Why is it important to belong to a church/religion? Why aren't we satisfied with exploring our own spirituality, or lack of it, all by ourselves. My faith is between me and my God, and I don't feel the need to join a group to explore it. But I'm interested in why others do need to do this.

Where's the attraction? What do church members get from spending time with people who have the same beliefs?

I asked a friend who was a member of a close knit Christian comminuty why he had to go to meetings. He said that without the support of others he feared he would stray from the path. I've since heard other Christian friends say the same, and a pastor state the same reason to encourage his congregation to meet regularly.

Surely believers don't really fear that they will stop believing or do foul deeds unless they check in with fellow believers regularly?

Besides the bible encourging that they mingle with other like minded christians I am sure it's that some feel that they would fall away like you said. Also, in some congregations, the church is like a family. You meet people there that you can depend on no matter what. I am happy to say that where I used to go was like that atleast.

Edit: As for people wanting to belong to their own religion, while some do search their own spirituality, I think it;s the fact that too many people use religion as a crutch. They need a place to fit in, they need to be told how to live their lives, they need to conform to the norm.

Many people feel that they need the psychological strength that comes from being part of a tribe this may stem back as far as early man when sharing the same needs and locations produced an united identity. I truly believe that alot of organized religions appeal is our deep seated need for identity. And yes the individual finds strengh in numbers.

I have great admiration for young people, like yourself, who have the courage to stick their neck out and ask the important questions. I wish I had done so when I was younger. Going into middle age, I am now starting to deconstruct the religious myths and beliefs which have ossified my soul since childhood. Belonging to a church and reciting loads of prayers never made anyone more spiritual. I suspect a lot of people stick with a particular church because they are afraid - afraid of going to hell if they disobey that church's rules and precepts. It is these very rules and precepts which create divisions and strife amongst people. To become more spiritual, all you have to do is help others and not make a public show of it; and try to have some fun doing it. Then, be content that when you die, you will go to a better place where you continue helping others. That's all. No hell, no need for guilt, fear or punishment. That is all part of the myth. Get rid of it now while you can and start enjoying life. I'm just starting to, and it's great!

I just think it comes down to humans being social animals. Why do guys have more fun getting together with their buddies to root for the football team? Why do ladies go shopping with their girlfriends? Why do people join gangs?

There is a stigma attached to being alone. I think people are conditioned to not appreciate their own company.

I agree people get together out of natural gregariousness, but in the churches I attended over the years, I never saw anyone having any fun! I think a lof people go to church robotically, because they have always done so since childhood, and their parents before them. I don't think they indulge in much reasoning or analysis. They go through the motions and glibly repeat the words. Apart from that, for them it is more a matter of seeing who else is there, what they are wearing etc., and basically not having anything better to do. The point I am making is that spirituality has got nothing to do with going to church and obeying and believing in ridiculous tenets and dogma, in punishing yourself and making life a misery for yourself and those close to you. Rather, it consists in opening up your heart and helping others where you can and in genuinely forgiving others who may have hurt you. It may take a second to learn this lesson, or it may take a million years, but in the end (and to quote the Korgis song), "Everbody's gotta learn sometime"!

From an Esoteric point of view, Occultists tend to be in Groups whereas Mystics work alone, there is a place in this world for both.

I agree with you Shadow, from my own point of view I don't need any "middleman" in the form of a vicar or anyone else, sometimes however, it isn't as easy to convince those people who are so sure that unless you gather in groups with likeminded people you are not "saved".

It is their thing. They believe in something. That something is their guide of what is morally right and wrong.

the bible says to gather yourselves together. you get strenght from each other. you pray for the omportant things that are happening in the world and each other. you have dinners, things for the youth. you are suppose to visit the sick. people in the jails, hospitals etc. tho alot of churches dont do it, they are suppose to. now on the other hand the bible also says that where 2 or more are gathered there i shall be also.

The answer to this question is either A. god made us in his own image and he is a sociable person (quite a likely personality trait given the crowd of hangers on he has attracted) or
B. It is an ativistic urge bred into us by millenia of evolution, that we need to work in groups for survival. This is particularly true of hunters and gatherers, but also applies to technological societies. Thus the need for; "fitting in", "consensus" and "social cohesion"

I noticed this too. The church groups I've been to where the people were all friends and met regularly (and were quite involved in each other's lives... and sadly personal business too) were quite hostile from my perspective. The members competed to have all the answers, and judged those who didn't attend as often as the group thought they should. In order to be part of that group you had to accept everything the pastor said, and the members were keen to do just that, so my friend lied when he stated any belief that Adam and Eve were the beginning of us all, because he didn't believe that. Differing interpretations of the bible weren't tolerated. The idea that such a group would offer a support structure, a place of shelter in hard times, of encouragement, and of guidance when your faith falters... it should work, but I haven't seen it do that, which is sad.

It's interesting, because a church is not just a building, it's the people who gather together, and yet the only place I've ever been where I saw emotion expressed rather than religious knowledge and intolerance was during a mass at Notre Dame in Paris. It's a huge building, not at all informal... the people attended separately, sat apart, appeared unaware of anyone around them (despite the tourists who were photographing the priest ), experienced something quite evidently spiritual, and then left alone.

Good word, ossified... good post in general - glad you are breaking free, and finding your true path! And agree, youngsters, from an early age, should be encouraged to question!!! EVERYTHING!!!!

As to the question I would agree that its to find commons trength or interest. Something that's a bit alien to me as I am a loner and do not like the society of others, in general.

I could not agree more. There is much to enjoy about life. Sometimes it takes a little humor to get past a challenge or two however that can be part of the fun.

But you are in a group. You created this forum, right??? Everytime you speak, write about your belief system to someone, you are part of the world, you are part of a group. Your method is no different than a "larger" group. A group is a group, no matter how much paint you drench it.



There is "safety in numbers." "It's more fun to compute." F.S.U. (Friends Stand United).

Whatever works for the individual. No one path, technique, etc. is better than the next because God or whoever or whatever will be the judge of that in the end..., as if He or She even cares about judging. Most people judge themselves harshly, as it is. True, every action has consequence, and unknown territories excite fear on others, while pleasurable to some (for awhile at least). "Pick your poison," so friends say to me at four in the morning as the Klash drumtracks bang away on my eardrums. In the end, things are where they should be at a particular space and time. Nothing is a mistake. How one reacts to a situation is another matter; however, I have my prayers to ask God or Force, Energy, and so on to not get me in a situation which I'm not ready to handle. And so far, the Universe has been kind to me. And oh, I always have a choice to take a long nap when things get out of hand for awhile.

The thing is: People will eventually get bored of their usual patterns. I guarantee. There is no need to tell others "what's down."

Just a thought.

Some paths in life are individual events, some are team sports. Christianity is a team sport. Christians believe that God is a God who wants us to have relationships, not just with him, but with those people around us. And so Christians gather regularly to meet up with each other, to encourage each other, to build each other up in Christ. Belonging to a church community provides us with that communion we each share with each other. Sharing struggles, sharing advice. You can learn and grow by being with those who are a more mature Christians than you are, and you can help those who are less-mature to learn and grow.

To be a Chrisitan is not an easy life. It takes a lifetime to do, and even then you'll never master it all. It's not a passive belief system where the adherent doesn't need to do anything. It's an active belief, which requires continual growth and change and hardships. Having a community around you can help you to perservere when times are tough

There are a multitude of reasons for joining a church community, and I've only discussed a couple of those reasons here.

but isn't like mindedness grouping a way of not growing.? since you all agree there is no need for change so no need to grow.

example - if you all thought homosexuality was a choice you don't have to view the science that points otherwise. you can stay in like minded hate. like minded saying it's impossible for man to be on the moon. thank god for the unconventional different thinker - that is what makes us move forward both physically and spiritually.

nothing wrong with wanting to celebrate who you are with your mates. but when we keep ourselves cloistered that in itself can be and has proven harmful when we look at religion as the 'we're right and your wrong' mode of thinking that each has.

<-----------a runaway stray from the christian herd LOL..................

"Why do we need to do it in groups?"

I'm horribly immature so... hahahahahahhahahaha

I didn;t say it was always a good thing. You can go to a good congregation and meet people who will always be there for you, but being with like minded people, as you said, can control the way you think. Some people don't mind this, and like I said, they need others to tell them how to live. It can be a good or bad thing. You can be part of a congregation and still have your own seperate beliefs though.

I too do not for the life of me understand this. I am a Messianic Jew but I don't go to synagogue, and if I ever do it's alone. I also like going to Greek Orthodox and Catholic churches ALONE when it's empty (I was baptized Greek Orthodox, made communion and confirmation as a Catholic and my family went to Judaism when I was 13, yes I am part Jewish by blood among other things). The only time I go when other people are really there is at Easter or sometimes at Christmas. I go there to pray, not to have a social meeting, and I find such quite disgusting. I walk outside and they're selling icons and statues even FOOD at the Greek Orthodox churches. This is exactly what Jesus told them NOT to do. It's not a marketplace, nor is it a social gathering. I've also witnessed these 'born again christian meetings' through a friend. They go, they eat dinner, they gossip, they read a few Bible verses and start 'driving satan out of you' like they're a priest or Jesus himself. I've never seen such heresy in my life.

Everything I know from the Bible/Torah/extra canonical books I learnt by myself. If people REALLY wish to learn the good books they don't need a heard of people to sit there with.

True, I've encountered a number of "religious" people with this kind of mentality, but thank God, not all. In my city, there's a mixed (religion and gender) church, and a gay church as well. It's not a big city, but a relatively opulent one, depending on where you are. I haven't heard of gay bashing for years, but on the other hand, the gay parade was shut down, not because of negative vibes from most locals, but because the parade got too tired and the gays themselves stopped going completely. Basically, my hood is too blase about the gay thing, and the gays themselves are too cool for another "gay" event. My gay neighbors and friends are certainly among the cool ones.

"Not another dragarama." "Not another bletz on wheels."

"Religious" friends of mine - in their mid-40's, relatively sophisticated, have college education, happy about their station in life and home life, and so on - are more flexible about other religions and lifestyles, including "manage," the french kind, even if they don't indulge in it -- they do not condemn.

As the great Ron Jeremy said: "Three is never a crowd".

*giggle!*

...

Ok, I'm going...

I am a Catholic. I love learning about my faith and listen to Catholic radio EWTN.
Due to health circumstances I am not obliged to go to Mass.
I personally don't enjoy being with other people.
Via my work I am with people and have to do tons of communicating in an upbeat lively manner, love my job but when off time comes I don't want to socialize.
I pray the Rosary, read the Bible, just did a year of Adult Catechism one on one with a retired Univ. Jusuit Prof. and alot of study time. LOL
I never have in my 50 yrs been a group person but can turn the mode when need to.
I enjoy walks alone, tried the group hike thingy.
I eat at resteraunts alone.
However I can have a great conversation with people as I go along.
Just never felt comfortable being in the "group" mode week after week.
Use to go to Daily Mass because only a few showed up and we were not there to chit chat. Very quiet and personal.

More power to those who love getting involved with every church function ect..did that when my now adult son was a kid as a parent.
Kept some relationships but cordial not a regular social club.

It takes all kinds to keep our communities strong and active.
We all have gifts.

Once in awhile someone will push and push to get me to "join" the social aspect. I just tell them straight forward that it is very uncomfortable and with my responsibilities to family when I get time alone I enjoy quiet time and taking in all that is around me our in the wilderness. Not a city gal. LOL

I myself think its just the human way. When we celebrate something, be it a birthday.. christmas... thanksgiving... we all get together, because togetherness promotes the concept of love. If religion did not promote this togetherness, and let people just do it themselves.... the feeling of love and belonging that people get for belonging would subside... and that would be the end of it....

Don't be in such a hurry......I would be very surprised if anyone here knew who Ron Jeremy is apart from you and me........

And maybe Moondoggy.....

How do we answer without the quote?

Ok I lurked around and I liked your posts because I had good feeling and now just read your above quote after my first post.

I am Roman Catholic and have been to other Churches still do go for family events to see Plays/Presentations.

But I am with you. Alone is a good thing.

No distractions and can soak up whats around me and once in awhile God gives me a nano second glimpse into his reality.

When working so many distractions due to having to be up and interacting.....need the respite from society to breathe and enjoy what his divine nature has to offer.

Can get all the Human nature I want just turn on Nancy Grace. LOL

We turn tv off for Lent every year and it is great but after 40 plus days I am ready to see what movies are out there for entertainment.

Ron Jeremy is well known.
Did you know he was in the crowd scene in Ghostbusters when the huge Marshmellow Guy was coming down the blvd.?

He is a porno Icon and he has some regret because he really wanted to make it in mainstream Hollywood films. I think if he had the talent he would have been able to cross over.

Now if he shows up on TBN with a conversion story jaws will drop.

With more Christian based Movie production companies emerging it may be his only chance of going mainstream. LOL

Hi Ashley,

I'm christened Greek Orthodox as well and being a Greek, I fully understand where you're coming from.....What you have to understand though is, what you call disgusting is actually Greeks expressing their cultural heritage, as well as celebrating their religion......

When Greeks migrated out of their Motherland to other countries around the globe, they were forced to seek out each other and together adjust to life in a foreign country. Also they were determined to uphold the Greek traditions and festivities.....For Greeks to get together and share food and drink is as much a cultural affirmation as just a social gathering.....

Well, where did you pop up (pardon the pun) from ? Our Ron had talent alright, just not what Universal Studios were looking for......

A bit too short and hairy for their liking I'm afraid....