Okay, I have a project for World Literature that I have to do and it's has to be about a "world mystery". I'm doing mine on the city of Atlantis.
Does anyone have any information on this mystical place? Websites and book recommendations are extremely welcome! :]

Atlantis is the supposed 8th Continent. Plato, the Greek philosopher, prophecised its destruction in his dialogue, Timaeus and Critas.

For more info, visit these sites:

Atlantis

Plato

The only information anywhere in existence is in these two dialogues by Plato:
Timaeus
Critias.

All other references to Atlantis that exist anywhere at all are either based solely on these two ancient works (around 360 BC) or are based in some way on modern "channeled" information from so-called psychic rip-off artists.

Read these two Dialogues and make up your own mind. You might also want to read "The Republic" by Plato, which is the dialogue that immediately precedes these two.

To help with your interpreting what Plato says, try this site:
Atlantis.

Harte

what is the source for the claim Atlantis was a continent? just wondering

only a few hundred miles in size... doesn't sound like a continent to me...

Here are the top 4 most recent topics about Atlantis. I'm sure there are tons of websites and books referred to in this topics. As well as some crazy out there theories that you wont find anywhere but this forum.

The Atlantis Room
Crete was not Atlantis
Atlantis
Dolphns may be from Atlantis?

I personally love the book "Gateway to Atlantis" by Andrew Collins. It's a relative composium of all Atlantis theories. He talks about every single one and even describes his own theory after 10 years of Atlantis research. Great read as well. It's about 1k pages tho. Takes awhile.

"Lost Continent of Altantis" is another thing it's called.

I don't know much about Altantis. So just read the threads that Rezna posted.

Accidently pressed it twice. Ignore this post.

Plato didn't as much /foretell/ the destruction of Atlantis as /report/ it.

--Jaylemurph

proph·e·sy Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prof-uh-sahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -sied, -sy·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1. to foretell or predict.
2. to indicate beforehand.
3. to declare or foretell by or as if by divine inspiration.
4. to utter in prophecy or as a prophet.
–verb (used without object)
5. to make predictions.
6. to make inspired declarations of what is to come.
7. to speak as a mediator between God and humankind or in God's stead.
8. Archaic. to teach religious subjects.

Yeah, Plato needed to be writing this before Atlantis existed if he had prophesied, not prophecised which isn't a word.

Pax,

I believe it is this, from Critias


"Greater in extent than Libya and Asia" meant to Plato, as I recall, larger than the then known portion of Africa and the Middle East (not all of Asia as we know it today.)

Actually, Plato describes Atlantis the kingdom as a series of islands which collectively were this large, unless I misremember. I believe it was later that some scholar decided it was worthy of being called a continent, based on this.

Harte

Plato calls it an island, and gives dimensions that are hardly continental in size... were Libya and Asia islands to Plato? just wondering

I read this stuff in a book, don't remember which one, it was a while ago...as in years ago. But, according to some sources there's supposed to be quite a bit of possible references to Atlantis in a lot of ancient and not so ancient cultures around the world. The only one I remember is Aztecs, whose long lost ancestral home island was supposedly Aztlan in one of their legends. And Aztlan does sound like Atlantis, don't you think? Just a thought, you might want to mention that in your project. If you can find a source for it. Well, in fact I just did it for you. There's some stuff about it: Atlantis

Watch a video on Atlantis under my youtube account: AncientWorldWonders. Here is all the information you need, condensed into 2 hrs. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=AncientWorldWonders

If you need any more info on Atlantis, I consider myself an authority on the subject.

..and there's a word in Persian that sounds like "bad" and means roughly the same thing as it does in English. Does this mean the English come from Iran or vice versa? No. There's only so many sounds humans can make, so sometimes words in different languages sound alike.

--Jaylemurph

oo someone needs info on atlantis u say


Searched the forum for Atlantis Results 0 - 25 of about 4366. Search took 0.2871 seconds

Best I Can Do For Your Research

Oh, I am quite aware of that. I thought I said I wasn't claiming that Atlantis must have existed. However, the source I provided wasn't the one I had read earlier since it wasn't on the internet. In the source I read there were a lot more examples like that, like Aztlan, and when you have multiple similar myths with similar names in different cultures around the world, there is a possibility it's more than just a coincidence. I'm sorry that I can't provide that source, I just don't remember where I read it. I think the hindus had a myth about "Atala" or "Atalas" or something like that, which was also related to a marvellous, sunken land. But not having researched or studied the hindu mythology, I really can't say for sure.

My point is, I'm not ruling out any possibilities. I think I've said it before though, in some other thread concerning the subject. Atlantis does fascinate me, but I don't necessarily believe in it. I'm just not ready to rule out the possibility it may have existed, until someone provides me with absolute unrefutable proof that it has not existed. I'm not even saying it existed in the form Plato described it. Remember the Arthurian legends of the middle-ages and the reneissance? Assuming they might have been based on some celtic/breto-roman general/chief, the description of Arthur and the knights in the legends are quite inaccurate and vastly exaggerated.

I feel the same way Clocker. Just as much as these skeptics want absolute proof that it existed, I want proof that it didn't. There isn't enough proof for either theory. Did anyone happen to catch the Atlantis program that was on last night? I didn't even notice it was going to be on which is very strange, I usually catch all of these shows. Was it any good?

Clocker, I'm aware of the theories you mention here and I have done some limited research into them.

The Aztecs spoke (still speak) Nahuatl. Aztlan is the Nahuatl word for the mythical homeland of the Aztec, which is the place they migrated from when they came into the Valley of Mexico. This was in pretty recent times (A.D.) and hence not likely to be associated with any 10,000 year old ancient civilization.

BTW, Nahuatl as a language is associated with the languages of the tribes of the American Southwest. Current thinking is that the Aztecs originally stem from these peoples, possibly the Anastazi or their predecessors, and that if Aztlan existed at all, it's likely to be found in South Central California.

Also, Aztlan itself is not a very good match for Atlantis. While it's true that it was supposedly surrounded by water and was flooded, the actual Aztec myth tells us that it was an island in the middle of a swampy lake.
You may want references. Used to have them, but my old hard drive crashed. Try googling Nahuatl together with Aztlan, you'll probably find the same sites I saved and susequently lost.

Regarding the Hindu Atala, this was one of the levels of the Hindu underworld, It's been turned into a "sunken land" only in stories written by people out to take your money. Atala, also called the "White Island," was not an actual island in Hindu Mythology. That's an artifact of the translation. These pseudoscientists will try to say it was an actual island while the Hindu texts refer to it as one of the underworld levels, though "island-like." Also, the con artists will point to the Hindus stating that Atala is "below" in their effort to show that it sank, assuming that if it is now "below," why then it must once have been "above." Again, here Google is your friend. A bit of advice, if you want to find out the real deal about these kinds of things, do not include the term "Atlantis" (or anything associated with it - like Lemuria for example) in your searches. Just use Atala or Nahuatl+Aztlan. Otherwise you'll have to wade through all the pseudoscience before you can find out where these terms actually come from and what they mean.


A fair statement if I ever saw one.


See my response to you in the "Egyptians in South America" thread regarding attempting to prove that something didn't happen in the distant past.

But I'm with you regarding the possibility that some ancient unknown civilization may have existed. My problem is, why even refer to it as Atlantis at all if Plato didn't describe it? I'm of the opinion that Plato used known catastrophes to illustrate what happened to his allegorical and fictional Atlantian civilization. However, that certainly doesn't rule out the possibility of some ancient civilization, unknown to us (and unknown to Plato).

Harte

I'm in the same boat, here. I'm just a little cranky about linguistics recently, after reading some of Peter Moon's non-sensical attempts at Historical and Comparative linguistics in his Montauk books. I have heard this linguistic theory, too (maybe in Moon's books, actually).

--Jaylemurph

There is also supposed to be a lost ancient place called Atland.... author Robert Scrutton wrote a couple of very interesting books on the subject...one was The Secrets of Lost Atland (think that was it)....you could do a search on the internet and see what comes up.

Ive never read any of this stuff before but I understood it in a different way.

Socrates was a philosopher - so my guess is a lot of what he wrote was philosophical metaphor rather than literal truth.

I read it as there was a civilisation which spanned Egypt and across the Atlantic. (The literal geography)

This civilisation was founded on the same ideology. (an island)

However there was a 'conflict' and the glue that held that ideology together crumbled. (something occured which it couldn't deal with)

The civilisation fell into chaos and disintegrated. (the island fell back into the sea)

Something of significance was lost in the chaos. (lost in the ocean and mud gets in the way)


I think its all written in metaphor. I think Atlantis was a civilisation - not a literal Island.

Hi Harte,

A very good reply if I may say so. Overall it seems to me that have a very similar view of the whole "Atlantis" myth, with some small differences that everyone has over everything. I knew most of that information about Aztlan though, I just wanted to bring up the similarities between the Aztlan and Atlantis myth, because some similarities do exist. Despite there are some major differences, I still think it's quite fascinating that it has even that much in common with the Atlantis myth. As for Atala, I thought it might have been an "interpretation" that I read. However, my aim was to find out if there were theories aligning these myths with Atlantis, and there were...how credible they are, is another story But like I said, I'm not disputing anything. There may have been an ancient unknown civilization, but then again there might not have been. Time will probably tell.

It's worth remembering that, according to Plato, the names he used in his dialogues were translations of translations (ie they were Greek names, translated from Egyptian which in turn had been translated from the original language). The one thing we can therefore be sure of is that Atlantis was not called Atlantis and that any comparison of similar sounding names is a complete red herring....

(This oft overlooked fact also, incidently, disproves all the nonsense from the likes of Edgar Cayce who used Greek names)

okay, as to Where it may be-
Plato has told us that they 'enemy' last outside of the pillars of hercules. there is only one way into the med. sea from the atlantic. that is through these 'pillars' now, i believe this means through gibraltar, since it essentially is giant pillars.(really, its cliffs, but you get the drift.) one place that it could very well be, considering the area of Lybia and Asia explored at that time, is the Azores region of the Atlantic Ocean.

if you notice, the area is fairly shallow in this region, and no expeditions exploring the water for evidence of atlantis have ever been launched in that area. good place to look if you ask me, since its such a volatile region due to the merge of the african, atlantic, and european tectonic plates .

when looking for atlantis one has to take tectonic plates into account ,now the uroasia plate and african plate yes meet at these pillars of harculise.

as these plates move away from each other we get that river that noa surfed on because it went from a river to a large channal letting the atlantic ocean

in .

there was more than one flood, noa was the one that jumped on the band wagon that time .

this flood cleansed the med- sea and all the blood lines that lived within.

because before the sea that is there now it was a river and those that liberated east of the pillars did inhabid her.

but you see at the same time in this story on the west side of these pillars lets say in the atlantic prov's this island cont that we hear about,

we have to look at the makeup of cape breton island .

the best way to describe this island from a tectonic point of veiw is to see it as a bobber in a sea of tectonic plates.

this island which is the capestone of that once great mt,

is the missing link that connects the atas mt range to the apppallation mt range.

for at one time she stood right in the middel.

the farther the uroasia plate and african plate move from here this island did fall, till once she reached the bottum.

the north american plate moves westward rotating counterclockwise ,

with evey action there is a reaction and when this island subsided the last time you had the spreading of the pillares and a great flood wiped out the

known world at the time.

but this was only noa,s known world.

HOW MANY TIMES do people need to scream "GIVE US EVIDENCE" at you, before u do it ???

Lots and Lots, apparently.

--Jaylemurph

i would like to state that I DO NOT have anything against ANY UM member (yes including MAD) all i want is for people that have theories to show me WHY they think what they stated,, and if posible to BACK IT UP with some kind of evidence... if u dont have ANY evidence.. your theory isnt THEORY at all its an IDEA that is only in YOUR MIND... no educated person will even discuss it with u if u have NO EVIDENCE at all... this is like me saying i had a cup of coffe with aliens... but i forgot to take pictures.. record video... or do anything that can prove my statement.... even 8 year old would call me out on this and tell me i was full of $#!t ....

first of all my proof is the island of cape breton ,right there in front of all to see.

the 150 acers i showed is just the corner stone of whats to come.

there are over 3000 sq miles of secrates that are above sea level for you to find .

remember out side what i have showed you with my family's property it's wide open in the highlands.

and if you wern't so blind you would see the harmonie between the mother ,

father and son which is held together by the holie spirit .

i'm just following the signs that show me the way on my path in life were that takes me well i gess you'll soon see .

i'll say this again if i'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrong then why are you all so tetermond to silents what i say.

Because we're never quite sure what you're trying to say

--Jaylemurph

I am sorry to tell you that ISLAND can NOT be a proof ... that like saying EARTH is proof... makes no sence... go DIG some... DISCOVER something and we might show some interest in it...



Harmony between MOTHER -> Father-> son and -> HOLLY SPIRIT ???
What in the HOLY HECK are you talking about ??? seriouslly are u trying to bring CHRISTIAN RELIGION into something that took place LONGGG before its creation ????

I've heard of the theory of England being Atlantis. It fits Plato's story more than any other translation I have heard.

I forgot to add that at the end of the Würm Ice Age (around 8000 bce) England was flooded and didn't become an island again until around 5000 bce. Google the Würm Ice Age yourself and see if the England scenario starts to represent Atlantis even more.

That is odd. Odd, considering that according to THIS WEBSITE, which btw is dedicated to the geological history of the British isles, Great Britain hasn't been underwater at all for the last 60 million years or so.

I find it odd that you know for a fact something about Britain that geologists that study Britain for a living are completely unaware of.

But, since you claim that Britain is the "best fit" for Plato's Atlantis, I wonder how you would reconcile the fact that, according to Plato, Atlantis "sank" sometime around 9,500 BCE, a full thousand years before the end of the last Ice Age (which is, indeed, often referred to as the "wurm" Ice Age.) Also, show me the evidence for elephants on the British Isles which, according to Plato, Atlantis had.

Harte

i really love you lol... i am reading post above and thinking about all these things to say... lol
than i read next thread and they have all already been said

Bosanchero,

It's all really just a matter of timing, isn't it? I've noticed that you and I are of a like mind in much of this flapdoodly crapola.

Harte

Now england as atlantis. I feel so much better about the things I've been saying recently on the topic of Atlantis. I've never heard someone try to go this far. Atlantis was described as a tropical paradise, much of it matching that of south america. That is a humongous stretch to say that england fits the descriptions of atlantis the best. Wow. I'm just shocked.

The Gods gave man the power and stature that they wanted to see what would happen. It was doomed to fail i believe.

Many great writers and great brains were interested in Atlants. J.R.R. Tolkien wrote about Atlantis. Harold Sidis(Highest IQ in human history)

http://www.sidis.net/BioWilliamJamesSidis.htm had a fasination with Atlantis. I believe that there is a truth to Atlantis because it peaks an interest in almost all

who hear about it. Many say that Plato seems to describe Atlantis as if he had actually seen it. Or in the least as someone convinced of its existence.

I would suggest some reading such asUnderworld: Flooded Kingdoms of the Ice Age. This book also helps to explain all of the Great Flood stories found in many cultures. As to the date of the ending of the Pleistocene, I don't get your point because 9,500 bce is usually given as the end of the last ice age and we aren't talking about a precise date or even year of the fall of Atlantis, just a given era.

As for elephants, when did the Mammoths in Europe become extinct? Wasn't it at the end of the last ice age? Look at Wrangel Island in the Arctic Ocean, the Mammoths survived up to 1500 bce there.

All of Britian might not have been flooded, but at the end of the glacier era, the British Isles were cut off from mainland Europe and large areas were definitely flooded.

how does your belief in some 'Gods' altering man, or people being interested in Atlantis prove it existed? just wondering

I know this is idea of England being Atlantis is new to some. If people are interested, I could spend some time, a week or two, to come up with a better argument in an article form to support this topic.

I also think your tropical paradise perception of Atlantis came from Francis Bacon's book The New Atlantis.

Pardon me, but you[ were the one claiming that Britain sank in 8.000BCE.


You mean, Britain was once an island?

LINK-> Prehistoric Britain

Yes and yes.

Britain lies at the edge of the continental shelf. Its coastline geology shows us that sea level in the past was about 100 to 150m below its present level. After the last ice age, the sea rose and flooded low-lying land, forming the North Sea and English Channel. The rate of sea level rise then slowed down and has remained constant in the last several thousand years.

The land surface can move vertically as well, causing isostatic sea level change.The British Isles are still adjusting to the removal of the ice sheet which covered most of the land surface about 20,000 years ago.

This post-glacial rebound has caused the North and West of Britain to rise, but the South East of England to sink. Isostatic changes therefore add to see level rise in the South and East and work against sea level rise in the North and West.

In the South East of England the combination of the global rise in sea level and the local sinking of the land results in sea level rises of 5.4 mm a year.

Link

As the world warmed up again, the ice continued to melt and sea level rose. 8,500 years ago, the rising sea flooded up the river valleys through the hills joining England to France.

Eventually it broke through where deeper valleys had been gouged out in the Ice Age -see map 4. Swift currents flowing between the Atlantic and the North Sea soon eroded the islands, leaving the stumps as sandbanks in the channel.
Link

I believe that all things that once existed leave an echo as it were if there existence. Bright minds, such as writers and inventors, have highly developed brains and emotional receptability. As well, the further up the ladder you go concerning geniuses and extraordinary achievers, the more delicate and sensitive they are emotionally. They can pick up emotions and percieve things normaly undetectable with normal brains. I have read a book called Strange brains and Geniuses(An excellent book) and have done much research into bright and strange minds elswere and have concluded that when a person like this places an interest in something, that something has merit worth more then the ordinary person and should be considered for more research. Harold Sidis found the Bible repulsive and was adament that it was only a story that was written and did not happen. He was in Harverd at age 11 and was lecturing to professors at the age of 12 on mathematics. He wasn't a writer like Tolkien but because he was so brilliant i believe that his failed attempt at writing a book about Atlantis means something. He was never a writer but for some reason or other he had something to say about Atlantis. If anyone can find what he wrote about it, that would indeed be an interesting find. Tolkien met with friends and they talked about Atlantis and he wrote his thoughts about it.

In conclusion i am saying that brilliant minds are drawn towords Atlantis maybe because once way back in the deeps of time a place once existed were there were minds that were far beyond any thinking mind western civilization has even dreamed about. It's as if they are reaching for it. As if it still exists somewere, somehow. In our dreams or in reality.

Man, I'd love to take time and really crack on Tolkien. Competent writer, yes, and popular, but he doesn't rank up there with the real Greats. And just because some people are intrigued by something doesn't make it true: lots of people believe in god.
And Plato doesn't really describe it like one who's been there: you can read the Timaeus or Critias and not report it as hearsay (although he may have been convinced it existed, but probably not).




Wouldn't it be nice if that was true? Faulkner, one of the premiere writers of the 20th Century, was little more than a mean drunk in his personal life. Lord Byron was a complete bastard. Christopher Marlowe died in a bar brawl.
Just because a person has a certain talent doesn't give him any special emotional value, no more than it bestows any moral responsibilty on them.

And there a /lot/ of hucksters, cheats and crooks drawn to Atlantis, too. Maybe, by your logic, it was a den of thieves.

--Jaylemurph

Read a book and understand the lives writers live. It's the book they write and not there lives that matter. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Great minds get drunk if they drink just like a thief does.

Well said.

But you were the one who said great writers all had sparkly sensitive brains. They don't; they're just people.
Sounds like someone's in their Oscar Wilde, aesthetiscism phase.


--Jaylemurph