Did those who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks receive 72 virgins in heaven for their "sacrifice" ... or something else?

Virgins? What virgins?

Saturday January 12, 2002
The Guardian

In August, 2001, the American television channel CBS aired an interview with a Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh, who recruited terrorists for suicide bombings in Israel. Abu Wardeh was quoted as saying: "I described to him how God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness." Wardeh was in fact shortchanging his recruits since the rewards in Paradise for martyrs was 72 virgins. But I am running ahead of things .

Since September 11, news stories have repeated the story of suicide bombers and their heavenly rewards, and equally Muslim scholars and Western apologists of Islam have repeated that suicide is forbidden in Islam. Suicide (qatlu nafsi-hi) is not referred to in the Koran but is indeed forbidden in the Traditions (Hadith in Arabic), which are the collected sayings and doings attributed to the Prophet and traced back to him through a series of putatively trustworthy witnesses. They include what was done in his presence that he did not forbid, and even the authoritative sayings and doings of his companions.

But the Hamas spokesman correctly uses the word martyr (shahid) and not suicide bomber, since those who blow themselves up almost daily in Israel and those who died on September 11 were dying in the noblest of all causes, Jihad, which is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Koran and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined for the purpose of advancing Islam. While suicide is forbidden, martyrdom is everywhere praised, welcomed, and urged: "By the Being in Whose Hand is my life, I love that I should be killed in the way of Allah; then I should be brought back to life and be killed again in His way..."; "The Prophet said, 'Nobody who enters Paradise will ever like to return to this world even if he were offered everything, except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed 10 times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him'." [Sahih Muslim, chapters 781, 782, The Merit of Jihad and the Merit of Martyrdom.]

What of the rewards in paradise? The Islamic paradise is described in great sensual detail in the Koran and the Traditions; for instance, Koran sura 56 verses 12 -40 ; sura 55 verses 54-56 ; sura 76 verses 12-22. I shall quote the celebrated Penguin translation by NJ Dawood of sura 56 verses 12- 39: "They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyed houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds... We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand..."

One should note that most translations, even those by Muslims themselves such as A Yusuf Ali, and the British Muslim Marmaduke Pickthall, translate the Arabic (plural) word Abkarun as virgins, as do well-known lexicons such the one by John Penrice. I emphasise this fact since many pudic and embarrassed Muslims claim there has been a mistranslation, that "virgins" should be replaced by "angels". In sura 55 verses 72-74, Dawood translates the Arabic word " hur " as "virgins", and the context makes clear that virgin is the appropriate translation: "Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents (which of your Lord's blessings would you deny?) whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before." The word hur occurs four times in the Koran and is usually translated as a "maiden with dark eyes".

Two points need to be noted. First, there is no mention anywhere in the Koran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, and second, the dark-eyed damsels are available for all Muslims, not just martyrs. It is in the Islamic Traditions that we find the 72 virgins in heaven specified: in a Hadith (Islamic Tradition) collected by Al-Tirmidhi (died 892 CE [common era*]) in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah [Prophet Muhammad], chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise, (Hadith 2687). The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Koranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: "The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]'."

Modern apologists of Islam try to downplay the evident materialism and sexual implications of such descriptions, but, as the Encyclopaedia of Islam says, even orthodox Muslim theologians such as al Ghazali (died 1111 CE) and Al-Ash'ari (died 935 CE) have "admitted sensual pleasures into paradise". The sensual pleasures are graphically elaborated by Al-Suyuti (died 1505 ), Koranic commentator and polymath. He wrote: "Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [ie Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas."

One of the reasons Nietzsche hated Christianity was that it "made something unclean out of sexuality", whereas Islam, many would argue, was *spam filter*itive. One cannot imagine any of the Church fathers writing ecstatically of heavenly sex as al-Suyuti did, with the possible exception of St Augustine before his conversion. But surely to call Islam *spam filter*itive is to insult all Muslim women, for sex is seen entirely from the male point of view; women's sexuality is admitted but seen as something to be feared, repressed, and a work of the devil.

Scholars have long pointed out that these images are clearly drawn pictures and must have been inspired by the art of painting. Muhammad, or whoever is responsible for the descriptions, may well have seen Christian miniatures or mosaics representing the gardens of paradise and has interpreted the figures of angels rather literally as those of young men and young women. A further textual influence on the imagery found in the Koran is the work of Ephrem the Syrian [306-373 CE], Hymns on Paradise, written in Syriac, an Aramaic dialect and the language of Eastern Christianity, and a Semitic language closely related to Hebrew and Arabic.

This naturally leads to the most fascinating book ever written on the language of the Koran, and if proved to be correct in its main thesis, probably the most important book ever written on the Koran. Christoph Luxenberg's book, Die Syro-Aramaische Lesart des Koran, available only in German, came out just over a year ago, but has already had an enthusiastic reception, particularly among those scholars with a knowledge of several Semitic languages at Princeton, Yale, Berlin, Potsdam, Erlangen, Aix-en-Provence, and the Oriental Institute in Beirut.

Luxenberg tries to show that many obscurities of the Koran disappear if we read certain words as being Syriac and not Arabic. We cannot go into the technical details of his methodology but it allows Luxenberg, to the probable horror of all Muslim males dreaming of sexual bliss in the Muslim hereafter, to conjure away the wide-eyed houris promised to the faithful in suras XLIV.54; LII.20, LV.72, and LVI.22. Luxenberg 's new analysis, leaning on the Hymns of Ephrem the Syrian, yields "white raisins" of "crystal clarity" rather than doe-eyed, and ever willing virgins - the houris. Luxenberg claims that the context makes it clear that it is food and drink that is being offerred, and not unsullied maidens or houris.

In Syriac, the word hur is a feminine plural adjective meaning white, with the word "raisin" understood implicitly. Similarly, the immortal, pearl-like ephebes or youths of suras such as LXXVI.19 are really a misreading of a Syriac expression meaning chilled raisins (or drinks) that the just will have the pleasure of tasting in contrast to the boiling drinks promised the unfaithful and damned.

As Luxenberg's work has only recently been published we must await its scholarly assessment before we can pass any judgements. But if his analysis is correct then suicide bombers, or rather prospective martyrs, would do well to abandon their culture of death, and instead concentrate on getting laid 72 times in this world, unless of course they would really prefer chilled or white raisins, according to their taste, in the next.

SOURCE
http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/...,631332,00.html

Sean

It is a strange and dark belief. I know that christianity has had dark moments as well. The inquistions being the darkest perhaps. No justification being implied, but what I studied about the inquistions was that when death was imposed upon people for not converting they tried to justify it by destroying the body, but saving the soul. The muslim mindet for killing seems to be for selfish reasons, but the inquistitor general seemed to justify it for the lost soul and to stop the heretical teachings from spreading. But in the end it is all BS. The gospels I read never teach such a doctrine of killing someone for evangelical purposes. I wonder where they get these insane ideas?

I remember Sam Harris pointing out the exact same thing in The End of Faith. I hope that he's right.

Incidently, isn't it amazing how completely crass and materialistic this "72 virgins" promise is? It's like saying, "If you die in a crusade, you'll get 40 limousines, 24 Asian prostitutes, and 12 servants boys, plus 20000 square foot house."

Gods I hope Heavens a brothel. In my religion it is more like a bar and grill with a little sex on the side, but I don't think anyones a virgin. Besides once you poke all 72 virgins they are no longer virgins does that mean you get 72 new ones?

Only want my virgins to be wood elven adonises... anything else is out. (Save for one special acception.. *cackles*)

Dont the virgins get to say if they want to be with a man or not? Do women get 72 men?

NO. Women are second to men and have no power. The Taliban sez so along with Iran, so it must be that holy pure way. Where have you been? Even in India the women are really second class lower than men. Anyways, I thought it was 18 virgins in Islam if you die serving Allah [unless it was 18 x four murders for Allah].

Women are as good a men.

If I go to heaven I know I'd like 72 men (women too, what happens if you like both, eh?) ! That sounds more enjoyable than sitting around singing praises all day. Er unless, it's the men that are praising me

LMAO........Exactly.....You're absolutely right.....Couldn't agree more..... Am I making myself clear ?

Seriously though, how can we take this thread serious ? I for one would like to hear from our fellow muslim UMers so we can get their perspective on this.....
Or else we'll be cracking jokes all night long......

Well, like I recetly said t someone, if there was sex in Heaven the angels of Enoch wouldn't have needed to cast themselves out to Earth to marry human women to get it.

This has come up before, and the Muslim response was "It's true!" Can you believe such things? God is the caretaker of a universal brothel! It baffles my mind.

Seanph where do you get your information from

Jerry springer?

From study and Muslim members of this board. Capx32, a Muslim member, stated the above to be true. He honestly believed he would receive 72 virgins in heaven as a reward for being a good Muslim. What is your belief? And did you bother to read the article posted above?

Heaven is the biggest brothel around, All you helpless one's bend over for the least ranked there, as non of you will ever achieve the empty promises{thankfully} of your shamens{called priests now} Do you actually think they would go through forever without sex for themselves? They have an unending supply of ignorent and helpless slaves{those here who call themselves religious, or have the jesus myth as a personal savior, or any other religion} speaking of which, he can't wait to get you there. They all do. It's just that when you give yourself up as a perpetual slave to some one or thing as the religious do, thats exactly what you recieve. Just because you've been made to think sex does'nt happen up there, does'nt mean it does'nt. Many are often forced. Thats what happens when you think or are convinced{or forced as most religious children are} in your own idea or others, of what purity is.

Well, that felt good to say. Good luck in your heaven.

If there is no sex in heaven, it must be horrible.

You said it man, if theres no sex in heaven I'm going to request a transfer !!!!!

Well, this is the base illusion of this scenario cycle. The one's who deny themselves because of a non existant diety will, in most cases, be happily disillusioned when they achieve the layered illusion called heaven in regards to sex. It's the unending pain and torture they recieve for denying themselves in favor of illusionary divine characters they have been forced, or willingly believe in. In affect, basicly everyone and thing except themselves.

Thats not what this illusion is about, it's about the individual, something shunned by the religious in general, which they force on everyone else through legislative laws. However many others may be around you, remember that you are alone. Follow your own line of knowledge and you will be fine, sex and all things human, not empty things like the religious prate about.

The illusionary creatures of so called heaven love to torment them for it. When they arrive.

Please answer my question Mainpoint ... From study and, in this particular case, Muslim members of this board. It is a well-known and widely held belief. Also, Capx32, a Muslim member, stated the above to be true. He honestly believed he would receive 72 virgins in heaven as a reward for being a good Muslim. What is your belief? And did you bother to read the article posted above?

Funny thing..... I heard on NPR radio that an Egyptian man was sentenced to 4 years in prison for......

"insulting the Egyptian President and Islam" on his website.

Apparantly, it is prohibited by law, in Egypt, to critisize, mock, or insult the leader of the country or its religion.

Kind of makes you wonder how such a fragile religion could last so long.

I'm a Muslim and I wholeheartedly tell you that those terrorists will go to hell, without a doubt.
Our God is peaceful and never tolerates such terrible crimes. Our God has never teached us to kill civilians. We're told to behave kindly to even war hostages.

Just take those terrorists as if they are mental cases. They do not represent Islam in any way.

For more info, take a look at my article:
Real Muslims 'vs' Islamofascists

I can vouch for that, Dr.

Anyway, what is wrong with a man desireing a woman? Isn't that common in all races, classes, nations? Do I have to feel guilty for being attracted to a woman or two?
How many of you have watched Jenna or whoever taking on hundrets of man? How many of you where druling? Is this ok for you? Isn't that sick too? Why not complaining about that instead to finance it by bying the movies? Isn't it absurd to complain about something that is not even prooven but enjoy what is realy there and decadent?

No to killings, yes to Love.

Of course there's nothing wrong with being attracted to a woman or two!
I'm attracted to over a dozen of women! It's all natural.

Muslim scholars who question Islam end up fleeing Muslim lands or being attacked

... For a while Abu Zaid remained in Egypt and sought to refute the charges of apostasy, but in the face of death threats and relentless public harassment he fled with his wife from Cairo to Holland, calling the whole affair "a macabre farce." Sheikh Youssef al-Badri, the cleric whose preachings inspired much of the opposition to Abu Zaid, was exultant. "We are not terrorists; we have not used bullets or machine guns, but we have stopped an enemy of Islam from poking fun at our religion.... No one will even dare to think about harming Islam again."--The Atlantic

AND:

Radical New Views of Islam and the Origins of the Koran

The caution is not surprising. Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses" received a fatwa because it appeared to mock Muhammad. The Egyptian novelist Naguib Mahfouz was stabbed because one of his books was thought to be irreligious. And when the Arab scholar Suliman Bashear argued that Islam developed as a religion gradually rather than emerging fully formed from the mouth of the Prophet, he was injured after being thrown from a second- story window by his students at the University of Nablus in the West Bank. Even many broad-minded liberal Muslims become upset when the historical veracity and authenticity of the Koran is questioned.

SOURCE
http://www.rim.org/muslim/qurancrit.htm

Sean

72 Virgins

WAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very good gw. Not as harsh as my own explaination, but it will do.

seanph ...

you're obviously biased against Islam. It's so clear in all your posts about the matter that you are so. You do not seem to read/understand others' posts explaining the misconceptions you keep starting threads with. You just reply with quoted phrases and articles that you haven't even verified their credibility. Besides, everyone knows that each article bears the opinion of just its writer, noone else. You take any article against Islam as if it's a holy text and everything in it is just true.

Please be more rational.

Dr Haisook, I have a question.
Please don't think I am biased. I have had friends of middle-eastern origin, but we never talked about religion. My question is, with all this discussion of what islamic men can expect after death, what does paradise offer faithful islamic women? Hopefully not to become one of someone's 72 virgins?

Good question MA, what say you doc?

I'm not sure about the 72 virgins thing. Was it mentioned in the Koran or in the Hadeeth (i.e. Sunna - i.e. Muhammad's speech)? Muhammad's speech has been vastly modified over the centuries (see here). I think this one has been exagerated.

Anyway, I've read that in heaven, there will be creatures called "Al Hoor Al Ain" -- I don't know what they are called in English. These creatures are female-like and are said to be unearthly beautiful. More beautiful than all of the most beautiful women on Earth added together. If the 72 virgins theory is true, they will be Al Hoor Al Ain, not Muslim women who will settle in heaven. No Muslim women will be offered as prostitutes to other men!!

Of course Muslim couples and families will unite together in heaven.

I have heard this explanation before. In short, it is not about 72 or a million virgins. In the afterlife, according to the Quran, one will get what his heart desires, IF he was a good moslem.
No matter how much people like SeanP hate Islam and however they try to interpret it, I know the true Islam and I love it. More and more.
On the other hand, they can not bring me to disrespect Christianity or Judaism, not matter what they do.

So, Doc, keep your cool.

Of course they're going there. We all know if you do something mean & evil, you go there.

I have nothing against your beliefs. It's just them I hate.

Not sure much about the number of virgins in Heaven. But interesting topic.

No, I believe it deserves the same critical analysis as other religions. That starting to happen now, and I applaud the "new historians" who are doing just that.



I have received nothing but nonsensical polemics. Provide me academic material and we'll go from there.

Absolutely false! Name an article I posted that contained incorrect material. And just to be clear ... All materials/links that I have provided are from leading universities and/or contain quotes from leading academics. I do not dabble in playground history. I believe in rigorous research and Historical Method, Textual Criticism so forth and so on.



No, I posted the material because it was of interest and would spark debate--one critically needed with regards to Islam. The articles and links contain the ideals of both Muslim and Western scholars, from the leading universities.

I would ask the same of you. Step outside the box.



You don't even know your own religious texts ... and you're pointing the finger at me?! If you had actually read the article I posted, you would know the answer. Unfortunately, you just skipped it and made uninformed remarks concerning materials I have posted. Typical of the fervently religious. Jump to conclusions and point the finger.

... What of the rewards in paradise? The Islamic paradise is described in great sensual detail in the Koran and the Traditions; for instance, Koran sura 56 verses 12 -40 ; sura 55 verses 54-56 ; sura 76 verses 12-22. I shall quote the celebrated Penguin translation by NJ Dawood of sura 56 verses 12- 39: "They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyed houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds... We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand..."

One should note that most translations, even those by Muslims themselves such as A Yusuf Ali, and the British Muslim Marmaduke Pickthall, translate the Arabic (plural) word Abkarun as virgins, as do well-known lexicons such the one by John Penrice. I emphasise this fact since many pudic and embarrassed Muslims claim there has been a mistranslation, that "virgins" should be replaced by "angels". In sura 55 verses 72-74, Dawood translates the Arabic word " hur " as "virgins", and the context makes clear that virgin is the appropriate translation: "Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents (which of your Lord's blessings would you deny?) whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before." The word hur occurs four times in the Koran and is usually translated as a "maiden with dark eyes".

Two points need to be noted. First, there is no mention anywhere in the Koran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, and second, the dark-eyed damsels are available for all Muslims, not just martyrs. It is in the Islamic Traditions that we find the 72 virgins in heaven specified ...

Again, you are not even familiar with your own religious text ... and you point your finger at me?! How hypocritical can you get?! At least I'm making a concerted effort to understand the origins and evolution of Islam (as I did Christianity/Judaism) from an academic standpoint! The Hadith and the Sunnah are not the same thing (you used the abbreviation "I.E." meaning "that is to say; in other words"). Similar, but not the same.

In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad (saas), the Messenger of Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an. Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them. The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet (saas) or what he approved--as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah as already mentioned.--Introduction to Islam by Muhammad Hamidullah (Centre Culturel Islamique, Paris, 1969)

Sunnah and Hadith, University of Southern California (Compendium of Muslim Texts)
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/



I do not hate anyone. These are the kind of baseless accusations that get tossed around when the fervently religious are confronted with hard questions. That said, what I do hate, is what religion does to people--and I speak from personal experience. I spent nearly fifteen years as a devout--Literalist--Christian. And what is "true" Islam?

Sean

Odas, you seem to be well informed on Islam. Are you a Muslim?
Seanph, of course I simply cannot be familiar with every Islamic text. For one to be fully aware of every single text, they must extensively devote their time to the whole matter.

I actually hate to see people bashing Islam and calling it the religion of Sex and Violence. I mean, how on earth would a religion be violent? how would God tell us to kill other people to have sex with 72 prostitutes in heaven? It's just irratonal, even hilarious for any religion.

Islam is like any other religion, calling for peace and kindness. Those who hijack airoplanes and hit buildings with them are psychos and have misunderstood Islam. It's just as simple as that.

Why don't people get it?

Maybe seanph doesnt despise or hate muslims and islam. Nor does he wants to spread hatred and miconceptions about islam and muslims to others.

What may i ask seanph will you do if you discover that the answer for questions you have looking for are indeed something you didnt expect after all your "critical" and "thorough" analysis?

What if you are to arrive at the conclusion that there is one God and Quran is the word of God and furthermore Adam to Muhammad PBUH are prohphets of God including Jesus whom you worship as son of God?

Are you going to become muslim????? thats the tough question you will have to ask yourself. If you are brave enough to post an answer to this question

After you and the "good doctor" post your answers to the questions asked.

To the Dr: How many "Islamic texts" are there?

To ANY Muslim: Why are Muslims so concerned with answering questions about their religion? There have been 1,000's of books praising, or critiquing Christianity. Why the heated emotionalism when someone does the same with Islam? Why are you afraid to let people examine your faith?

Well people have to have some sort of a hobby....

ONLY KIDDING !! Seriously though I'm not muslim or particularly religious but I wholeheartedly agree with you here.....Your views are spot on.....

GW, I can always get a guaranteed laugh when I read your posts.....You're the coolest chick around here.....Where on earth do you find these jokes/funnies ?

Also, I love what you've done to Tom and Oprah.......

All joking and kidding aside....why in the world would an eternal body need a sexual outlet? Sex is a tool of procreation. Without procreation, why would sex even be necessary? It wouldn't. Eternal bodies would be 'immortal bodies'. Not needing nutrients or food or sex.

Thanks for calling me a 'good' doctor.

How many Islamic texts are there? Of course they're too many. Pretty uncountable. (!) -- What are you getting at?

I am not afraid about my faith being examined. Mind you, I'm not that religious. However, some people go on saying somethings that are downright ridiculous. It's like they just want to bash. You know what I mean?
How come they keep saying Muslims are thirsty for blood? Muslims beat their wives on a regular basis? Muslims cover up their women like potato bags?

There are quite a few Muslims who are that insane, the 9/11 terrorists for instance, but do they - in any way - reflect what Islam - as a whole - is? When you meet somebody with a certain disease, do you expect all of his/her family to be diseased too? Every case has its disorders. Taking these minimum disorders as if they're the general cases is not right. Does GW Bush stand for the American nation as a whole? Of course not. Why do we - non-americans - easily get that but you do not?

Check out my article as well:
http://drhaisook.wordpress.com/2006/02/03/...islamofascists/

So yes, generally I'm open to your questions and inquiries, though I don't think questions of the sort "Do Muslims dream about the day they bomb civilians to go to heaven?" have any point to them.

But you've forgotten how entertaining these activities are...

So you would agree that those who insist their women be covered head to toe are ...maladjusted? Insane is such a harsh sounding term. The religious clerics who declared a fatwa on Salmon Rushdie are perturbed? How about the Egyptian who was sentenced to 4 years in prison for "criticizing" Islam on his web page? What of the huge muslim outcry over a cartoon in the Danish nerwspapers, depicting Mohammed?

Is it rational to declare that ALL people must abide by the religious laws of some?

You say that "some" Muslims are extremists, and terrorists. I have seen news footage of Muslims, in the thousands, marching, chanting, and scourging themselves with chains in the name of their religion. But, if it is only a "few", then why isn't the rest of the Muslim world up in arms, protesting these actions?

By their silence, they give tacit approval to the methods of a "few".

Yes, there are some Muslim clerics who are maladjusted and perturbed, and even insane. Not every cleric is good.
I haven't heard about that Egyptian (I am not keen on reading the news actually) -- but what I know is that it must have had something to with the country's policies, rather than Islam. Actually, Egypt, unlike Saudi Arabia and Iran, has its own civil laws which have absolutely nothing to do with the default Islamic laws, as there is a considerable amount of Egyptian Christians as well. Egypt is not fully Muslim. Anyway, I admit that Egypt and most middle-eastern countries environment is not democratic at all. So in short, they don't imprison people because they insult religions, but because this has something to do with mass nervousness and excitement,..etc, so as to prevent civilian chaos and protests. Dictatoric? yes, but still, it has nothing to do with Islam. They would've done the same thing with the guy if he had insulted the president, for instance.

Of course it is, but as I've mentioned, countries of the region are far from being democratic.



Muslims are so many. They constitute the second largest religion in the world with population of over 1.7 billion according to this website. Thousands are literally few. No question about it. Most of them, by the way, are from Iran and Iraq, two of the most underdeveloped muslim countries, I mean mentally and culturally. This kind of protests rarely happens in Egypt, for instance.



Who said the rest of the Muslims do nothing about it? We're trying our best to tell people that we are normal human beings. Here I am, I'm neutrally talking with you, and I do have many Christian American friends. I'm trying to be kind and sincere with everybody. Do you notice anything weird about me being a Muslim? I think not.


By the way, I've basically joined this community to talk about UFOs, not religion... I think things change dramatically so fast

Mmmmmm...... Food for thought....

All man is created equal. Ask yourself what are you basing this assumption that muslims somehow exhibit different type of human emotions than you do.

Its not just with you, but many christians living in western societies believe somehow muslims are different type of humans!!

Its not surprising how islam and muslims are portrayed in the western media.

I have seen this countless times. Take this example if you have a question about christianity i am pretty sure you will speak to a christian, but when it comes to answers about islam christians are willing believe answers coming from other christians rather than muslims. If people are going to do that naturally their understanding of other cultures and religions is going to be flawed.

When i mentioned earlier that all man is created equal.

I live in america and i have seen this as a fact.

As a muslim when i critically look at christianity and basic philosophy of christianity some of my fellow christian friends become infuriated and inflamed.

So there is NO difference in the basic human emotions of 2 groups. I have lived in the east and west and the more closely i look at people living poles apart the more similarities as human beings i see amongst them.

Now coming to religious maters there are differences between 2 religions.

1 thing thats different in islam is that Quran is the final verdict. There is no pope or council of elders that can change that. There are no apostles like Paul.

I have heard this advice over the media, sometimes form christian friends

"Muslims should change their Quran or religion or maybe just update it like the christians did"

I dont see the point but even if i wanted to i cant do that. Thats 1 of the core beliefs of islam that teachings of Quran go beyond the boundries of time.

I was fasting 1 time during ramadan and 1 of my catholic friends expressed sympathies and said

"maybe you can drink some water, you know when i was small we did fast during lent but it was tough slowly the pope changed the rules and now the rules are we just dont have to eat meat except capybara meat"

I told her as muslims we cannot change Quran or islam just to suit "convenience" of a certain time period.

I am very proud of muslims and islam because of this fact.