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seanph
Blind Faith
Americans believe in religion -- but know little about it.
Reviewed by Susan Jacoby
Sunday, March 4, 2007; BW03

RELIGIOUS LITERACY

What Every American Needs to Know -- and Doesn't

By Stephen Prothero

HarperSanFrancisco. 296 pp. $24.95


The United States is the most religious nation in the developed world, if religiosity is measured by belief in all things supernatural -- from God and the Virgin Birth to the humbler workings of angels and demons. Americans are also the most religiously ignorant people in the Western world. Fewer than half of us can identify Genesis as the first book of the Bible, and only one third know that Jesus delivered the Sermon on the Mount.

These are just two of the depressing statistics in Stephen Prothero's provocative and timely Religious Literacy. The author of American Jesus (2003) and the chair of the religion department at Boston University, Prothero sees America's religious illiteracy as even more dangerous than general cultural illiteracy "because religion is the most volatile constituent of culture, because religion has been, in addition to one of the greatest forces for good in world history, one of the greatest forces for evil."

In this book, the author combines a lively history of the rise and fall of American religious literacy with a set of proposed remedies based on his hope that "the Fall into religious ignorance is reversible." He also includes a useful multicultural glossary of religious definitions and allusions, in which religious illiterates can find the prodigal son, the promised land, the Quakers and the Koran.

The condition Prothero describes in Religious Literacy is unquestionably one manifestation of a more general decline in the public's cultural and civic knowledge. According to polls conducted by the National Constitution Center, only one third of Americans can name even one of the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment. Is it any more startling that only one third can identify the preacher of the Sermon on the Mount?

A 2005 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that nearly two-thirds of Americans endorse the simultaneous teaching of creationism and evolution in public schools. How can citizens know what creationism means, or make an informed decision about whether it belongs in classrooms, if fewer than half can identify Genesis? No doubt the same proportion of Americans think that Thomas Edison said, "Let there be light."

Approximately 75 percent of adults, according to polls cited by Prothero, mistakenly believe the Bible teaches that "God helps those who help themselves." More than 10 percent think that Noah's wife was Joan of Arc. Only half can name even one of the four Gospels, and -- a finding that will surprise many -- evangelical Christians are only slightly more knowledgeable than their non-evangelical counterparts.

It is less surprising but more dangerous, given America's role in the world, that the public knows even less about Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism and Hinduism than it does about Christianity and Judaism. As Prothero notes, President Bush repeatedly declared that "Islam is peace" in the months after 9/11, while the prophet Muhammad was called a "terrorist" by the Rev. Jerry Falwell. "Who was right?" Prothero asks. "Unfortunately, Americans had no way to judge."

The book's main concern, though, is ignorance about the role of religion in American history. Prothero dates the beginning of the long decline in our religious literacy to the Second Great Awakening of the early 1800s. The fervor of America's periodic cycles of revivalism, rooted in a personal relationship with God rather than in theology handed down by learned clergy, has always had a strong anti-intellectual as well as spiritual component.

Yet the author also sees the Protestant-influenced 19th-century schools as an important factor in maintaining the Puritan heritage of Americans as "people of the book." This may overestimate the religious influence of schools. It is hard to believe that religious literacy, already instilled by families and churches, needed reinforcement from the once ubiquitous McGuffey readers, which rendered the Ten Commandments in such rhymes as, "Thou no gods shall have but me/ Before no idol bend the knee." In 1880, the average American still had only four years of schooling (although the figure was higher in cities than in rural areas). Yet 19th-century autodidacts, including Abraham Lincoln (who had less than a year of formal education) and Robert Green Ingersoll, the orator known as "the Great Agnostic," achieved both religious and secular literacy by reading Shakespeare and the King James Bible without any prompting from teachers.

Prothero views the 20th century's much sharper decline in religious literacy as a product of changes in both religion and society. One ironic factor is an emphasis on a bland tolerance that, while vital to pluralistic American democracy, has also discouraged our awareness of religious distinctions. A politician may intone the phrase "Judeo-Christian" in every speech, but Jews still do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and Christians do. If no one knows what "Messiah" means, though, it hardly matters. But one inexplicable omission from Prothero's analysis is the post-1950 shift from a print to a video culture, with its incalculable erosion of all forms of cultural literacy. Many of the religious allusions and metaphors explained by Prothero in his glossary were once as common as the universal reference points now supplied by television.

The weakest part of this otherwise excellent book is Prothero's proposed remedy: high school and college courses dealing with the historical and cultural role of religion. As the author rightly notes, teaching about religion -- as distinct from preaching religion -- is not prohibited by the First Amendment's ban on "an establishment of religion." But given the failure of so many schools to inculcate the most elementary facts about American history, it is hard to imagine that most teachers would be up to the task of explaining, say, the subtleties of biblical arguments for and against slavery. Furthermore, a curriculum that would meet with the approval of Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Protestant and nonreligious parents would probably be a worthless set of platitudes.

Prothero movingly calls on Americans to reconstruct the "chain of memory" that once made the acquisition of religious knowledge as natural as breathing. But religion is no longer the air we breathe, and it is doubtful that schools can accomplish what parents and congregations cannot or will not in a society where people read fewer and fewer books of any kind -- including the book they consider the word of God. ·

Susan Jacoby is the author of "Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism."

SOURCE
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0102073_pf.html

Sean
EmpressStarXVII
Good article. I particularly liked this part.

QUOTE
More than 10 percent think that Noah's wife was Joan of Arc.


laugh.gif
seanph
That one got me as well! grin2.gif Can you say "D'OH!" grin2.gif
Something Like Laughter
I can't say that I'm surprised. Of the people I've told that I had been going to an Orthodox church, only four have had any idea what I was talking about, and I think one person thought I was Jewish.
JMPD1
Face it, most Americans can tell you more about their favorite sports team, than their own religion.

Then throw in the apathy factor, and most people don't care to learn the facts about something, but repeat what they've heard around the water cooler.
MissMelsWell
Great article SeanPh.

I know when I was in High School they did teach Comparative Religions and the impact of religion on history was always taught. From what I can tell today, that doesn't happen anymore. Now, I DO believe that we shouldn't have prayer or preaching in Public Schools, but I think we have to teach religion and it's impact on society because if we do not, we are raising a generation of idiots.

If you're talking about teaching Creationism and Evolution, I think you have to be really careful. If I remember correctly, Evolution was always taught in Science class.. Big bang yadda yadda... but Creationism was introduced in Comparative Religions. We basically got both, but without the two colliding. I graduated from high school in 1985.

Personally, I think public education in the USA is a failure in more than just religion and science... in fact, I think that's the least of public educations problems.
RougeRat
QUOTE
More than 10 percent think that Noah's wife was Joan of Arc.

I don't think there is an emote on this forum that can even convey the pain that my brain is feeling from this statement and most of this article.

Really, Christians not knowing about their religion is not ground breaking news...Christians not knowing ANYTHING about there religions is just...wow. mellow.gif
sbradj
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Mar 4 2007, 06:14 PM) [snapback]1567878[/snapback]
Face it, most Americans can tell you more about their favorite sports team, than their own religion.

Then throw in the apathy factor, and most people don't care to learn the facts about something, but repeat what they've heard around the water cooler.

well put...amereicans use relgion as a cruch they dont make the effort to look inside the book they claim to live by..but its more than just religion americans are lazy spoiled weak.
good article hopefully it will open some books...
brave_new_world
Faith...must be enforced by reason....when faith becomes blind it dies.

--- Mahatma Gandhi


thumbsup.gif
chaostrom
dontgetit.gif

The more I learn about this kind of American idiocy, the more it occurs to me the governement in "V for Vendetta" could become reality... Just because Christians and Scientists don't agree with each other does not mean religion is incompatible with knowledge... In fact, knowledge is vital to all things including religion.
seanph
QUOTE
I know when I was in High School they did teach Comparative Religions and the impact of religion on history was always taught. From what I can tell today, that doesn't happen anymore. Now, I DO believe that we shouldn't have prayer or preaching in Public Schools, but I think we have to teach religion and it's impact on society because if we do not, we are raising a generation of idiots.

If you're talking about teaching Creationism and Evolution, I think you have to be really careful. If I remember correctly, Evolution was always taught in Science class.. Big bang yadda yadda... but Creationism was introduced in Comparative Religions. We basically got both, but without the two colliding. I graduated from high school in 1985.

Personally, I think public education in the USA is a failure in more than just religion and science... in fact, I think that's the least of public educations problems.


thumbup.gif thumbup.gif thumbup.gif yes.gif yes.gif yes.gif
texasgirlheather
QUOTE(sbradj @ Mar 5 2007, 03:07 AM) [snapback]1568132[/snapback]
well put...amereicans use relgion as a cruch they dont make the effort to look inside the book they claim to live by..but its more than just religion americans are lazy spoiled weak.
good article hopefully it will open some books...

Yes, and sadly, most people who say they are Christians are really just trying on a role or looking for a group to identify with. They are not repented of their natures, they have no understanding of what they say they believe, and unfortunately these are the ones that most people base their opinion of Christianity on.
In that respect, I understand why so many are contemptuous of Christianity. However, once that opinion is formed, 99% of people will stubbornly hang on to it, and refuse to listen to the message of true Christianity. True Christianity is not a culture, a tradition, something you inherit from your parents, or pick up by osmosis from going to church. It is a condition of the heart; it is a living thing.
But I guess I understand why so many continue passing around stories about all those bad Christians they knew; the awe "Can you believe how bad they are?"
What I don't understand is not making an effort to understand what it is truly about, and deciding that because the counterfeits are heinous then the real thing must be also.
And I agree with MissMelsWell about public school. It is a total waste. My kids learn more about how to reason a math problem from me than from their teacher; the teacher just throws a calculator at them. no.gif Not trying to imply that I'm a mathematical genius or anything but I can do the simple stuff in my head and I know HOW to figure out what to do in a word problem. Because my dad taught me, not because public school did. I agree in general here, thinking critically is clearly not a thing that's pushed in public school.
dlv
QUOTE(texasgirlheather @ Mar 6 2007, 10:28 PM) [snapback]1570680[/snapback]
Yes, and sadly, most people who say they are Christians are really just trying on a role or looking for a group to identify with.

Or cashing in on it since it is a political and economical powerhouse.


QUOTE(texasgirlheather @ Mar 6 2007, 10:28 PM) [snapback]1570680[/snapback]
...they (most people who say they are Christians) have no understanding of what they say they believe, and unfortunately these are the ones that most people base their opinion of Christianity on. In that respect, I understand why so many are contemptuous of Christianity.

I'm not one of those contemptuous people since I know several "good" Christians (and my mom was one of them when she was alive). These "good" people are the ones who keep the faith alive in this world. These are the "good" people who transmute the slings and arrows directed to the Christian religion into love, compassion, understanding, caring, true humanity.

I never considered Holiday Christians as Christians, to begin with. Weekend Christians..., that's another story.



QUOTE(texasgirlheather @ Mar 6 2007, 10:28 PM) [snapback]1570680[/snapback]
True Christianity is ... a condition of the heart; it is a living thing.

Surely. It is not just a mind thing. It is concrete and yet, spiritual. My mom was very considerate, giving, loving, highly educated with career, very sophisticated, and 300% Christian (all at same time). She paid her bills on time and I never heard her say one bad word about people and she would raise money for the various church projects. She believed in Jesus Christ until the end of her life. She didn't even ask Jesus to heal her because she didn't believe in testing God's love. And perhaps in return to her devotion, she didn't suffer very long. My mom believed in good deeds, not talky words which only spin in one's already spacey head. She also believed in prayers and went to church every Sunday.
texasgirlheather
She sounds as if she was lovely, dlv. She also sounds like she had true life blossoming inside her. If we shall be known by our fruits, I'm positive that the Word that lived inside her was a blessing to countless many.

Edit: I also agree with the first part of your reply, yes indeed allying oneself with a political and economical major player is sometimes a reason for people to put on the "Christian" hat for a time.
dlv
QUOTE(texasgirlheather @ Mar 7 2007, 12:24 AM) [snapback]1570845[/snapback]
She sounds as if she was lovely, dlv. She also sounds like she had true life blossoming inside her. If we shall be known by our fruits, I'm positive that the Word that lived inside her was a blessing to countless many.

Edit: I also agree with the first part of your reply, yes indeed allying oneself with a political and economical major player is sometimes a reason for people to put on the "Christian" hat for a time.

My mom was very simple in appearance, business like when at work, but very sophisticate mentally since she held a master's degree and a summa cum laude to boot. She actually went to a Christian university. She didn't spend a lot of money on herself probably because of her six children while living in a cosmopolitan neighborhood -- bills, bills, bills. Besides, she was not a glamour type. And she's the kind of lady people would gravitate towards because she had that "goodness" about her with a very open, cute face. She is definitely not intimidating, but she is very respectable -- a person automatically respects her. I guess when one had six children, career, education, god loving, and so on, those qualities are also imprinted on one's face (soul), perhaps???
sbradj
QUOTE(dlv @ Mar 6 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1570887[/snapback]
My mom was very simple in appearance, business like when at work, but very sophisticate mentally since she held a master's degree and a summa cum laude to boot. She actually went to a Christian university. She didn't spend a lot of money on herself probably because of her six children while living in a cosmopolitan neighborhood -- bills, bills, bills. Besides, she was not a glamour type. And she's the kind of lady people would gravitate towards because she had that "goodness" about her with a very open, cute face. She is definitely not intimidating, but she is very respectable -- a person automatically respects her. I guess when one had six children, career, education, god loving, and so on, those qualities are also imprinted on one's face (soul), perhaps???

she sounds like a perfect role model. agree with being able to see the imprint upon ones face..whichever lifestyle one may live it reflexs upon their countance...its great to have one like your mom in this world even now after her passing her relexion still remains like in your post about her ppl can see that and hopefullt want to desire "goodness" and not just a title..thanks for sharing with us.
GoddessWhispers
Well, according to that study this Atheist knows more than most religious people surveyed!? Noah's wife wasn't Joan of Arc. It was Mrs. Noah! tongue.gif

QUOTE
The United States is the most religious nation in the developed world, if religiosity is measured by belief in all things supernatural -- from God and the Virgin Birth to the humbler workings of angels and demons. Americans are also the most religiously ignorant people in the Western world.
When I read someone paid thousands of dollars to a seller on EBay,for a grilled cheese sandwich that had the virgin Mary burned into the bread, I knew that quote was true before I even read this. But when the seller said it was a miracle and no artificial manipulations to the bread had been applied, I knew they were lying. Then I had proof. Less than 3 weeks after the final sale, someone "else?" was selling a grilled cheese maker wherein one could burn the face of the virgin into their bread.

Today I can just see that buyer with the Mary toast in a display case on their mantel, or maybe an altar of some type. And right beside it, laminated for eternity, is the canceled check that proves faith in holy bread precludes ....intelligence. laugh.gif
Something Like Laughter
QUOTE(GoddessWhispers @ Mar 7 2007, 05:31 AM) [snapback]1571482[/snapback]
When I read someone paid thousands of dollars to a seller on EBay,for a grilled cheese sandwich that had the virgin Mary burned into the bread, I knew that quote was true before I even read this. But when the seller said it was a miracle and no artificial manipulations to the bread had been applied, I knew they were lying. Then I had proof. Less than 3 weeks after the final sale, someone "else?" was selling a grilled cheese maker wherein one could burn the face of the virgin into their bread.

Today I can just see that buyer with the Mary toast in a display case on their mantel, or maybe an altar of some type. And right beside it, laminated for eternity, is the canceled check that proves faith in holy bread precludes ....intelligence. laugh.gif

I think some casino bought that.
GoddessWhispers
You're not serious are you!? dontgetit.gif
seanph
Give me a hot bowl of tomato soup ... and let me at that holy sandwich!!!!!!!! Wonder if it will heal my paralysis?! grin2.gif
Shadow_Hill
I wonder how many people attend church every Sunday (best clothes and a big smile) but don't even own a bible let alone read it. And if they do own one the spine isn't cracked. rolleyes.gif

And everyone knows that the Book of Genesis is the life story of Phil Collins. yes.gif
truethat
QUOTE(seanph @ Mar 4 2007, 03:47 PM) [snapback]1567398[/snapback]
Blind Faith
Americans believe in religion -- but know little about it.
Reviewed by Susan Jacoby
Sunday, March 4, 2007; BW03

RELIGIOUS LITERACY

What Every American Needs to Know -- and Doesn't

By Stephen Prothero

HarperSanFrancisco. 296 pp. $24.95



Approximately 75 percent of adults, according to polls cited by Prothero, mistakenly believe the Bible teaches that "God helps those who help themselves." More than 10 percent think that Noah's wife was Joan of Arc. Only half can name even one of the four Gospels, and -- a finding that will surprise many -- evangelical Christians are only slightly more knowledgeable than their non-evangelical counterparts.
sm."

SOURCE
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0102073_pf.html

Sean



This is a really good example of how people just suck up "statistics" without even questioning them. It bugs me.

First off 75% of adults makes it sound like that they polled everyone. Hmmm. Remember the old toothpaste commercial? 4 out of 5 dentists say they prefer Crest! How many dentists did they ask? 5 and 4 of them worked for Proctor and Gamble.

Don't simply swallow what you are told. 75 percent of how many people? How many people were in the study, where did they perform the study? And who were the people? and what was the question that they asked.

Ex.

God helps those who help themselves is from what book?

A. Great Expectations
B. The Bible
C. The Qu'ran
D. None of the above


If that is how the question was worded most people would chose B. The Bible because they are trying to "get the answer right" its not any sort of an indication of their familiarity with the Bible.

In addition you have this little tidbit 10% of the people thought Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. What IDIOTS man those Christians are so stupid. Um oh wait.....actually that means 90% of those tested did NOT think that Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. Sounds a little different that way.

Only HALF can name one of the four gospels sounds different than saying Half of the people KNEW one of the four gospels?

And half of how many? How many people? If you took 10000 people that is different than asking 2 is it not?

People have manipulated statistics for years. All you have to do is stick a percentage sign instead of where the numbers should be.

So we asked 10 people if Joan of Arc was Noah's wife and ONE idiot said yes. What a moron.

Wait lets write that as 10 percent. Sounds better eh?


I don't doubt necessarily that some of the findings are well researched and I doubt they did it to this extreme but it always makes me wonder why people are so willing to not question a statistic that is presented in percentages.
recon_soldier
I know certain people that will follow there faith so blindly that they will walk into the Gas chambers of Eugenics if they thought it was there Gods will.

Its amazing what some people believe in, without knowing the first thing about it.

Believe what your told..seems to be alot of that going on nowadays..

Help those that help themselves.
Shadow_Hill
QUOTE(truethat @ Mar 7 2007, 03:31 PM) [snapback]1571701[/snapback]
Don't simply swallow what you are told. 75 percent of how many people? How many people were in the study, where did they perform the study? And who were the people? and what was the question that they asked.


I know this particular one is a US study, but here in the UK I have never been asked to answer a question in any study, and I don't know anyone else who has. Whoever these people are, they're never anyone you know.

I was reading something in a local paper some time back, and the conclusion was that 70 or 80 percent of locals had been in favour of some monument or other being built or saved, something like that. I'm a local, hubbie's a local, my family are local... nobody asked us. Let's say you want the answer to a question to be "yes"... you go look for all the people who are likely to say "yes" and you ask them... and there's your 80 percent of people wanting a giant carrot to be built in the middle of the local shopping centre. rolleyes.gif
seanph
Prothero is chair of the religion department at Boston University and is not going to put his reputation on the line without in-depth research ...

... These are just two of the depressing statistics in Stephen Prothero's provocative and timely Religious Literacy. The author of American Jesus (2003) and the chair of the religion department at Boston University, Prothero sees America's religious illiteracy as even more dangerous than general cultural illiteracy "because religion is the most volatile constituent of culture, because religion has been, in addition to one of the greatest forces for good in world history, one of the greatest forces for evil."

In this book, the author combines a lively history of the rise and fall of American religious literacy with a set of proposed remedies based on his hope that "the Fall into religious ignorance is reversible." He also includes a useful multicultural glossary of religious definitions and allusions, in which religious illiterates can find the prodigal son, the promised land, the Quakers and the Koran.

The condition Prothero describes in Religious Literacy is unquestionably one manifestation of a more general decline in the public's cultural and civic knowledge. According to polls conducted by the National Constitution Center, only one third of Americans can name even one of the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment. Is it any more startling that only one third can identify the preacher of the Sermon on the Mount?

A 2005 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that nearly two-thirds of Americans endorse the simultaneous teaching of creationism and evolution in public schools. How can citizens know what creationism means, or make an informed decision about whether it belongs in classrooms, if fewer than half can identify Genesis? No doubt the same proportion of Americans think that Thomas Edison said, "Let there be light."...


Kindly,

Sean
truethat
[quote name='seanph' date='Mar 7 2007, 04:07 PM' post='1571739']
Prothero is chair of the religion department at Boston University and is not going to put his reputation on the line without in-depth research ...

[i]


Taking that on BLIND FAITH are you? How ironic. The fact that he is coming out of a University makes me especially skeptical.

People find what they want to find. You should always question the statistics. I agree Shadow Hill because I am often a person who is mentioned statistically and have never ever participated in a study. Nor has anyone I have ever met. I bet if we polled this web site that not one person on it or a very low number would have participated in a study.

It is very easy to manipulate numbers to make them look like what you want. Ex. 10% of the christians polled thought Joan of Arc was Noah's husband. As I said this means 90% did not ---yet it is still presented as evidence of Christian ignorance and you just lapped it up.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1091350
Something Like Laughter
QUOTE(GoddessWhispers @ Mar 7 2007, 08:15 AM) [snapback]1571626[/snapback]
You're not serious are you!? dontgetit.gif

I am. An online venture named goldencasino.com
It has several interesting eBay purchases. The wikipedia article on it has some listed.

QUOTE(seanph @ Mar 7 2007, 08:29 AM) [snapback]1571638[/snapback]
Give me a hot bowl of tomato soup ... and let me at that holy sandwich!!!!!!!! Wonder if it will heal my paralysis?! grin2.gif
mmm...
Ten year old vegetable oil "cheese" product.
GoddessWhispers
QUOTE(Something Like Laughter @ Mar 7 2007, 11:56 PM) [snapback]1571923[/snapback]
I am. An online venture named goldencasino.com
It has several interesting eBay purchases. The wikipedia article on it has some listed.
GoldenPalace.com. $28,000!
I'm sure it helped if the seller said that bit about bringing it with her to a casino and it helping her win large money, before she sold it 10 years after it was first made. No mold, it's a miracle. rofl.gif Amazing! Why don't I ever meet people with pareidolia and that want to cut me a check for funky bread visuals!? Can't I see it now.

"How'd you ever afford this 07 Lamborghini?"

" Wheat bread, a crucifix and 1 steam iron, that's how! " tongue.gif Varoom!
seanph
QUOTE
Taking that on BLIND FAITH are you? How ironic. The fact that he is coming out of a University makes me especially skeptical


The fact that a professor, whose career is on the line, makes me especially convinced the information is true. And I also speak from experience. First, have I received a poll call? Two. One from Elizabeth Dole and the other on gay rights (from a Christian organization against it). The latter royally pissed me off because my brother is gay. They hung up on me when I informed them of my position. Second, I have debated literally hundreds of Christians over the years. It has been my experience that the vast majority do not know even the basics regarding scripture (I won't mention the other percentage that kicked my hind-end up one side and down the other wink2.gif ). In fact, just a couple of weeks ago, my neighbor's nephew--a Catholic of thirty years, with a Master in Theology--was asked how long Jesus hung upon the cross? His answer? Twenty-four hours! D'oh!

Sean
texasgirlheather
QUOTE(Shadow_Hill @ Mar 7 2007, 02:40 PM) [snapback]1571644[/snapback]
And everyone knows that the Book of Genesis is the life story of Phil Collins. yes.gif



Ha haha. That was a good one!
IamsSon
I think true has brought up a very important point. How trustworthy is a poll? I have been disqualified from 4 phone polls in the last year, because when I was asked if I was a Mexican-American I answered that I was an American of Mexican descent. It's basically the same thing, but I know it clearly implies that I see myself as an American, and these people were looking for someone who was going to let them say that 98% of Mexican Americans are opposed to more stringent border controls.
truethat
Sorry sean but universities are not exempt from bending the rules to make their studies show what they want it to.

Were it a fair study you would have seen the following:

The number of people who participated in the study, who paid for it and an example of the question.


For example:


In a recent study conducted by Dow Chemical, 100 women ages 30-55 were asked if they believed in global warming. When asked.....etc

When you see the statistic presented in percentages its a major red flag. I am in college at the moment and it has been drilled into our heads to question all statistics.

In addition by your own admission when someone called about gay rights and found you were sympathetic, they HUNG UP ON YOU so obviously they were biased as were the people who called IamsSon.
Something Like Laughter
You never see the information gathering methods in newspapers.
Real pity, but that's life.
seanph
QUOTE
Sorry sean but universities are not exempt from bending the rules to make their studies show what they want it to.

Were it a fair study you would have seen the following:

The number of people who participated in the study, who paid for it and an example of the question.


For example:


In a recent study conducted by Dow Chemical, 100 women ages 30-55 were asked if they believed in global warming. When asked.....etc

When you see the statistic presented in percentages its a major red flag. I am in college at the moment and it has been drilled into our heads to question all statistics.


Then shouldn't we do away with statistics as a discipline, for it is wholly unreliable? Also, I would think in a major poll that is to be published in this manner and by a university, all care is taken to be as accurate as possible--every statistical criteria followed to the "T" in order to provide highly accurate data? And I must wonder if such material must meet the demands of peer review? I would think, yes.

Simply out of curiosity ... If you have such a low opinion of academia, girl, why are you in college?

QUOTE
In addition by your own admission when someone called about gay rights and found you were sympathetic, they HUNG UP ON YOU so obviously they were biased as were the people who called IamsSon.


They hung up because I went on an expletive laden tirade that ended with "Shall I offer up my brother for stoning?!" and "You can boink your loving god!" They touched a sore spot with me regarding that particular topic. original.gif

Kindly,

Sean
truethat
I don't have a low opinion of academia. I have a low opinion of statistics.

Your conclusion on this, is a good example of a false correlation and something that also is part of the problem with statistics.

grin2.gif
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