Ok .... Im going to try my question with the poll thingie .... dont know how it works but will give it a try .....

Questions are (just for safety incase I dont work the poll thing right):

God knows BEFORE YOU ARE CREATED if you are going to hell or to heaven
God does not know BEFORE YOU ARE CREATED if you are going to hell or heaven

If you have selected "God knows" then why did he even create us with this knowledge if it is that we are going to hell?
If you have selected "God does not know" does this mean that the Bible is lying?

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Great ... the poll thingie works now .....
The reason why there are only two options is because I do not want to complicate things .....
If anyone has another opinion please tell me what it is and why ....

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It can be confusing. No worries. Next time, when you start a new topic, you'll see " Poll Options" , right below the subject line boxes, where you're suppose to put the title of the thread. Click that. Then you'll see another box, that appears. "Click here to manage this polls options". Click that. Then go from there.

I vote Yes, He does. But it still does not remove you from the responsibility of choosing to go there or not.

This is where I have trouble... if your fate is decided then why would you have to do anything to affect it? If all the striving to do good is pointless because you're born to go to hell then what's the point? If the outcome is already written, then there is nothing you can do to affect a change.

And yet I don't believe in coincidences, and believe there is a purpose... I believe in fate.

I am a contradiction. So I vote neither yes nor no... maybe the book rewrites itself as you take one turn or another... so fate is not immovable. Then God wouldn't know I suppose. Maybe he doesn't want to know... takes all the fun out of things if you skip to the end and read the last page of a book first. He winds us up, puts us down, and watches to see which direction we go spinning off in.

i vote yes also, if anyone is actually reading this or just......nevermind.

randomhit10

It's not as simple as as yes or no.
God has a good idea of your nature, and knows the probability if you will make it back or not , but with the freewill we were gifted with, anything is possible, also certain individual spirits, through love after doing wrong will see this and choose good by repenting to those who have been wronged, and by forgiveing them self as well as others who have wronged them, with freewill we can choose any outcome, but with Gods help any outcome can be corrected or over turned.

Love Omnaka

So God doesn't know, but he's hopeful. Like a parent who hopes their child will do good but sees the possibility for an alternative outcome... the child makes the difference?

I believe yes, god would have to know before you were created, whether or not you were destined for his heaven or the hell of his creation.
Omniscience precludes free will. An all knowing, everywhere present god, would not be constrained by the space/time continuum. Therefore, our future would be within it's awareness, and that means it would know everything that is to transpire, before we do. Read Ephesians 1:3-13, for the idea that people choosing to go to hell is a way of abdicating the responsibility taken on by god, for making sin and hell, letting the antithesis of his grace, the devil, live so as to provide temptation unto his perfect creation, in the first place.

Ephesians 1:4-6 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[a] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
If one believes man was created in the image of god, how can man ever lack perfection for being created exactly as they were made to be?! If eating of the tree of knowledge likened humanity to god, how could that be a sin, if one was made in the image and likeness of god and were ignorant before gaining knowledge, like unto god, how is that a damnable offense!? Some will say because god told Eve and Adam not to eat of the fruit, and they disobeyed and that was why they were cursed. But they were cursed for becoming like unto god, not just for disobeying his command not to eat of the tree, god allowed to take root in his created paradise in the first place.

Of course god knows, if one believes the story as it is told. And thus the game was born, between god and his devil, for human souls. But omniscience would already know who would win or lose, long before they were born. So really, the game is played among ourselves, that's why god exercises his prerogative to simply watch and then judge what he's already created to come to fruition.

Besides that, if you believe, not everyone that has faith is chosen to attain salvation at the end of their life. So says the word.

In that case I think God must be very bored. I'm not being funny. Why would he want to sit back and just watch an inevitable outcome... what would be the point? I would imagine that to be the most pointless exercise imaginable. Again, not being funny... I just think existing solely to sit back and witness a predetermined set of events is my idea of hell.

Perhaps that's what inspired the thread, god is satan, satan is god. After all, hell, damnation, sin and the devil were all first created by god. And then god begat himself upon an unblemished woman, which means she had to be born without the usual sex act, in order to give life to god/jesus, so god could then amend the rule he made in the beginning, after he cursed humanity for being the flawed souls he created and knew them to be.

Have you ever watched the Al Pacino classic, "Devils Advocate" ? Masterpiece of a movie. Watch that and you'll see it all come into view.

John Milton (Al Pacino)
Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. "

"You sharpen the human appetite to the point where it can split atoms with its desire; you build egos the size of cathedrals; fiber-optically connect the world to every eager impulse; grease even the dullest dreams with these dollar-green, gold-plated fantasies, until every human becomes an aspiring emperor, becomes his own God... and where can you go from there?"

One of my classic catch 22s. If God is omnipotent and know all from the beginning to the end of each of our lives for time immortal, then does free will really exist since God already knows what choice we will make? If He does not know, then he is not the God we are told of and the Bible is based on a false representation of God. To my thinking true free will and an all knowing God contradict one another. Both cannot be.

First of all there is no hell per se. There are prisonhouses in Heaven but they are temporal and you either go to other levels of Heaven when you released or you are reincarnated. God has us like little 'experiments'. He gives us free will to see what you will do with it. The main reason for free will and the reason humans were created was to see 'who among your race would love or abhor Me' i.e. who would love God of their own free will. He CAN foresee what you will do but He turns a blind eye to it.

It's kind of like the little known job of Guardian angels. God can of course see everything but he puts your guardian angels (one for you one an accusing angel) in charge of letting him know what you are doing. He makes them His eyes on Earth. Here's a secret. Your guardian angel can NOT report something bad you've done if he so wishes. God doesn't really want to know about the bad stuff anyway....God knows what you're doing but He may turn a blind eye to it. And here's another secret, something's only wrong if YOU believe it's wrong and are doing it with intent. That's part of the way you get judged on death.

I'm not certain that either answer is completely satisfactory, due to the ambiguous nature of the definition of heaven and hell (particularly hell). It needs to be further defined before I can even begin to formulate a proper response. That said though, given the information that has been given, It seems that voting "yes" would be the most appropriate response here.

Free will and destiny can coexist. We make our own choices and God already knows the outcomes of them. When someone or something "sees they future" they are just seeing the outcomes of choices and consequences. I believe that any action or choice can be predicted if the variables of the choices are known. If one knew the How, the Why, the Where, the What, the When, and the Whos of a particular choice one could accurately predict the outcomes of events and predict any other future choice that may occur.

Simple events and choices are predicted all the time...applying the same principles to a larger scale should show similar results.

One can predict exactly what will happen when a ball is thrown(how hard, how fast, where it will land, etc.) by applying mathematical principles(velocity, strength the ball was thrown at, weather conditions, angle it is thrown at, etc.)

One can also predict a human event or choice by applying similar principles, you just have to know the variables of the equation. The variables of the equation are many which include the person's personality, location, genetics, history, and mood. You would also have to know the same variables of the people(and their choices) around that person because other people can effect your decision. In all actuality though knowing these variables would require the powers of mind reading(being able to read the whole planets mind actually) and omnipotence. There is a reason why we make the choices we do...all someone has to do is know those reasons before hand.

Now once you predict one choice you can use that conclusion to determine the consequences and any events that may happen because of those choices. If you predict multiple people's choices you can also predict how choices will interact with other choices again causing different consequences and events. Keep on taking the idea further by predicting everyone's choices(also note that you have to know the environment...because a hurricane could change your decision in buying a house in Florida) you can accurately predict the future...and knowing what the future holds implies destiny.

So by my little theory destiny/fate does exist but so does free-will...because destiny is just the foreseeing of events, actions, and choices. The future is already history...all that needs to happen for the future to become present is for us to make the choices.

So God sees into the future and knows that one day I will conquer the world. Is God going to make a plan and put the pieces in play so that I can achieve this? No. Does God know how I will make my choices, what events will effect me, etc.? Yes.

God could force us to make a choice, directly change a choice, etc. but he gave us Free-will so if he did make our choices for us he would be going back on his word. God just knows the outcomes of our choices...he could influence our choices but the choice is still ours to make. God still can have a plan for us...he is just building that plan around our choices.

This quote(yes it is Quote Time!) from the Matrix Reloaded helps:

The Oracle: Do you see her die?
Neo: No.
The Oracle: You have the sight now, Neo. You are looking at the world without time.
Neo: Then why can't I see what happens to her?
The Oracle: We can never see past the choices we don't understand.
Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?
The Oracle: No, you've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it.

Maybe humans do not have free will...but if destiny exists then someone had to create it. Somewhere down the line someone made a free will decision to make destiny because destiny cannot create destiny. All we have to do is find a way to get around or destroy destiny(God's plan) and we will be forced into having to make our own choices....make our own destinies.

If everything is chosen for us and we cannot make our own choices...then what the point? Why would God create fate? There would be no point...we couldn't be blamed for our sins because it wasn't our choice to sin and any salvation or enlightenment wouldn't mean anything if it was given to us by a person who created our choices. We would just be action figure's for God to play with if we didn't have a choice.


P.S. This is copy and pasted from my blog so forgive me if doesn't seem entirely on topic. I just got tired up typing that whole thing out every time a subject like this popped up...so I made a blog entry so I can copy and past(or link to it if I'm feeling real lazy).

I vote NO, God does not know!

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God to me Is the angels and the system which is made up of pure energy .....
Satan or the Evil is also part of that energy but a lesser .....
God is everywhere .... like the angels are EVERYWHERE ....
But they dont know your outcome they dont know before creating you that you wether you going to go to heaven or hell .....
There is an angel that determines you sex at creation .... and froms you ......
Like I said .... the angels and the system they use is God .... they do not know!!!!
I dont think that they will toy with us like that nor will they allow the evil to be greater ... think about it.

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Perhaps if you had included a third option in your poll it might have worked.


'God does and does not know BEFORE YOU ARE CREATED if you are going to hell or heaven'

Whispers ......
Just between you and me .....
Ive never used the poll thingie ..... but thanks for the info.
Dont tell anyone alright its a BIG secret!!!

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I don't see the option for 'God knows but turns a blind eye for the sake of free will' I want to retract my vote...

I say yes and no and i dont know

It says in th eBible he planned our days. I have been told that he knows everything we will do to the slightest detail lik ehe knows im typing right now. He knew what we would do even before our parents had concieved us. which is great......

........but doesnt that take away free will doesnt that mean we are living by his plan and in fact we are not chosing our own path just walking down the one that has been chosen set and planned for us by God

then again It could be that God wants us to be something but its up to us to get there he may block us or nudge us onto the right path but he still aloows us to make our own decisions.

I find this intresting cause its one of those fundamental questions we will never know the answer to

Ok, now I'm wondering if maybe God does know, but doesn't.

He doesn't in the sense that we make the choices that affect an outcome, but he does because the moment we make them he knows... he is in the present but can be in the future, so every turn we take produces an outcome that can be seen by him because he can skip ahead. So, he knows, but what he knows is ever changing because we are. So it's not predetermined... he just knows because he knows the future. If you see what I mean.

We're not born destined to go to hell, but if we make a choice that would lead us there he would know... but the day after that we do something that changes our course and he knows that too.

That wouldn't be so boring for him.

He knows your nature which is why He made astrology (2 Enoch 'and I made the horoscope for every newborn child') the paths you take are your free will.

Mums the word!


Though if you did ever get the poll thing working you might add


'other answer' as one of the options







and maybe 'dont know' as a tentative fifth option.

Well now ....
Thanks for the um .... "suggestions" .... but Id rather stick to what ive got .... there is a point to it, sadly anything else will complicate things BUT I will still read and take into consideration ..... tis not said for nothing!
I would like to know what the majority thinks ... voting for either one! And then with those that have other opinions we can sum up later.....
Those that do have "another answer" or even "dont know" .... dont have to vote ... if they so wish they can just say why ..... see .... I like my idea better.
Oh btw please stick to the topic and not the way the poll has been set up!
Thank you!

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I've gone for no. God doesn't know before we're born whether or not we're going to hell. He can follow our progress and see the changing outcomes (if he's interested), but not "know" our end until it arrives. We have free will, so he cannot determine the outcome, only witness it. And is the Bible telling lies? Well, it's a work of fiction, so I don't think it's telling lies because fiction is not fact.

Its fishy!!!

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If he does know, then I find it harsh and so wrong that he allows lil babies fall to such horrible deaths and dont get to see life as a kid/teen/adult

I'll say that the answer is both and neither.

The reason I voted no is because I believe the same as what you have just said .... I read somewhere that when a baby dies or a young child (innocent) .... they dont wait for judgement day ... their souls are carried to heaven by angels where they become mature, complete and perfect .... in Him on His altar (is the words written). Yeye ... I know It sounds a little crazy ... but just think about it.

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How about God doesn't care if we go to heaven or hell - not as depressing as it sounds actually. I don't think anything is as written in stone as does God know or not know. My understanding is that God is too big for our minds to understand but I really like a quote I heard that God is a verb not a noun.

I voted yes. All is God and this All knows where all is heading at all times. And ultimately we are all heading to become consciously one with the All which God which is our true identity. There is nothing to fear and nothing to worry about. GoD loves all unconditionally and draws no disticnction between good and evil because all are expression of God itself which is beyond expression.

What does it say in the bible that makes NOT knowing a lie?

Well, it's not like that. Many people find it confusing too though, it's like they ask "Why should I do anything for myself when all things had already been planned to happen by God? So whatever happens is planned by God and is inevitable, so why, for instance, do I have to work hard for something?" -- The problem is that, IMO, understanding such matters is beyond our mental ability as humans. Like we never understand how God was created, how He was there before all of use came, or how He does know every little thing about every single person on the planet, we will never understand how we're responsible for our actions though everyone's destiny is planned from the beginning. It's just beyond us.

Not sure how the fact that the innocent do not get judged indicates that God doesn't know what's going to happen. Would you please explain?

But when God grants a woman a child of her own, and later that baby dies...it doesnt make sense that it's Gods plan. I find it so hard to believe that God would give a mother a child then let it be taken from her, leaving her with nothing more than heartache and pain for the rest of her life!!!

When you think about those mothers that would do anything for a child..and that happens to them...tragic

and then you have those that, dont give a crap for their child, beat it and abuse it...and the child having to live a horrible life...

none of it makes sense!!!

I belive God does love us all yes....this is why I find it hard for him to know...cuz I believe he would NOT want a lil baby to be raped and tortured to death, thats NO way for it to die...

I believe God wants ALL children to at least experience life... but see these kind of questions are so hard to answer, because not one of us actually knows what God knows...we only assume and believe what we think is right...do you see what I am trying to say??

I cant believe that God knows whats going to happen...I do believe if he is not ready for you, then regardless of what horrid nightmare event you have been through, you will survive....if he wants you, then you will die and go to him.

I believe in guardian angles for this reason..I believe, if you pray and believe they will help, then they will...but that's all you can do.

God works in mysterious ways...so much so, we can't explain them, but hey we do try don't we?..and you know what they say?? - No harm in trying!!

But when the baby dies then some1 is suffering from that

I know............the parent/parents

My vote was No God does not know .... Beckys_Mom explains it very nice!



See .....

I dont think God is so cruel to his creation!

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Which is WHY I said, it doesn't make sense that it is Gods plan

you know i always thought what is the point i mean dont get me wrong im not a murder and im not priest but the reason is if you dont try in life then whats the point of exsisting yes god knows what your going to do but remember the part of him being all forgiving well thats the whole reason god will only forgive you if you forgive others

If you want what fate wants then nothing can happen against your will....... it is that simple..........

voted yes God knows, but I don't think I'm in a position to judge how fair/unfair/right/wrong it is from my limited perspective

I voted yes.

I have a theory about this. God has two plans for your life(at least). One with him, one without. So though he doesn't know which way we are heading, he has an idea.

IMO, under the rules of quantum mechanics, life isnt planned..

its all choices choices choices...

ever single human being creates his/her own path to life. i think God gave us the gift of free will.. it is up to US to use it for goodwill and such. and it is up to us to be good men and women so the heavens may give us peace.
every single life is different. physically emotionally and mentally.
i guess you can say life isnt fully planned from birth to death because it is a variable.