Hello you may find these links interesting....

http://www.mcremo.com/

http://www.forbiddenarcheology.com/

http://www.humandevolution.com/

Michael Cremo is a pioneering voice on this subject, however as I've mentioned before the conculsions he comes to in regards to 'purpose' differ from ours.




- There are some that have returned to a life completely in the natural world, I for one am not ready for that stage of devolution quite yet. Also there are reasons pertaining to the macro strategy of devolution that keep many of us "connected" to the "real world" of the 21st century. Bigger picture....

- I spend time in and out of the forest, in the summer months, it isnt uncommon to find many people in this area that live for months at a time near the rivers and lakes, constantly expanding their knowledge of the natural world and what it offers them. Most people dont wish to just walk out into the forest only to starve or freeze to death and I cant find any lions around here.



Why not? What is wrong with "being like them"? A better question would be why would any species want to be like humans and belch emissions daily? Did you know that there is a city near me that pumps over 100 million liters of raw sewage into the ocean daily? Many complained wanting a treatment plant, the city built a new arena instead so they could distract people them Cher and the Bare Naked Ladies sheesh. We dont expect any help treating this problem, we know what the real problem is.



Garden of Eden shmeeden, that fantasy paradise of pristine nature everyone can run around naked in having a good time, like animals in a forest, when they die but ignore the once pristine natural world in front of their eyes when alive. No thanks.



No you do not need to leave the Earth to escape duality, or as I say our binary existence, humans take something that is One and split it into Two and call it choice. Humans confuse themselves with matters of no importance due to their desire to create false choice, choose one and call it purpose. If you believe humans have uninterrupted creativity you may want to grab the fattest history book you can find. Of course what the book won't tell you is that the "falls" in human history are in direct relation to the illusioned "rise" in history. Humans call it advancement yet it does not last, it corrupts itself until it falls apart, humans at best can create something that attempts to hold their view of reality together but in one moment nature can wipe it all away.

An example of human "creativity"; well we have turned our once clean river used for bathing into a cesspool, lets invent a bathtub and call ourselves geniuses hahaha. Humans ignore the effects of their actions and then congratulate themselves on their next action.



I would ask 'what' is a yo-yo shessh.



I belive in spirit and matter, at each end of the spectrum you will find perfection, in the middle we find ourselves drowning in our own filth. We came from the perfection of spirit, we will go to the perfection of matter, nature. Nature is the sole perfection that sits right in front of our faces yet people continue arguing about the existence of "Heaven", "God" and the existence of "spirit". Nature is the one thing neither side can argue the existence of, it is fine-tuned perfection, yet both sides typically ignore it, neglect it or abuse it.



Just a tip, not everyones response is directed at you, some people are replying to the original post.

As I have alluded to, and some may have realized, the term 'devolution' is used in relation to the existing perspective many have of the term 'evolution'. Human Devolutionists see their goal actually as evolution and the world around us as the product of the devolved. Its switched around due to the generally accepted definition of being "evolved" but what does it really mean to evolve, what is evolution?

I like this, "what drives evolution is not a quest for biological greatness but something much more down to earth: the need for organisms to survive in their environments." Change in an organism to better suite and survive in its environment..... so how are humans doing in their environment these days? So who in reality is evolving and who is devolving?

Those who are most rooted in this world view of what it means to be "advanced", "evolved", have in the past called many other cultures names like "subhuman", "primitives" or "savages" because of their way of life. Taking a quick look at some of these cultures that were considered primitive and populated by subhumans by the cultures that considered themselves the pinnacle of advancement we can see that they lived intune with their surroundings, they required nothing but what their environment offered them, they saw the effects of their actions and took these effects on their surroundings very seriously.

To truly evolve as a first step, todays world needs to look to the ways of the indigenous populations of, for instance, the Americas, Australia and Africa. These cultures knew their environment, lived off their environement and did little to no harm to their environment and were more evolved than their enemies who called them subhumans, tried to killed them off and to this day are the still the "kings" of this world, this world that many are concerned will not be the same for much longer, they are the truly devolved, their apologists are the devolved.

So my question is, if you find the idea of devolving ridiculous and obsurd how do you defend humanity's current position? Or do you believe that evolution has nothing to do with better surviving in an organisms enivornment?


Evolution.....



... or evolution....



... Ask a Human Evolutionist.

Well I will take air conditioning, tv and living in a house to living like indigenous populations. Just not very fun.

It could get very interesting to delve into the reasons a person becomes very attracted to a devolved lifestyle such as "catch" is describing. I don't know if there are any others on this board who listen to the radio program Coast To Coast AM, but one night there was an open topic line for people to call in who believe they have "non-human" souls. There was a very sincere man who said he is a shire draft horse and this is his first and probably only life as a human. He was so genuine and convincing that he was invited onto the show for an entire three hours to be interviewed.

It could be possible, perhaps, that those who like the primitivist lifestyle have "monkey" souls? That isn't meant as an insult; I have nothing against monkeys and am a great animal lover and animal rights pro-activist.

By Garden of Eden I do NOT mean running around naked like animals, nor do I mean the fantasy version in the bible where it would be "against the law" to eat an apple . I guess everyone would imagine their own interpretation of that. I meant clothed (perhaps differently than we know of on this world and perhaps not so much physically as metaphysically), cultured and living in a Utopia. No war, no pollution, no violence, lush green nature, waterfalls, flowers all around. An abundance of food for everyone, no killing of animals, etc.

And like I said, I do not believe it is on this 3rd dimensional world anywhere. If Mankind "fell" it was from a higher dimension. Alex Jones calls this a "prison planet" and I believe that's what it's really about, why we are no longer in an Edenic existence.

One more question for you, catch .22. What is the difference between your devolution viewpoint and that of Mr. Cremo?

P.S. Isn't it what you mean, though, about running around naked like animals? How else would you pick fleas off each other's backs, as you pointed out yesterday is your goal in all this?

Of cource you would, without tv you might see the world around you.




I wish I could be that convincing and get a three hour interview, heck I'd even take a few days of internet chat.

Cremo finds all the spiritual teachers of the world to be evidence that humans are destined to return to this "source", I believe if we left this source we shouldnt turn back, keep going to the perfection of base matter.



Yes it is exactly what I mean. Some people get his notion that when they die they go to this beautiful paradise with birds singing and waterfalls, well guess what its right over there getting paved with concrete to build a new Wal-Mart!

Is it a sin, under the tenets of devolutionist creed, to disarm the monkey!?

Catch thanks for the links, I will read up on this..be back with my opinion...LOL....

Well Catch, you should not really be using the computer if you believe this nonsense. You should be living in the wild the monkeys. Sounds like you would like that better anyway.

It is indeed the gravest sin of them all. I should know I was the one that created the list of 'Devolutionsry Sins'. Taking my pistol is number 1, taking any other devolutionists pistol is number 2, except as the creator of the Devolutionary Sins I am exempt from sin number 2 but no one is exempt from number 1. Have I mentioned I'm pratically the Jesus Christ of Human Devolutionary theory? Jeez all this talk of number 1s and number 2s makes me really have to go....



No problem, but dont take all of what I say as a reflection of Cremo's work, we diverged very quickly in theory. Heck I havent even finished reading his latest book 'Human Devolution' but I have really enjoyed it so far. Let me know what you think, I'll be back in a while, my favourite tv show is starting soon, can't miss it.

Can't talk now, my favorite tv show is starting soon...

Then I'm baffled as to why you said what you did about my mentioning the Garden of Eden. You said to you, human devolution isn't about running around naked like animals, right?

As to your pictures regarding "Evolution", my view is neither of those.

Then I'm baffled as to why you said what you did about my mentioning the Garden of Eden. You said to you, human devolution isn't about running around naked like animals, right?

As to your pictures regarding "Evolution", my view is neither of those.

... damn I love that show!



There must be some miscommunication going on here, human devolution is all about running around like animals. The problem I see is that people look to a life after death to frolick around paradise when they could be doing that right now, paradise is right here, except for where that new Wal Mart is being built.

Ever watch little kids playing, little animals is what they act like. They're swinging around, climbing the monkey bars, shrieking and howling, wielding sticks against each other, its a zoo I tell ya! Perhaps it is their natural state hhmmmm? Perhaps it is only the constant discipline(conform or be punished) of their parents, who were also disciplined by their parents, that takes them away from their natural state of frolicking animals? If I wasnt disciplined as a child I might be closer to the devolved state than I am now, we could all save countless years of (un)training to reach this animal state again.

Do you find the stories of feral children interesting?

http://www.feralchildren.com/en/index.php

Don't tell me. Animal planet. Right!?

Haha you got me! How did you know that?!?

I also watched some Jon Stewart, man that Stephen Colbert is hilarious!

Now I'm watching some karate chimp videos on youtube, here's a couple of them....

Video 1

Video 2

The chimp is cool but I find the trainers skullet more interesting.

Then I'm baffled as to why you said what you did about my mentioning the Garden of Eden. You said to you, human devolution isn't about running around naked like animals, right?

As to your pictures regarding "Evolution", my view is neither of those.

Well I think it is an interesting theory. It is an alternative to evolution and creation. It is interesting to hear an alternative theory. Do you believe there was an intelligence behind our devolution or do you believe it happen on its own? I believe God created us but I don't believe he created us from dirt. Maybe devolution is how he did it.

The same people who devote their hearts to an Imaginary creator. They are the ones who fall for the fairy tales, not people trying to find tangiable evidence of how we came to be.

from reading every single post on this thread... i have to conclude that the OP is just screwing with you guys... lol...

and some of you are actually trying to hold a serious debate... lol...

What makes you think this is a joke. Some people believe stuff like this.



There is some truth to this. Good and evil are relative. We only know good because evil is also present. The rules we define them by are arbitrary. People have different opinions of what is good and what is evil. What was considered to be good in the past might be considered to be evil today, and vice versa. So in a way we do have a false binary existence. There is no such thing as absolute good and evil.



This is true. Our technology (what people consider to be advancement) is destructive to the environment. It is causing acid rain, a hole in the ozone layer, and global warming. Man has a polluted our rivers and oceans. In the name of advancement man is wrecking the earth. All the technology has made people too materialistic. Our society defines success by how many material goods you own. Technology has made people greedy. Greed is one of the seven deadly sins. Science and technology has created a rat race. Knowledge is growing at an exponential rate. You need more and more education to find a descent job. Even with a college degree it doesn't ensure you employment for life. You have to keep up with all the latests developments in an ever changing field or you will become out moded. We have an epidemic of obesity because people have too many labor saving devices. They don't get enough exercise so they've grown fat. I could go on. What the world considers to be advancement is a false advancement.

Wow funny this thread made a reappearance at a time I'm actually paying attention to this section. So how has my human devolution been going these days? Well just great, I'm glad I asked.

If anyone has any questions regarding human devolution I'd be glad to answer them, and for anyone too "evolved" to understand this genius philosophy I have a big steaming pile of poo right here I would love nothing more than to fling at them.



You're absolutely right, this is NO joke and if you think this is some kind of joke you are obviously too much of a hairless bipedal primate to grasp it. With all of your fancy clothing and "i"-gadgets, oh look at me I can walk down the street wired up to five different electronic devices insuring that all five of my senses are too distracted to notice that giant gas guzzling SUV driven by some oblivious soccer mom talking on her cell phone that just ran your sorry ass over LOL! Hahahaha fools get a sixth sense like us animals LOL!!!

So what were the "evolved" of the world up to this weekend? Telling their children about how some magical anthropomorphic rabbit will be sneaking into their houses and leaving little sugary treats for the little ones to fill their fat faces with and bounce off the walls all day high on kiddy-crack! Hhhmmmmm refined sugar! A magic rabbit, kiddy-crack and eggs to celebrate 'Oh look who's back! Dead Jesus day' WTF is that all about?!?! And Valentine's Day not too long ago and Christmas before that, oh look another two "special" days all about kiddy-crack, do you see a pattern here!?! I see monotheism is working out great from you guys these days LOL! At least the pagans had the decency to run around the forest in their underpants and have holiday orgies but alas you wont find many pagans these days except for the ones with an iPod wired up to their ass and talking about some fancy crystals they found online at some cheesy goth site, uhhmm excuse me I was under the impression there would be some orgies invloved not a bunch of pimply whiners listening to whiney music while they whine on their cell phones to their whiney friends about the price of.... whiney crystals!!

Pathetic really, a sorry state you bipeds are in these days tsk tsk tsk. Nothing short of a global catastrophe can save you all now!

Curious. Do de-evolutionists believe ultimately they shall regress back to the primordial ooze, that some say evolutionists postulate as our genesis!? And what of an afterlife scenario? Any such thing? Do you believe in "sin" and ultimately, do you aspire to lose that monkey suit , walk upright and graduate your firearms training to that of the mac9?!



Plato, by the way, would have proudly given you a banana. However, Archimedes would have been a bit perplexed, to say the least. Forget him. Share your nanner, he'll be just fine.

I have a question for you about devolution. Do you believe there is an intelligence behind devolution?

Ultimately yes, regressing to primordial ooze is the goal but individually the goal of a human devolutionist would be to fully return to the animal kingdom and die like any other animal in the wild. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I wanted to be killed and eaten by a lion, but after watching youtube the other night I have changed my mind....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcdlTZGIrWo...ted&search=

... no lion I have seen can match the awesome power of this beast! This is the only way to go in my opinion.... the only way *wipes tear from eye*.

There is no sin in human devolution but the path of evolution, but I guess if you are into evolution you're not much of a devolutionist to begin with so..... uhhhmmmm...... the only sin is...... uhhmmm...... mating with an evolutionist, it could cause some serious problems when it comes time to raising the little critters.

Though it caused a great schism in the beliefs of Human Devolution, I believe in a reincarnation of sorts. If you can successfully devolve from the state you are born in to, in the next life you will come back starting from further down the evolutionary ladder than the previous state. I hope to return as a Caucasian.

I dont believe there is an intelligence behind devolution but a howling, carnal mating, animal instinct. Its easy to see that even modern "evolved" humans still find it exceptionally difficult to ignore this instict and use their "intelligence". This force is more powerful than intelligence and sexier.

Human Devolutionists, I wanted to add, do not see anything wrong with homosexuality, as proven by this video I saw "The entire jungle is packed full of gay animals". I wont directly link to the video because I saw it on a site with some pretty sexy content, I'll leave it up to you to.

I'll buy that one.

I do think its interesting how all the advancements that man has made has possibly been inspired by his primary "devolved" need for power and dominance, a very animalistic need...i think in a way this sort of backs up devolution theory*...does it not?

...over to you catch 22, can you explain?



*in saying that, our mind may well have evolved faster than our animal instinct but there is no way of knowing which is superior...i dont like wal-marts

LOL Oh that's priceless! Priceless!

I agree, Great Whites are incredible. All you have to do to go out like that is chum the waters and then back float on the surface. with your arms a bit out from your sides and you'll soon be in the next life, on your way to becoming Caucasian. What a rush! Of course, if you do come back, don't be surprised to be a bit phobic about teeth and water. It'll pass.

I believe we were all created by God, but I have no idea how he did it. I don't believe in any of the creation myths. I open to the possibility that the theory of devolution came from God. He could be trying to teach us something. We could have come from spirit. There could be some truth to it.

I think I agree with some of the things you said, if I interpretted them correctly. What did you mean by a false binary existence and what did you mean by false advancement? I'm not sure if I interpretted those two statements correctly.

I don't believe what people consider to be advancement today is really advancement. I don't believe we are living the way God wants us to live.

Sorry for the delay Animal Planet was on again.



Fine observation, humans are still very much animalistic in their needs and urges but try and hide it. Humans wage war on one another for the same reasons they always have, they just hide these reasons behind moral justifications, good vs evil, etc but in the end it is the same savagery... except the weapons of today can kill far more people at once, that is called "advancement" in todays language. If we look to the animal kingdom we can still see this tendency to wage war on one another, as with chimpanzees. In other species, we still see a "war" of sorts, lions waging war on gazelles, etc. Even down to insects we see a war being waged. Life feeds on life, this is neccessary.

But the difference is that in the animal world we dont see the lions destroying large areas of land and destroying its own ecosystem to get that pesky gazelle. A lion can manage to kill to survive without destroying its own ecosystem, humans on the other hand destroy their own ecosystem so they can sit around being lazy and "advanced"(watching porn[among other animal urges]). This is not natural, if we could have porn without destroying ecosystems we may be on to something lol.



I knew you'd like that one. And thanks for the visual, floating on my back going "ooooohhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm" until POW!! A blood and entrail explosion!!




By false binary existence I mean good and evil, etc. We do not find these concepts in the animal world. Killing, stealing, etc are to a lion methods of survival, to an animal survival is the point, humans call killing and stealing "wrong" but continue killing and stealing everything they want for advancement which is "good" even at the cost of destroying our environment which is "bad" "ignored" lol.

By false advancement I mean, like the weapons example above, people argue that finding the cure for some illness is advancement but do they ever consider that allowing the weak to survive is going against the way the balance is maintained? Society spends untold resources(at the cost of the enivornment) to insure that the weak can survive, whereas in the wild the weak would be nothing more a rotting carcas and a scavenger's dinner. What is called advancement is actually deterioration, what is called evolution is actually devolution. When I say devolution I actually mean evolution, it is only today's society that views things opposite of what they are.