Do you believe in the Bible? Yes or no? Why or why not?

As a christian I believe in the bible. Im not sure whether Jesus really existed or not but what he stood for symbolically is a pure message and the state of holiness he achieved is something all people can achieve if they put the effort in. Also I don't think most of the "history" in the bible is true as well.To me the Bible is a book which can point you to the means to liberate the ego and unite the soul with the Godhead. It is a book of love and truth. I also Believe in the Bhagavad Gita though not as a historic record but as supreme spiritual knowledge, also the Tao te ching by lao tzu, the book of chuang tzu, the koran, poetry of Jalal-uddin rumi and buddhist scriptures.

To me there is no one book of God or spirituality. There is something that can be learned and applied from all of them from all cultures.

The Bible contains 66 books, divided among the Old and New Testaments.
There are 39 books in the Old Testament.
There are 27 books in the New Testament.
The Bible was written in three languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek.
The Bible was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit by over 40 different authors from all walks of life: shepherds, farmers, tent-makers, physicians, fishermen, priests, philosophers and kings. Despite these differences in occupation and the span of years it took to write it, the Bible is an extremely cohesive and unified book. It was written over a period of some 1,500 years, from around 1450 B.C. (the time of Moses) to about 100 A.D. (following the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ).
The words of the scriptures are a great puzzle that was dismantled to protect it from corruption, only the individual who truly asks with an earnest desire to know the truth will be given the keys to understanding. Many can quote the Bible word for word (including the devil himself) but few understand its meaning. There are two keys to understanding, one is in the heart of man and the other is held by the Holy Spirit of God.
The first key is attained by free will and a desire to know the truth (the heart). The Holy Spirit holds the second key to protect it from corruption by the deceiver until they are delivered to the born again soul shortly after acceptance of redemption.
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Irish

Nope. Don't believe in it... well I should say I believe that it's a collection of mythologies.

No I don't believe in the Bible. Yes I have read it, no I am not going to read it again. I don't even own a copy any more, if I need one I look it up on the internet. The reason I don't is because there are many things in it I don't agree with and it is a little to bloody for my taste.

No, and there's absolutely no reason to. It contradicts itself, it's barbaric in many places without explanation nor justification, the whole means behind it is barbaric in and of itself: A createor causing massive pain and suffering with absolutely no need, desire, or motive to... not to mention that there's no evidence to support any one of its spritual claims. Would the word of the divine creator of the universe write such an inconlusive text, and on top of that, not even write it himself? The Bible doesn't call for faith in God, it calls for faith in the prophets' credibility, which is virtually non-existant.

How many times can you contradict yourself in one post?

You say that as a Christian you believe the Bible. But then you say you don't believe Jesus existed, then you say that anyone can achieve the "state of holiness" Jesus (who you are not sure existed, although you believe the Bible) achieved, which goes against what is taught in the Bible. You also say you're don't think most of the history is true, and you believe the spiritual knowledge in other books.

BNW, either you do or you don't believe the Bible. Either way is fine, but it's kind of obvious that you have not studied the Bible, so how can you say you believe it?

That claim of believing the Bible without really studying (or even reading it and just going with what someone else tells them is in the Bible) is what has led to so many horrible acts and activities being done by people who claim to be doing God's will, while actually doing things which God as Jesus spoke against.

The ignorance of what is and isn't written in the Bible shows up in even fairly innocuous ways. There are people who really believe that somewhere in the Bible it says, "God helps those who help themselves." that is NOWHERE in the Bible. In fact, the opposite is a huge part of the message God put in the Bible. God helps the helpless.

Nope, its clear it even with children who are allowed some freedom of thought pick up on that its not plausible kids as early as 6 or seven begin to see through it themselves, sort of like the time period where kds think eating a watermelon seed will make it grow a watermelon in your stomach....., sort of like Hans Christian Anderson fairy tales...I see nothing inspirational about the bible, or if its inspired it was wild imaginings of very scared people... The bible is taking the beleif in the toothfairy way too far past an appropriate age, sort of like never potty training your kid or nursing for life..i do see value in using the storys to discern the difference between what is real and what isnt, the bible would be way to harsh and frighteneing of a teaching tool in fairy tales the point is there is always a happy ending, in the bible tales someone always dies or gets maimed or terrorized, or promised things noone can know. with the ritual of wearing a guy nailed toa cross around your neck, its downright creepy IMO....... unless you want to scare your kids or give them paranoias i would not put it on the too read list .. thinking old mother hubbard lived in a shoe .....i see it as one day being A western collecction of campfire storys told to scare the hell out of ya.....I always did feel the bible is truly the finest in literary terror.......

read it.

don't believe it, but do admit that there are certain truths in it.

If you strip away the primitive superstitions.

I've read a good bit of the bible. I think it has good intentions; but I dont agree with a lot of what it says.

i believe it..live by it..trust in it..learn from it..it is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path..it is my strenght my sheild my refuge.

Life is full of massive pain and suffering, but if there is no creator then simply nature has dealt this hand, do you reject nature as well?

I don't know what to believe anymore really, lol

but its deff. a paradox, you know? God is real cause the bible says so...and the bible is real cause God says so...

it is what it is...john 1:1 in the begining was the word and the word was with god and the Word Was God...

Not a paradox at all, you're just looking at it wrong. God is. The Bible is real because it's His message to man.

Yeah, Iams got it. It's god's message to man.


I don't care for the bible and I don't believe in it. Look at human morals in today's world and what you think is right and then compare it to what the bible and that religion holds for morality. I found that the bible falls short of being moral so that's a major reason why the bible if false. A religion can't be a sound religion if it's immoral.

Not a paradox, but begging the question.

That is a logical fallacy. You are arguing ad populum; Idea X is popular, therefore X is true. Morality does not change; it is what ought and should not what is.

Define what you mean by moral before we get into the fallacy of equivocation .

What is “immoral” about the Bible? Not directly aimed at you, but it’s hypocrisy to say the Bible is “immoral” when someone believes morality is relative yet accuses the Bible of “immorality.”

What is best for humans and maybe animals for our world today.



Well god himself is immoral in the book. Slaughtered over 2 million people, also resulted in mass rape, pillaging and slavery. I guess an all knowing and all powerful god can't use peaceful ways? Also the bible puts women on a lower level then men. Uses terrorism in the ways of fear and force to spead religion. By the own crimes against humanity, god himself is a terrorist in the bible. There's more but those are some ideas. All that from a religion of ...love.

Those don't fit into my moral bounds.

Define what you mean by “best” and then explain why anyone should listen to your opinion.

What site did you get this from? Please give a specific verse because all three points are factually false, especially the slavery one.

Not if you get your Bible knowledge from a secular site. A little ignorance here and there gets you a butchered verses.

Nonsense. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

What site you reading because I know it’s not the Bible.


Those were some farfetched and out there ideas, sounds like a wild book.

You have no moral bounds, it’s just an illusion propagated by another illusion.

I'm the kind of person who believes that there is no point for me to follow the bible/christianity unless I agree with it 100%.

I have problems with the bible, so I now choose not to follow it because I cannot follow something that I do not trust in 100%.

I'm a very all or nothing type of person and I don't want to just pick and chose because I think that defeats the purpose.
I don't know... I just know at the moment I cannot be a christian.






Well, while men and women are technically equal, none is better than the other, the bible specifies gender roles which seems very unfair. Woman must submit to man. Thats pretty clear. Yes, men are supposed to love their wives unconditionally, but women still must "submit" and I can understand how many would find this very sexist/unfair. I must say that I do not agree with it myself.

You have to understand the whole culture context as well as the creation account to understand the roles. It all goes back to the creation account of Adam. Eve sinned, but sin entered the world through Adam, why? Because Adam was the first being, he had full responsibility over Eve. We are told to respect and treat our wives fairly, to meet their desires. Most Christian men I know considered themselves lucky to have great wives and feel “unworthy” of their love.

Ephesians 5:28 sums it up-"So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loevs himself.

My morals are from a human standpoint. So I believe in equality, freedoms across the board and such.



Rational Response Squad [LINK] Over 2+ million humans dead

They have all the bible links inside.

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

(2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.


Very sick and twisted.

If you'd like the source to that those other quotes, I can gladly provide them if you PM me or ask me. Just that there is a lot of swearing for the crimes against humanity.

Well I was raised roman catholic, so I got to read the bible quite a bit.



Nonsense all you want but history clearly proves this.

So an all knowing and all powerful god commanding war, rape and pillaging while also threatening people with a lake of fire to swim in, in hell while pushing forward the ideas through fear isn't terrorism? Ha!



Well that illusion stops me from going outside right now and shooting the first person I see and raping the first woman I see on the street. I guess there's something to it then.

I believe in the Bible, but I believe it has basically been ruined during the translating and editing processess through the ages. I find it sad really. Why would we ever edit God's word? Was it not perfect enough? I thought God was perfect, so wouldn't his word be perfect too? Those are the kind of questions that can keep a man up at night, just thinking. I only wish I could see the original scrolls.

They did edit out the disclaimer page which went like this..."Although inspired in part by a true incident, the following story is fictional and does not depict any actual person or event".



P.S. Get the reference get a cookie.

You are not answering my question. What is the “best?” What is a “human standpoint,” seems like you just made it up.


CHA-CHING! At least now I know where you regurgitated this from. Nothing “rational” from the squad seeing how their claims have been copied and pasted from other sources.

No need to, this has been refuted ad nauseum. I think http://www.tektonics.org/lp/packham02.html as well as A.S.A. Jones http://www.ex-atheist.com/numbers31.html have given elaborate rebuttals to these “atrocities” that go around within secualr circles. William Lane Craig has also refuted all these claims extensively in his debates with atheists.

What is a crime against humanity?

If morality is relative as you claim there is nothing wrong with doing the above mentioned unless you can give me a logical reason why I should not.

This is probably way off, but, Law & Order? I don't watch it much, but it was the first thing that came up on Google for 'Although inspired in part by a true incident, the following story is fictional and does not depict any actual person or event'

Oh, dear Lord, I fell guilty for spamming up this thread, I must go confess soon.

Best would be peaceful and less resistance to free thought. If you want to keep on claiming I'm a moralless atheist, go for it. Fact still remains I see wrong and right.



Completely pathetic to ignore the issue. So about those 2 million human lifes again?

It hasn't been refuted. Those quotes are still valid. It's quite clear actually despite what believers want to spew out.

I mean... How can you ignore the actual words?



Well to start with, god and his 2 million body count behind him at least to name one area.



Because you wouldn't want it done to you?

Okay now I define best as what ever fulfils you and makes you happy. Therefore a rapist is living out the “best.” Relativism gets you the fallacy of equivocation.

Where did I even claim this?

No, the fact is you have an illusion of what right and wrong are, although they are based on nothing but your preferences.

I haven’t ignored anything.

Yes it has, I’ve been listing to debates for some time now and even atheists have started to avoid using those verses you quoted. You would know this if you invested time in research.

It’s quite clear ”rational response squad” is ignorant to the historical context of the passages as well as the passages before it. If you actually read the rebuttals you would understand why their conclusion does not logically follow from their accusations.

You keep avoiding basic questions. What is a crime against humanity? Define it in your own words.

You are arguing ad misericordiam and appealing to emotion instead of reason. If A enjoys rape, murder, and theft while B is a “good” steward why must I choose one over the other? Why isn't a sadist justified when he gets gratification from his activities?

It also doesn't logically follow that what I wouldn’t like to happen to me is wrong.

I'm really not in the mood for head games. You can dance all around the facts you want but god in the bible as they were being quoted in that site, has killed over 2 million people, which in turn also lead to rape, looting, slavery and other bad things.

But hey... That might be why you can't answer back in a direct way because it's a fact that they're their.

They are not head games but the simple fact that you can not defend your own worldview because it makes absolutely no logical sense.

If you want to remain ignorant to actual facts than sure why not.

I have.

Like I said, husbands are supposed to love their wives uncondiotionally, but that still does not take away from the fact that a woman must submit to her husband. That seems like a scary relationship to me where I, for one, would feel like less of a person. As for men that feel lucky to have wives that feel unworthy of their love..that seems a tad odd to me. Why would a woman feel unworthy to have the love of a man? If someone loves themself they should feel worthy of love. The word unworthy almost seems like the woman is a second class citizen. I feel blessed to have someone that loves me and who I love very much. Blessed, not unworthy.

I understand thats how the whole male/female issue in the bible works and I understand how some disagree about it. I'm not faulting anyone for wanting to live the way they wish, I am just stating my point of view and how others can see this as a negative thing.


/derail *oops!*

What are you defining as "submission?" It is not that a women is a slave to the man or must blindly follow him incase you were thinking that.

That is exactly what it is not saying. In fact it says to love your wife as Christ loves the Church. The NT is filled with women being equal to men.



I actually said “most Christian men I know considered themselves lucky to have great wives and feel “unworthy” of their love.” The Christian men feel unworthy compared to their wives. I never said wives feel unworthy, but the men are extremely grateful for such great wives.

Aside from the fact I never said women, it is a figure of speech.

That’s fine but you have to understand the creation account as well as Christ’s relationship to the church to understand the family structure.

Interesting, because my world view isn't part of this thread. Though I do have an old blog entry with my issues laid out for the most part... Feel free to look it over: Link

Actual facts? Those are actual facts from the bible it's self, something you have yet to debunk. If you look at the rational response link they list all the bible verses were the deaths came from. No, they aren't the only site out there that has it but never the less they have it listed.

You haven't answered me back directly. You've done run arounds and dancing.

Since you brought up what you believe is the “best,” then I feel it must be analyzed.

Great, but you still haven’t answered the question; what prevents me from raping, murdering, or becoming a sadist if I feel gratification and happy from such activities. You have repeatedly argued ad misericordiam and have not been able to logically defend your belief system.

Post #26 debunks them all.


I know that because there are several sites with the exact same material; nothing new.

I guess it boils down to, I don't do what I don't want done to me.



Nothing, so go for it if you'd like. I'd think you were sick but hey, what would you care you have no morals in this situation.

In those links then, post what debunks them. I'm not going to scan through you links because you think they do.

I'm quoting the freaking bible, so all those verses are there and that's fact.



The fact still remains that god in the bible has killed over 2 million human beings. That's immoral and it's wrong. God is nothing more then a terrorist in the bible.

That is illogical because I wouldn’t want several things happening to me while other people would.

So your whole argument about being “inhumane” and the “best” was a circular argument and begging the question?

Sick because I do not follow your view? I would have no morals? Why, because I do not follow your subjective preferences? Talk about a double standard, you can not even keep up with your own view that’s how incoherent it is.

Well it would be pointless to copy segments when the whole context is needed.

That’s great, but that does not change the fact that the ignorance to what slavery is in the Bible, the context the verse you copied and pasted were in and so on are apparent. It is like accusing the U.S.A. for fighting in WW2 without giving the full context of the actual event.

Since no Biblical scholar would take your claims seriously, for the sake of the argument. Why would killing be immoral and wrong? You have not given an answer to this very basic question. If anyone is doing the "dancing" it is you.

So you can't? I'm not skimming through endless pages of text. I posted my quotes up and in front. Why can't you?



Sure, go back and read the books then. Those verses are still there and quite clear.

It's taught in religious school about the plagues and such along with other killings in the bible. So yeah actually they do take it seriously.



Alright, why isn't killing wrong? I'm not dancing, I'm looking for straight forward answers. You're the one trying to make this about me, trying to get a morals debate going and then instead of addressing the issues you try and mock the source rather then the message. Pathetic.

P4P3R are you saying that God didn't kill millions of people? Are you somehow denying that The Great Flood, The Ten Plaques, Sodom and Gomorah, etc. didn't happen?

God killed inocent people in the above events...all in the name of vengeance.

I feel that the Bible isnt to be entirely trusted. One faith is to be with God and God alone. Church. The Bible. That isnt very relevant. The Bible i trust in some parts but in other aspects i can very well see the difference between a "loving God" state of mind and an "evil human" state of mind. The Bible has some good things in it. Yet there are some contradictions - big and small. I wont deny it. Yet i will deny a contradiction as Gods word. I think a contradiction could only come from Human Error and not God.

During the days all of these "prophets" wanted to come forward and claim their experiences with God. I believe some of these were false. There are some chapters of the Bible available in one version and not in the other. Theres also some chapters that have been completely cut off or excluded. People chose what they wanted and what they didnt want on the Bible. So i feel a conflict between Gods true word and Mans corruption in the Bible and its a tug of war to me.

I pick and choose from the Bible and its my right.I believe the very core of God is love and justice and mercy. Anything that doesnt fit the description of God and his goodness i am skeptic of. I read the Bible with caution and i still respect it because i still do believe some of it was heavenly inspired - yet sometimes i feel the Bible is not necessary at all and i should just focus on God and God alone - no building or no book.

That's correct. But to say what I said goes against what is written in the bible is up to debate and is a matter of opinion.



I have read it however I have only studied the gosepls. This either I do or don't believe in the bible, black and white view of the world, is in my view what the bible teaches against. But I do believe in it even if I havn't studied the whole thing. I think some parts are irrelevant and boring. It is only the Gospels that interested me. And yes I am a christian even if in your opinion I am not. Because You don't need to study the whole bible to believe in it or to get a grasp of it's basic spiritually liberating message. All one Ultimately needs to do is:

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and Great commandment. And the second is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. ---Jesus

Beautiful isn't it?? I feel it is my duty as a true chirstian to incorporate other teachings whether it be from the spiritual Gurus of India like Sri RamaKrishna(Allah bless him) or Ramana Maharshi(Allah bless him). Also to exclude the teachings of Buddha or Lao Tzu(Allah bless them both) simply because organized religion and the bible says so would be anti spiritual on my part.

If more christian took the time to see, they would see that there are many similarities between Buddha and jesus. Both Challenged the established religions of their time, both preached constant patience and compassion in the face of anger and violence, both taught that one needs to fast and undergo certain conditions to achieve the 'enlightenment' or 'salvation' which they achieved. Let me give you one small example of how they are similar:

That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornifications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy,pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. ---Jesus

And on a short note: It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe that lures him the evil ways. ---Buddha

Jesus was a beautiful sage who taught man that he can find God within himself without the need of scripture or organized religion. The fact that we have numerous bibles with Jesus' teachings is a blessing and a gift.

Buddha taught man that inner peace can be achieved without the need for a belief in God or the gods. Both were as enlightened as each other. Also I could write an entire essay on the similarities between buddhism and taoism, taoism and christianity, christianity and hinduism etc.

This following quote is from Sri RamaKrishna and sums up my opinion on reconciling the 'Truth' amongst more than one religion:

Truth is one; only It is called by different names. All people are seeking the same Truth; the variance is due to climate, temperament, and name. A lake has many ghats. From one ghat the Hindus take water in jars and call it 'jal'. From another ghat the Mussalmāns take water in leather bags and call it 'pāni'. From a third the Christians take the same thing and call it 'water'. Suppose someone says that the thing is not 'jal' but 'pāni', or that it is not 'pāni' but 'water', or that it is not 'water' but 'jal', It would indeed be ridiculous. But this very thing is at the root of the friction among sects, their misunderstandings and quarrels. This is why people injure and kill one another, and shed blood, in the name of religion. But this is not good. Everyone is going toward God. They will all realize Him if they have sincerity and longing of heart. (p. 423)

Or to put in more suffinctly from Sri Aurobindo: All religions are approaches to a single truth.

But yeah I am still confidently Christian in my view and only the inner Guru within has the right to judge me but I love the inner Guru within for the very reason that it doesn't judge. Paradoxical aye??? Anyway I've ranted enough.

Adam was created co-equal to Lilith. He had no responsibility over her, just as she had none over him. Now when Adam wanted to lie with Lilith she asked why she could not be on top and Adam said this is how I want it so it will be so. Lilith objected, pointing out their equality, and Adam threw a hissy fit and went running to God who told Lilith to obey Adam. She refused and was cast out. Eve was then created to be subservient so this fuss wouldn't happen again. The bible is misogynist right from the start of the creation of humanity.

Where did I deny this? I am however denying the ignorance associated with the actual context of the event.


Absolutely false as innocent would refer to something pure and sinless.

P4P3R T1G3R2,

At least one innocent was confirmed killed by God - and it's in the Bible.

Read the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot, his wife and his 2 virgin daughters were pure and sinless and told to flee Sodom as God was going to raze the city. They were told not to look back, yet Lot's wife couldn't overcome her curiosity, looked back, and was struck dead. She was innocent, yet was killed by God. How can you justify that?

God had the power to spare her - but did not.

son, IMO there are the dogma bible christians and BNW is the christian that will not adhere or followed or exceot on hearsay taht 'god' is the monster of lore, the one man has dreamed up in his image to justify the mass slaughter of so many innocents...Relgion has even taken its 'hero' Jesus and turned him into a egomaniac who claims to be god and was dieing for your sins yet you are still sinful..hmmm.....It is in fairness and collective concern that many ask why and wonder what causes an alliance to such a obvious hate adgenda....Many have a vision of a peacefu humanity at the very least standing in untiy as to what we deem harmful and what we don't..seriously challenging the doctrines that teach otherwise, even as a parent one must set the example of the ability to discern value and merit, practical wisdoms from garbage...As a humankind it would serve us to have a standard of behaving, the one set downand followed by relgion are horrible and the effects are observable..... And this simple truth is isn't working as a practical system for geting along , it actaully creates dysfunctions and conflict... In the family unit when the team is divided and hurting each other , the wise ones look to the core beleifs that are inspiring the behaviors, its the same on a global scale my freind.....

Bleah.. dun believe i'm doing this..

You just pointed out why she wasn't spared. She went against their god by looking back. That's when she lost her innocence.

However... this story ends in incest... *shivers* gah no no no no.. just no...

Disobedience killed these people.

Disobedience killed Lot's wife. She was given the gift of life (forewarned of the destruction that was to come) but instead of accepting the gift, her curiousity caused her to turn and look...the end result her death. Actually it was a form a suicide....one can't blame the Father for that!!!

The Father didn't tell the daughters to that, they took it upon themselves...can't blame the Father for that either.

Ah yes, lets not hold the 'father ' accountable then.. so the innocent kids that were raped and molested by the priests are responsible then, not the adult???hmmm have you not noticed how the diety/adult is never held accountable for his actions . a kid that is beat deserves it, this is the worthless construct mentality and it has created alot of harm, and alot of these behaviors... one has no value so do what you want, this same philosophy is practiced in the care of our planet and the raising of our kids and the treatmetn of animals etc..............this has become very dangerous to those that are helpless......this is what you hold up as a good example???hMMMM ......