"Evolution is a fairy tale for grownups." Dr. Louis Bounoure, Director of the Zoological Museum and Director of Research at the National Center of Scientific Research in France.

I am a believer in 'Human Devolution', we as believers of human devolution believe that humans are not the product of evolution from apes but the product of spiritual devolution from pure consciousness/spirit. This should not be confused with the other fairy tale that claims humans were created by God from dirt. 'Dirt' being a metaphor for 'matter' of course, sounds too much like evolution to me, came from dirt/apes haha who seriously believes this stuff?!?

We believe humans came from spirit, devolved from spirit and descended into this world of matter. We are not simply evolved apes or God's creations of matter spiritually seeking out "heaven", "enlightenement" or to return to the "source", we are a product of the "source". That is why so many crave and strive to return to this source, out of fear and confusion many simply wish to return to their "mother" and again suckle her "tit"(pronounced 'teet') in safety and comfort. Well grow up mama's boy! It doesnt happen in this world it doesnt happen in the other, we dont grow up only to cry for mommy again here or there!

We as humans are not destined to return to this source nor are we spritually evolving back to this source. While so many live their lives trying to return to this source that we came from some of us, the human devolutionists, have asked ourselves, if we came from this source what's the point in spending our time trying to return to this source, shouldn't our goal be to continue to move away from this source? We believe so. What purpose does it serve to leave "home" only to spend all your time away from "home" trying to get back "home"?

Our goal, the goal of human devolutionists, is to continue devolving, using our closest natural "relative" in nature as guidance, to a life of swinging in trees and picking and eating the fleas of each others backs. Then and only then can we truly succeed and become one with the natural world. To the oblivion of nature, where our false binary existence of good and evil, right and wrong, Coke and Pepsi, heaven and hell will no longer twist us and turn us into schizophrenics armed with nuclear weapons asking what's the purpose of it all? Our purpose is to bridge the gap between pure spirit and pure matter not to be the yo-yo of the divine, spinning around and around, getting confused and sick only to return to the hand that will spin us again and again. Our purpose is to ground spirit in matter, to close the circuit and provide an uninterrupted, endless path for the flow of current between the two.

But we, human devolutionists, know that the world will not be able to see it our way, they will not see the purpose of it, they will continue on striving for "advancement" not seeing where this false advancement has gotten them, the owners of their very own globo-sewer. We do not seek to convince them of anything, knowing that through their own error they will do the work for us, we sit back and watch the world kick itself in the nuts again and again just waiting for it to fall.

This is just silly. It requires too much faith and not enough proof.No sale.

Here we go, another evolutionist versus creationist debate. . . . . *Sigh*

This got boring after the tenth thread on the subject.

I don't even know where to begin on this.. how can anyone call a researched scientific theory with plenty of evidence and proof.. a fairy tale? To do so is to deny the validity of the findings of a multitude of scientists that are clearly more reasonable than you. Nobody's calling our orbit around the sun a fairy tale, nobody's laughing in contempt when you say there's other stars like our sun out there, not that either are something you can really see firsthand, we just know they're correct because of all the scientific research and evidence. We know that when organisms reproduce, there are always slight genetic variations or mutations. That's why you don't look exactly like your parents. Sigh.. in an age when we can send ourselves to the moon and beyond.. see millions and millions of lightyears away, push a button and end millions of lives, we still have herds of people calling scientific theories a fairy tale and invoking their own paranormal explanation with no evidence or reason to support it?

"This should not be confused with the other(evolution) fairy tale that claims humans were created by God from dirt."

You got boring pretty quick too *sigh*

Actually this is nonsense and a complete misquote and he isn't and never has been a member of CNRS (National Center of Scientific Research.) He was not a director of the Zoological museum anywhere either, he was a proffesor of Biology at Strasbourg Uni and although he was a christian he never took Genesis literally.

Have fun with that

Interesting, but no thanks.

to be honest when i read this i thought it was some kinda 'spoof' theory...is catch.22 serious or trying to give us a giggle?

Uhmm the thread is called 'Ask a Human Devolutionist', yet I haven't seen any questions thus far. Maybe I should have titled it, 'Post you stupid replies here' hahaha.

If this was a joke it would have started off "Knock knock...."

Well it would help if your opening paragraph was not complete rubbish.

I don't think putting "Evolution is a fairy tale for grownups." in the title helped.



I've never liked those jokes

That wasnt a paragraph it was a quote, sheesh

No the whole first paragraph is false. All two lines the quote and the background, it is still a paragraph

You really need to devolve dude, you're a little uptight by the sounds of it.

I thought it had done, though it was the 'coke and pepsi' line that caught me

If devolving is your aim you might like to know that you appear to be several centuries behind everyone else already...

You liked that one? Its a sure sign you're on the path of devolution, congratulations!

Why would anyone want to devolve?

Maybe they like...I have no idea

Well, considering where we are now in our global state, it can't be any worse than what we've manifest in pandemic AIDS, world wars, environmental degradation and ruin, etc...

In the spirit of the thread, re: ask a human devolutionist: What is the ultimate goal or finale' of a HD?

Devolution:
A passing down or descent through successive stages of time or a process.
Transference, as of rights or qualities, to a successor.
Delegation of authority or duties to a subordinate or substitute.
A transfer of powers from a central government to local units.
Biology Degeneration.

OMG a real question pertaining to devolutionary theory!

Humans strive for the best, perfection and efficiency in their general actions. They find a system of governance that they deem the best and the most efficient and put it on a pedestal for others to strive for. They create machines to be efficient and improve on them continuously in search of perfection. They idolize other humans that symbolize the most attractive, perfection or most talented and others strive to be as they are. Yet if humans were to add no or limited waste/corruption to these ideals they strive for they would see they are complete failures. Their best system of governance is riddled with corruption, their best machines leave oil slicks and waste behind, their idolized celebrities in the grand scheme of things are talentless and are rewarded for nothing with immunity to laws that others are not simply because their faces are recognized.

Only by eliminating waste/corruption from the ideals they strive for can they even pretend they are doing anything "best". One look at nature we quickly see the limitless perfection, efficiency and waste management of the one "best" thing humans can never compare with or duplicate that is right in front of their faces. Devolutionists postulate that by returning to nature, throwing ourselves back into the natural order, which I think we can all agree on we are not a part of at this time, can they achieve the perfection they pretend to strive for daily. By devolving, devolutionists will return to the real perfection that humans trample everyday with little regard for its role in sustaining their very existence. Devolutionists see their goal as the true evolution while the world killing itself is in reality devolution. So I ask, why do humans want to devolve? Devolve into parasites, cancers and an incurable disease plaguing the natural perfection of the world?

Brave New World, who would have thought it? I am in complete agreement with you.

OMG two questions!

Minus the devolutionists daily purpose or goal, the ultimate goal or finale would be to have a purpose in death, a real purpose. To give back to life through death, to further the natural order. I, as one human devolutionist speaking for himself, would like to be eaten by a lion...



To turn death into life and return to the natrual order.

A clear indication that you are wrong too.

Hello catch .22,

I think you have a very reasonable presentation here. I have heard Michael Cremo speak of this, and have read some of his works. He is a qualified archaeologist and writer, so this cannot just be dismissed off-hand as another "inconvenient truth". I, too, lean towards believing that we are points of awareness within infinite consciousness who are maturing a physical vehicle through which to have experiences, and through which to manifest the attributes of "the One" or "Source".

I have a question to put forth to you, since that is the purpose of this thread, as you have stated.

In saying that humans do not come from apes, where do humans come from, where do apes themselves come from? Why do humans have "tail bones" the way apes have? Perhaps we have all come from "panspermia"?

Also, I have read an interesting article, not that it's very well written, but has concepts to be pondered, at http://world.std.com/~snet/lovewill.htm

I'd be most interested if we could all be patient enough to let catch .22 give his/her own answer to this.

The title is, unfortunately, misleading. When I first saw it, I thought it meant that humans "are" devolving and becoming more animalistic and violent.

However, I now understand it means Consciousness "devolves" into matter and brings matter up to the "level of" Consciousness, as a process.

You must want your last moments to be filled with the sound of your own screams! Lions don't kill and then eat. They subdue and begin eating their prey while it's still alive.

I'd rather when I die, to be placed on a sun pyre and left to truly return to that old adage about ashes to ashes , dust to dust. Only rotting, bit at a time. I got the idea reading someone's old posts on this forum. Not a bad idea. Beats hell out of being embalmed with chemicals, like some human taxidermy specimen. So people can walk past an overpriced silk lined box and make the absurd statement: She looks so natural! Hell, if so what did she look like alive!? Ack!

Micael Cremo is a brave and intelligent guy, his work on human devolution is excellent. However to what purpose we as humans serve in this grand scheme, his and our views seperate.

Humans came from pure consciousness, we have devolved from spirit into matter, we postulate that if devolution was our origin, devolution is our goal. Why do we have tail bones? Why do we have fingers? Apes have fingers as well as dogs have "toes". Functionality is our blueprint in the physical. Pehaps when humans first devolved onto Earth we looked different but through devolution we took on a more and more natural appearance more suited to the world.



I will read over your link when I have time, thanks.

I have heard of something new called "green cemeteries". They use bio-degradable caskets and do not embalm the body that is buried. Everything goes back to the earth.

This makes sense, especially since the longer the earth goes on, and the longer humans inhabit it and are buried the conventional way, the more and more the earth will be filled with burial grounds that do not dissolve themselves naturally.

I think he says, if I'm not mistaken, that it's the role of humans to try and remove the "overlay" of physicality which is an illusion put upon Consciousness.



Well, we 'use' our fingers and toes for a purpose, but not our tail bones. If we have them, were they once in use by us?

catch 22 let me be the first to thankyou for putting up something original, i do not feel i know all there is to know and thus dismiss anything new, (hyper remeber the vegan thread) ... ...., i have to tell you this is very interesting, don't b e discouraged .... in this world , changing ideas or looking at new ideas is met with scorn....i would say evolution does go in both diretions....I too think evolution is grossly misunderstood and distorted by mainstream relgion.....


do you have a link for this i'd be interested in reading what you have...then give an opinion....

oh welcome to Um Catch, do you have a reference or woudl you recommend a book on this...thanks...

My questions then are:

How can you call yourself a "devolutionist" if you are using a 21st century technology?

Shouldn't you be living in a forest somewhere as is our closest natural relative?

And no, I am not being a wiseguy.

It is common knowledge that a percentage of babies are born with a "tail" which is cut off at birth.....a very low percentage but it still does exist.

Well, I draw the line much further along than that! If we didn't evolve from apes, why would we want to "devolve" to being like them?



The oblivion of nature? Where would we live at that point? Personally, I think we belong in the Garden of Eden, and I don't think it is in this dimension.

Yes, agree with you here, at least in principle. Perhaps the particulars would be something else, though?



What does it say about the human being to be born with a tail?

"IT" says nothing....I was stating a fact.
I may have read your reply wrong....were you talking to me or someone else?

Have any source data for that common fact gator?

Genetic Throwbacks

"Genetic storage is a nuance of evolution too often ignored. Many paleontologists believe that when a bone disappears in evolution, the genetic blueprint for that bone is also erased.... But in fact evolution does not occur in this fashion. Hoatzin's ancestors never lost the genetic blueprint for producing Archaeopteryx-style clawed fingers. Recent advances in genetic research reveal that most species carry such blueprints that are "switched off" and can't express their code as fully formed tissue. In other words, when an organ has been "lost," most of the time its blueprint is still there, in genetic storage.

A wealth of evidence supports this theory of re-expression by genes that have been turned off for millions of years. Most of it occurs in throwbacks, the rare appearance of ancient organs in species that, as a whole, had lost the anatomical features millions of generations earlier.

A good example is multi-toed horses. Modern horses belong to the same general group as tapirs, and tapirs have four toes on each forefoot. The single-toed modern horse evolved from a four-toed ancestor. Every so often a healthy, normal, single-toed mare gives birth to a colt that has little extra toes sticking out beside the big main toe. Zoologists point to this multi-toed foal as a case where natural processes allow a bit of the ancestral blueprint to show through, letting ancient ancestral traits re-express themselves.

Whales offer a more spectacular case. Modern whales have no hind legs at all, and even when all the blubber and muscle are flensed from the hip region, there is no remnant of the hip bones except a small splint representing the ilium. Even the oldest-known fossil whales display only slightly enlarged hip bones and some remnants of thigh and knee. But way back in their ancestry whales did have big hind legs, at a stage when they were land-living predators. And every once in a while a modern whale is hauled in with a hind leg, complete with thigh and knee muscles, sticking out of its side. These atavistic hind limbs are nothing less than throwbacks to a totally pre-whale stage of their existence, some fifty million years old.

Such throwbacks even occur in human infants. Hospitals occasionally register an entirely modern-looking baby characterized by all the expected organs, plus an unexpected tail, a long, caudal appendage protruding beyond the buttocks for two or three inches. Some of these tails are even bigger than the average caudal remnant displayed by our close kin, the chimps, gorillas, and orangutans.

Birds with teeth may have appeared ridiculous to creationists, but in point of fact modern birds do carry the ancestral genetic code for making teeth tucked away in their inactive file. No living species of bird manufactures teeth. But recent surgical manipulations of bird embryos demonstrate clearly that the potential is still there. In 1983, experimenters transplanted tissue from the inner jaw (dental lamina) of an unhatched chick to an area of the body tissue, where the graft could grow. In the transplanted position, the chick's dental lamina started to produce tooth buds! Birds with teeth could grow right in the twentieth century."

- Robert T. Bakker, The Dinosaur Heresies, pp.314-316, New York: William Morrow and Company, 1986

Actually they're known as vestigial (useless) organs. The human tail. Report of a case of coccygeal retroposition in childhood

*graphic imagery* humans with tails

Thanks for the info & links gator & GW






ooops. Got my goddesses mixed up...

buh? I've been staying out of this!

You are certainly welcome....

I fixed it

No problem. ~wags tail~ But only when I'm happy.

well i guess having a harem may be alot of work lol

I could use some clarification on this. I either don't understand or just don't agree, and would like to find out which.

Wouldn't you need to completely leave the earth in order to escape duality? And... if the purpose of our being here is to provide an uninterrupted, endless path for the flow of current between spirit and matter, what does it do to continued, uninterrupted, endless creativity and human progress (to be used only for the good, of course, and not for violence, pollution or destruction) to devolve to the point of apes swinging in trees, and then force it to stay there?

Ummm...if you are a schizo armed with nuclear weapons I don't think its right to put everyone in your category...
I would ask who's a yo yo?

Do you believe in:

1 God?
Many Gods?
A representative God composed of many Gods?

Nope