William Blake was an artist and poet during the late 1700's and was around when Deism was booming. He seemed to have a cynical attitude towards Deist claims. I notice that on this site btw that many supposed historians don't really understand the way Deism BOOMED during the French and American Revolutions and was as active as atheism and other spiritual paths today. Deism has a strong and sometimes violent history that a lot of people want to sweep under the rug. The blood shed during the French and American Revolution was largely motivated by the intolerance of the Deists towards old fashioned Christian beliefs"


One of the things that Blake addressed was the approach of Experience as the supreme goal that was used by Deists to dismiss Christian beliefs.

Blake discussed Innocense and I thought that you all might be interested in this topic. I won't really be able to reply to the posts here because I have just moved and don't have internet at home. But I thought I'd start the topic anyway.


Innocense is according to Blake (and I am loosely explaining this) the key to spiritual salvation. Experience is what leads man astray.

I though this was a very interesting perspective because as a Cynic I sometimes find myself taking a leap of faith when it comes to dealing with people.

It is this aspect of this topic on which I would like to focus.


As people we often find ourselves in situations where we must believe in something, whether that be the goodness of our fellow man, the possibility of luck or karma working, or God's will.


When our experience raises its head spiritually we say "Yeah no good deed goes unpunished" or "I've seen this before and I know how it is going to turn out"

For me personally I find that many times I am able to push myself back into an innocent frame of mind. Some people call that naive but I have to say when I do this, many miraculous things seem to happen. Chance? Coincidence? That is how I have always regarded this but perhaps there is more to this.

Weigh in on what you think of this.

i like innocense
the best thing in this world is to remain in innocense even you are burden with beliefs and principles

I was born innocent i die back to innocense

I am a cynical person, but I try very hard to treat people as I would want to be treated - unless they have given me reason to not do so. While the 'benefit of the doubt' rule is important for me - as I know I have let people down but not through malicious intent - I also remind myself of 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Balance is important, as is reason.

I think that "naive" attitude you speak about is important in many ways true, even situations which are not necessarily spiritual. How many times have you heard an idea proposed only to be shot down by those with "experience:" "No, we did that already and it didn't work." "Been done before, won't work like you think." "They'll never go for it." etc. etc.

If "experience" keeps us from trying things in just regular activities, how much more will it get in the way, when you are trying to do something that requires you to start out blindly?

If you are born innocent and wish to die innocent and believe innocence is salvation and experience leads you astray, what the **** is the point in living? Life is experience, everyday you get up and experience life, learn from it and hopefully adjust your life according to your experiences. You all sound suicidal. Oh please kill me now so I dont have to experince this life, I want to be innocent like a baby, ya well guess what babies also crap themselves.

Hey finally I am back online. Thanks for all the replies....well except for Catch....suicidal? If that's all it takes to make you feel suicidal I feel mighty sorry for yah! LOL

Thanks for the replies except for the person who doesnt agree with your outlook *without the smile*

She twists, turns and ducks to make it sound like I'm the one feeling suicidal, oh and some 'feel sorry for me' pity, wow I can see we have a formidable debater here, a master-debater if you will.

Life is experiece, do you agree?

Babies crap themsleves, do you agree?

Maybe next time I wont voice my opinion around you, I dont want to make anyone upset or cry... ok that was a lie.

Dude its the internet....Not Miss Mary's Spelling Bee where you get to pitch a hissy fit because you TRIED dammit.

Lame is lame. If you wanna be lame and be funny that's one thing. But if you are lame and want to be taken seriously that's another.

Asides you didn't "disagree" with my point, you quite obviously didn't understand it at all. But carry on with the hysterics. I love when people have a melt down and wanna get down in the dirt and fight over what someone else says on the INTERNET.

OMG we're on the internet?!? Why didnt anyone tell me? Typical response, try to make the other person sound "hysterical", "lame" and having an emotional "melt down" without actually discussing anything, gee how clever... and emotional lol.

So you wanna discuss anything or did you simply revive this dead horse to make a spun comment about me being quick to want to kill myself? Any reason in particular you didnt thank me for my reply, or was it something I said that you didnt like? Anyways....

Life is experiece, do you agree?

Babies crap themsleves, do you agree?

Oh and by the way, welcome back.

My religion is all about experience. How can you learn without experience. The experience of standing in ritual circle with the power of the Gods and Goddesses flowing through you like a current is an experience beyond comprehension, but I keep trying understand. It is my nature to explore the incomprehensible.

Does innocence trump experience. That's the question. Not that we should hide from experience but rather is experience any more of a reality or answer than innocence? Is thinking you know what its all about any more realistic than accepting every situation as unique and new.

Hmm... a lot of people seem to be equating innocence with lack of knowledge here. But hey... what do we call someone who hasn't done wrong? Innocent, right? In fact, the first definition in my dictionary for innocence is "free from sin or moral wrong." That surely sounds like an acceptable way to get to heaven, right?

I have to admit, though, that I haven't read any Blake and don't know exactly how he's using the word.