What if All religous beliefs were found to be false? Or what if your religous belief was disproven by another religion? Would you still hold your faith in such beliefs?

For example if Christian faith was disproven by lets say Muslim faith. Would you turn Muslim or would you go to the grave still believing that your God was real? Or even after the grave what if you come to your judgement but it is by another god? Would you renouce your faith in the god you believe in or would you go to that religion's hell still believing in your religious faith?

Another example would be the mystery of religous faith. What if science or any other research accualy proved God or any other higher power to non existent. Would you still keep your faith or would you change and become athiest?

It would depend on which religion ended up being true. There are some mainstream Christians that hold beliefs and attitudes that, if true, I would rather enter hell than worship the God they do.

That is the question I am putting out. If the exact opposite or anyother religion was true one aside from yours. Also If your religious faith was with hard factual evidence proven false. Would you still keep your faith?

I think I got your answers on the first question what about the second.

If my beliefs were shown to be false, I would not cling to them. That would be stupid. Although, some "evidences" do necessitate thorough research before accepting wholly. I assume in your question there is no doubt as to the false nature of said beliefs and the truth in the evidence.

Why would someone hold on to beliefs that were proven false? That would be insanity.

IamsSon from what I have read from your posts you believe heavly in Christ. When Revelation happens if it happens in our life time, The false prophet will disprove the existence of God with the existence of himself and many will follow him to damnation. So what you are saying is that you would lose your faith if it was disproven on this earth by someone or something? Or were you refering to diying and seeing another god controling the world?

If my religion was proven wrong by another religion I'd be grateful for the new knowledge and continue my quest for truth. However non-existence can never be proven because non-existence is the existence of no existence. If it truly didnt exist it wouldnt exist in concept for us to deny.

Here is a good one for you, What if a major figure head in a certain religion like Christ for example came down without you knowing it was Christ and said that you are wrong and will not reach heaven unless you do exactly what I say. Would you defend your beliefs that I know you have or would you blindly jump in to this holy man's convent and renounce everything you have learned from other religions. Would you.

The other question would be if through some crazy experiment or study it was proven that there is no God. Would you believe it or would you strive to prove your theories on spirituality. Basicly fight or go with the flow.

Faith can never be disproven as long as there is people to believe in it. That's why so many of the old faiths are comming back in force.. People are again believing in them, reguardless of how many centuries others tried to disprove them. X)

I'd hold faith in eternity and know that eternity will never forsake me forever to the sufferings of time.



Well if it was proven that there was no God or anything ethical about the universe I'd see no reason to behave accordingly. I'd simply do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted beause what difference would it make?

I could be kind and moral but they would be means to what ends? There would be no ends and therefore no purpose and therefore wouldnt see a point in being kind.

Loving one another for the sake of love is the same as loving one another for the sake of God because God is love.

On the same note I wouldnt even care for survival because what difference would it make whether you died at birth or died at the age of one hundred?

My "religion" would hold "true" regardless.

Great response. Glad to see that you have such a strong value in your religious faith. Read my post replying to IamSon and you will see one of the points I was trying to get across when it comes to believing in your religious faith.

If Jesus Christ were proven to me beyond a doubt to be not what I believed Him to be, I would do what I had to do. If He were disproven by a religion (although I am not religious, I am reformed of the heart and belong wholly to Jesus Christ the King), and I am assuming in this question that the religion in question actually PROVED beyond a doubt that I was wrong about what I believed, I would pursue whatever I had to pursue to find the true God. If it were proven that there were no God at all, I would just do my best until I died. What else could one do? Enjoy things that are enjoyable, and lose my joy when things are not enjoyable, because the long-term joy that I have now is a result of the loving companionship and guidance that I enjoy with my God, my knowledge of my life to come, and my reunion with my King in the future.

This is my best guess as to what I would do. I have sat and thought about this for a little bit, and tried to answer your question as honestly as I can.

I qualify this answer by saying that I believe it impossible to prove that my God does not exist, I am for the sake of communication and argument answering a hypothetical question.

God my Father sits on the throne and is the King and the Glory for ever.

I like it. But as I was saying to Revr and IamsSon When the Anti-Christ or False Prophet comes at Revelation he will disprove God's existence and all others gods existience with his own. Will you follow him or will you be one of the few to denounce him and praise Christ?

You know, that's a really good question. I have grown tremendously in conviction and intimate personal familiarity with Him in the last nine years. A moment of pain, or even a day of torture, would be the highest honor to give Him. I am going to Him anyway; and the short-lived sensations of pain brought about by a difficult physical death I know will be forgotten in the new Kingdom. The Bible says that tears will be wiped from the eyes of all who are with Him, and I know that that is true. The knowledge of His love is in me from the moment I wake up until I pass out at night. I guess you could say I am in love with Him, true pleasure is reward of serving Him. He does not lead me wrong as a man of this world might, He loves me true and I am a spoiled and favored child of His. I am wrapped in His love and blessed beyond imagination. Even my moments of temper are extremely short-lived (and I always laugh afterward) and it is so rare between times of sadness or frustration that I hardly even know what those things are anymore. I think most people who had lived my life would have nutted up and completely lost it by now, but I just laugh at things. I am waiting to be with my family in the kingdom and I know I don't deserve it, it is really impossible to be truly sad about anything. His voice is in my ear all day long, He is standing beside me faithfully when other women are betrayed by the ones they love, and He has taught me through an incredibly painful process that began nine years ago, that I have nothing to fear. Literally nothing.

I say all of this not because I am sentimental, I truly am not an emotional type of person, I am calm and matter of fact and sensible about things. I tell you all this to indicate to you that I know my Father and my Father knows me; no one else could imitate Him and fool me. In the world we live in today, the fallen angels are frantically trying! I know them, and am not fooled by them, their tricks are old news to those that are bought with the blood of Jesus Christ. Once your eyes have been opened, you KNOW in a way that can not be conveyed effectively to others.

The Antichrist will disprove God's existence in the minds of those who are already looking for an excuse, any excuse, to be fooled. That is a condition of the heart. That is rebelliousness that says to oneself, "I am all that exists, I am the highest authority and I do not need to make myself right to anyone, for I am my own truth." If you have accepted the unmistakeable knowledge of my Father's truth in your heart, you will not be fooled.

This was absoultly beutiful! Never have I heard someone with so much faith! If it happens in our time I will be glad to know you will be one of those among the few who will stand up and die for the Lord. Bless you.

I believe his first coming was self evident. Even a secular Jewish Historian speaks of him. The second will be no different. The false prophet will obviously come up through the UN or some other organization to allegedly bring peace. He makes middle east peace deals etc... He gets such acclaim that he sets himself to be deity. The second coming of Christ has clear understanding. He returns to the mount of olives just before Jerusalem is about to be seized militarily. His return will be an awesome event and will be followed with ten thousands of his saints. There can be no foolery for those who take the scriptures as they are.

what if what you believe was based on older religions?

WHO WAS THIS ?

- God was his father
- He was born in a cowshed.
- A human woman, a virgin, was his mother.
- His birth was prophesized by a star in the heavens.
- At a marriage ceremony, he performed the miracle of converting water into wine.
- He was powerless to perform miracles in his hometown.
- His followers were born-again through baptism in water.
- He rode triumphantly into a city on a donkey. Tradition records that the inhabitants waved palm leaves.
- He had 12 disciples.
- He was accused of licentious behavior.
- He was killed near the time of the Vernal Equinox, about MAR-21.
- He died "as a sacrifice for the sins of the world."
- He was hung on a tree, stake, or cross.
- After death, he descended into hell.
- On the third day after his death, he returned to life.
- The cave where he was laid was visited by three of his female followers.
- He later ascended to heaven.
- His titles: God made flesh. Savior of the world Son of God.
- He is "God made man," and equal to the Father.
- He will return in the last days.
- He will judge the human race at that time.
- Humans are separated from God by original sin. The godman's sacrificial death reunites the believer with God and atones for the original sin.

Did you guess Jesus Christ? Well, again you'd be wrong - HE WAS... OSIRIS-DIONYSUS, an Egyptian God that existed thousands of years before Christ allegedly came around

or

WHO IS THIS ?

-was born on December 25th.
-was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
-had 12 companions or disciples.
-performed miracles.
-was buried in a tomb.
-after three days he rose again.
-his resurrection was celebrated every year.
-was called "the Good Shepherd."
-was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
-was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
-his sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day,".
-he had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
-his religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

If you guessed Jesus Christ, well, you'd be wrong again , HE WAS... MITHRA, a Roman-Persian God who existed hundreds of years before Christ.

("He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." This inscription to Mithras, which parallels John 6:53-54, is inside the Vatican in the tomb of Saint Peter.)

face reality people - Jesus was based on religions that came hundreds of years before his story made paper. and the name Jesus was pretty popular then - plenty of teachers performing 'miracles' too. just like jesus supposedly did.

Frankly, I can't even fathom my faith being disproven. It's simply not possible in my mind. But, if it were, I guess I have to agree with IamsSon, if it were I'd have to give it up and write it off as a flight of a fancy (and Oh My! aren't I a creative mind for believing!). Beliving in something that has been proven false beyond a shadow of a doubt IS instanity.

But at this point, I feel as though I have a personal relationship with God, and do God's work and wait on the light that is within us all. I'm willing to have people challenge my beliefs, if I didn't I wouldn't be here on UM. Make no mistake, I don't want people to challenge me because I have doubts, I like people to challenge me because I think learning is an essential part of living.

I dont think there is any one true religion. But for the sake of arguement, I would stick true to my faith no matter what other religion finds fault at. It is my faith that makes me who I am spiritually, and I don't think anything can break that.

I'd feel pretty silly clinging to a false belief, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I am going to run with open arms to the "truth". Rebel as I am, I'd probably end up going to hell....then take over

Oh I get it... you want a book to explain why our faith would not be shaken if someone tries to disprove it.

Honestly, no one can disprove my faith.. nor my belief that all gods are made by man to explain things that cannot be. To represent aspects of ourselves and to shape the beauty and the ugliness that humans are capable of.

As my faith is that of healing, and science have used many things that my own had done in the millenias past. Taken from nature to use as cures. Though they may have dropped asking the gods for help with the healing that they do, I as a shaman continue to do so.

No matter how many times a certain faith spread and tried to erase other religions from other cultures that they came into contact with... It is still here. THere are still shamans in the world. There are still druids in the world.. and for as long as humanity lives, there will always be Pagans.

I always thought about that and like when others bring it up. Wonder if it really is true that the new testament was made from pagan beliefs to bring them over to God. Hmmmm

Great! You have a wonderful truth to your faith too. This is an answer I was looking for too. That balls to the walls attitude that basicly states that you can string me up and beat me but I'll never bow down! But then again I would have expected this from some one at your level. Thats why I ask you questions about pagan beliefs and feel you know what your talking about thanks!

Absolutely not!!! I would steadfastly refuse to abandon my beliefs.

According to mainstream religous doctrines there is no way to prove or disapprove a religion.

eg according to religions that originate from Abraham ie abrahamic religions such as judaism christianity and islam God will only reveal Himself in the end.
according to hinduism life after death is cyclical man may become an insect and insect may become man again if you were man and you die you will be an insect so there is no way to know

In the end religions deal with spirituality and issues such as end of life and unless scientific knowledge increases there is no way to approve or disapprove a religion at this time

Even if there was outstanding proof? Or even if another god stood before you like lets say Zues and he said that I am the real deal and what you believe isnt. You still would hold your faith?

I would cry: "Away you imposter!"

Impressive. You seem to have a great strength in your faith as well. But here is another question. What if for example (If you are not Christian dont take this offensively) Christ came and said to you I am greatful of your faith in me but you are lacking in such or you are doing this wrong( basicly stating you are straying from the true path) would you take what he said into consideration because this Christ, to your knowlege is Christ or would you question him? What if questioning him meant damnation, would you still do it?

Well Dave, there are obviously things about my God which I don't fully understand, and certain misconceptions which I may have about him; of course that is to be expected. But if the God I thought I was worshipping were to turn out to be totally something I never imagined, then I guess the question is do I still worship him. I guess the answer to that is that if he's not the God whom I thought he was, then he's not my God, and I'll keep searching for the God whom I thought I was worshipping.

So what your saying if Christ for example wasnt how you pictured him or thought him to be you would discard him? Asuming that you feel there is another that is more to your belief of what he should be.

In a way, Dave, that is really what every Christian in fact does: The devil is the master of this world, but many refuse to serve the devil because he is evil. Such people hold to the belief that there is a God who is good and just and who will reward all those who refuse to bow down to evil.

No, the Anti-Christ will not disprove Gods' existence, he will infact proclaim himself the living God, with miracles to boot.

Those christians who are versed in the scriptures will know him for what he is, and not what he appears to be.

Also, there is the part concerning the "Rapture" in all of this, will the real christians still be around when this time comes or will they have been taken away to be with Christ?

Those who are left will then have the hard choice you are proposing...

What I meant was that he will state he is God but I feel he wont say he's the Allmighty. He will come as he will false but with the fact that he is here. He will disprove all religions with his coming and he will make a new religion with him based as the only God. Also only a handfull of Christians will be delievered from the Revelation, I believe I read it as 104,000 or 140,000. That is quite slim in a world that has a billion plus population that is rising by the seconds. Also a heavy majority of this population is Christian. especially in Europe and the US. I dont think he will be so easly proven fraud. Especially in a seening is believing mindset society like the world is today.

The number of those who are sealed are 144,00. 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. This has got nothing to do with the saved of the rapture although these 144,000 will also be taken at the same time. Those that repent after the rapture will have to endure it until death.

There is also a alternative interpretation, stating that only the 144,000 will be raptured and all of christianity will languish under the tribulation, becoming martyrs for their faith.

Revelation 7:5-14

4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

The Great Multitude in White Robes

9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:

"Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb."

11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:

"Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!"

13Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?"
14 I answered, "Sir, you know."

And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

As for the majority of Europe and the Americas being christian, I would ask, out of these, who are really christians and not christianized due to culture?

And if the christians are still around at this time, then those christians will not be fooled, this doesn't mean that those who are christianized won't be as well, since living in a christianized culture doesn't make them christians, living and breathing the word of God.