I have heard that man can acquire superhuman powers through it and perform miracles. I saw a man who had brought a ghost under control. The ghost used to procure various things for his master. What shall I do with superhuman powers? Can one realize God through them? If God is not realized then everything becomes false. (p. 158) ----Sri RamaKrishna


Can you walk on water? You have done no better than a straw. Can you fly in the air? You have done no better than a bluebottle. Conquer your heart; then you may become somebody. --Ansari of Herat

The slightest degree of sanctifying grace is superior to a miracle, which is supernatural only be reason of its cause, by its mode of production (quoad modum), not by its intimate reality; the life restored to a corpse is only the natural life, how indeed in comparison with that of grace.

---R. Garrigou-Lagrange

....in one of the Pali scriptures there is an anecdote recording the Buddha's own characteristiclly dry comment on a prodigious feat of levitation performed by one of his disciples. "This," he said, "will not conduce to the conversion of the unconverted, not to the advantage of the converted." Then he went back to talking about deleverance.-----The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.

Revelations are the aberration of faith; they are an amusement that spoils simplicity in relation to God, that embarrasses the soul and makes it swerve from its directness in relation to God. They distract the soul and occupy it with other things than God. Special illuminations, auditions, prophecies and the rest are marks of weakness in a soul that cannot support the assaults of temptation or of anxiety about the future and God's judgment upon it. Prophecies are also marks of creaturely curiosity in a soul whom God is indulgent and to whom, as a father to his importunate child, he gives a few trifling sweetmeats to satisfy its appetite. ---J.J. Olier


Thoughts anyone???

LOL...I'll have what you're having !!!!!

I only wish I could have what they are having!@!

I guess that Rules out the Ministry of Jesus Christ as he seemed to use supper powers to get his ministry up and running.

Jesus apparently was enlightened. As you know, Jesus himself regards the grace of god as being superior to the use of miracles. One can perform miracles while still in a state of sin (unenlightened) but that doesn't mean they are one with the universe. All it means is that they can manipulate the universe better than the average sensual man.

jesus used that of his mother and father in harmonie through the love in his heart.

just by showing mary face to face with those seven demons and walking with her on that path

well if he was doing the teaching and she was doing the learning ,mary was the life that jesus added the spark of light in life.

in it self, thats a mirical of god the two must be one in that chamber of marriage .

understanding these seven that are within is the key to knowing these "super powers" that you speake.

"Powers" of levitation, walking on water, etc...have very little spiritual values. They are bridges that appear the closer we focus our minds to the collective oneness.
Sure, they appear miraculous and are VERY FUN and can be very useful if used in the right way but they are simply side effects of expanding our minds.
Someone can try to expand his/her powers vs. trying to spiritually advance, to use those powers to heal, to walk over hot coal or over water. It's simply a demonstration of the amazing powers of our own minds.
The difference between a person in search of power and a person in search of a mystic experience is simply the difference between trying to have personal power or trying to BE the truth.
There is nothing wrong with having those abilities and expanding them. But they aren't their own purpose. Hope I don't sound confusing.
I think awakening such abilities is simply one of the bridges one can cross on his/her way to surrender to the TRUTH.

I agree, we can, conceivably learn any skill we wish, in time, with study and practice even hone those skills so fine they seem supernatural, miraculous. All it comes to is a fancy show to impress other mortal beings, to a god those are nothing. Usefull tools, is used responsibly, yes, but nothing more and not really supernatural or superhuman, just well practiced.
Truth? Can we ever be that, know it yes but can we ever BE it, or is it the journey that matters and not the being.

Its rather like showing off your new expensive watch or your Lexus or something - "Look what I've got." Special abilities and "miracles" have more to do with ego if they are being done for the sake of impression.

I am impressed Alara. That was very well put.



I agree

Yeah compared to a mystical experience, superhuman powers dont seem all that super (not that i speak from experience).

IMO, There is a night and day difference b/t the psyche and spirit.
Psyche is consciousness (thoughts) mental, psychological, emotional, physical parts of us. We are very much aware of all of these aspects within ourselves. None are hidden. This would include something like telekinetics, or moving objects with the mind.. ex, Psyche (mental focus-psy determination-will) + strengthen= telekinetic ability

The spirit is the core of being. Spirit is not defined by thoughts, mentality, actions. It is the subconscious, and it isn't effected by our daily routines. Spirit should not be defined or assoicated by superpowers. Superpowers are mentally achieved, spirit isn't mentality at all.

"But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things
shall be added unto you." I can say that this quote actually works 300% because my life is THE proof. I have everything I need, and then some, things that I didn't even expect, but very welcome nonetheless.

Since I have no need for the cliche superpowers (to begin with), I don't have them. Let me take that back: I do have some superpowers. Most people naturally open up to me. My cooking is also "miraculous(!)," so people say. I also know that I'm a great lover because I really know how to love (and I love being loved). And I love to dance dance dance, and strangers have actually worshipped me on the dancefloor -- beyond my control.

Definitely, seek God with a sincere heart..., but then again, one is already doing that, regardless of what one thinks -- it is beyond one's control.

Ya, pure consciousness is beyond the reach of thought.

its hard to seek the kingdom of god
because its not natural to a wicked one
we must learn 1st to seek
then we will find it someday somehow

I think any way as long as we reach the subconciouse level
we can recieve all we need
even need is undesirable so i dont need any needs

It seems to me that you don't have any problem doing it, seeking God. Therefore, you are not so wicked after all. Let the REAL wicked one be the judge of that.



Ah, you must be one of those Rockerfellers, a Vanderbilt perhaps? Or, a non-eating saint in one of Swami Yogananda books?

Oh, BTW: suicide is also an established practice among the followers of Jainism. If this world is so immaterial and such a big illusion, then you know just what to do, right? But, count me out of it.

He is right though. True spiritual liberation is when you dont need or want anything. It is when you are indifferent to whatever happens because you are everything that happens. Really no body can commit suicide because we are all eternal infinite consciousness.

Suicide is an intersting subject. I thought it would be worth putting up clips from some interviews with Ramana Maharshi (Allah bless him).

Ramana Maharshi: Everyone is a suicide. The eternal, blissful, and natural state has been smothered by this life of ignorance. In this way, the present life is due to the killing of the eternal, pristine Being. Is it not a case of suicide? So then, everyone is a suicide. Why woprry about murders and killing?

and this


Ramana Maharshi: What is body consciousness? Tell us that first. Who are you apart from consciousness? Body is found because there is body-consciousness which arises from "I" consciousness, which in turn arises from consciousness.
Consciousness-----> "I" consciousness-----> body-consciousness----->body.

There is always consciousness and nothing but that. What you are now considering to be body-consciousness is due to superimpostion. If there is only consciousness and nothung but it, the meaning of the Scripture ( All are dear because of the love of the Self) becomes clear.

A question arises as to why there should be suicides in that case. Why does one do it? Because he is unhappy and desires to put an end to the unhappiness. He actually does it by ending association with the body which represents all unhappiness. For there must be a killer to kill the body. He is the survivor after suicicide. That is the Self (true self which is infinite spirit).

Just had a tasty brunch at a trendy, new cafe by the beach with a friend -- ummmmmmmmmm so goooooooood!


Unfortunately, theory is never the same as "reality." And, you cannot let go of things you haven't gained -- it is at the very core of renunciation. Basically, you have not accomplished anything by letting go of something you do not have to begin with -- speaking of illusion. What's the lesson in that??? It is a mad man's folly -- speaking of "social error."

A karma yogi goes about doing things without any attachment to the results...

When one is on this planet, one must perform one's role to the best of one's abilities and talents, for there are lessons to be learned. Again, one cannot go from point A to point B (without completely appreciating point A), unless God gives one the grace to go beyond the scheme of things. It just is. Renunciation is not about slacking; in fact, one must give one's all, "'til death do us part."

Yeah, yeah: it's so easy to space out and just blame the "world-is-illusion" bit, but that's not my style. If one is strong enough to take the consequences of one's so-called "detachment," then go for it. I won't lose sleep.

"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.

On the other hand, I have nothing against a person who committed suicide. It is not for me to judge. I, however, do not have the nerve to take my own life, for I do not own my life -- my God has that exclusive task, in my belief system. It would be a sin for me to take my own life. It would definitely close off my Chakra System, I believe.

And yes, Ramana Maharshi is not around to defend his belief system, either.



How could you even write this??? You are still alive. Think about what you are writing down... Again, theory is never the same as "reality." But, if you have the nerve or brave enough to commit (total) suicide, then I could only appreciate your conviction. Would I celebrate it? Never.

Perhaps someday, R.M. might find this out..., sad to say. Unfortunately, suffering happens due to bad timing, one is ill prepared (due to bad training, education and lack of experience in daily living) to handle the many dramas of life. But thankfully, some saints do say that we don't repeat our errors in life if we've learned and appreciate the lessons and outcomes fully, and so on.

Mystics, saints, and demigods are not exempt from suffering.

Suicide is a touchy subject at the best of times. I can see only the slimmest of connections between it and this thread. Since discussions on this matter usually slippery-slope, could we keep the discussion off suicide and rather focus on the topic being discussed.

Thank you,

Let me say that the perennial philosophy is practical. Buddha, Ramana Mahrshi, Shankara etc all explain that the liberated life can be attained. These people were famous not because of clever theory but because they lived what they preached.

They are one with their suffering and all their surroundings. They suffer but they have also conquered their suffering, they know how to truly overcome it hecne why they are qualified to teach others to conquer it. It is a paradox, they dont fear death but they still take care of their bodies. They arn't just their bodies they are the whole universe. Only us ignorant people identify them with their bodies.

Somebody has to believe in the romantic propaganda of these "enlightened" beings (written by disciples) you read about. Unfortunately, they can't defend themselves since they are dead. Just like you, I could only write about my experience with the remaining (living and breathing) "enlightened" people, and their stories certainly are more grounded than books. Unlike demigods, they suffer and they make it known that they are 300% part of this world because they don't have the nerve to be phony. They'd be too embarrassed to say otherwise. And they don't want to pay the consequences of their "super" human-ness. It's usually the disciples who are the cause of the misconceptions, unfortunately.

Besides, these mystics you write about supposedly received their "enlightenment" while they still occupy their bodies. How do you know that they actually got the real deal, not just a mind illusion, since none of them has ever come back from the grave???

Well if I am a fool that believes in this propaganda then so be it. It is my faith and my own reason and intuition agree with it.

You are not a fool, brave new world, far away from it. I believe you are a sincere seeker. Don't get me wrong: I agree with a lot of things you wrote. Sri Ramakrishna said that in order for one to write or say about the Truth, one must dive into it first, and then write about it later -- to that effect.

I agree with that. I have never disagreed. And I have never claimed to have beheld the Truth or even had a mystical experience. I just expressing myself on here with the theory of the mystics because it makes intuitive sense to me. And according to Sri RamaKrishna it is the destiny of all to become one with the truth and so I have faith that it will happen with me like it will happen with everyone else.

I must say that Sri Ramakrisna (reading his and Divine Mother's books) rekindled my deep love for God. I believe it was him who said to cry for God with sincerity in your heart, and you will see Him... He's a simple man, and yet, very potent to open up the heart and mind and so much more.

If one could do them, then surely, they have been willed by God, and I say, go for it. Whatever it takes to find God, or to trigger one's pilgrimage -- one step at a time. And the truth is: many people are inclined to follow someone with concrete, otherworldly proofs, and why shouldn't they, especially in this age of Kali??? Unfortunately, there are also those who say that Jesus' miracles were merely a product of PR (created by his fans to gain more screaming fans) since during those times, practically everyone who can afford to be a god could actually dubbed one's self a "god," supernatural powers et al, whatever it takes to boost one's public image.

BNW is right, however, that superpowers have little to do with "real" spirituality" since it is beyond our earthly mind and body, in the end. But again, one step at a time, for one cannot go from point A to point B (without fully appreciating point A), unless one gets the grace of God to bypass everything else. And without a body, there is no proper meditation, so saints and mystics say. And "real" meditation is not a mere relaxation technique... If that was the case, then one might as well go to sleep, get a great massage, and so on. Therefore, mind and body are also important in the chain reaction.

Since Jesus works for you, then the machinery did its task, absolutely, efficiently. On the other hand, St. Therese d'Avila said that the hardest part of her spiritual journey was when she realized that she had to let go of Christ...

Are you REALLY sure about this?

Yes I am. Why?

I agree with you Alara. Because it makes sense to my reason and intuition. Also though because all the true mystics agree also hence how i came to my first conclusion. Being able to walk on water isnt the same as finding eternal peace of mind.

Alara, I'd agree, empaths, telepaths, all of it is just what the mind can do if we are open to and willing to practice and hone those skills.

I've also heard other people say that what appears to be miraculous is only caused by mind stuff, the mind getting diverted; therefore, it isn't really miraculous. I was wondering if this is what you meant...

I've been to several healing sessions before, and the healers actually told the audience that the actual "healer" is the energy that flows through them; therefore, not persons since they are only the vessels, conduits. They get out of the way (like a semi-trance) for this energy to take over. The strange thing about these healers is that their hands are really hot, or very very cold.

I, for one, have never seen people walk on water, or to truly levitate at least five feet high with me being there three feet away. I would actually pay my airfare at this very moment, anywhere in the world, just to see these truly magical feat. I'll even bring my camera crew... I've actually searched Asia for these super creatures, but alas, no dice.

Not trying to be insulting, but what you call spirituality does not exist. There are many things around you that make up this scenario world. They are as normal as you going out for a hotdog. Trying to make one's personal journy into the discovery of those things into a sacred or holy journy is actually retarding one's absorbsian of the totality of the general illusions many worlds within worlds.

It ends up like the main stream religionists. You get nowhere. That is the first trap that has been set regarding these matters. If you can't get beyond the illusion of a heaven{ and all the silly hoopla and those seeking honor and fame from it, you will be trapped within it.} I have mentioned layers within layers before, have i not? Those sublayers are generated for a reason, to shift the weak of mind and glory seekers that depend on the power of another, however that power is viewed. Heaven is nothing but torture and pain for those taking what is percieved as the easyway out. Most of the mainstream beliefs reguire you to give yourself in servitude to an alien being that has power, to become their willing slave forever. Those illusions take advantage of that big time.

The same with the spiritualists, who have their own layers and levels of traps, again they seek to be anything but human, they usually get their wish, and they suffer just as much as the heaven layer crowd. In both things the main denominater is that they have alien things that they worship or believe in.

This place is very much about self, and if you find yourself, then the power you are discussing you will have. And you are also right in that it is used as a tool. How you use it is up to you. There is a layer that tests that. If you go over the edge, you end up back here. With no memory's. Anyway guys, i can discuss things like this without any prej. against those who prevent those journys, who foolishly through peace or force and in this day, law as well, try to force you to live in their layer{they really do suffer for that, a special layer that the religious call hell, as if this scenario world was'nt bad enough already}

It's all quite interesting and revelant as well.

I don't serve an alien being with power nor am I a willing slave.





I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. I wouldn't call those abilities miraculous but natural.
Same as the headers simply conduct the energy, there is nothing miraculous about that; they've simply attuned themselves with the right frequencies and are willing and able to use that ability to help others. Let me know if I understood you correctly.

Did'nt say you did. But i was pointing out that the majority believe they can only achieve what you've been posting about through anything else but themselves. And mistakenly believe that such things are governed or that they need to abide by some moral code that says they have to use their power to help or serve others, and that is poppycock.

Oh, that I can agree with.

Oh, and "poppycock", LMAO! I love that word!

What the beautiful Alara here is saying is something that was once well expressed by a Christian Mystic called St. Augustine: Miracles happen, not in opposition to Nature, but in opposition to what we know of Nature.

I love how it sums up pages in a single line. Oh I love a good quote.

hmmm I can't say these people are wrong..can I??

But I do believe a lot of people have phycic powers...I watched a documentary on the Discovery Channel, it was about tracking down killers, they used mediums to help them. There was one pro medium, that told a class of police officers that, lil do they know it, but if they searched deep within themselves, they would find some phyic powers. She had a pic in an envelope, told them to come in and they had to try and guess what the pic was. This one cop drew out on paper, almost exactly what the pic was. Later when questioned, he says, on his way to the station, he visioned a place surrounded by trees, in the shape of a hut......................that is what the pic was..just that..make one think do I have the same thing??!!

If we all searched within ourselves, we would be surprized what we would discover!!

I personally will get a bad vibe, just by either, sitting near someone I don't know, or when I enter a place..I can sense something is wrong!!

Have either of you, did this??

I sat next to a guy that was a security man for the building that I work in, he was new to the job, and the sec I sat near him, I felt weird, kinna icky not nice feeling, there was something about him, I didn't feel confortable with. Weeks later this guy was in Jail, and had a history of violence, how he got a job as security, i dunno!! but thats just an example...it happens from time to time, I believe it happens to a lot of us..we pick up vibes!!

I agree that such powers do exist. And no doubt you do most probably have psychic ability. I think we all do it is that some have tapped into it more than others and others unconsciously have tapped into more of it than others. Yeah I am no skeptic when it comes to the supernatural.

I thought you were talking about those magicians' tricks, such as fake levitation, phony walking-on-water trick and so on, which appear miraculous but really not. They're simply clever illusions. Mind stuff.

And I agree, healing is a different matter. My great grandfather was such a conduit of that frequency, energy. The energy is the healer, and he was merely the vessel of it. Like gifted composers and artists, some people are naturally gifted with healing. The frequency works through each one differently.

Neither am I

I believe in keeping an open mind

heheh thats rights and wrong
maybe there is no right or wrong, not maybe is true
hehe

I am practicing control of clouds
so that I can make it rain and sunny I want to

hehe i think im in a percentage of
.001 out of 100%
hehe

but right now this time im feeling light
i feel im a water tank