Yes, I am 12 (I've also apparntly "profoundly gifted" which probably means I not as easy to "brainwash" but that's not the point) but I take my religon very seriously. I've learnt all I can about it, I've spoken with friends who arn't religous about this (some who were quite a lot older then me, so have had more insight into the matter) in quite a lot of depth, and I've even studied other religons to be sure I've chose the right path....And I truly believe I have.

Well I am happy,seriously, if it gives you something, that's great for you. BUT those that mean your path is necessarily right for everyone else and should they be forced into it without having a choice? Shouldn't everyone find his own way and would it not be more rewarding to find your path by yourself? wouldn't you learn more on the way?

The Anglican church actually admitted to that apparantly....

I would rather die then live in a world unter their rule. After the lessons of the past, I fully believe that a world under any christian church can't be a better place filled with peace and love.

This may sound antichristian... but it's realism. I don't care what people worship. I really don't. But when it gets to this point where they're training kids and others to go out and try and force their faith on others... *THAT'S* the issue.


*edit* typos are FUN! *goes to make coffee to prevent further typos*

Then you should at least have enough common sense to realize that some leaders in your religion are brainwashing children. I understand that you a trying to defend your faith, but maybe you should look at it like we are. Ask yourself this question:"Is this lady screaming at confused children?"

I have never been told that...I've been warned that if I don't ask for forgivness for my sins God will be "disappointed in me" but I've never been screamed that if I don't believe that



How do you know that those children hadn't been told what was wrong about thier sins before? There are sins that young children can commit, they could talk against God to fit in with thier school friends...

I've never been taught to believe that, and I don't think theres any evidence that the kids in the video have been taught that either...I know that jehovah witnesses are taught that non-believers go to Hell, but not Christians...



I can remember that comment about creationism , but I'll take your word for it. But like I said, they do take it to more extremes to most Evangelicals. And the fact is, if you don't regret your sins you do go to Hell (well, obviously there are some people who don't believe in any of it at all) and thats just the way it is.



I have not been taught that, though it's possible some Christians have, I suppose. Beliefs vary from family to family. It is a sin to worship another God over Jesus or the Lord though...But would that apply to atheists? Hell is the worst thing you can possibly imagine...Hell is the opposite of Heaven, it's just the fact that there always has to be a balance of good and evil, not just one or the other.

I think young children should follow the religon that there parents teach them, but I think it's fine that if they reach the age of say 13 (the average age for confirmation) and decide they don't want to be a part of the religon, then they shouldn't be forced to.



She's just telling them what she believes! Really, in the end all she is trying to do is save these kids from being sent to Hell...Look at it that way.

It's been said in these forums before. Children do not possess critical thinking skills. They believe what their parents, etc... tell them. Children want to please and when someone tells them the myth of jesus and brings them into an environment, like unto that featured in the jesus camp video, they become enthralled with the energy and the influence, because they're told, there is a difference between right and wrong and believing in jesus is right. So they do. Do they fully understand what they're committing to!? No. Do the believe and do what they're told, especially when/if their parents are the role model for compliance to such material!? Yes.

I to would rather die than live under an evangelical regime. But I'd also rather send a few of them to their savior, before they take the life I'm willing to give to insure freedom in my country includes freedom from psychotic myth mongers. People imagine this campaign is benign, I assure you it isn't. One has not far to search to realize these people are very very serious in their zeal because they first believe their immortal soul depends on compliance. When one first accepts that, anything after is possible for the preservation and protection of that which they accept as imperiled by not complying.

I've had occasion to attend a great number of communities and witness various philosophies, in my life. And I'll tell you that nothing chills one to the core so much as to have a child look you in the face and tell you you're going to hell. Nothing in this world can prepare one for that face that stares up at you and says that in all candor and then proceeds to speak as if they're older than their years and are fully confident their jesus compels that discrimination against fellow human beings. It's amazing, to kneel down and look into that little face, and see the glassy look in the eye, the emotions color the cheeks and that tiny hand clutch a King James.

And all the while, I knew this baby child didn't realize that in his day, King J. bathed in the blood of his enemies. Raped children, had sex with his mother and animals and was the poster child for every sin of the faith. But that sickness is not appropriate for a child to learn, nor to hear as one attempts to reason with a young mind that is already programmed beyond the reach of reason. It's a horrific generation , radical evangelicals are fostering for our future. It can not be tolerated in the name of freedom of religion, because there is a right to be free from religion also. It can not be tolerated in the name of freedom of speech, because speaking hate, separatism and violent oppression is not speaking of freedom from that agenda of myopic intolerance.

What can be done is to discuss the issue, not buy the DVDs or the theater tickets, so as to sponsor and propagate the movement to oppress people in the name of a warped ideal of christian morality and one world order, under their style of god. When a pro-life terrorist scopes and executes a doctor, the contrary nature of the act speaks for their individual faith. Convert, obey, or die! What would jesus do? He'd weep and then he'd tell them , unless they repented their wickedness, they were doomed. But since jesus can not speak, and these vicious zealots seek to speak on the corrupted ideology on his behalf, it is incumbent on reasonable people to speak against the terrorism that promotes it's platform in the shadow of a capital punishment device, (the cross) , that would very well be erected yet again, if some evangelicals had their way, so as to set an example to all "sinners" , that their vision of god is that of a terrorist.

well, there you go, in my eyes that is in now way comparable to what these children are being put through. As I said, I have no real problems with religious upbringing, if this is what these people think is the right way, fine with me. but being told 'god will be disspointed' or 'you will goto hell',are two very different things, especially if the latter is being propagated in the way it is int this clip.

I am not saying children cannot commit 'sins' in the religious context, what I am saying is, for one thing they cannot really be held accountable til a certain age as young children will not fully understand the extend of their actions, they may be able to recite what is bad and what is good and what salvation and redemption is but I doubt they truly understand.

And that is good, although Ithink you will find a few christians that will disagree with that, however this is exactly what is happening to these kids at Jesus Camp!

But there are less violent ways of teaching that. You certainly do not have to yell at young and vulnerable children repeatedly that they will go to hell, yes they will, yes they definately will go to hell if they do not do this or that. you can sit down and explain it to the child or simply reinforce good behaviours and bad behaviours and then at an older age tell them in a sensible way that if they sin and do not regret it they will go to hell.There is however no reason to terrorise young children and making them afraid of god in that way, is it?

I personally never understood hell, you go to hell if you sin, satan leads you to temptation and wants you to sin, so why would he punish you for it if you are actually doing his work ie. sinning? Never got that. I'm not spiritual but I cannot believe that if there is a god he would let people who have commited crimes but regretted them into heaven but not good people who are not religious...but that is my opinion..

We what people might call "modern day" Evangelicals. We don't believe in every single thing, but we mostly follow the Evangelical way of life. There are certain parts of the bible (and i mean it when I say this) that my parents don't even allow to read, or don't agree with. There are actually quite a number of Evangelicals that don't live "by the book." I'm a massive Harry Potter fan, if though the Bible says that magic and Warlocks are wrong and against God.


Were not all over the top future terriosts...But I don't believe the people are featured in Jesus Camp are either.

Ummm..."profoundly gifted" in which way?

Yet you continue to defend their position. I do apologize though for assuming that you were actually supporting what was being done in this clip.

If I child swore at you, when you had clearly told them never to use that word or they will be punished, would you let them get away with it? I'm not saying punish them really harshly, but you would punish them in some way, to teach them right and wrong, right?

I don't actually know, I don't even really agree in marking children as gifted because I think it makes them think they're more important then normal people. A woman came to my school a few years ago, gave us a an IQ test, asked us strange questions like what we thought about perfection and if we believed in capital punishment and things like that, then just sent a letter to our parents. Like I say, I don't really agree with it.

I won't give the kid much more than calmly spoken a verbal reprimand.

Public school...or religious school?

This was back in public school...I only started going to a religous school last year.

Does Becky Fischer scream at the kids? No, she just says (quite harshly and seriously, I must admit) that they had done wrong and that they should wash away thier sins.

It sounds like you were being recruited.

I'll have to ask more questions later...right now I have to head out to work.

Yes but I wouldn't tell him that he had an eternity of torment ahead of him, yelling does not help either apparantly, not that I would nkow I don't have children and don't plan on havig any but I read some articles on child development a while ago, positive reinforcement is more efficient, so rewarding good behaviours and as far as possible ignoring bad behaviours or calmly telling the child if it does not stop/apologise whatever there will be consequences and stick to what you say. Loud or violent behaviour rarely yields results.



It's good to hear people do not accept everything at face value and can view their belief and what it goes by critically to some extent. From what you have said, you and your beliefs are quite different from what goes on at Jesus Camp.
However I disagree, the people at Jesus camp may not be future terrorists but they are indoctrinated in a way very similar, and that awful woman even admits to it and says more people should work like that! She keeps going on about how this is what should be done here and that they should be prepared to die for their belief, that is what terrorists are taught as well!

Maybe you wouldn't tell your children that they were spend an eternity in Hell, but the people in Jesus Camp believe that the childern WILL go to Hell if they sin. I think there just trying to make sure they don't end with that fate.

That movie is ridiculous and I feel sorry for all the children that are involved in it. The parents are even more sick for sending them.

But you have to remember, it's thier religon, it's what they believe in.

Yes, and that's the sad part.

Yes but this is known to cause psychological damage. It affects brain and even physical development. It is enforcement and recruitment, it is not teaching, it is indoctrination. Forcing a belief upon someone else. This is wrong. They are also damaging there education. Teaching that the world is 6000 years old! It is proven that it is at least 4.5 billion years old, that is an incomprehensible difference. It is enforced ignorance on top of pyschological abuse.

And this is the point that I rather don't get.

Yes, it's their religion.. and we have to respect that. However, why is it alright, then, for them to be tought lies and misconceptions about other religions, and tought that as "warriors of god" that they are to make sure everyone worships their god and not to respect other peoples religions?

It's basicaly broken down to someone crying.. "Stop disrespecting my beliefs! Stop persacuteing me based on my religion!!" Then turning around and saying... "If you don't believe in my god, you're going to hell!! All people who are not like me are evil and sinners!!"

That's bloody annoying, and is what's going on here. They want people to respect them for thier faith in their god... yet they're teaching their kids to disrespect and hate other faiths.

How is it that I should give them respect, when they're not going to show me the same back?

So a 5 year old can make thier own descions about thier religon? I could understand if we talking about a teenagers, but I don't think we are...

And I understand what you mean about teaching that the earth is 6000 years old. You'd be suprised, but not that many Christians actually believe that...I was taught, for example, that even though God created the world in six days, it wasn't six days as we know it. Each day could be the equivalent of a millon years or more...Again, it's an example that not all Christians believe in the same things.

The only thing I can say to you, is only give them respect if they give it to you, and just know that all Christians arn't like that. It really upsets me how people are getting bad views of Christians because of the few who think they're better the other people.

Yes but you turned out religious without those methods didn't you? So those methods are clearly not necessary and these methods are in fact damaging to the child's development!
I do respect people's beliefs but only as long as they do not hurt anyone and in this case it is my belief that innocent and vulnerable children are being subjected to psycho-terror that is damaging to their welfare.

Yeah is a great credit to christianity!@! I dont consider that christian. Anyone who takes the bible literally i dont consider christians. Give me a christian mystic or gnostic anyday!@! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I know so many christians like in this post. And their indoctrination shows on many thread!@!

Overall a good post and eye opener.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YEAH I LOVE THE LINE ON GEORGE BUSH DOING ALOT FOR CHRISTIANITY!!!@!!!

As it's sad that some christians who deserve respect seem to think that when someone is talking about a single sect and their actions.. that they mean all christians.

I've always been the "give me respect, you get it back" type. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it, but usually it's by certain people who come about and bash my faith then act surprized when I ... basicaly show them the same respect. X)

I don't understand this post...

And Cetacea....I understand what you are saying, but to me, most of the time these kids seem happy with whats happening in thier life....And I havn't grown up with all of the "methods" they use, but I have with a few of them, and I think I'm perfectly fine...I suppose it depends of how emotionally vunerable the child is.

I was given the choice. My parents, despite not being religious themselves made me attend religion classes in school until I was about 12 to give me a choice. when I was younger I had the choice whether I wanted to hear stories from the childrens bible or other story books, I grew up making these decisions and was offered both choices, was introduced to both ways of thinking, I was never forced into anything (well safe being baptised as a baby...) so when I was old enough I then made my choice after being introduced to both ways of thinking. Yes i may have been biased as non of my family were particularly religious but they would have supported me if i had wanted attend church, I could have participated in religious after school activitites if i wanted to, I could have gone to church. The point is I was not forced into anything but allowed to make my own decisions and experiences.

tHEY ARE KEPT HAPPY BY THE HIGH oops caps, they are kept happy with the high level of emotionalism. Unless you really do believe that it is because they are feeling the holy ghost???

I just don't feel that young children are mature enough to make that descion....I mean, you can't let a young child make all there choices in thier life, adults have to interfere with some things or things just don't turn out right....That's just how I feel about it, though.

I just feel that they're happy because they are happy with what's going on in thier life.

OMFG! THESE PEOPLE ARE A ****ING CULT! NOT CHRISTIANS AT ALL! PEOPLE ONLY SPOKE IN TOUNGES ONCE AND THAT WAS AT THE PENTACOST! WHO WILL STOP THESE PEOPLE FROM BRAINWASHING THE CHILDREN!

Is there any need to act so aggressive about it? Also, I think you'll find that out most Churchs there will be people speaking in tongues.

Indeed, they are a cult. But they are also a very powerful voting lobby and advocacy faction. They're also a major commercial industry, if the "Left Behind" series is any indicator. To hear tell it, the Authors of that series published the books because they felt there was a call for a return to evangelical values in America. And unfortunately, when our commander in chief is aligned with the agenda these cult members are selling, it bodes a frightful future for freedom from religion.

You are so young and naive. I just hope that if you have children that wont allow them to be subjected to this kind of thing.

Your actually acting a little naive yourself assuming I don't know what I'm talking about...I'm not trying to offend you, I'm just saying that your being really hasty...

On the plus side, it has apparantly been shut down: "In November 2006, Fischer announced that she would be shutting down the camp indefinitely due to negative reaction to the film. [3] According to Fischer's website [4], the owners of the property used for the camp shown in the film were concerned about vandalism to the premises following the film's release and thus will not allow it to be used for any future camps. Fischer has said that the camp will be indefinitely postponed until other suitable premises can be found, but it will be back" (from Wiki

Fleur de lis, As for children being to young to make these decisions I personally feel they are too young to adequately comprehend and accept faith and concepts as sin and salvation into their lifes as well...I feel if you grow up knowing both sites rather than being forced in one direction you will be able to make a decision based on more experiences and therefore a better one.

They'll probaly find another place to hold it... and this time, not draw attention to themselves like this again.

I heard from somebody that they've moved the camp to another site and it will be opening again this summer...

rofl.. called it!

Hehe, yeah, you did.

There is no way that camp was gonna be met with approval, these ideas are meant for any civilized society.... the bible belt lives in a vaccum thier ideas are distorted and would never achieve maiinstream not these days..the visions of these folks are grandiose and delusional ... Religion is on the decline not growing thats what I found funny, the bible belt is the last of the fundies....

But if you had made it clear to them that they weren't to say it, you would still let is go unnoticed?

this is jsut silly, i would not have this issue or have.... nor if i did punish my child for a slang word.... There is a context for all verbal expressins that is what would be shared , i beleive this is a sin to say a slang word, next you are gonna tell me you would deserve to be punished.....