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SilverCougar
QUOTE
Feb. 20, 2007 — A mutant cancer which causes facial tumors on Australia's Tasmanian devil has brought the carnivorous marsupial to the brink of extinction, a leading researcher has said.

Local populations of the animal, popularized as Taz by Warner Bros. in its Looney Tunes cartoons, have already been savaged by the mysterious disease, which results in malignant facial tumors.

Hamish McCallum, professor of wildlife research at the University of Tasmania's school of zoology, said the disease, which usually results in death six months after the appearance of the first lesions, could lead to the extinction of the species within a decade.


linky

Ok so head count... Polar bares, and penguines are going because of the ice caps melting waaay to fast. Frogs and other amphibians are going because of global warming, pollution, human infringment on their habbitates, and a fungus. NOW we have the Tasmanian Devil going because of a cancerous tumer.

>.> Not a good sign at all.
frogfish
I wonder what illness could cause this...It sounds a lot like the VHS virus that is spreading around the Great Lakes and causing massive fish kills.
carini
The tumors are caused by a rogue cell line. All tasmanian devils have 14 chromosomes. The tumor cells all have 13. Basically it started in one animal through some odd mutation and the cell ended up cancerous and immortal. I think all cancer cells are immortal, and this one is apperently transmissible as a disease. As the tasmanian devils are all carrion eaters they can easily spread the disease amongst each other due to multiple animals scavenging off the same flesh.
frogfish
Ok, first of all, these tumors are caused by a disease. Just like how the hemorrhages in fish is caused by the VHS virus.

The tumor itself is not spread, the DISEASE does.

Cancer is not immortal, it just goes on rampant growth due to the 7 pathways.

carini
QUOTE(frogfish @ Feb 21 2007, 12:08 AM) [snapback]1552108[/snapback]
Ok, first of all, these tumors are caused by a disease. Just like how the hemorrhages in fish is caused by the VHS virus.

The tumor itself is not spread, the DISEASE does.

Cancer is not immortal, it just goes on rampant growth due to the 7 pathways.


Ummm it is actually caused by a single cell line that is cancerous and basically immortal. The disease is the cancerous cell. The tumor itself spreads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4674446.stm
frogfish
QUOTE
But while many scientists had suspected a virus, Anne-Marie Pearse, a researcher for the state of Tasmania who co-wrote the article in Nature, found abnormalities in the chromosomes of the cancer cells were the same in every tumor.

Pearse and her colleague Kate Swift discovered that, while the normal complement of chromosomes in the devil is 14, the tumours contained 13, which were grossly abnormal. These chromosomal rearrangements were identical in tumours from all 11 animals studied by the scientists.


The idea that the tumors are the same further supports the idea that a virus that causes these tumors. Chunks of tumors being "transffered" to another animals and causing a tumor is unprecendented and unplausible UNLESS it enters the bloodstream, and I HIGHLY doubt every animals has been subjected to that. Yes, a cancer is caused by a cell line, but it is not infectious. However, diseases can cause thing, like the LMB fish virus and now the VHS virus.
Clobhair-cean
I seriously doubt that a single disease could kill a whole species, there will always be a percentage in the population with some immunity due to some genetic disorder. There are people who are immune to AIDS...
frogfish
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seriously doubt that a single disease could kill a whole species

yes.gif But the disease can do MAJOR damage to the numbers of a population, playing a large role if the species ever goes extinct.

It would in essence cause a bottleneck.
carini
QUOTE(frogfish @ Feb 21 2007, 11:24 AM) [snapback]1552540[/snapback]
The idea that the tumors are the same further supports the idea that a virus that causes these tumors. Chunks of tumors being "transffered" to another animals and causing a tumor is unprecendented and unplausible UNLESS it enters the bloodstream, and I HIGHLY doubt every animals has been subjected to that. Yes, a cancer is caused by a cell line, but it is not infectious. However, diseases can cause thing, like the LMB fish virus and now the VHS virus.



A virus or bacteria cannot cause the loss of a whole chromosome in every cell it infects. Sorry doesnt make a difference if you know any biology at all it just doesnt work like that.

These animals fight often and when they do they attack and bite each others faces. They are also scavengers that eat carrion, dead and rotting flesh.

The cells can simply become lodged in open wounds on other animals faces. And yes this cancer is infectious and yes it does spread. It takes about 6 months for the infected animals to develop the tumors and die normally, about long enough for an infectious cancerous cell line to multiply in its host.

Odder things have happened with diseases. Take kuru or BSE. Both caused by prions. Both caused by cannibalism. Just as these rogue proteins cause these diseases so is this cell line causing cancer in every devil it infects.

Once again let me make it extremely clear. Viruses and bacteria cannot remove whole chromosomes from every single cell they infect.
SilverCougar
QUOTE(Clobhair-cean @ Feb 21 2007, 06:36 PM) [snapback]1552685[/snapback]
I seriously doubt that a single disease could kill a whole species, there will always be a percentage in the population with some immunity due to some genetic disorder. There are people who are immune to AIDS...



Difference between this and AIDS though... a person could live for YEARS with AIDS... this disease kills the tazzies off in 6 months, and it's spreading faster. Right now, the only way they can stop this from killing the whole species is to get as many healthy tazzies out of the wilds and place them in zoos and sanctuaries. As it is.. 6 months is not along time to try and figure out the what, whys, and hows.
frogfish
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virus or bacteria cannot cause the loss of a whole chromosome in every cell it infects. Sorry doesnt make a difference if you know any biology at all it just doesnt work like that
QUOTE
Once again let me make it extremely clear. Viruses and bacteria cannot remove whole chromosomes from every single cell they infect.


BUT a virus can cause lesions and tumors, which in turn will turn cancerous and multiply, which is probably the case here.

For example, HPV, the Human papillomavirus can cause diskaryosis of uterine cells, which leads to cervical cancer. The same applys to these poor tazzy devils.

In related function, the Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV) can trigger cancer (lymphoma and Hodgkin's)

T-cell leukemia-lymphoma virus may induce malignancy by activating homologous cellular genes after it "infect" the host cell's DNA.
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What you are saying is the the cell line itself is contagious. It is not. Every single type of cancer known comes from some type of cell line. They're not rogue, or infectious. They're just cancer cell lines. They only way for cancer to spread is by metastasis, in which is spreads around the body via the bloodstream.

I have never heard of pieces of tumor put onto a foreign body causing cancer. The tumor itself would need a bloodvessel to live, which it has NONE.

frogfish
QUOTE
the only way they can stop this from killing the whole species is to get as many healthy tazzies out of the wilds and place them in zoos and sanctuaries

It can be done, but is a huge undertaking...
NightWyvern
yea,I heard of this problem a while back,very sad really
carini
QUOTE(frogfish @ Feb 21 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]1552821[/snapback]
BUT a virus can cause lesions and tumors, which in turn will turn cancerous and multiply, which is probably the case here.

For example, HPV, the Human papillomavirus can cause diskaryosis of uterine cells, which leads to cervical cancer. The same applys to these poor tazzy devils.

In related function, the Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV) can trigger cancer (lymphoma and Hodgkin's)

T-cell leukemia-lymphoma virus may induce malignancy by activating homologous cellular genes after it "infect" the host cell's DNA.
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What you are saying is the the cell line itself is contagious. It is not. Every single type of cancer known comes from some type of cell line. They're not rogue, or infectious. They're just cancer cell lines. They only way for cancer to spread is by metastasis, in which is spreads around the body via the bloodstream.

I have never heard of pieces of tumor put onto a foreign body causing cancer. The tumor itself would need a bloodvessel to live, which it has NONE.



You dont seem to understand what they have found.

Every single cancerous tumor cell they have studied has 13 chromosomes!!!!!!!!!! YES 13!!!!! 13 !!!!! NOT 14!!!!!! Viruses DO NOT EAT CHROMOSOMES!!!!!!

The only way that every single tumor cell could have 13 chromosomes is if the line of cells started with one animal and one cell in that animal.
frogfish
QUOTE
Every single cancerous tumor cell they have studied has 13 chromosomes!!!!!!!!!! YES 13!!!!! 13 !!!!! NOT 14!!!!!! Viruses DO NOT EAT CHROMOSOMES!!!!!!
Cancer cells are always whacked. CML always has the same reciprocal translocations (the ABL/BCR), and prosttae cancer from LnCap always have the same translocations, most notable 1:15. Just because these cancerous tumors have the same mutations DOESN't mean they came from one source. All it means is that they are the same type of cancer, which is most likely caused from the virus.

QUOTE
The only way that every single tumor cell could have 13 chromosomes is if the line of cells started with one animal and one cell in that animal

OR, the more plausible idea, that these tazzy devils are infected with the SAME virus, that causes the SAME type of cancer! ohmy.gif

Sorry, I clearly understand what you are saying. You are missing my point. Hopefully the above helps.
carini
"Major Advance in Understanding of the Devil Disease - February 2006
DPIW’s scientific team published ground-breaking research on the Tasmanian Devil Facial Tumour Disease (DFTD) in the world’s pre-eminent peer-reviewed science journal, NatureYou are now leaving our site. DPIWE is not responsible for the content of the web site to which you are going. The link does not constitute any form of endorsement. The paper, written by DPIW’s senior cytogeneticist Anne-Maree Pearse and her assistant, technician Kate Swift, has been described as being of global significance.

The paper establishes with a high degree of certainty that devil facial tumours are clones transmitted by allograft. Allograft is where tissue is transplanted from a donor of the same species, but with a different genetic make-up, without the recipient’s immune system rejecting the graft. This is usually an exceptionally rare occurrence.

The paper states that the cancer is infective. The infective agent is a rogue cell line that initially evolved in a tumour of unknown origin. The chromosome arrangement of all the tumours is identical. All show exactly the same complex rearrangement of their chromosomes, unlike virtually all other cancers.

The chromosomes of the cancerous cells do not exhibit similarity with the healthy cells elsewhere in the bodies of the infected devils. This means that the DFTD sarcoma can be described as a clone capable of parasitic existence in the body of Tasmanian devils.

The growing scientific acceptance that the infective agent is a rogue cell-line passed between devils by allograft has implications for control and suppression of DFTD.

The paper reinforces the correctness of the Department’s approach to directly intervene in the field to keep sick devils away from healthy ones through insurance populations in quarantine areas and also in the trials to suppress DFTD in the field. It provides a high degree of confidence that keeping healthy animals away from sick ones is sufficient to prevent infection.

There are significant practical challenges in attempting to keep sick and healthy devils apart in the wild, and the field trial now underway on the Forestier Peninsula may help provide some of the answers."

Another website. http://abc.net.au/rn/scienceshow/stories/2006/1559962.htm

And another.

"DEVIL FACIAL TUMOUR DISEASE - Anne-Maree Pearse, Launceston Mount Pleasant Laboratories, Tasmania

Chris - For the past few years, people have been noticing something horrible happening to an animal called a Tasmanian Devil. This is the world's only carnivorous marsupial, and they have some nasty habits, such as biting each other. They've been developing horrible facial tumours that eventually kill them by preventing the Devils from eating properly. Nobody knew where these tumours were coming from or what was causing them. But now they think they know, and what's really spine chilling about this is that it looks like this is an infectious cancer that one animal can pass to the next.

Anne-Maree- It became very clear about three years ago that the Tasmanian Devil's numbers were in great decline and they were in decline because they were dying of Devil Facial Tumour Disease. It generally starts around their mouths or around their lips and grows from there. Devils have the most disgusting behaviour. They fight over everything and they bite each other around the face. In other words they sort of jaw wrestle. These tumours are occurring where these wounds are more or less. They get very large and eventually the devils die, generally of starvation because they're unable to feed.

Chris - So the fact that you've got an injury on one devil which then turns into a tumour, and it's inflicted by another devil kind of suggests that this must be some kind of infectious phenomenon.

Anne-Maree - Yes. Normally in tumours you will find a common cytogenetical or chromosomal break point which actually defines the disease. I expected to find this in the devil with various random rearrangements around it. When I looked at them they were just totally rearranged. It was a massive amount of rearrangement. I looked at the next animal and it was exactly the same, and there were no sex chromosomes in animals of either sex. When you get something as complicated as the mix up in these chromosomes in this cancer, and when you can't find any sex chromosomes in the cancers in animals of either sex, you start to think that you've got an infectious cell line.

Chris - But this raises the obvious question, if you can transmit tissue from one devil to the other, that's almost analogous to an organ transplant. So why isn't it rejected? Why doesn't the devil's immune system just kick in and get rid of the hostile tissue?

Anne-Maree - Well this is another part of the puzzle. The devils' immune system isn't doing it. We know that either the cell line itself or the infectious cell line is capable of sliding under the devil's immunological radar, or that there's something wrong with the devils' immunity.

Chris - Is this the first time that anyone's spotted a disease like this, or are there other examples?

Anne-Maree - There is an infectious dog tumour, a canine venereal sarcoma, which is believed to be spread that way. There is a difference between it and the devil disease, which is that the dog's immune system can overcome it, and it regresses.

Chris - So to what sort of extent is this affecting devil populations in Tasmania? Is this restricted to a small part of the population or is it having a major impact?

Anne-Maree - We're talking about a major impact. The devils are affected in slightly over 50% of the Tasmanian mass, and it seems to be spreading.

Chris - And is there any chance of curing it?

Anne-Maree - We've had no attempts at curing it because you can't catch every devil in Tasmania and give it chemotherapy. But wouldn't it be lovely if we could find a vaccine?"
frogfish
The problem I have with allografts is that themselves and xenografts are a rejected, but since Dr. Anne-Marie seems confident, it possible could be.

QUOTE
devil's immunological radar, or that there's something wrong with the devils' immunity.
The problem with the immunity could also be caused by the virus!

BUT there are few quirks I need to point out.

QUOTE
unlike virtually all other cancers

I can think of two cancer off the top of my head that invalidate that. CML and AML.

QUOTE
and when you can't find any sex chromosomes in the cancers in animals of either sex, you start to think that you've got an infectious cell line.
In metastases of pancreatic carcinomas, the sex chromosomes are sometimes gone. Yet, pancreatic carcinoma isn't infectious.

See case 2750 in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sky/skyquery.cgi

And in Leukemia:
QUOTE
Loss of sex chromosomes has been reported in normal and malignant marrows and its frequency increases with age in both situations. It is not clear whether the sex chromosome loss is a critical mutational event for neoplastic transformation or a genetic change related to ageing. The present study was undertaken to analyze incidence of loss of sex chromosomes in leukemia patients. Karyotypic analysis in bone marrow cells was carried out in total 270 AML patients registered at G.C.& R.I. during January 2000 to October 2003. Out of 270, 22 patients had loss of sex chromosome in addition to other disease specific chromosomal abnormalities. Out of 22 patients, 50% (11 of 22) were of the pediatric age (up to 14 years), and only 10% (3 of 22) patients were above the age of 50 years, maximum age being 65 years. On follow-up, only in patients with pathological remission normal 46XX/XY karyotypes were seen. Whereas in patients with persistent leukemic activity, clones with loss of sex chromosome were observed. The results indicate that sex chromosome loss in these cases may be equivalent of a clonal cytogenetic process rather than related to ageing process.

http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-...5;aulast=Bakshi

Also, why isn't cancer developing in other places OTHER than the head. I have seen tazzy devils get into "fights", and they bite their arms, legs and body. Why is it only in the face?

So in essence, we both could be right. The cancer very well could be contagious (although I've never heard of cancer allografts happening outside in vitro) and could of also been triggered by the virus, or the virus might be being passed around, triggering the cancer.
louie
I watched a travel programme on Malaysia last night and they stated that at the rate its going the Orunatang( excuse the spelling) will be extinct in 10 years.
so there is another to add to the list.
frogfish
You have to be careful about the "rates", as intervention can and probably will happen to save species, as it has been done for the Californian Condor and Asiatic Lion.
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