been psychic or how long they have been talking to God. I even, at times, want to tell them I 'think' they are lying. That they do not really 'know' the person is lying. They are just guessing. But I fight down the urge to ask for 'proof' of this extraordinary claim. The lack of civility usually being shown at this point makes me aware of what type of people I am dealing with and so I'll usually just move on, not wishing to become the subject of bathroom grafitti (The ultimate debate clincher)
So once more. My original question.
Can anyone reveal their secret method for determining, without possibility of error, when a poster is lying?
And now my problem
There is a certain mysterious phenomena I am interested in. I would like to hear about anyone's encounters with this kind of phenomena. I thought this would be the proper logical type of site to ask on.
But now I am left wondering how many people who have encountered this phenomena will not respond, not report it becase they did not get pictures, have witnesses or are aware it runs contrary to most people's 'accepted' ideas of the paranormal.
I was not worried about liars. There are many people faking UFO pictures but that has not stopped UFO researchers. Nor has the fact that many turn our to be perfectly natural phenomena. These are problems that come with the territory. It is the reports not made because of fear of ridicule that one cannot work around.
So while you are all so worried about one little kid trying to claim he is a vampire (You say 'That's nice' and move on. You don't have to discuss it with him) and are determined to drive him off this site reserved for serious mature discussion, how many people who have had an experience resulting in their saying 'My god, this is absolute insanity' have you discouraged from ever posting here?
Consider the possibility your attempts to 'save us' from these dangerous dreaming kids may be doing more harm then good. I have a book home all about science and the principles that guide it and one is that nothing should be rejected on an a priori basis of absurdity. Isn't it ironic that science can take that view but people on an Unexplained Mysteries site demand that all reports of mysterious events must make sense?
Hey this ranting stuff is fun! Is that why you do it?

Brilliantly put puck if only i hadnt taken so many drugs my vocabulary might have been able to produce my thoughts more accuratly than i have previously.

is that the sarcasm smiley Ops!

When I read a post that I don't agree with, I try to intelligently argue why. I can see how some people think it's just easier to say "You're on drugs" or "You're an idiot". To me, it shows that they haven't really thought out their argument. It's okay to think that someone is incorrect, it's far better to know why you think it!

This is one thing that I like about UM, it makes me think about what I know/believe. Then I have to take that & make it an intelligent post. I will admit that I've read some posts, thought that it was insane, but couldn't come up with a valid argument. Did I slam the person for having a different view? No, I thought about it and either posted later or just left it to someone else to counter the view. Not because I was afraid, but because I didn't know enough about the subject.

My rule of thumb is: If you can't make an intelligent argument, don't make one. And if you can't make such an argument don't slam someone else's thoughts. To me, the person who says negative comments about another member doesn't really belong here. This is a place to learn, discuss and exercise your ability to debate. Like I was raised: If you can't play nice, you can't play.

although, it's hard to have a serious discussion when the post begins with "the other day while on was this trip/smoking weed..."

Thank you for your post, Marley. I have had the same experience, and have commented about this several times. I even reported the posts to a couple mods who were online at the time, and I heard nothing back. One mod told me he found nothing wrong with a member who posted that he thought the thread was "Stupid." It's this kind of stuff that really makes me upset.

Don't worry, Marley; please keep posting. I found out you can use the ignore feature to put these inconsiderate people on "Ignore." I know SaRuMan values your membership and your thoughts on the various threads, and wouldn't want you to stop posting just because of these people. I hope you will come back and post again.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis2200

Exactly how I see it. I'll shake my head and tut at a lot of threads on here, but if I can't reply without it sounding like an insult then I won't put anything at all.

When replying to posts I try to put myself in the other persons shoes and see how my post would affect me if I were them (if you know what I mean). I enjoy coming here and talking about various things, so I try to make it pleasant for others too. If I have to call someone on anything I usually word it beginning with something like "I understand your point but I see it this way".

When I first started posting I maybe wasn't aware of others feelings so much, but as time has gone on I am.

Are you on drugs? Just kidding! lol

Exactly, RabidCat; I've encountered this same thing many times. This is why I won't deal with debunkers. I could sit here all day and send post after post to them showing different accounts and explanations until I'm blue in the face, and they still won't believe what I have to say. This is why I don't bother any more. I suggest they do research, read books, and do their homework and they will come to their own conclusions. I won't waste my time on them. One debunker put it best when he posted on another forum, that he loves to argue. I think this sums it up best.

~ Isis2200

dont you like to brag!

Very well stated, Magikman.

And I also agree with Purplos in that opinions such as these are valid. I'm sure we've all had some of these opinions from time to time(I have them all the time when I watch TV) , but most of us don't going around voicing those negative opinions such as stupid, dumb, crazy, idiotic, etc.

Very true, Magikman; "these comments are unproductive and derisive and belie a disregard for intelligent and civil discussion."

I hope more people take your words to heart.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis2200

Yes. After stopping posting a couple times, this time I've returned with the criteria that I won't reply more than a couple times to a skeptic. Put it this way: last time I was chastised by not one, but two moderators for finally telling some nitwit off for not reading the material in question. So, now if some idiot writes "where's the proof" after having been referred to material on the subject, I'll just ignore it. Almost always, when I write something here it is backed by verifiable facts: while I may be considered "fringe", I'm more of a true scientist than most of the debunkers who write on UM. More to a very valid point, we do NOT know everything, and to simply say it ain't so is not only unscientific, it is truly stupid.
Thank you, Isis.