What do you think of the link below.

If this is where we are heading as human beings..where finished!!!


brainwashing

And they breed!

~lifts hands to her sides, in a scales like fashion~ Man evolved from apes, that share about 98% of our DNA, or man was made from dirt. Hmmmm, decisions decisions! The bible is the history book of the Universe. Ignorance votes. If one believes that George Bush gained 80% of the evangelical vote to get back into office, I'd say we're already doomed. Oh, thats right, looking back on the years since 2000 that would be obvious.

That is horrific brainwashing bull. No wonder the standard of biological sceince teaching is declining so rapidly in the US

Forget horror movies, that must have been one of th scariest video clips I've ever seen.....

EDIT: just seen the footage on Jesus Camps, which is even scarier, however this still takes second place...

While I don't think the decline in education standards in the us dropping is brain washing, I would be more inclined to say that it is a deliberate attempt to dumb down this and future generations. A lot of graduates who finish highschool now only have the equiv to a grade 8 education and by age 9 are already 3 grades behind what they are supposed to be. This happens mostly in inner city public schools while schools in middle to rich class areas get all the funding.



The Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells have a lot of influence and all support Bush. The eveangelical leaders are a bunch of fascists who have stated that they beleive George Bush will be involved with the end times etc. These guys say that only men and women of their beleifs are fit leaders etc and should rule. I am sure if they could do it their way nukes would have obliterated the middle east by now.

I was not refering specifically to this, but things like that video and ID have had an effect on the American education system has meant that biology especially and science in general has suffered seriously.
Science teaching report US 2005

Scary!

Friends of god a road trip, this is from that documentary, Hubby and i watched it last night , this part is just silly..They have no understanding of evolution and it shows in their distorted teachings..If it ain't in the bible it aint' so..Religion at this expression is the preacher of dysfunction, it has no comprehension of what is natural , its using a book of nursery fables, bush is almost out of office ,...Pastor haggard the mouth piece resigned due to his homosexuality, wow did he have alot to say about the abominations of being gay....Lets not forget this is the bible belt pretty much, the only place on the planet that hasnt' grown.up...Sort of like the weird relatives we know they have kooky ideas yet as ;long as they don't bother anyone,these aren't he hottest vacation spots either, florida would be the only one... ..........I want to say too i do know alot of relgious folks and few are like this, now possibly the area I'm in California, its very diverse, the entertainment industry is here they will have none of it...New York isn't this way either......its a mentality these folks have never been exposed to anything else thats what you see, they have kept them dumbed down.........

Actually, my grandparents do kinda look like apes!

Hmm, and if someone who was extremely intelligent and wise could have decided, "I think I will make animals that are similar enough to man, so that man can study them and gain understanding of themselves, and experiment on them without hurting themselves, and at some point their technology will be advanced enough at a molecular level that they will be able to use these animals to heal themselves." The fact that we are so similar to other animals in no way disproves the existence of God.


Actually, the decline in our educational system began after we removed prayer from the schools, when we moved away from the Christian value of taking responsibility for our actions and began telling kids they could be themselves, when we began to worry that a red-ink mark on a paper was harmful to the psyche of a poor, helpless child and began using purple ink. The issue of educational decline is NOT the fault of Christianity it is the fault of communist-based liberalism.

It's sad to see the toll Christianity is taking on our citizens and how it is effecting the progress of our country. I'm all for practicing whatever religion you want but it has no place in politics (or schools) because it's only therefore used as a tool. Just look at what's going on today, it's time to face the facts.

And yet, nothing proves the existence of god, save the faith that makes it so. Animals do not have a god and they're less dysfunctional than we, so really who's striving to rise above their nature!? We that think it's a sin to be so invested, or animals that live the truth of who they are without regret something unseen may be watching and not approve!?

Actually, the decline in our educational system began after we removed prayer from the schools, when we moved away from the Christian value of taking responsibility for our actions and began telling kids they could be themselves, when we began to worry that a red-ink mark on a paper was harmful to the psyche of a poor, helpless child and began using purple ink. The issue of educational decline is NOT the fault of Christianity it is the fault of communist-based liberalism.


wow son, do you realize what you are saying, it sounds as if you are very exterme right....

son you have no idea why the system is failing hon.....the above is filtered through the generic "if only everyone would follow the values of the bible prattle (lets not forget relgion has had the floor and look at where they have taken humanity) the standard of value of the teachings is not of benefit to any one who seeks to be civilzed, peaceful and loving human being, now not all seek this, some want to discriminate and hate and shun and kill others for not beleiving as they do... ....to say one should not be encouraged to be themselves in the case of relgion I can see that would be a good idea...
To encourage a child beyond a certain point to beleive in pretend can't be the best for a kid....


if one is told they are of sin and an abomination before god how do you think they will act????If you tell a child he is worthless what would he have to aspire too.....the teachings are from a savage primitive time that they had no understanding on being human..Look into the mental frame of mind around the inception of these teachings....they arent' what is best for these times but of course you should be who you are...

so it wasn't your choice to be christain then, based on this post one who was forced into this may say these things.. so I have asked you many times if you thought you had a chocie would you choose this to guide you, i ask you again....


the school system, the strides forward they have made are for the benefit of all, preaching has no place in teaching..... it is not for ones best to be told they are worthless and losers and will go to hell unless they do what you say...., it seems you have no contrast only the relgious life style.... .We are growig up as a humanity and its a good thing, have you ever experinced anything outside of relgion????? There is nothing to fear for being yourself son actaully you would find that you are a beautiful unconditonal loving man who would not seek to stip one of thier own uniqueness and expresion as a human , you wouldn't seek to automate anyone...the dogma is at core a fear construct based in fear of oneself, its easy to miss that when one is in it.....

What a complete load of nonsense. If you want religion in school go to a religious school, you do not force you religion upon everyone in a public school and break your constitution. Do you think praying is goign to make your children more capable in school? Clearly it is not. It is an out dated curiculum and recently idoits claiming that creationism is a viable alterantive to evolution which is dumbing down the American education system, it protesting books on religious grounds, it is the appalling scientific teaching in the bible belt and Florida.
ID has had a terrible detrimental effect on scientific teaching in the US sending education of biology backwards.
If you want Christian values go to church, they do not belong in education.

on the bright side, iams, public schooling in Kansas has improved.

Kansas schools dump 'intelligent design'
JOHN HANNA
Associated Press
TOPEKA, Kan. — Kansas has repealed public-school science guidelines questioning the theory of evolution that brought the state international ridicule, but educators are not sure how long it will be before the decision is overturned.

The State Board of Education approved new, evolution-friendly science standards with a 6-4 vote Tuesday, replacing ones that questioned the theory and had the support of “intelligent design” advocates.

The change occurred because a coalition of Democrats and moderate Republicans won control of the board from conservative Republicans in last year's election. While conservatives said after Tuesday's vote that they were not planning to reopen the debate even if elections go their way in 2008, state law will require another review of the standards by 2014.


full story: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home

So much division in the US these days. Evolution vs Creationism, Science vs Religion, Left vs Right, Pro vs Anti... Americans are being divided, who will be conquering?

Illegal alien immigrants that invade our country and then are afforded the opportunity to take full advantage of blatant acts of treason, as they are allowed to apply , using fraudulent information, for legal working citizens social security trust. As well as obtain credit cards through the Bank of America, as long as they do not have an overdraft on the account for 3 months. And terrorists that, "hate us for our freedom", so that our government officials compromise that, so they then love us like a brother!

Close the borders. Build Walls as high as the sky. Send all those consuls where they belong. I am a native Alien Indian and I own this land. My Great grandfather was Geronimo who was exiled in Florida after helping... the.... What the heck, just work for me.

I get what you're putting down



Thats the attitude I like. I have no idea what I am signing up for but count me in!

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE....




I hate this hole thing with Christ vs. Science i wish people could just accept science i mean science is something that is hear,now and real.. someone can do an experiment at any time or place and get the same result as someone from another time and place.. in christianity or any other religion you really cant do that.. science is real and we know that it is.. there is no real physical proof of anything from the christian religion (such as jesus as being magical or even his existence...or even the christian God)..

Doc,
this is not surprising to me, the teaching of evolution is distorted, sort of they have made it up how they think it is, and bessie tells ernie and a frenzy gets going, they use no other viable source to deem the credibility of things, if its not in the bible its not so is the guiding message....My freind told me that in the late 40's and early 50's they misunderstood evolution and religion has kept with the misunderstandings, yet I understand that because they are living in a biblical bubble and many have no clue as to this......this is all they know... try and watch Freinds of god a road trip this really touches on the understanding of evolution, they think man and dinosaour lived toghether etc........

Matt s..

exactly the curriculum is from the 60's and the innovative newer teaching ideas are not met with openess, we have such a 'if this was good enough for our ancesters its good enough for us,' many think this is what it means to honor tradition.... the biggest determent is we have is this mindset..also education is misunderstood, teaching is defined as telling one what to think instead of encouraging one to think for themselves, often the kids are told only one side often the victors side( we have those who are teaching who don't know how to think so how do you model it) tthey arent' given all the data to make informed decisions, a parent is respoonsible to get the kid all the data they can then discuss it let the child come to thier own understnadings based in all the data. This too this is very relgious at core it dumbs people down ( this is gods word period follow or else) this makes robots not thinkers, some think thinking is alot of knowledge......a child will be asked to memorize a great piece of poetry but never asked what it means to them, do they agree or disagree, kids in there homes are squelched from asking questions, a well meaning parent tells them to quit asking questions I see this all the time, parents don't say I dont know enough they give answers for everything, when the greatest gift is being comfortable with jsut not knowing and it also keeps the window of learnig open......

In so many ways its a double edged sword, this too gets its roots in religious dogma , the only questions are the questions that already have the answers , this is called learning this is called teaching...Teaching by rote is ineffective and ts the main method of teaching , it simply further dumbs a kid down.... The ability to think is in great peril at the school level at least at pre college....etc....Kids are given hours of homewrok that is ineffective for anything and they are told this will teach you responsibility, ask a kid what it teaches them, it doesn't eahc responsibiblty it teaches resentment and takes the joy of learning.... a effective teacher rarely uses homework, if you have a eager passionate student who loves to learn you would be amazed at what they retain, the fun has been taken from learning these poor kids are over whelmed and the parents many are punishing overwhelmed kids so they too arent' helping...the system is in shambles and many teachers/parents do care and are trying ot better things, yet the red tape is hard to get around, yet they keep trying..why would one call education teaching of praying to imaginary deitys as important.....

Well, I'm from California originally, born and raised on the beaches and in the inner city of San Diego(Spring Valley, Lemon Grove, Encanto, Lomita Village, Barrio Logan) and the clubs in Tijuana, I had gay friends(Haaayyyy...Hillcrest), druggie friends, Mexican friends, black, Samoan, Filipino, whatever, (I'm white) I was curious about and hung out with everyone! I was exposed at least once to all religions in a casual way, but everyone else was mostly atheist too. Except for my Mexican friends who were mostly Catholic. My family was and is atheist. So I have to say the predominant influence when I was growing up was "open-minded,"secular humanistic atheism. I found Christ by myself at age 22. External influences had nothing to do with it either way.
I also lived in Georgia mountains (Appalachia) for a while when my kids were babies, a long time ago. It is absolutely not true that they are dumbed down. What a dismissive stereotype. I thought we were not so quick to label people here, but I see a lot of it going on. Unless you've been to the South, you have no right to judge that culture. Because if you haven't been there, you're going on media portrayal and commonly held stereotypes. They are not backward in the least, I don't know why people think that. They have college and everything now. Short of chaining their kids to the beds and not letting them go outside every day, I don't know how you would keep people from being exposed to everything going on in the world. Where did you get the notion that Southern people are not exposed to anything else. Are people in California not exposed to anything else? Of course they are. Same is true for everyone else in the country.

Thank you, very much, Heather.

I have relatives and friends in the south, this is based on personal interpretation i also have lived outside of california. this is first hand knowldege,i have moved around.I did say too that not all people are this way, it does seem a certain god fearing mentality is predominate more so then in the bigger citys......It was an observation not a judgement , their is a difference.... Exposure does count for a lot IMO...Not ot infer taht one in georgia couldn't be diverse if this was the guiding principle .Hubby has lived all over the world, we are going off of that....
california seems be more in tune with what we are wanting to instill, why make parenting harder, i am a vegan also and the state i am in supports the idea enough to where i could continue on this path (its warm all yer veges are more likely).....also In my job which its very public i have the oppourtunity to meet many from all places and i ask, I share the feedback. Not everyone would like califiornia its a matter of taste.......Texas contrary to what you think I may think many who live in a god fearng enviorment are proud of it and feel it is the best for them and their kids, As it should be I have myself and family to worry about how can I possibly decide whats best for another, because i add to the conversation with a persepective that is unpopular doesn't mean that its wrong and i am right its just another view, we all have one its what makes life interesting...
california is so diverse, Long beach is recognized as the most cuturally diverse location in the world.... You can grow up where you did and experince things that say i living in the redondo beach,palos verdes, hermosa beach area will experince a different set of core guiding principles, yet I will say i grew up in sylmar the foothills the diversity there is alot to be said for it, i and my kids can adapt to any social situation,any relgioun, any culture and wanting to live in peace and unity, we are all one this is great fertile ground for experincing tolerance and understanding differences.... In my neighborhood every culture lives every walk of life... its all inclusive a macro life experince but we have a specific core principle we are going for in molding our kids...I hope this helps lady Do you speak spanish texas??? its so easily picked up here hubby and two of my kids learned it from their friends...

I knew you would! You asked, I figured put it out there. This country is being overtaken by religious rights that are permitted to have dominion, by law, over secular equality. Did you hear about the muslim cab drivers in Minneapolis are refusing to carry people with dogs (guide dogs included) or that are in possession of alcohol or even smell of alcohol!? Thus far their insistence on revoking the rights and protections for handicapped people, afforded by the "Americans with Disabilities act", has gone unchallenged. Or how about the pharmacists that can refuse, by law, to fill prescriptions based upon their personal religious beliefs!?

It's just the beginning of the end, for secular freedom in a country where a far right terrorist traitor, sits the highest seat in the land and intends to make his America in the image of his god, before he leaves office. (If he leaves office. Martial law being declared before 08, is not out of the range of possibility). So when we read of an evangelical war on science, it's wise to take it seriously because there's an evangelical war on rights and freedoms already. Science, just happens to be the next target in a long list of items on an agenda like unto that which is exampled by zealot muslims, that institute theocracies elsewhere.

Even though I'm Evangelical, I find this video quite disturbing....I was taught about creationism AND evolution, so even though I don't believe in the whole idea of evolution, at least I know about it...

It's terrible to think those kids are going to live thier lives not knowing about the other side of thing....

There's no reason why belief in the evolutionary process and in the existence of God have to be mutually exclusive. When Darwin began writing "The Origin of Species" he was a Deist... he believed in the existence of God... he didn't believe that belief in the evolutionary process disproved the existence of God. Ok, he believed that God wasn't particularly interested in man after he created him, but he still believed he existed.

If God created light after doing all the other creation stuff, who decided that the six days that he did all the creating in were 24 hours long? Could have been thousands of years long. Just a thought.

That's what I think too...A day could have been even a millon years or more.

Sums it up for me....



Christian Fascism holding hands with Islamic Fascism, I guess fascism loves company.

It loves a lot more than that, if one remembers the expose' about the gay male prostitute with the carte blanche "press pass" access, into the White house. Bush runs with Dick and gets to sit the seat of power twice. No, no punch lines forthcoming on that ticket, were there!? Noooo.

A belief in God does not equal a belief in YHVH.

"Charles Darwin was an Anglican, but by most accounts he appears to have been largely nominal in his affiliation with the Church of England. Darwin may be better classified as a Unitarian. He was a member of a Unitarian congregation which he attended regularly during at least part of his life.
During Darwin's lifetime, the Unitarian Church was considered a relatively mainstream Protestant Christian denomination, although many of its beliefs even then separated it from other Protestant denominations. Today Unitarianism (known since a merger as Unitarian-Universalism in many parts of the world) is considered a distinct religion and not a subset of Christianity, but during the time that Darwin lived, there was no concept of Unitarianism as a "non-Christian religion."

Darwin has been classified variously as deist and an agnostic. Of course, these are not religious affiliations in his case, but are classifications of his theological beliefs. Darwin was never a member of any Deist or Agnostic organizations. "

Light does not measure time so what you are saying makes no sense at all. Its like saying time stands still on the north pole half the year. Also it would not make sense if god measured the days of different lenght.

To the topic, it frightens me to see part of the nation with the biggest weapon arsenal endure thinking that is fit for the stoneage. You simply cant brainwash innocent kids like that. its disgusting.

Everybody is brainwashed in one form or another...the trick is to understand that you are brainwashed and go from there.

You cant expect small kids to understand a 'trick' and brainwashing is easily countered by logic anyways.

Cade you do have a point.... It can be a life to undo the conditionings and even then you probably wouldn't get to em all..I agree .Knowing you are conditioned is half the battle....

condescending interesting avatar name, welcome to UM...

Thank you, I found this forum very interresting and a nice welcome its just cream on top of that

i also meant to add on your post you had a point too...I hope you enjoy your stay here... Its a great bunch of folks here one big happy family ...*smiles*

Sorry Iams,but I highly doubt that the removal of prayer from the schools had anything to do with the dumbing down of America.There was still prayer in schools when I was little...and the dumbing down had already begun,most likely due to the lack of good teachers and the fact that many families had both parents working in order to chase that ever elusive "Almighty Dollar"...not to mention the fact that many school budgets were becoming strained without any relief in sight.Without proper funding,many schools had to continue using outdated materials (even today,many schools are still using books that were printed in the 1940's & 50's),and class sizes got bigger because there was a definitive lack of teachers in many districts...which made it harder for the teachers to make sure that each student was learning.

As for the last sentence,why must everything that goes wrong be attached to the "communist-based liberalism"? Why can't people accept that *all* political sides are a bunch of screwballs,and each one has made a large amount of mistakes?




Umm...those who are sitting in the background laughing because no one knows who is actually making things happen.

I really couldn't agree with that more.

I don't see how prayer in schools is going to make children any better. Especially those who are not christians and don't know/care who god is. It will just be vain repitition..which I believe is mentioned as being quite bad in the bible.

I didn't express myself very well. What I mean is that if light was created last then couldn't other things have been missing in the period before it too... like 24 hour days for example. Why would time be measured at all before life was created? I know what I mean... I'm not sure I can explain it though.



Why would six days have to be six days long - that's man's interpretation of what took place. There's no reason why a day should be 24 hours long if created by a god... why would an apparently immortal being care about time? We shouldn't exclude what's beyond our reasoning. I think taking the bible literally is the cause for the clash... 6 days cannot equate to millions of years, so therefore the two are mutually exclusive.

If the bible is swallowed hook line and sinker, with no pause to question the contents, then evolution doesn't make sense and I think that's why groups spring up who believe that evolution is the work of the devil These people have no ability to question their own beliefs, and believe that everything that opposes them is evil. They see questioning as a bad thing, but why have a brain (which they believe God gave them for a reason) and not use it? Mindless sheep, that's all they are. And mindless sheep who follow any doctrine blindly (whatever it may be) are the cause of so much suffering.

Prayer in public school was removed in 1962. It is a poor excuse for todays education standards, to say those statistics are a direct result of that, when prayer in school at the time it was implemented was a minute of silent meditation. However, what that minute communicated, taught as it were, to children was that there was an exclusive privilege afforded the christian peers and that led to an impression that every other child in every one of those classrooms across this country, were not included when that christian prayer moment was announced. I even know of one school district wherein that moment of prayer was not silent at all, but rather was led by the principle, in a christian prayer. As in; "Our heavenly father...." What then did that moment communicate to the muslim, jewish, catholic, atheist, etc... children in the classroom!? How about the message that prayer for the day did not include them!

What has lowered the standards of education in public school today is the liberal agenda the likes of a "no child left behind" program, implemented in Texas by then Governor George W. Bush. However, what affects that curriculum is a lowering of standards to meet the needs of children not quite up to par with other students, so that the standards are lowered to meet the deficit of the less astute.

For instance, in the district where I live the children are discouraged from learning how to spell, because they have "spell check" , on the computers that predominate every class room. They are not graded for math acuity, because they are allowed to rely on calculators for math. This is not a result of the lack of prayer in school, that was rescinded over 40 years ago, but rather it is a result of a program that implies all children are equal, even if their learning abilities are in deficit. It is a direct result of the pathetic ideology that levying a grade point average, or any grade on any work what so ever, implies a segregation among child peers and thus imparts a discrimination and thereby impugns their sense of self worth. When nothing could be further from the truth, however adopting school program and policies that say all children are equal, even when they aren't learning anything, is what has lowered the scholastic advantage our children once had, to being in the bottom tier of overall of education standards today.

We have high school students that can not find the United States on a blank world map. We have students that, when asked who the first President of our country was, reply with : Bill Clinton! When a child is told they need not worry about basic skills like math, spelling, grammar, because to do so and to grade for their understanding of such material, may impart a insult to their sense of self, we've got a problem. And why is that!? Because there's this virus spreading in America called; "Political correctness", wherein one can not expect more from their child because that child, in order to communicate equality for all, is told their level of understanding is contingent upon the relative comparison of those not quite as astute. So therefore, the entire school system must accommodate those students that are in deficit (like reading at a 3rd grade level, when the child is in 8th grade), and imply the students that are up to par must suffer so those less aware children are not left behind. So the entire system is compromised.

If one is religious and believe prayer should attend the public education system, they should be intelligent enough in that regard to know they can pray anywhere at anytime. They don't have to have an exclusive right of privilege for a moment to do so, wherein the entire school is ordered to accommodate that need.

soooooo sad

I hear you but you have to take the seventh day into account here. The seventh day is 'with light' and therefore around 24 hour long. If god measure the seventh day as a 'day' as well as the six 'days' before you would assume they are identical in more then the word 'day'?




Evolution is in deep contraxt with what the bible context reads. Religion as I see it is both as you say for people who are mindless sheeps or in another word naive. But also for people who is "scared" of some of the bigger questions one might ponder like "the meaning of life" or "Death and beyond" some questions are so big or scary that people needs to find simple answers to 'be able to live' without worry, fear and confusion ruining it for them. Religion is comforting that way to them I think.

It wasn't fully removed in all schools at that time.Three of the schools I went to during the late 60's/early 70's still had a school prayer performed in the morning.In the late 70's they decided to turn it into a "moment of silence".




Well said...and welcome to the forums.

Thank you sir

Slightly Humerous Proposal:


It seems like a lot of these radicals want to live in their own part of the country, separate from the rest of us.

I say... GREAT. Let them form a sub-state down south somewhere while the rest of us go on with our lives. One codicil: don't let them buy anything connected to the sciences they condemn. Let's see... they don't believe in evolution, which implies that they don't believe in genetics. So, no livestock that is the result of selective breeding. No antibiotics. No seed or farm products specially developed for high yield or endurance.

They aren't too keen on physics either (what with all that mass=energy hocus pocus). So, obviously, nothing related to radioactivity. No x-rays at the dentist.
Since they believe that "the rapture" is just around the corner, I guess they won't be needing life insurance or anything like that, either.

In some ways, they'd end up like the Amish. Except that the Amish are seriously spiritual pacifists with no interest in controlling the people around them. I admire the Amish. These creepy Fundies are a cultural disaster.