I just wanted to do a survey on what people think of the affective disorder known as depression. The term "endogenous" means "from within" and in psychiatry is defined as caused by biological/physiological pathology (e.g. serotonergic deficiency or inactivity).

A few years ago my parents made me see a psychologist because my step-mom thought I was depressed and my Dad thought that there was something wrong with me because I stopped being Catholic and declining school grades(had to do with inner city American school system, not me).

Within fifteen minutes the shrink diagnosed me with depression and proscribed me pills.

I never understood it though. I didn't feel depressed. I didn't have a drastic personality change, I've bin the same person my whole life. If I don't feel sad how can I be sad? It's not like i was an Emo kid or anything.

In truth Psychology is far from a perfect science. I never really took the pills. My step brother has ADHD or something and he has to take pills but the pills have a the nice side effect of making him too calmed down and when he takes them he doesn't eat.

As for your question it could be both. There is temporary depression that may happen when a tragic event occurs(like a family member dying) and then there is the "chemical imbalance" depression that is more permanent. Or combination of both(your depressed because you have depression).

I just don't trust psychology at all at this point...mainly because no real tests are ever done to conclude if you have a mental problem or not, its basically just the doctor's opinion.

Well I suffer from OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and depression goes hand in hand with it.......There are varying degrees of depression ranging from clinical depression to the 'blues', a mild and temporary form of it....Women can suffer depression after giving birth ranging from 'baby blues' to post-bartum which is very serious.

Anyway, to people that suffer from it and to their families, it's very real and debilitating and can affect every aspect of their lives........

If I may, please may this thread not become a it's real/not real debate, just like we often do with UFO's because this is a sensitive issue and should be treated with respect and dignity......

Thanks to all in advance,


MUM24/7

That's true and it may last up to 5 years or over...seriously.

yes, depression is real.

but as for the cause being biological - well you could ask the question are the biological symptoms caused by the illness or is the illness caused by the biological symptoms. i am not a fan of classifying all mental illnesses as having a biological cause.



What sort of tests? You cant just do a blood test, for example, to determine mental illness. However, there are other tests that can be done. They rely upon the client giving true and accurate answers and yes, they involve an opinion by the psychologist/psychiatrist. Why? Because mental illnesses don't always have a definite set of symptoms. The DSM and ICD can be of help, but in the end it is up to the doc to make the diagnosis.

I feel some depression is primarily due to a chemical imbalance, but also think there are some for whom it is not a chemical imbalance, maybe the result of too long in hard times and even that can be rather long term, if not permanent.

Whatever the cause(s) depression is real and can severely affect those who suffer it and thier families/loved ones. I agree this should not be about if it's real or not, but about what causes it and possible ways to help those who suffer depression whatever the reason(s)

yes, depression is most certainly real. how do i know? i have suffered from it for quite some time now.

i was originally diagnosed with OCD and anxiety disorders at the age of 6.
to give you some family history, my father is severely bipolar, mom has depression, my dad's mother is bipolar, and my mom's mother has severe OCD and anxiety.
so yes, i was kind of genetically engineered to be a nutcase.

at any rate, the doctors have been trying over the years to find a set of medications that will actually help with the depression. thus far, they have not succeeded.
i have been on zoloft, wellbutrin, celexa, lamictal, prozac, and several others.

it is a struggle, i can promise you that. and it is impossible for anyone that does not have it to understand how those of us that do have it feel.
the idea that depression is not real is simply preposterous to me. probably because i have lived with it and fought against it for so long.

i can assure you that i have not been fighting tooth and nail against nothing.

Post Edited and post deleted. This is unacceptable behaviour. Read the PM I am sending you.

I totally agree with you Sheathe. Drugs will only cover the problem. What has happened to psychoanalysis in today's culture? Now it's all about handing out the pills so the psychiatrist and drug company gets money.

I've been diagnosed with depression, the pills never helped. I got out of it on my own. It's been really bad before, for no apparent reason. It comes and goes, but I do not allow it to get as bad as it used to.

In fact, I believe the medication made it worse. It was like they were trying to chain the beast, but the beast wouldn't allow itself to be chained. They put me on even stronger medications to fix this, but it just made it worse. I could sense the wall being put up inside my mind, and I could see a part of me on the other side trying to break through it.

I've been off these medications for almost a year, and I feel great. I rarely have depression, and if I do I know how to keep it under control.

Our minds are very very powerful, never underestimate their capabilities. If you can take control of you mind then you have a great resource. These medications only hinder the mind's potential.

on that comment...

i went to see a psychiatrist (not a psychologist) who prescribed me ritalin-like-drugs after *"literally"* 5 minutes of talking. he knew nothing about me. nothing of my habits, of my background, or of my learning disability (which im not so sure exists either). not really depression, but it emphasizes the point about drugs and money.

Depression is most definitely real, though, like a lot of doctors, psychiatrists can be real pill pushers. Pills can be dangerous and actually even make depression worse. So, please be careful if you are prescribed any pills. Do your research and pay attention to any changes you feel. Also, a lot of psychiatrists are very quick to diagnose anything as depression. There are legit cases out there, but you just have to understand that alot of people are quick to diagnose themselves or others as clinically depressed when it's true depression.

I am in treatment for depression. It is both caused by chemical imbalance and thought patterns. I take medication and therapy once a week. My doctor is a PhD and he is working on changing my thought from negative thinking to more positive thinking. He says I'll be on the medication about six months, by then the therapy will have worked. Depression is nothing to play around with believe me it can be deadly. If your depressed get help.
If found something interesting on the Dalai Lama's site about depression if y'all want to read it. I know I am taking a copy of to my Doc. this week.

http://www.dalailama.com/news.112.htm

I think you meant placebo lmao

Hi Skeet

I think depression is real and can be a combination of things stemming from biological, environment, etc. It is also hereditary, and just as bi-polar disorders runs in families, depression can also run in families.

I knew a girl whose dad said she didn't have depression although she claimed to have it. Her father said she was making it up and that it was all in her head. Later on I found out that she was having suicidal thoughts and had her father not gotten help for her in time, she may not have survived.

Sheath,
It's OK buddy, you don't have to impress us with your tough guy act, you make some valid points so take a chill pill (no pun intended)....
It's true that drugs are not the answer for everything and everyone and there are other ways to aleviate the problem...
Believe or not, even simple things like exercise, a good diet, trying to reduce stress and meditation and also alternative therapies....In my view, anything that can help you, go for it.......

Obviously, sometimes a person has no other choice but to take medication and as long as the doctor is reputable and has build up a good relationship with you, than that's OK too....Personally I found that whenever there is increased stress in my life, my OCD gets worse, so otherwise it's managable.....

Wow, strong opinions here.
In my personal experience, I believe it can be both psychological and psychiatric in nature, and is often mixed up with other ailments, both physical and mental in nature.
I know 3 women that had hysterectomies. They all cried like babies within a week of having it. They all described a sense of great loss. I think it was a reaction chemically/hormonal.
Bipolar disorder is often mixed with depression and pretty much indisputable.
As far as Sheath goes...wow. You have an assortment of issues. Try using some of that positive "get over it" mentality and curb that anger. I don't blame you for being pissed though, I empathize with you totally. Sometimes people get crazy with the medication thing.
I had an old friend that summed it up pretty well. "Eat right, get plenty of exercise and rest." I think he was pretty much on the mark.

Ehhe.. sorry, *scratches head* just got off on a bit of a rant thar, anyways, yup.. chill pills is good xD (if anyone cares, i'm not completely anti drug, i do take pills that are like caffene pills, to give me a bit more energy throughout the day.)

My shrink diagnosed me with depression within fifteen minutes and no tests where ever preformed. Prescribed me meds and everything.

Later on the shrink had the idea that I wasn't eating and threatened to me in one of those institutes where they stick a needle in your arm...I was skinny but not underweight. The doctor failed to look into the fact that I have a very high metabolism that keeps me skinny.

Or the time the shrink had the idea that I was a closet homosexual because I wasn't dating...Thought i needed to attend anger management classes, which is insulting to my character considering i never get angry, and the list goes on.

Psychologists compare you to what is the "norm''.

They pass medication out like its candy. People think that the medicine will do all the work and "cure them'' but in truth you have to overcome it yourself.

Now there are instances when medication is necessarily but the shrinks will hand out meds to anyone who has a bad day.

People don't responsibility for themselves anymore...people are angry, fat, drug addicts, murders, sad, gamblers, etc. because they have a "mental disease".

I'm diagnosed bipolar which means depression comes and goes all the time in my life. Choice is a luxury i don't have when it comes to choosing how i want to see the world. I just take it as it comes.

I think people with perfect working minds have a real problem feeling what it's like when your brain isn't working correct or understanding it the least.

Telling a depressive person to "snap out of it" is like telling a guy in a wheelchair to stop beeing a ***** and get up and walk. Your ignorant to the bone.

I think that our physiology can contribute to depression in some cases but isn't the sole cause. Funny this. It really is. I don't wanna get all religious and preachy in here but with this I can't help it just a little.

The first of the four noble truths that buddha percieved is that: life is suffering. The other three noble truths set out what the cause is and how to cure the suffering. In this day and age i think buddhism being applied on a practical basis is perhaps the best medicine to cure any depression.

We suffer when we dont get what we want, when we get what we dont want and also when we do get what we want because we live(well our perception of it anyway) in a world of time and in time everything passes including our happiness and health.

I'm not talking about your type of illness or others like them. I'm more or less talking about the people who can snap out of it but psychologists still hand them meds.

I'm also complaining about the fact that their are no real tests done a lot of times with certain mental illnesses. I could just fake being depresses and get a bunch of meds...why isn't there a test to detect the chemical imbalances in the brain?

Because there is actually no proof that mental illness is the result of a chemical imbalance in the brain!

Hi brave, might I direct you to here?(and anybody else who is interested)

You know, when you put this message in reply the blocked out message is displayed. Yes the treatment has help a great deal. I am getting A's in my classes again. See what you don't understand is I have an illness that damages the brain and causes a great deal of pain and crippling. Yes the brain is very good at healing it self but sometimes it needs a little help. Too bad you can't get help for your brain as it seems to have some problems.

ah hah... wellll... i aint gonna make this personal like you appear (at least to me) to want to, but i will point out that you didn't answer the question. have you ever once considered wether it was because you believe you're getting better that you're getting better?

Sheath you should use a little compassion in your comments. There are people who can 'get over it' as you've said, but some people need a little help in dealing with their their lives and the world around them. Drugs can improve their quality of life, improve their relationships with people and their perspectives. Each case is different.

Interesting

I suffer from both Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Major Depression. I've been hospitalized, been through partial-hospitalization 9 months of a day program. I take medication, but it merely takes the edge off. I am much better off with the combination of medication and cognitive therapy, so I see both a psychiatrist and a therapist. When I try to go without medication I am more of wreck, and when I skip therapy I find my thoughts running away with me.

If I'm not mistaken, patients with Depression respond most favorably to a combination of treatments. In my case, the psychotherapy is nearly useless without medication, and without psychotherapy medication barely handles the tip of the iceburg.

I hope this helps.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

I wholeheartedly agree.

If anyone is sincerely interested in how I live with two mental illnesses or with either just PM and I will be happy to provide details.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

For once I must disagree with you. Check out these links:

http://hcpc.uth.tmc.edu/mental_illnesses.htm

http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/depression/l/blbl100.htm

"For example, the brain chemistry of a person with major depression is different from that of a nondepressed person, and antidepressant medication can be used (often in combination with psychotherapy) to bring the brain chemistry back to normal." http://www.healthyplace.com/site/mental_illness.asp

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

Not that i know a lot about the subject, but i think i have a mild form of bipola disorder. I experiance hightened forms of emotion at both ends of the spectrum and go from highs to lows immediately and without any prompt.

Still, i think depression isn's somthing that should be cataegorized like it clearly is and i find it somewhat agrovating the amount of people claiming they have it. My mum claimed to after my dad left her but as soon as she found somone new she was off the pills.

I think with a lot of people, like my mum, a change in lifestyle was simply too much to cope with. I don't think that is depression. It speaks more of addiction and withdrawal symptoms, to me. For my mum, at least, it was a reliance and an expenctance for how things 'should' be.

brave_new_world

Depression, what for you is a keyword that you type in Google's search box, for many people here, is a reality that we have to deal with and endure on a daily basis.
While all opinions are valued on this forum, please take a moment to think about that, next time you feel the need to post.......

Of course I do, I've experienced it. I had a nervous breakdown with depression last year. Why would you question if it's real?

Goodness, I don't think some people understand that clinical depression is in no way like normal mopey teenage angst where people just are being over dramatic. It's not something you can just snap out of. Can you tell a person with a hallucination problem to just stop seeing things? No! There is no "you are just being weak" and people like that are so on there high horse they will never understand. It's not like people who are depressed in any way want to be.

They. Can't. Help. It!

People, when you are depressed to a point that you need meds, it's not something you can just snap out of. It's not "life is suffering". You have to understand that these people may not even have a remotely bad life. It's just something that can happen and clinical depression can make you think like a crazy person. You are in a constant mood that no amount of fun is going to take you out of. Any ladies here have PMDD? If so, think of it like that. Sure normal pms sucks but imagine becoming absolutely suicidal for no reason once a month and having constant crying spells. Imagine feeling like you want to die but you just have no clue why.
Thats what being severely depressed is. Yes, people with horrible lives and wonderful lives are suceptable to depression.

For some people, after taking meds for depression, it's like a breath of fresh air. Like seeing the world for the first time. As cheesy as that sounds, being depressed is like being in a fog and coming out for the first time is a great feeling. You now realize why life can be so great.

Of course the shrink can be a real pill pusher. Not all shrinks are great. Use your own judgement as well and I do not in any way reccomend pills to people unless they really need it. Like I said in my last post, these pills can really mess you up and make you even worse so make sure to keep note of any changes in your mood.

Also, there is a differece between a person who cannot deal with life because of bad situations (a mood they can pull themself out of if something good happens) and a person who just constantly feels sad no matter what and can't function through out their daily life. Pills aren't some sort of easy way out, for some, they might be the only chance for them to ever experience a normal life.

I'm not one to insult, but until you understand that medications for mental illness have come a long way in the last 10 or so years. There has been so much hype over Prozac, that many people don't understand that antidepressants aren't "happy pills" (those would be the Benzodiazapines like Valium); they are chemicals which can help with subtle changes in brain chemistry. For instance, Prozac is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Some patients respond favorably to that family of drugs, so one could say that for them too much serotonin might be produced in their brains. There are others which affect different chemicals.

My mother suffered from clinical depression for as long as I can remember, and I thought she was just a miserable person. She was into her 70s when she was finally diagnosed and treated. She and I both agreed that she should have been evaluated much earlier, because her brother committed suicide and she had attempted suicide herself. My mom was a tuff old goat, a strong willed Capricorn. If she could have willed herself out of her misery she would have.

One problem with psych drugs, imo, is that they are over prescribed by well meaning general practitioners without a proper mental health assessment by a competent psychiatrist or therapist.

btw, I was referred to a psychiatrist by my therapist after the first week of therapy. She was right; I wasn't able to help myself until the medications helped me. People with Major Depression can also have hallucinations, which must be assessed. Medication may not be necessary for everyone; in my case it has been a life-saver, both my own and those around me. I was once suicidal; now I have homicidal thoughts.

Would you want me unmedicated???

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

It will differ from case to case. I agree that medication is needed but it isn't needed in every case. Some people that have bin diagnosed with depression have just snapped out of it, I know a couple. It depends on the individual person and the individual mental illnesses...your talking about the more serious "heavy duty" mental illnesses where medication is needed and theres no way around it...I'm not talking about that type.

I'm more or less talking about when a family member dies and you become depressed and a psychologist gives you medication...or when you get picked on at school and get depressed...stuff like that. The type of depression that isn't permanent and isn't a chemical imbalance or defect in the brain.

Me thinks our young friend Sheath needs a higher level education before speaking out about things you don't know much about.

Lets not say education, lets say more experience, in a general manner. Where he is in life right now, what he is saying may feel absolutely right. That may change with a few more miles on the odometer.

Yes is does differ from case to case. Thats why it is such a shame that a lot of psychiatrists are big pill pushers without actually looking at the situation enough. I think that is just a case of people not really careing and wanting money. Shame really.

I mentioned at the end of my post that there is a difference between someone who has had a bad incident happen and gets depressed (and will get over it when something good happens) and someone who just can't feel good no matter what.

I think meds are taken too lightly in too many cases (given out when they shouldn't be..sort of how like everyone is quick to diagnose a hyper child with ADD ) and then others with serious illnesses have to be worried about looking like "p*ssies" ( ) when they have to take meds to even live a normal life.

Also, someone tried to diagnose me with ADD in highschool. Funny, since I'm not hyperactive at all. Quite the opposite, actually. My counsler had me sent to a psychologist. He did a lot of tests on me and I came out perfectly fine and did very well on a lot of the academic tests. My problem wasn't that I had an attention disorder, I just hated school with a burning passion and was really really lazy. I do have problems with depression though. Not the kind that just gets better either. It's pretty mild, so I am not on pills, but I had to be put on BC because once a month I feel like I can't even deal with life. It's strange, I am fine and then it just gets amplified where I am having constant anxiety attacks and can't sleep or concentrate. I can't even explain the absolute hell it can be. Ah, the joys of being a woman

Also, I can't drink anything with a high ammount of caffine, or it's BAM, instant anxiety attack lol. It's a shame, sometimes I just torture myself because I love frapuccinos and a few other tastey things out there



Yes, I hate to be brash, but the "tough guy" act is immature and inaccurate.

I'm going to go with egg on this one though and say that he probably needs more life experience.

Dont take offense by that remark. I only said it because it is from the information I have been given on the subject. I never said I wasnt open to other possibilities but apparently there are many psychiatrists out there who say that the chemical imbalance theory is a myth or at best incomplete. So yeah I may be wrong but this is a heated debate between many psychiatrists.

THE "CHEMICAL IMBALANCE" MYTH

http://www.drugsandyourmind.com/chembal.html

"Patients have been diagnosed with 'chemical imbalances', despite the fact that no test exists to support such a claim, and that there is no real conception of what a correct chemical balance would look like." - David Kaiser, "Commentary: Against Biologic Psychiatry," Psychiatric Times, December 1996.

“"In medicine, strict criteria exist for calling a condition a disease. In addition to a predictable cluster of symptoms, the cause of the symptoms or some understanding of their physiology must be established. ... Psychiatry is unique among medical specialties in that... We do not yet have proof either of the cause or the physiology for any psychiatric diagnosis. ... In recent decades, we have had no shortage of alleged biochemical imbalances for psychiatric conditions. Diligent though these attempts have been, not one has been proven. Quite the contrary. In every instance where such an imbalance was thought to have been found, it was later proven false. ... No claim of a gene for a psychiatric condition has stood the test of time, in spite of popular misinformation." - Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, in his book Prozac Backlash (Simon & Schuster, New York, 2000), pages 192-193, page 196, and page 198

"There is no scientific evidence proving that a chemical imbalance in the brain is responsible for the symptoms attributed to ADHD, or that ADHD is a "brain-based disease," yet this is repeatedly claimed as fact by psychiatrists. In 1998, a U.S. National Institutes of Health Conference of the world's leading ADHD experts, was forced to conclude that there is no data confirming it as a brain dysfunction". - Kelly Patricia O'Meara, "Doping Kids," Insight, June 28, 1999.

"Although each of the SSRI manufacturers admit they do not know how their respective drugs work, each claim that they help to correct a chemical imbalance of the brain. The assumption for each of these drugs is that if a person is depressed (each and every depressed person), they have a reduced number of neurotransmitters in the brain called serotonin. As one well-known psychiatrist put it: “[SSRIs] are not correcting a biochemical imbalance, these drugs create severe imbalances in the brain. ... The idea that human suffering, psychological suffering, is biochemical is strictly a promotional campaign, perhaps the most successful in the history of the world, created by the drug companies. We do not even have a technology, a scientific technology, for measuring what happens inside the brain ... it is literally a fabrication.�

The next time you see a Zoloft, Prozac, or Paxil commercial, watch carefully. You will see that, when the drug company explains that depression is a serious medical illness caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, it will be prefaced with the word "may" i.e., "depression may be caused by a biochemical imbalance in the brain." They must preface this statement with "may" because this theory has not been scientifically established. This unproven theory has been propagated by the pharmaceutical industry in order to sell psychotropic (mind-altering) drugs.

In May 2003, GlaxoSmithKline (“GSK�), the maker of Paxil, an antidepressant in the same class as Zoloft, announced in Ireland (The Irish Times, Saturday May 10, 2003) that it was withdrawing claims contained in Paxil (called Seroxat in Ireland and the UK) brochures that the drug worked by normalizing the levels of serotonin. GSK was forced to acknowledge that the link between depression and serotonin levels is unproven and that its claims “were not consistent with the scientific literature.�

If your doctor tells you that these drugs will correct an imbalance in your brain chemicals, please realize that more than likely your doctor got this from drug company representatives as part of the drug companies’ marketing activities. There is no scientific evidence to support such a statement. Just because you are depressed does not mean that there is something wrong with your brain chemicals." - Zoloft side effects web site

"The fact of the matter is that there is no such thing as a "chemical imbalance" diagnosed by psychiatrists; this was a market-place concept invented in 60's put forth at a Congressional hearing in 1970 and ever since, the stuff of a "big lie"…"chemical imbalances" for which to prescribe and sell "chemical balancers" …pills. What's more the FDA is a full partner in this. They know all drugs as foreign compounds are poisons who's benefits are to be carefully weighed against the risks of the disease to be treated. They at the FDA know there are no diseases/physical risk in the psychiatry risk vs. benefit analysis and yet, along with the psychopharm cartel they push the fraudulent notion of psychiatric "disease"/"chemical imbalance."

"All "biological psychiatry" that claiming every negative emotion and behavior is a "disease"/"chemical imbalance" needing--requiring "treatment" is no less a pseudoscience, its imposition by government, through the schools, hardly less totalitarian than the Nazi imposition of eugenics. 17% of the nations school children on psychiatric drugs, our children consume 90% of the world supply of schedule 2 stimulants. The Zoloft ad pictures the "chemical imbalance" and its re-balancing by Zoloft, the chemical balancer. This simple little twist of science, a total, 100% lie and abrogation of informed consent is behind every psychopharm prescription." - Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD Neurology & Child Neurology

"The simple fact is that there is absolutely no reliable test that accurately distinguishes between children that are supposed to have "ADHD" and those that are not. The simplest way to counter this statement is to ask for a medical test to prove that your child has "ADHD." Many physicians will respond to your request by saying that the test is too expensive. You must persevere and ask that your insurance company pay for those tests. You can also ask any professional to show you the article or articles in the scientific literature that proves the existence of a confirmatory physical or chemical abnormality that validates the existence of ADHD as a medical disease. The plain truth is that no such article exists. If someone gives you an article, please share and discuss it with someone who can critically analyze it." -

"The brain does have chemicals that help cells "talk" to each other that are called neurotransmitters. However, when a professional says that one of these chemicals, usually a variety of something called Dopamine, needs some kind of correction, and that they have just the right kind of medicine to do this, you are being misled. This idea assumes that nerves only "talk" to nerves that use the same chemicals. That is absolutely positively false. It is a lie at worst, a gross oversimplification at best. It is unethical for a medical professional to state or imply otherwise." Breeding, J. The Wildest Colts Make The Best Horses. Bright Books, 1996 & Breggin, P. Talking Back To Ritalin. Common Courage Press, 1998.

"Remember that no biochemical, neurological, or genetic markers have been found for attention deficit disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, depression, schizophrenia, anxiety, compulsive alcohol and drug abuse, overeating, gambling, or any other so-called mental illness, disease, or disorder." - Bruce Levine, Ph.D. (psychologist), Commonsense Rebellion: Debunking Psychiatry, Confronting Society (Continuum, New York 2001), p. 277.

"In The Broken Brain, University of Iowa psychiatry professor Nancy Andreasen, M.D., Ph.D also describes what she calls "the most widely accepted theory about the cause of depression...the `catecholamine hypothesis.'" She emphasizes that "the catecholamine hypothesis is theory rather than fact" (p. 231). She says "This hypothesis suggests that patients suffering from depression have a deficit of norepinephrine in the brain" (p. 183), norepinephrine being one of the "major catecholamine systems" in the brain (pp. 231-232). One way the catecholamine hypothesis is evaluated is by studying one of the breakdown products of norepinephrine, called MHPG, in urine. People with so-called depressive illness "tended to have lower MHPG" (p. 234). The problem with this theory, according to Dr. Andreasen, is that "not all patients with depression have low MHPG" (ibid). She accordingly concludes that this catecholamine hypothesis "has not yet explained the mechanism causing depression" (p. 184).

Another theory is that severe unhappiness ("depression") is caused by lowered levels or abnormal use of another brain chemical, serotonin. A panel of experts assembled by the U.S. Congress Office of Technology Assessment reported in 1992 that "Prominent hypotheses concerning depression have focused on altered function of the group of neurotransmitters called monoamines (i.e., norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin, dopamine), particularly norepinephrine (NE) and serotonin. ... studies of the NE [norepinephrine] autoreceptor in depression have found no specific evidence of an abnormality to date. Currently, no clear evidence links abnormal serotonin receptor activity in the brain to depression. ... the data currently available do not provide consistent evidence either for altered neurotransmitter levels or for disruption of normal receptor activity" (The Biology of Mental Disorders, U.S. Gov't Printing Office, 1992, pp. 82 & 84).

Even if it was shown there is some biological change or abnormality "associated" with depression, the question would remain whether this is a cause or an effect of the "depression". At least one brain-scan study (using positron emission tomography or PET scans) found that simply asking normal people to imagine or recall a situation that would make them feel very sad resulted in significant changes in blood flow in the brain (Jose V. Pardo, M.D., Ph.D., et al., "Neural Correlates of Self-Induced Dysphoria", American Journal of Psychiatry, May 1993, p. 713). Other research will probably confirm it is emotions that cause biological changes in the brain rather than biological changes in the brain causing emotions.

A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found. ... Still, patients are often given the impression that a definitive serotonin deficiency in depression is firmly established. ... The result is an undue inflation of the drug market, as well as an unfortunate downplaying of the need for psychological treatments for many patients." Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, in his book Prozac Backlash (Simon & Schuster, New York, 2000), pages 197-198." - Lawrence Stevens, J.D

"There is no evidence that any psychiatric or psychological disorder is caused by a biochemical imbalance." - Peter Breggin M.D., in his book Reclaiming Our Children (Persues Books, Cambridge, Mass., 2000), page 139.

"First, no biological etiology has been proven for any psychiatric disorder (except Alzheimer's disease, which has a genetic component) in spite of decades of research. ... So don't accept the myth that we can make an 'accurate diagnosis.' ... Neither should you believe that your problems are due solely to a 'chemical imbalance.'" - Edward Drummond, M.D., Associate Medical Director at Seacoast Mental Health Center in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, in his book The Complete Guide to Psychiatric Drugs (John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York, 2000), pages 15-16.

"I am constantly amazed by how many patients who come to see me believe or want to believe that their difficulties are biologic and can be relieved by a pill. This is despite the fact that modern psychiatry has yet to convincingly prove the genetic/biologic cause of any single mental illness. However, this does not stop psychiatry from making essentially unproven claims that depression, bipolar illness, anxiety disorders, alcoholism and a host of other disorders are in fact primarily biologic and probably genetic in origin, and that it is only a matter of time until all this is proven. This kind of faith in science and progress is staggering, not to mention naive and perhaps delusional." - Dr. David Kaiser, M.D. Psychiatrist

"MYTH: That depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain.

The increase in the rate of depression revealed in epidemiological studies makes it clear that depression is not a biological disease. Genes do not change that quickly. (Despite the explosion in genetic research and gene mapping, and high hopes of finding a gene for everything, no ‘depression gene’ exists because genes don’t work that way.) Over the last three decades conclusive evidence has mounted to show that the vast majority of depressions are learned, created by the way we interact with our environment. We now know that depression is not an event-driven phenomenon – it is not caused by specific events per se. The majority of people exposed to adverse life circumstances do not develop depression. The reaction of depression is caused by how individuals have learned to respond to adverse life experiences.

Further support for the environmental or learned view of depression is the evidence that depression responds well to certain kinds of psychotherapeutic intervention. Moreover, such interventions greatly reduce the rate of relapse compared to drug treatments based on the biological model. The brain is sufficiently conditionable by experiences, and reconditionable, that depressed people can be helped to adapt more effectively to the pressures and uncertainties of modern living, whatever their history. They can learn to respond to adverse life circumstances in better ways.

That there is a biological component to depression is undisputed since all our emotions are expressed in the language of biochemistry. Also, depression affects our biology by, for example, impairing our immune system. But the idea that depression is the result of a chemical imbalance in the brain, so disempowering and yet so fervently promoted by drug manufacturers, is wrong. It is now clear that changes in serotonin levels in the brains of depressed people are a consequence of depression, not the cause of it. Serotonin levels fluctuate constantly and are directly correlated with the effectiveness with which we live our lives. Life enhancing experiences raise serotonin levels at least as effectively as drugs and more instantaneously and with none of the inherent risks that taking antidepressant drugs involve." - Human Givens Institute

"The claim is continually made that the drugs repair chemical imbalances in the brain. This claim is false. It is still not possible to measure the exact levels of neurotransmitters in specific synapses within the human brain. How, then, is it possible to make claims about chemical imbalances?" - Philip Owen, psychologist "Sad script for the stressed," Daily Telegraph (Sydney, Australia) Letters to the Editor, 2 Sept. 2003. [/b]

"Contrary to what is often claimed, no biochemical, anatomical, or functional signs have been found that reliably distinguish the brains of mental patients." - Elliot S. Valenstien, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of Michigan, in his book Blaming the Brain: The Truth About Drugs and Mental Health (The Free Press, New York, 1998), p. 125.

"...there are no external validating criteria for psychiatric diagnoses. There is neither a blood test nor specific anatomic lesions for any major psychiatric disorder." - From a letter dated December 4, 1998 by Loren R. Mosher, M.D., a psychiatrist, resigning from the American Psychiatric Association.

"A disease is a condition that has a known cause and can be identified by one or another set of laboratory tests." - Miryam Ehrlich Williamson, Fibromyalgia: A Comprehensive Approach, 2000, Chapter 1.

"We really do not know what causes any psychiatric illness." - Jack M. Gorman, M.D., Professor of Psychiatry at Columbia University, in his book The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs - Third Edition (St. Martin's Press, New York, 1997), p. 314.


http://www.drugsandyourmind.com/chembal.html

I myself believe that depression isnt a chemical imbalance in the brain. I posted some information here by people who are qualified to have a worthy opinion on the subject and my intutition tells me they are right. I think making depression a mental illness is just a way of selling pharmaceutical drugs to make massive profits.

The lack of energy is all in your head ... don't feel so lost, maybe you should change your diet... or maybe, just maybe you shouldn't waste your energy and time being an a**h*le and telling people online to kill themselves because it gets you nowhere.

One thing is for sure, being depressed is much better than being a rude, disrespectful person who lacks care for another human being. But there isn't a cure for everything, wouldn't you say?

Okay we are on the same page

I was "diagnosed" with depression by a psychologist within fifteen minutes of meeting her...she gave me the pills and everything. I never thought I was depressed by the way(never took the pills). Even if I did have depression she didn't even try to like consul or "talk me through it" or anything...just gave me pills.

On a side note...you know what the worst mental illness test there is? That ink blot test...they all just look like ink blots and even if I use my imagination all I could say was "It looks like a retarded, handicapped, buggy thing". I have no idea how people conclude anything from that test.

Ink blot test is ridiculouse. If you see "the wrong thing" there might be something emotionally wrong with you. Yeah ok.

Voted Yes, it Can be. Doesn't Have to be. Every Body is different. Commonality doesn't make the uncommon impossible.

Alrighty, since people seem to be enjoying bashing me, i suppose i should clarify <.< first off, the tough guy act isn't an act, its my unfortunate personality, yes, it causes me to not have many friends, yes, it gets me in trouble because it makes me seem like i think i know what im saying. i dont try to act that way, i just do, and i am working on becoming more.. subservient? anyway, i am not saying that there aren't any people that have serious troubles and most definitely the medicine helps them, but even saying that.. ehh.. lemme try and explain without getting the wrong idea across.. if you think of it as a number scale, you may have a -5 depression. your mind can only gives you +3, leaving you with a -2 depression. medicine, sits at a +3 level, so when you take it, your depression is only a -2. therefore, your mind, can make you get along.

depression + mind = depression
-5 + 3 = -2

depression + meds + mind = not depression
-5 + 3 + 3 = +1

what im saying, is that in the end, it all comes down to your mind. taking the medication wont get rid of your depression, and i doubt theres one person here who can honestly say that they've gone on medications and had their depression HEALED because of them. my opinions stand that you should build your mind, and work on making it better. so, lets say you meditate every day for 5 years, and you improve your methods of dealing with depression by +3.

depression + mind + mind(improvement) = not depression
-5 + 3 + 3 = +1

now, i aint a professional, and im not old, i dont have experience, i haven't lived through many tradgedies, and even if i had, i'm in no place of education to tell anyone that this will work. but drugs DO NOT **HEAL** anything, and anyone who disagrees with that is very, very wrong. drugs can assist, drugs can take pain away, but drugs dont fix. i wouldn't dare say that people dont need the drugs, and i dont think that i have said that yet. as for my comment about scuicide cases, i should've clarified, i only meant people who are scuicidal even after taking medicine.

as for that,

A ) i haven't told anyone (directly) to kill themselves, i made a general statement.

B ) you're completely correct, it is all in my head, i do need to change my diet (badly, actually) and i shouldn't waste my time giving my opinions to people who (mostly) instantly take them to be negative instead of thinking about the meaning behind them (A.K.A. being an "a**h*le")

C ) i am rude, i am disrespectful, and i lack care for human beings. this is because i have no reason to be polite yet (especially to those who've just said bad things about me) none of you deserve my respect, or each others respect for that matter, since it can be given or taken freely based on what you believe the person behind the name to be, and caring comes from caring, i care about people who care about me. i've been hurt in the past, and thats how it is.

People, while this may seem like a defensive comment, its completely true no matter how you want to look at it.

You should respect everyones opinion, because its not your own. Even if you dont like someones opinion, its another outlook on life, and should be given respect no matter how insulting, rediculous, racist, sexist, or just plain stupid it is. It doesn't need to be valued, it doesn't need to be enjoyed, but it should be respected, and I respect the fact that you all think you're right, even if I know you're wrong, because you all believe the same, that i think im right, even though you know I'm wrong. Everyone who disagrees with you teaches you something, even if its only that someone thinks something other then you do.

I'll leave it at that for now, and also, any moderators or whoever who thinks this may be getting too much into a personal conflict, just PM me and i'll ease off a bit.

That is just a poor doctor. There is a lot of them out there in every medical field. It took two visit for the diagnosis and what meds might be best. No ink blots.

What i think Sheath is trying to say is that medication alone won't solve anything. Like if you have a broken leg it isn't going to help if you have a cast if your still trying to play football.

It depends on what type of mental illness you have though...there are cases where medication will just put you back to normal(if you where normal in the begining that is). It may just be a chemical imbalance that can be treated but it could also have to do with emotional and/or psychological problems.

I agree totally with RougeRat. Although true clinical depression has been over-diagnosed, those of us with the disease know how uncontrollable it is without medical help.

About five years ago, I found myself growing more and more tired. I was gaining weight even though I wasn't eating much. I wanted to sleep all day. I wanted to cry when I wasn't asleep. The funny thing was, I had a wonderful life--I had nothing to cry about!

After trying for months to "just get over it", I called my doctor in desperation. I was in tears. I begged him to send me to a psychiatrist, because I would get suicidal thoughts when I knew, logically, I didn't want to die. He said, "Well, we can do that--but why don't we run some tests, first?"

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, which messes with your hormones and chemical levels in the body. It can effect almost every aspect of your life if left undiagnosed, and can ultimately lead to stroke, heart attack and death. In the past, before we knew what thyroid disease was about, people in my condition would end up in a mental health facility until they died as the result of the disease.

I now take synthroid, which helps quite a bit, but I still have to take an antidepressant which improves my quality of life. Many people have the wrong opinion about these drugs--they don't make your problems go away as if you were in a happy stupor constantly. They simply make it easier to cope with the depression and allows you to enjoy life again.

Until you experience true clinical depression yourself (WHICH IS NOT SIMPLY FEELING 'BLUE' ONCE AND AWHILE), I suggest you do some serious research about the conditions of the disease before you say, "Just get over it." (Wish Tom Cruise could get the hint.)

well, i must admit that it angers me a bit to hear some of you guys saying depression does not exist. it is a disease, a chemical imbalance, just like diabetes or something of that sort is. and naturally, in order to correct a chemical imbalance, you need to take medication. i don't understand how you could say that bipolar disorder is real but that depression isn't. bipolar disorder is composed of two parts: mania and depression, thus you have to admit that depression exists in order to admit that bipolar disorder exists.

anyway, i'm not one of those people that takes medication to "cure my problems". because in all reality, i am taking antidepressants mainly for the anxiety and ocd. (zoloft helps many different mental illnesses, including anxiety, ocd, and depression) my depression is hardly affected by the medication, which is why my psychiatrist is still trying to find a combo of meds that work for me. and it should be made CLEAR that medication is not there to stop the problem or provide a "quick-fix"... you are 75% responsible for any changes that happen. the medication is just there as an aide.

depression is very real. you try going for months, waking up every morning only to wonder why you don't just kill yourself, to lay there and wish you could sleep forever, to feel as if you are being torn away from the world around you and kept in a room of darkness. day in and day out you feel the hopelessness, the helplessness, the sadness of living without any reason. nothing is keeping you here. nothing can cheer you up. you continually think about buying a gun, or perhaps just overdosing. the only thing keeping you from doing so is a small glint of hope that tomorrow might bring a change. tomorrow might be better. but tomorrow never is better. and the darkness slowly engulfs you, sucking the life out of you, leaving you to walk around with a hollow chest, an empty heart, and no hope, no expectations, for the future. you live like this for a few months. and then tell me whether or not depression is real. i dare you.

You don't have to change anything about you......Just be yourself.....From where I'm sitting, you make a lot of sense and you do it with a bit more ooomph and a lot more words.....You've got passion Sheath and it's great to be passionate in life.....