can i ask a question.do any of the non-believers every worry at least a little about if they are wrong about if god is real.? i mean if the christians are wrong then it doesn't matter. when we die we just die. but if there is a god and i believe there is what happens when you die? then its to late to say oh crap was i wrong. i'm new at this and i don't want to start anything that will offend. thats not what this is about. i was just wondering. thanks for any input.

For me if God was real I'd be so disgusted by him I wouldn't want to serve him anyway so it wouldn't matter.

Even if it was proven to me that god was real, even if he appeared before me in a dazzle of light I would still not worship him. I don't believe any being is worthy of my worship and any being that goes out of there way to get it is even less worthy.

Were god to be proven to me I might respect him for his power but Never would I worship him...

However if I am to turn this around are you saying you only worship because you don't want to take the risk of not worshipping? Because if so I don't know if that is belief so much as just hedging your bet.

Anyway as I said, I don't consider any being to be worthy of worship no matter how powerful they are.

no i worship him because of what he does for me. the things i have seen that i know had to come from a higher power. for me going thru life without his help is crazy. heaven is a bonus.

Ahhh the "luke warm" christian theory, otherwise known as "better safe than sorry".

Its funny that so many people tell you that the christian god is all merciful, but he only gives you one shot to make the right choice, and with only partial information. And, rather than give demonstrable proof of his existence, he would prefer that his creations blindly follow the teachings of people that have long ago turned to dust.


If that is what gives you comfort, and makes you sleep well at night, then all power to you.

As to the querstion posted, the answer is no I do not worry that I might be wrong. IF god is real, he/she/it will not be the god of your bible, in my opinion.

I think you're assuming that the absence of christianity is atheism, materialism, no-afterlife. And that you're ignoring the equally likely possibility that you might have an afterlife being run by a non-christian deity, who wouldn't necessarily be overjoyed by your beliefs. So wouldn't it matter that you were wrong?

As a Christian, I have definitely thoughts about this--frankly, as a Christian, I refuse to presume that my Christianity and my faith will gain me anything in an afterlife. The athiests could have it right, but this is where I differ...

Many of my own Christian bretheren have and will continue to call my sect an apostacy, and I am well aware of this--I have already made peace with the fact that if I'm wrong about my faith, I must accept full responsibility for my error. It's really as simple as that. Do I want to believe I'm in error? No, of course not. Do I think I'm wrong? Of course not... but in the off chance I am, then it's up to me to understand the errors of my ways. I'm not going to be mad at God, I'm not going to be mad at myself, I'm going to suck it up and take my punishment... if I end up in the "wrong" place, it's seriously going to be an "Oh Crap" moment, but there it is and it's mine to deal with.

What I always wondered is if those athiests who absolutely don't believe but are really great people and by chance end up in a "heaven" -- is that going to be an "Oh crap" moment? Or is it going to be a "Oh neat" moment? : This is really meant to be humor, and not to be debated seriously... but the thought has always been rather amusing to me since I think I know serveral athiests that are going to end up in heaven and I REALLY want to see the look on their faces. hahaha

I wouldn't change my life a bit. Are you asking what I would do if when I died I found out it was all real? I can't really answer that question because I have no idea what God would do. Although I would ask God "Is this all there is?".

This may sound arrogant but I don't want heaven...I wish for more.

I don't have this fear anymore thankfully. Anyhow, if I worshiped God soley for the purpose that I was afraid of hell, I would think that would be for the complete wrong reason and it would be a waste of time to do it that way.

I don't worry about it at all.

If I get sent to some crappy place for not being a believer in a certain deity...then so be it.I always accept the consequences of my actions,whether they are for good or ill....which is a trait that I see very few people have in this age of time.

There may be many different things that can happen after death,but I do not wish to waste my time worrying about what happens to me at the end of my life.Time is too precious to waste on such thoughts,seeing as how there are a whole lot of things that I still wish to do,see or experience in this life.

Well I don't se the point of worrying, there are a lot of theories on how to be saved and a lot of beliefers will tell you it is the 'only true way', though 'the only true way' seems to differ depending on who you talk to. So what if I start believing because I am scared I will go to hell or wherever if I don't (which I personally don't think is a good reason to believe anything) and I believe the wrong thing and still go to hell ,same difference right?
What are the chances of choosing the right faith when there are so many? I would be a hypocrite if I suddenly started running to church because I wanted to be 'on the safe side' because I would be pretending to believe in something I could not believe in, not good either is it? Or is pretending to believe still better than openly not believing?
I am not a spiritual person, it would not change by going to church, I would be doing it 'just in case' and there would be nothing else to it, even when i was a kid and introduced to the concept of god and prayer, I did it because I thought it was the 'proper' thing to do but I never really believed any of it....
I'd rather be an atheist/agnostic/whatever and hopefully a good person (not out of the fear of a deity but because I want to be) and face the potential consequences than being a 'religious' hypocrite (as I could never be a 'true believer'), which in my books would be less deserving of a reward (say heaven).
If there is a god and he sees that differently, well, I will have to face the consequences.And yes, if you are right and your god is every bit as bitter about not being worshipped as he has been made out to be by a lot of other people I have talked, to, yes I will be going to hell but I could have never genuinly worshipped a god like that even if I knew for a fact that he existed so I am doomed (by religious standards) no matter what path I choose, am I not? So why bother worrying.

Heaven or Hell who cares? It's all about the here and now. Just keep busy on enjoying the fact that you are alive and well and love every minute you have. Life it's self is to short to worry about what's going to happen next!!!!!

Then I will hold my nose and jump in the lake of fire. I wouldn't want to hang with a God like that anyway. My Gods aren't like that if you don't believe in them that is ok, after all you are only human.

I'm completely undecided on the idea of an afterlife. I don't expect to die and to end up somewhere else, but at the same time I wouldn't be completely surprised; although I think it's worth saying I think the idea of any religious form of afterlife is complete bull. It's literally impossible to know until it happens, so it's not even worth giving it a second thought.

But I think you have it backwards, for someone who doesn't believe in the afterlife:
-If there's no afterlife, they're right. Who doesn't like being right?
-If there is an afterlife, then well, there's an afterlife. They have an opportunity to learn and change, it doesn't matter whether they were right or wrong.

It's the religious guys who have it tough, it's all or nothing for them.

This is not really true!!! If the Moslems are right and Christians wrong, then all Christians will be going to the Islamic Hell, a place that makes the Christian Hell look like a training camp for Brownie Scouts! Maybe you need to convert to Islam, just in case they are right! LOL!!! Maybe even convert to Mithraism, since all non-Mithrans automatically go to the Mithran Hell until the "End of Time" To base you beliefs on the possibility or fear of going to eternal torment shows how little you think of the Creator! To actually believe that a loving deity would punish finite sins with infinite torture is ludicrous; this is more like something the "Evil One" of the various revealed religions would do!

I love the following joke, feel free to subsitute the names and beliefs with any you choose to. I chose Christianity because I am a Christian. It's funny, and it's true.

-------------------

At the Pearly Gates and the entrance to heaven, we find a jew, a muslim and a buddhist all waiting to gain acceptance into Heaven.

The Jew approaches St. Peter and awaits his judgment. St. Peter asks him "My son, might I inquire as to your faith?" The Jew replies, "I am a Jew St. Peter." St. Peter looks him up and down and says to him

"My son, I can see that you are a good and righteous man, and I welcome you to the Kingdom of Heaven. Please, follow the hallway to door number 14 but PLEASE be VERY quiet when passing door 12"

The Jew thanks St. Peter, goes down the hallway being careful to be very quiet when passing door 12 and enters into Heaven at door 14.

The Muslim approaches St. Peter and awaits his judgment. St. Peter asks him "My son, might I inquire as to your faith?" The Muslim replies, "I am a Muslim St. Peter." St. Peter looks him up and down and says to him

"My son, I can see that you are a good and righteous man, and I welcome you to the Kingdom of Heaven. Please, follow the hallway to door number 15 but PLEASE be VERY quiet when passing door 12"

The Muslim thanks St. Peter, goes down the hallway being careful to be very quiet when passing door 12 and enters into Heaven at door 15.

The Buddist approaches St. Peter but he looks perplexed and cannot help wondering why St. Peter keeps telling people to be quiet when passing door 12.

St. Peter says to the Buddhist, "My son, you look perplexed, is there perhaps something I can do to assist you?"

The buddhist replies "St. Peter, I am a Buddhist and have been taught to question everything, can you tell me WHY we must be quiet when passing door 12?"

St. Peter begins to laugh and slaps the Buddhist on the back and whispers into his ear.

"My son, of course! Door 12 is where we keep the Christians, they think they're the only ones here!"

it does not matter what others believe, only what you believe. i share your belief for many reasons and i catch a lot of crap for it. i will not change my mind.

randomhit10

^^indeed

Rahhhh! clap, clap, clap. It does'nt exist, but like you, they will hurt you anyway, so i spit on them and always shall, they spit on me, and like you say, they have no right simply because they can. Self is the answer.

You are not here for any reason that would make sense to you, for the one's it does, their dementia that is a result of their insanity will destroy you and yours in the end, for they are in control. Believe in yourself, find it.

agreed for the most part. However, because I agree with that, it comes with a huge responsibility: I can't be smug or elitist about my belief. I can't tell people that my way is the right way. I must be tolerant, fair and loving. The hardest part of doing that is believing deep down, inward and outward... I can't appear to be tolerant on the surface while telling myself your beliefs are screwed up. It doesn't work that way. I don't have to like or agree with various peoples beliefs, but as long as they are doing no harm, violence or war, I must accept that it is your way of life. It's a very very difficult and fine line to tread--I don't always do it as well as I'd like, I think it's why many people choose to let their churches and ministers tell them what to do and how to beliieve--we are human and imperfec and it's simply very difficult to allow yourself to make mistakes AND take responsibility for them.

I don't worry a bit. I know this life is mine to do with as I wish. And if I love myself, and I do, I'll live my life making love to everything I do, because I far prefer happiness, than misery. It hurts me to see people in pain and so I do my small part to help them find peace when I can. It breaks my heart to see animals homeless, and so I give what I can for them to find comfort while they await a new home. And I make my living doing what I love best, because spending irretrievable hours of my life, day after day, so as to earn my living necessitates I enjoy every minute to make it a wealth of experience, in the process.

If there is a god, I do not worry a bit I lived all my days as an Atheist, because anything that can be like unto what they tell me god is suppose to be, as creator of all that exists, is then responsible for making what appears to me as that captured in the Hubble deep field. And that power must be far more creative than the petty and the vindictive spirit alive in flesh that I know lives in this world.

So, given it can make the wonder of super nova's to amaze me, and galaxies to light the black of universe, I know my not believing in an icon like myself, for it's reason for being, is an insignificant matter to what is there beyond our understanding and still to be seen. It will not judge me for not having faith in a being I'm told does so. When it can ignite sun and moon and make the seasons of my life glow day and night, I don't think I need to believe in the heart of it, for it to believe in me.

I don't think that what someone believes will have an effect on what actually IS.

I believe in life after death and other dimensions of existence...but I could be wrong and like everyone else I will only know for sure, when I die.


People who believe in this or that religion can do good or bad things.

People with no religious beliefs can do good or bad things.

If life continues after the death of the physical body believing in god, or not believing in god will make no difference (in my opinion).

What we DO matters. The affect we have matters. What we abstractly believe doesn't matter.

I think that the people who need to worry are the ones who create pain, unhappiness, hurt, fear or death.

If there is no life after death then the 'bad' or 'negative' people will get away with it... BUT...they could be in for a shock.....

well said...every one is responsible for their own salvation no matter what road it leads down...i would not let anyone or other groups (churches, think tanks, etc.) decide for me...i do see many who do...they are so afriad to make a decision they settle for what others allow them to be or they feel that they must choose a side, like playing ball...sad

randomhit10

Thankyou.

Self is more or less the conclusion I have come to as well after looking at the problem from a myriad of angles.

I especially like where you say "they have no right simply because they can". This is quite close to the core of my beliefs.

Just because you can do something doesn't give you a right to do it. Such arrogance I think would not belong to a "perfect" being as the god figures of most religions are.

Well, the one's that people think as perfect, are as far from the notion as anyone else.{perfection does'nt exist} thats the rub, in most of the religious and spiritual tragedys, it is the center of what they supposedly do. You are you, even if you can discover the real you, he would be perfect only in the sense that it is you.

Trust me, i often wonder how a barbar civ{religious} rose to begin with{not really, they had sharp knives} seriously though, a culture based on you being informed that you are dirt, and treated as less then you think you are, needs to perish. And it will. Just look at them go.

I can be funny sometimes.

My beliefs about the cosmos and the soul's journey are a combination of gnosticism, reincarnation, and something else ... What if I am wrong?

Does'nt really matter. Did'nt say that to be cruel either, those who are part of the scenario believe all sorts of things.

Self. Do to others what you would do for yourself, if you must. That requires personal privacy, something lacking here.

If the atheists are right we will never know cause we will be dead. If the Abrahamics are right we will burn in hell or whatever, but at least I'll have lots of friends there. If we Pagans are right we either return here or spend eternity making marry with the ancestors. I really don't worry about it. What ever happens, happens in the end you don't have much control over it anyway.

Control is only nessasary for yourself, by yourself. There is no need to exert it on others, as it is taught here in this scenario.By the barbar civs of the earth.

I meant we don't have control over what happens after we die, what will be will be as they say. We really don't have control of how and when we die either. Control is an illusion.

I agree with you 100%. Great post. Yay for Deism! =D

Of course, Archon Caana, that's why you felt compelled to talk of the genocide you've wished on other lifeforms.

You're doing the right thing.
I feel sorry for the majority of the people who post here. What lost souls they are....

may i ask who you are talking about. if it is christians the n you are wrong. why do you all have to clump all together. the bible says that not everyone that says lord, lord will make it. so not every christain is what he is claiming. but that is with everything humans have to do with.

To have let them continue would have been cruel, and i am picky about the illusions they put in my mind, human only. Their arragence came from them thinking they had a right to exist, just because the empty scum made them. Wisdom is for humans, not scar covered slime who think their real, if you try to see under the images layer, you will see that i did give you a scar, right before i erased you all. Thats not genicide, only clearing negative thoughts from my mind. It can seem to have those kinds of effect though.

he gives you many chances and all the info we need is in the bible. and yes it is better to be safe then sorry. if i am wrong then all this doesnt matter. my belief doesnt come from a bunch of dead people. i wasnt raised to believe that. it didnt come till i was in my 20's. it came from god helping me and showing me he is real. but that is me. he says to work out you own salvation with fear and trembling. so mine is mine and yours is yours.

Fear and trembling...

Any god that wants us to work out our salvation through fear and trembling is incapable of saving even himself.

Besides I have never been afraid to take the consequences of my actions so if I am wrong and you are right then so be it.

Exactly right. You believe what you will, and I will do likewise.

And until our time comes when we depart this physical realm, no one will KNOW the truth. That is why they call it FAITH


According to your god, you have one physical life. One lifetime to make the right choice: believe in your god, go to heaven; believe something else, go to hell. As I said, all the authors of the bible have long ago ceased to be. Yet we are to take their word, blindly and on faith, that they speak for god.


So I take it, from the highlighted portion of your post, that you DON"T believe and follow the bible? That your god sat down with you and personally gave you the inside scoop? If so, then congrats, you are one of the special ones. BUT, until he appears to me and gives me the lowdown, I can only rely on what his publicists have given us. And to be frank, from what I've read, I do not like your god.

But, as I said, if it works for you, then it is good. For you. Not for me.



Be well

If we are wrong we are wrong. We will have to face it regardless. Not much we can do about it.

As this thread was initially posted to engage the replies from those non-believers on board, primarily, I'd like to ask the faithful, to any path, what if you are wrong? What if none like you imagine of an afterlife place, is waiting. What if you simply return from whence you came, to the stardust of human beginnings? (from the dust we were born and unto the dust shall we return again)

I could handle that. What a rush, soaring through universes as a comet. My luck, there's be a speed trap behind the last asteroid and there go those damn flashing lights again!

"I drive waaaay to fast to worry about cholesterol!"



Old habits....

If I am wrong then I will learn from my mistake and be wiser than I was before.

I think this quote from motzart is quite gothic but also intriguing:

As death, when we come to consider it closely, is the true goal of our existence, I have formed during the last few years such close relationships with this best and truest friend of mankind that death's image is not only no longer terrifying to me, but is indeed very soothing and consoling, and I thank my God for graciously granting me the opportunity...of learning that death is the key which unlocks the door to our true happiness. I never lie down at night without reflecting that —- young as I am — I may not live to see another day. Yet no one of all my acquaintances could say that in company I am morose or disgruntled.

To live is to die.

And also this by Johnathan swift: It is impossible that anything so natural, so necessary, and so universal as death, should ever have been designed by providence as an evil to mankind.

If there is nothing after death then there is nothing to worry about. But also on a philosophical note, nothing is something. There is no such thing as nothing hahahahahahaha. Anyway that is my view. And if I am wrong then so what? I am wrong everyday about things and have to correct myself. It is only by being wrong and making mistakes that one becomes wiser.

JMPD1 has it right. It really is an age old Christian counterpoint; i've heard it before. When all else fails and the Christian cannot convert the non-believer, simply resort to the fear tactic. You're more or less saying- "Why not believe just in case"
"What if you're right and I'm wrong, what have i lost by being wrong?"
"What if the light turns red when i thought it was green"
"What if I'm eating chocolate ice cream and it's really vanilla"
You could go in circles for the rest of your life speculating "what if". I for one could not imagine having a relationship with God based on such flipped conditions. And if God is anything like the God of Israel depicted in the bible, he would cast me into hell for that reason alone; (believing for the sake of believing, not because it was truely in my heart)
I would rather devote my life to God because i love him, and believed he loved me too. Not because i feared his judgement and damnation.

Well when I was a christian I had the notion in my head that atleast I tried, and partially the "better safe than sorry" theory. Also, I believe a lot of hardcore christians can't even fathom that the bible is not true. If they even thought that way they would implode or burst into flames from the shock.

i didnt start this topic for me to judge you or you me. i love god and him me. your relationship with him is just that. he tells us what will happen to us if we make the wrong choices but that again is up to each of us. if i am wrong then what i believe will not matter. but then on the other hand......

I understand that you are not out to judge or offend people; and i am certainly not trying to argue with you. It is simply my opinion that by asking the question you are asking, NO you are not offending nor passing judgement; but you are cheapening Christianity. I am not of Christian faith but i do respect it for what it means to (YOU).
How ever IF you are right, tell me....what is the other hand? What therefore should i do? Read my bible more?.....Pay closer attention in Church?
I am well aware of this threat of hell. In fact, the bible gives us many illustrations of hell. It goes into more detail of hell than it does heaven.
If i am still not swayed by the fear element how then does one come to know God as you do?
Again, i do not mean to offend or argue with you, i am also well aware that i am no one to judge you; I'm simply asking a question.
One more thing....If i have offended you, I'm sorry. (sincerely)

Like i have said before if i am wrong and God is real i will simply say sorry God for thinking you did not exist. But just because i would be wrong i still would not worship God i would just acknowledge he is a real entity and that's that nothing more.

This can all be summed up in this fictional dialog: Kissing Hanks ass

http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php

Priceless!