well if the bible is correct the time will come when everyone will have to make a choice weather you believe in it or not. to take the mark or not. to take it means you can buy or sell. have wealth and power. to not take it means starvation. watching people die for not taking it. where do you stand weather you believe in god or not? just wondering.

Who really *needs* wealth and power?

Those who want wealth and power probably have an inferiority complex or suffer from delusions of grandeur.Too,many people wish for these things because they think that if they have them...all of their problems will go away.If these people ever get these things,they will come to find out that having wealth and power just bring you a different set of problems...which are sometimes worse than the problems that you originally had.

As for making a choice...mine was made about 35 years ago,and I do not think that there will be anything that will come along to make me doubt that my choice was the right decision for myself.

Never. Someone wanting to give me a mark to "buy or sell" would only strengthen my beliefs in the Bible's prophecy.
The Christian "black market", would be in full swing. I'd survive with the help of other believers, or we'd all be executed and go to heaven.
Either way, I win.

If the "Mark" is a cookie then yes i will take it...if the "mark" is like a tatoo then I won't, needles are scary.

I'm not going to participate in the End Of Days...I'll just take one of my union regulated vacation days.

I actually think what could be construed as the "mark" is already upon every American citizen, in the form of their Social Security Number. At one time one's parents had to apply for it, shortly after their child was born, now they're given in hospital along with the rest of the paperwork that accompanies the birth.
So it's a means of cataloging the citizenry, as it were. It's a small matter now of implanting the "chips" we hear about for our pets, etc...

There's already a semblance of the "mark" on driver licenses in various States throughout the country. The magnetic strip that appears on the back, like unto that of a credit card, can be swiped and from that all your personal information is readable. If you put that magnetic strip against a magnet, it deactivates it, so it's unable to be scanned. (I know people that do this so as to protect their privacy) However, in some States,like Florida, if that occurs the police officer can take you into custody immediately, because you have no legal proof of ID. They may hold you in custody for as long as 3 days, until you can satisfy the court to your identification. And then you are levied a huge fine for that deactivated magnetic strip.

So, I'd say the mark is already here. If anything it's going to get more blatant, when we're told we'll need to get a retinal scan, for our personal security, or a chip implanted, for the same reason. I know military personnel to which that has already occurred. In the event they refused, their discharge papers were waiting in the same room where they chip was to be implanted. Refuse and they had to sign, without opportunity to read the full stack of paperwork, and they were out of the military just like that.
What many people don't know is that, at least in the States, we the people were made "property" of the Government, the moment our birth certificate was issued in the State we were born. So, what comes next is just a matter of inventory of the slave population.

Maybe if they have me cloned...then he could carry the mark for me!

Some good points GW, but i just some how don't think thats quite enough for them to just have us down on paper and inside some computer some where as a 'number'. (human beings with a soul...pfttt, who needs it)
They must & have to know what, where, how and why we are 24 hrs 7 days a week 365 days a year...all in the name of 'international security' and our safety well being>>>introducing the microchip.
I feel safer already just knowing that...i'm gett'n goose bumps on my butt.


http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Chip_Implants/index.html

http://www.fplc.edu/risk/vol8/fall/ramesh.htm

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/lrb/pubs/Lb/06Lb13.pdf

http://www.michaeljournal.org/chipID.htm

http://www.verichipcorp.com/

Actually they already have a way of monitoring our movements, in the States, with the camera's that are installed in the public domain. After the U.S.Supreme said citizens are not entitled to a right to privacy in public, that made it open field for even more to be set up around the country and in neighborhoods. One can also be tracked via/ their cell phone. So when the chip implants occur, (some can be implanted in inoculations, they're just that tiny, and you'll never know it. So, you'll actually have the chip with that vaccination, outside of your knowledge it's there), they can literally track you like the vehicle anti-theft mechanism, "Lojak", now. And don't forget the parole and probation ankle straps that we've heard about in the news. More and more jurisdictions are having those affixed to people in the system, even for minor offenses.

I read someone in another thread ask what are we crying about. I'd respond by saying, if you don't know, you clearly haven't been paying attention. Thing is, the level of complacency in this country, we'll all be marked before we all stand and fight. Tragic. Land of the owned, home of the subdued. How does a free country allow that to happen!? One apathetic citizen at a time.

It is only the perennial philosophy part of the bible I agree with. The rest is all fabrication in my eyes. As for being chipped or tagged. Just non-violently resist and risk going to jail for it. If enough people do it and we reach a critical mass then we can shape the government to represent us instead of representing itself.

I'm not completely familiar with the privacy laws in the states but i'm sure your right on target in say'n one of your/our 'basic god given rights' is shot hell...and i'm certain it's going to get worse and they're not much better over here either.

So my one question is...''Then why do they even need and or bother with the 'chip implants' in the first place?''

The chip implants sound to me to be the final phase of this so called 'mark of the beast', the one the good book 'clearly states' to/for us NEVER EVER to accept for obvious reasons.

The only conclusion i can think of @ this stage is the chips will eventually be used on us for some kind of body and mind control on a mass scale. Starting off mildly enough but as all things once they take hold become more and more accepted becomes unstoppable, the norm or what ever.
May not effect our generation too badly i guess, but the next 1, 2 or even3 generations...well...
Sounds a little out there i know...but as you stated about the anti theft tech...it speaks for itself.

Must be wickedly amazing hi tech this satellite tracking & monitoring and getting awesomely better & better everyday i'm sure.


ciao.


http://joshing.org/category/conspiracy/

http://www.surveillanceissues.com/

http://www.gpspursuit.com/

Well I just had another round with school over vaccinations. I don't like vaccinations but I can't enroll my kids in school until they get them.

Those are good points Goddess but I wouldn't agree to slave population bit,

However most people would resist as an adult. If this chip became part of the "vaccination" process that kids need to enter the school system we wouldn't really have a choice down the line.

Yes........yes i will ( only if it is not heavy )

I wouldn't actually say that social security numbers are the mark of the beast. I don't know where you live GW, but, I had to apply for my children's SSN's after they were born. The hospital just gave me the papers, I had to do the rest. I also do not believe in vaccines, and I procrastinated in my children getting theirs. My children are very healthy. When it came time for my daughter to go to school, I had waited so long, that there were many vaccines that she didn't need. I do feel that the government makes it hard for one to not be "marked". If you don't want to get a SSN for your child, then you can't claim them on your taxes. If you don't get your children vaccinated or enrolled into school, you MAY be brought up on child endangerment charges. President Bush openly admitted to tapping phones of anyone that says key words like kill, terrorism,president bush, and several others. He did that illegally, and then he got a court ordered approval after the fact. The government will do what they want, when they want. If you want to go according to your "bible prophecy", it states that it's your free will to take the mark. If the government requires or forces one to get this "mark", it will cause extreme mass hysteria and paranoia, and it will also give you an "out" with your god.

It is possible one day we may be tagged, so to speak... but I think the context of the scriptures is much different, a bit fairy tale to me.

Perhaps it's different in every State. Where I use to live the babies were issued SSN's in hospital. Also mother and child weren't discharged until the baby had a name. Though it could be changed within something like 30 days, after,but still.

And yes, I think a national command to receive implants would stir things up a bit, that's why I think the scare factor is being implemented now in all matters of personal security. Maybe getting the chip will be advertised as a security measure , expedites check-outs, prevents ID theft, something of that nature. ~shrugs~

I would never take the mark. If the bible was correct. I have everything I need.

Plus weath & power only corrupts people.

I went on a Yahoo search for Verichip. (an FDA approved chip implant) . Looks like they'll "sell" this implant, saying in the event you are unconscious and have a medical history, all the EMT's have to do is scan you and you're safe. Verichip ~ Microchip has record potential

Now all they have to do is hit the personal ID theft prevention program, etc... and instead of having to mandate by law, which as someone said, would get people a little uneasy and paranoid, they're going to market it so people will be paying to get tagged! Genius! Exploit the fear and paranoia that already exists and people will demand the chip! Oh man, we're so screwed, if we really are this gullible.

Had to edit for this: VeriChip infant protection system expands distro to Kuwait
Thursday, June 1 2006

Delray Beach, Fla.-based VeriChip Corp., under fire lately by critics of its human-implantable chips, is taking its Hugs® and HALO infant protection system overseas.

Using wearable RFID tags placed on infants and mothers combined with electronic monitoring of exits, VeriChip's systems are designed to help protect newborns from possible abduction and to help ensure mothers are matched with the correct infants during their stay, according to the company, a subsidiary of Applied Digital.

The Hugs® system offers security against infant abductions while requiring little administration and training, the company claims. See more here:

VeriChip Corporation Hugs® and HALO Infant Protection Leadership Expands International Distribution to Kuwait

Just going by some of the reports/articles i've read over the last few years on 'Veri Chip' they are a corporate monster/beast at the fore front of human micro chipping technology that seems hell bent on supplying the total population on a global scale with little or no competition and or anyone to stop them in sight.

Ain't nano tech grand!

http://www.bibleufo.com/chip.htm

http://www.detailshere.com/verichip.htm

http://www.tldm.org/News4/MarkoftheBeast.htm

http://www.verichipcorp.com/

they are not going to be stop. the thing with the mark of the beast is according to the bible you have to willing take the mark. you will be told without it you cannot buy or sell. there will be one man in control of everything and will insist on everyone taking the mark. you will have a choice. if you are tricked into taking it you are not held accountable for recieving it.

*boldened relevant quote*
I don't think it be entirely accurate to make a blanket statement about "if the bible is correct". It largely depends on the point of you that you take when looking at Revelation. The pre-millenialist view takes the literal stance that we will have to make such a choice, but it is not the only view available concerning the End Times. The book of Revelation is a text rich in metaphor and figurative language. It contains images, signs, and symbols. I hesitate to take any interpretation of Revelation as the only available view.

The premise to your thread may need ammending. With more than one viewpoint on the End Times (often conflicting viewpoints), it's nigh on impossible to say in cases like this that if the Bible is correct then certain things will happen a certain way.

That said, assuming the pre-millenialist view is correct (I don't believe it is, but let's assume for a moment that it is), there are two options - 1, reject the mark, suffer temporarily, then gain immortality in heaven, or 2, accept the mark, live reasonably happy, then be condemned for eternity. I'll take door number 1, thanks.

I would hope that, if it happens in my lifetime, I'll still have this ranch. We can go 100% off grid and with the land and stock, and non hybrid food and feed crops be fine the rest of our lives. If the mark is real and in my lifetime I won't accept it. Internet, TV, telephone we could do without and the solar charged battery bank can power the refrigeration and pump on the well. Plenty of trees here for fire wood to heat and cook with. No big deal that we couldn't buy or sell anything. As it is we are only on grid for convenience sake. The property is paid for and I'd fight if any tried to run us off over taxes we couldn't pay because of some mark we refused.

Well, no people wont necessarily starve if they are smart enough to buy a farm before hand. What preceeds this whole marking thing is a world war, so it's not like you wont have warning. Plus anyone who can store food wont starve will they?

This 'mark' is most likely going to be the Verichip which so conveniently will only be put in your right hand or forehead (apparently the best places where it will 'work') which holds all your information including medical history. You'd have to go like AWOL to not get it if it becomes madantory which it probably will, kinda like how all animals MUST be microchipped (in this country anyway), so too will humans.

What country would you be referring to Ashley? (re:Pets must be chipped)

Sydney, Australia Goddess. I don't know about other states but here it's mandatory. I actually got out of getting my two pets (one white Exotic Persian, one teacup Maltese) microchipped though. My uncle knew the vet so he lets up off lol.

The SSN's must be different in every state, and as for the naming of the baby, I have no idea. I had my children's names picked out before I was even pregnant with them.
I do have to agree that yes, a national command for implants would in fact stir things up a bit, I personally heard about this chip for the first time when I was 12. (The church that I was forced to attend had a lot of conspiracy theorists in it.) I think that this could even be something to that effect. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but I do feel that it's not exactly what everyone thinks it is.

Good for you. Like they say, sometimes it's not what you know, but who you know.

So, curious, what's the penalty for non-compliance!? And why did the government mandate in the first place!? (If you know) Thank you for reading further questions about this.
I'm wondering, because it could be a market research to see if people comply under penalty, to the mandatory order for all pets to be implanted. Compliance lends a picture as to the overall compliance level , if it went to another level.

SSN issuance is different in every state. I know my state just hands mom a SSN form, and a b-cert to be filled in and filed when ever they get around to it. It's easiest to do it in the hospital because they'll file the forms for you.

The SSN has to be applied for within the first year, that is if you want your federal dependents tax deduction

Chipping my cat is one thing, chipping me no way. I know what they want to eventually put a chip instead of cards for credit, ATM and ID. For me it has nothing to do with the Bible it has to do with control. This way they can scan a huge sections of population and know where everyone is and what they are doing. I'll pass my freedom is important to me, more so than security. I want to keep the option of being able of dropping out of society without having to dig a chip out of my hand.

Well said...

Q: What's the difference between the christian bible & micro chipping a population for control anyway???...



A: Not too much at all.

If the bible is correct-and its interpretation of freewill is also correct, then those who chose the "marK' cannot be condemned for exercising their thought and therefore their interpretations of what is written within the bible, since they do so to the best of their (freewill) ability as granted by god. To act against that which their thought analysis has deduced is to scoff at the god-given right of freewill in favour of that which is demanded be ignored. And since we know that all of mankind does not think alike, we have to assume that god did not make everyone equal.

This in a nutshell is the absurdity behind the belief in a beast or anti-christ.

the bible says to take the mark will send you to hell. kinda cut and dry

You must be confused.

It is the Book of Revelation found within the New Testament of the consolidated book of Testaments which the Christian apologists dared to usurp and collectively call the bible.

The very same book of revelation which for at least 200 years was considered iffy in its veracity and which gives itself away as having been written well into the first century if not the second ACE. Which also when viewed in the context of historical events and not under the hallucinations of apocalyptic yearning clearly points to the tumultuous times of Roman hedgemony and the rantings of a madman who viewed mother nature's catastrophes--volcanic eruptions and earthquakes as a signal of Romes demise and the return of a god who it was taken promised to do so before the end of that generation. The very same book too which according to the same church responsible for its prominence in the canon has now denounced it as being relevant only to the past. That same book which in consideration of the writings credited to Luke et al, Peter could only have been writing from Rome when he referred to his place of residence as Babylon, yet through the ages the apocalyptic wishers have attributed Babylon to just about every city or country they wished to demonize.

And

That very same book which is a blatant rip-off of the books of Enoch and Daniel.

That's the cut and dry you speak of.

Good post there, GW. I hope this doesn't get too off-topic, but if anyone gets a state marriage license, even if to be married in a church, the marriage is between 3 entities: the husband, the wife and the state. That is why there are regulations on how long two people must be "married" [including 'to' the state] in order to receive certain benefits, such as Vets, Social Security, etc.

This is also why common law marriage is not legalized in many states.

I believe the Essenes had a code they lived by, where the two people lived together for a year, then they had their own private ceremony with no state license, blood test, etc. The Essenes lived totally and completely away from society anyway and had their own rules to live by.

Well I don't know much about the mark of the beast but I know I will never wear a Mark if I can help it.

My grandfather wore one and I don't see how the Veri Chip is any different then his.

Tattooed numbers & bar coding was one thing as bad as it was, it was external though. I't could have been removed easy enough.

But when talking 'internal HI TECH electronic micro chipping' of/in the human body...

What are implications and or long term effects to the body & mind???... it's common knowledge that these chips give off 'electronic wave patterns' similar to a cell phone! It's still debatable what long term use of the cell phone can to us though.

What does the average citizen really know what these marvels of modern hi technology & what they can do to our body & mind???

Who is actually receiving and or controlling the information extracted from these chips???...

And if so, is it possible(from the ones who have our best interests @ heart *cough cough*)to control us in one form or another be it mentally or physically???



The top link below ain't a pretty sight or site if you like!...


http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/pro-freed...o.uk/index.html

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mandrob/html/hum...rochipping.html

http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/CH...AT_FREEDOM.html

GoddessWhispers,

I'm actually not sure what would happen but I'd say you'd get fined

I thought as much. However I also thought perhaps one's pet would be seized, or some such. Thanks for your answer Ashley.