Interesting concept. The ying and the yang and whatnot. But aren't we just imposing our human qualities on this as an idea?

Not all creatures have this nature of duality.

Like you I don't believe there is a god, but am willing to accept the majority of people on this planet do believe in god/s. We non believers are the minority.

So, don't you think that a few saying the majority are in the wrong that it's tantamount to a schizophrenic believing they have voices in their head telling them what to do, and those who don't believe are themselves off balance? IOW - the world is crazy but I'm not...
Fact is - no one really *knows* for sure. But, if the majority believes - then who are we to say they're living in a fantasy world?

Do you believe that without oxygen you'd die?
Oxygen cannot be seen, but we know it's there... So, oxygen can be compared to faith...for the majority.

it does sound like i am committed to a particular perspective. For me, the key comes back to the uncertianty of our understanding and perception, thus even what sounds certian I do have uncertianty about. It is a conundrum indeed!


what makes it a fantasy world from not? Group consensus, nothing more.

As for Schizophrenia and groups, and the effects they have on thought and process, I will resort to two quotations from Osho for sake of brevity :

Man is split. Schizophrenia is a normal condition of man--at least now. It may not have been so in the primitive world, but centuries of conditioning, civilization, culture and religion have made man crowd--divided, split, contradictory.... But because this split is against his nature, deep down somewhere hidden the unity still survives. Because the soul of man is one, all the conditionings at the mos destroy the periphery of the man. But the center remains untouched--thats how man continues to live. But his life has become a hell. The whole effort of Zen is how to drop this schizophrenia, how to drop thi split personality, how to drop the divided mind of man, how to become undivided, integrated, centered, crystallized. The way you are, you cannot say that you are. You dont have a being. You are a marketplace--many voices. If you want to say 'yes', immediately the 'no' is there. You cannot even utter a simple word 'yes' with totality.... In this way happiness is not possible; unhappiness is a natural consequence of a split personality.

The majority consists of fools, utter fools. Beware of the majority.
If so many people are following, that is enough a proof that something is wrong.
Truth happens to individuals, not to crowds.

the one that is within our god the father who made us in his image.

So what your saying is that we should just test it out and strap a plastic bag over our heads to be sure if its really true?

We can see the evidence in other people. We can see other physical evidence such as shortness of breath if we are in a burning building.

Not the same thing as faith at all.

OH...well in that case..I dont believe God made us in his image...the God i worship is just a being..like an energy not human form

Ah he was using that oxygen camparison because that what martial artist use to describe "chi" sometimes. You can't see it but you can feel it, same with chi. The thing is that you can see aura's which is basically seeing chi. Martial artists only have a fraction of the whole chi and internal energy thing.

Is it not wierd that there are similarities between all the chi, prana, bio energy things?? That india and china, native americans and south americans all have a history of some sort of chi phenomenon. Europeans are the only civilisation which seemed to have created the athiest or scientist and have no history of chi, like europeans don't have budism or martial arts. They have Christianity which seems to have have no spirtuality at all. From my point of view there's loads of spirituality but i say that it has just been lost in the mists of time. If you compare europeans to the other civilisations it seems to me that europe was the most destructive of them all. I'm not saying that the other civilisations were perfect because china had barbarians and the conquered places a long with mongolia. Also South america, if you have seen apocolipto then you'll know what im on about there. I'm too sure about india though.. not familar with their history, all i know is that the dalilama guy was worshiped like a god and he abused his power and he had to flee tibet to india. They do have that massive white building thing which is famous all over the world, the tajmahal building (too lazy to get correct spelling). Also from what i have seen from documentaries and all the amazing structures that have been built, that the past civilatiations were not idiotic at all by all means they were very very intellegent the same as we are today.

In india there is a palace wear they worship rats and they also worship cows. You can't buy beef burgers in the Mc Donalds in india not as if there is beef in Mc Donald burgers anyway but in the past when men were hunters and bushmen, they treated animals with the highest respect and didn't kill for the krak. They killed the animal for food, clothes or self defence. Unlike today wear animals are a statistics and are just a process from an animal to one of the many products in the supermarcket or butchers. Even the name butcher is terrible, just people are so used to it. Yes, they may appear the same if you compare them just one deals with bigger mass of meat but it's the "intention" behind an act wear all the diffrence is made. You can either ride a woman or make love to her. The same thing if you watched but the intention makes all the diffrence. what i'm saying in terms of worshoping rats is that it's stupit or idiotic it's just that one should respect animals and tree's and other people. Yes i do think worshoping rats is a bit extreme. The pain animals have been put through when they have been slaughtered is unreal!! you would through up to witness slaughters in a slaughter house especially in america. The worst thing is that is because of our stupid society wear greed rules and business is greeds product, we have created this. It's very sad You might ask what has this to do with the exsistance of god and this topic, well to be honest it has nothing to do with it but from my years of thinking no matter what you talk about it's all the same thing. There's no diffrence, it's all related in one way or another.

In all fairness we are going on about god while there is poverty and pain in our world today. If we put as much effort as we do debating about the exsistance of god or not just god but the whole spirituality vs athiest debate into helping the world then the world would be a better place. I'm my point of view god left us long ago, we're on our own now. You can see this form thee old adam and eve story. They took the apple from the tree and god told em to fu*k off. See they got greedy and greed enitced them to do it (snake), you can relate this to everything in life. By no means am i christian it's just thats how i understand the story. If you cast away your greed and love things then you could say that you have found god.

This is what I mean about intention. You see if chi is real then your intention is channeled through your chi. Thats how I think jesus performed his miricles. He had such a love for people the he channeled his love throught his chi and healed people. If you think i'm talking a load a sh*te then i'll put some proof to it. I'm sure you all reading this have heard of the placebo effect. You see your intention is to get rid of your cancer but you all you do is think about the cancer going away, your body gets rid of it even though you may not know anything about the body the cancer still goes away. You basically wished it away but you didn't think systematically and biologically how it was going to be cured your subconscious did that for you i soppose. The same with chi, you have such a love for a person that when you put your energy with the intention of healing the person in pain your subconscious will do whats nessesary to heal them. I didn't really prove that chi was real but in my point of view i think there is just too many people who devote there lives to it and write books about it and go on and on about it and the history about it for it to be and illusion that we have created.

Comparing oxygen to faith is pardon me a lil out of wack LOL you cant see oxygen on most days but you sure CAN feel it...and on a winters day...you can see how cold the air is when you breath LOL so sorry that cant compare with faith...difference is WE KNOW oxygen is there we can see it some times and all the time feel it LOL

You cant feel or see God...its just a belief we hold..

well then mom of becky how the hell did you come to walk apon this earth if you wernt born of your mother and whith some help from your father .

your living proof arent you.

the understanding of god is when one knows the mother and father aspects of oneself ,so simple even a child could understand.

you can't have the true one ,without the two makin up one.

uhhh MAD...that says NOTHING that we are made in Gods image...how the heck do you know God is in human form???...If you believe God is..then thats fine...but see I have MY OWN views on who or what God is.....why do people think that if you follow God you MUST believe in the same things as them??? please tell me this

I dont believe in the theory the bible gives that we all came from just 2 people lol...I believe we all evolved ...NOW thats my beliefs...thats what I am sticking to....okie dokie?? please accept my belief...after all you would expect me to do the same for you

I think there has to be a God, mainly because we couldn't of just appeared and we could not have been created by the big bang. Have u every heard of someone being born from a bang?

I dunno LOL but I know that if someone lets off a big banging fart there is a lil sh*t that is born shortly after it

And my partner and I......hence lil Becky is born sorry LOL im just kidding harmful joke

sorry LOL I couldnt resist lol

thats fair

but in truth you were born of flesh right by your mother .

you see i believe it was the mother that most teach there children to be with honor and give them courage and be strong so one day

the souls of there blood would walk the earth and the cycle beginds again.

NOTE: i flunked spelling

looking at all the variety of life, different species of the same kind of animal in the same areas, different kinds of plants growing together. too many different varieties to be accidental, or to have evolved. no reason for such evolution. complexity of lifeforms, and parts of life forms not probable to have evolved, many mutations would have had to happen at the same time, mating with each other, then this process repeating, for evolution to be responsible for all the species and even life.

science- the universe is ordered, everything is just right for life to exist on this planet, odds of this happening by chance are so high as to be improbable.

humans- from the oldest finds by archeologists, to today, and what has been discovered about older religions based on found writings and translated, man has believed in some kind of creator always. having looked at many religions, all share a common thread, both mono thiest and pantheons, a supreme or chief deity, with other spirits who serve him/her them. and most have an evil deity as well opposed to the good deity(s), and this opposition is almost always because of man. either the evil deity hates man, and wants to destroy us, or they seek to be worshiped by man, in place of or as equal to the good deity(s). often animals are used as objects as worship, not because the animal is itself dvine, but because it embodies attributes of the deity(s) being worshiped and thus becomes sacred. even in the pantheon religions(ones with more than one god/goddess) their is a supreme god that rules over all the others.
peoples from all over the world, different regions, and different cultures all have similar religious beliefs. most worship the good deity but some side with the evil one. there are no differences really in the most basic aspects of all religions. only in the finer points. mostly it is to help each other, take care of each other, and love each other. but to not let the evil ones get away with doing harm to those who are innocent. and the other central point i found is choice, choice to serve the good ones or the bad ones. the choice to help each other or hurt each other. because of this freedom of choice, a wrong doer could not say the evil deity made me do it, because the person had the choice to do or not do.

those who do not believe in a deity as described above, still believe in an eternal spirit.

all this leads me to the conclusion that there is a being who designed, and created all things, for their own purposes. and i believe such being(s) would put into their creation the ability to conceive of a creator(s). which is why so many different and diverse peoples all developed very very similar religions.

to me, any being that was worthy of being called deity would be above us, far far more knowledgeable, and wiser. by this, we would not be able to understand all the reasons such being(s) would allow bad things to happen. however, it would not be our place to judge such a being(beings). saying we don't like the way the being(s) do things or allow things, so we are not going to believe in them, cause they don't do things the way we think they should be done, is well, arrogant on our part. and to blame a deity for what we do to each other, while we ourselves do nothing but blame the deity for not stoping it, instead of trying to help and to lift up those that are down, is lazyness. it is easier to blame a deity for not doing something than ourselves. (if you think this is harsh, you should here what i said about christians, being as i am one, and know of which i speak concerning them, compared to that, this is nice)

lil becky all farts aside we are comming into were the preist and preisttess ,mother, father male and female dark and light will be as one in worship of

liveing god , not an idole, one that walks the earth in the present ,the here and now.

the wedding is soon theres a chamber tobe found.

Listen up MAD...I told you what I believe ok??? you then said...


and yet you have returned to get at me again and again with another two posts about the same thing....

Now I made myself CLEAR...just in the same way YOU made yourself CLEAR.....

I told you I accepted your belief...asked you to do the same...but sigh

So.............I don't believe for a split sec we all came from Adam and Eve...that story doesnt ad up....I believe in another theory called EVOLUTION

I believe God is NOT ..human form....I believe God as a type of energy

NOW...Just because you believe that we humans are the most advanced creatures there is...that don't mean that out of this big massive universe that God IMO has created...that there is not an even more advanced race better than us...and for all you know, they too prolly believe that God/creator of some kind is in THEIR form.....you cant prove to me there is no life else where on the universe ...just because MAN cant get proof of it...it would be rather ignorant to only believe that out of ALL that God has created, he only gave live to one of the SMALLESTs of planets, from all the other planets you can ever imagine.......very ignorant indeed

And another thing humans where not the 1st ever living things God created either...this earth I believe is billions of years old...there where Dino's before US long long before US...man has PROOF of that...so dont preach to me about what truth is...when you only have what I have......and that is - a BELIEF...thats it...
Come on I didnt go preaching to you...I just answered something from your post...gave my opinion and now im being preached to...I have read what you believe in and I accept your beliefs HONEST but I dont have to agree...no offence to you...please understand

I had hoped you would just accept my beliefs as I explained them to you...but lets hope this time you might take the hint

I am not that easy to convince when it comes to religion.............the bible is a load of cobblers to me...I have my OWN views of God and straight up...I am just as every bit as entitled to them just as much as you are or any other religious person...

Not one person alive can make me see things a lot different that I see thing now............I am happy with my belief...now if that gets to you..and you keep at me and at me and for the love of posts at me some more.........................I'll WILL see that as trying to convert...and that my friend is against the rules here...so please move on....

I will end this telling you I respect your rights on what you believe in..I told you before...now please for the last time....accept and respect me for mine...ok??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_47KVJV8DU

The screen froze on me..so would you like to explain to me exactly what it was?? and WHY you posted it??

I know you respect my beliefs so I just wondered

cheers

The theory behind evolution is that it's all about radiation and mutations. lets say uranium releases radiation and a pregnant lioness is sleeping and the radiation goes right through her and mutates her cub. When the cub is born and he has no legs. Because the cub has no legs he can not catch his food and therefore the cub will die, he cannot survive in such a world. Lets say that that lions don't have claws and one of the cubs of these clawless lions is born with claws due to radiation then this helps the lion to catch food and therefore it helps him live and helps the lion. Now the lion gets to mate because he get's to live on. His claws will be passed on to the next generation and then the next and so forth..

Basically evolution is prone to progress or development. For humans however there is a problem.. Human sympothy is destroying our gene pool because we keep disabled people and people with bad genes alive with our medicine and doctors and care centre's. So people who couldn't possibly live in the wild are kept alive because of our society and genetic problems are passed on to the new generation in turn degrading our gene pool.

Thats why animals and plants seem to be so diverse and also have some usless features. However there are some things you see in animals that can not be by mistake, very inprobable. Such as a comelion and how he can change the colour of itself. I believe that the mind may have some influences behind the mutation.

Well we are all entitled to our opinions..but I dont wish to debate any of it...I dont want to turn this into another evolution thread

Its a joke regarding the topic of the thread.


Curious why you assume that it was about you or your beliefs. Just asking, you don't need to reply.

Try to understand that there are other people posting on here with whom I am interested in communicating.

I thought we agreed that we weren't addressing one another on here? That means I'm not talking about you when I post. Just so you are sure to understand. Nothing I post in the future is about you or your beliefs or anything you say.

I respect your beliefs.

I didnt accuse you of anything and you know it...but you must see why I thought you where AIMING that at me...cuz it was a while sinse you posted in here...then suddenely you come in read my post and you posted that link right after my post...it stands to reason...anyone would think the same

But see I KNOW you so respect mefor my beliefs...after all when I once told you about believing in prayers helping me...you where such an angel...you totally respected me for believing in PRAYER awwww something I wont forget

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_47KVJV8DU

...

Excelent point.

I'm one who believes that if enough people concentrate on something - the eventuality is more than possible. Some call it prayer. I wouldn't. It's more like group consciousness fomenting a change.



I like this quote. To follow anything blindly is foolhardy imo.

The previous quote suggests we're schizophrenic. Well, we'd be unbalanced if we weren't positive and negative. Whether you want to label it and believe it's schizophrenic is a personal choice.

i have a few things to say, 1st of all, GO BECKY GO BECKY!!!, I THINK ALMOST THE SAME THING!!!, second of all, i believe in evolution someday we are all going to either have some disability, or we will adapt and be more advanced. my fingers are kinda crooked, thats a mutation in my genes, my pinky and my ring finger fit together like a puzzle, same with my "#^%@ you" finger, just wanted to add that in for a little rude humour, anyway that finger and my pointer finger fit together also, this stands to reason that either there was a mutation in my genes. . . or we evolved from some creature with a 2 finger shaped hand-like thing, hard to explain.


ALSO, the human foot used to be straight, the toes were aligned at the bottom, because they were used to grip onto things back along, but since shoes, we dont use them anymore "no wonder, its freakin tought to grab something with ur toes. . ."

____--___
|----|_|---|--__---__
|----|_|---|_|--|_|--|--__
|----|_|---|_|--|_|--|_|--|
|----|_|---|_|--|_|--|_|--|
|----\_|---\_|--\_|--\_|--|
|---------------------------|
|---------------------------|<-------------used to be human foot, look at urs now, the toes are crooked, I AM NOT DRAWING THAT!
|---------------------------|
|---------------------------|
|---------------------------|
\---------------------------/
\________________/


i do not believe that there is a god, because if he created the stuff then how was he made? how was the thing that made him made? how was that made and that made and do i prove my point? "sigh" i spent 10 minutes on this, it better not get lost and it better be good, lol


evolution is real, it simply takes time, and many species of one creature can be made at once with one procreation. "advanced term, u know what i mean adults"
i believe that there are aliens, but we have no means of getting to them . . . if this were star trek voyager "my favorite show ever" we would be allied to many different species, all huminoid for some reason. . . but we dont have the technology yet. we might one day, we cant be alone out here, there could be millions of other species, MILLIONS!!! but i dont believe in god, and i dont believe because of the you make something something made u something made that theory also if god was real, and cared like the god that is in religions, he wouldnt be letting us suffer. . . the children that die, the adults that are loyal to him that still die, the things that happen to people, they are all so horrible, yet this "god" lets us go through it all?! REDICULOUS!!!! becky might be right about the energy thing, just some sort of energy that created us, everything is a mystery, all that is beyond our reach is anyway.

Evolution is still going on... Where did all the dinosaurs go which roamed this earth millions of years ago? We know they existed by the fossil finds. Remnants of the dinosaurs still exist...but, in reverse order...they went from big to small. A one celled amoeba went from small to large...possibly. ; )

Which brings us to the obvious question - how did the/a creator come to be? Just materialized from nothing? Sounds more like a one celled amoeba to me...
It's another chicken/egg dichotomy.

A fellow Voyager fan I see LOL it's my fav too...but now I am hooked on a new tv sci fi called Hereos...its excellent...about how 5 people have evolved each one has a special power...ie the cop can hear thoughts......Anyhoo...I don't believe evolution is to disprove God ...I believe God is the energy that created what is responcible for everything that has over the past billions of years...its an approx figure of 5-6 billion years in the making...thasts a mighty long time for things to evolve...cuz as you know, evolution does take a lot of time lol

But take a peice of food, left over, place it in a container...keep it hidden for a number of weeks, go and take a look at it...and that my friend, is evolution...the things that came from that peice of left overs...even contained...still things will evolve...looks yucky !!!

Did you ver catch a news report on the lil duckling, that was born with 4 legs??? there was a pic and a report made about it also ina news section here on UM also...something we see as a defect...could well be the next step in evolution..............I mean who's to say that in the next hundred years from now, that ducks wont have 4 feet?? we dont know, cuz we wont be around!!! but we cant frown apon it...

Love the diagram you drew there of a foot...thats awsome

My main view is...Evolution does not mean there is no God...there is a God IMO...and its God that is responcible for all living things that have evolved...to me the bible has come up with an easy peasy way to tell us how we got here...like magic poof a man was made out of dust/dirt lol...then came woman...and these people lived for over 900 years??? lol uhhh dont think so...especially when early man, the avarage age was 26...people way back then, died pretty young....ohh but God is supposed to have gave them the power to lives and breed non stop what?? AND to explain as to why there are many different races...the bibles says..its some weird punishment to man WTF??? it doesnt make sense

Someone posted something about this..saying...they believe God made man from dirt...but refuse to believe we came from dirt too lol....hey its their belief..so meh each to their own..I cant tell them they are wrong...when i cant prove them wrong...all I can say is...I have my own views on it ad to me evolution has a lot more information than the bible

thanks for the post

you with that energy and me with my love for our father i know its hard to explain .how can you explain that warm loving light energy to be put into

words.

just wondering and sorry i'm so blunt when i talk.

Sorry that this didn't work out the way you intended, True! It was interesting though.

My God is not just energy..but full of love much like me

I'm back (briefly).

My proof stares back at me everytime I look in the mirror. No way something so perfect and handsome could have arrived by chance.

Did your mom tell you that too?? LOL just kidding LOL

See, with that I always wondered where this "divine being" came from, how could it just magically form?

Had I been born in Alabama, she and my cousin might have.

I don't get it??!! anyways...I was just kidding like I said before...its an ole joke we irish say...so your momma told ya so LOL that sort of thing

You would be amazed to see the outcomes of pure chance. A simple roll of the dice can create something as beautiful as a truck full of money.

You see an alien and there hidious and the see us and we're hidious to them. when the look at there own species they look normal.

Ahh, but with that beautiful truck full of money comes distant relatives and friends asking for some of it, taxes, etc. So how beautiful is it? Everything has its price.

Nothing is pure coincidence.

A truck full of money...........where? lemme at it lol

Seriously though...Everything DOES NOT have it's price (speaking in money terms it dont)

The love I hold for my child..........you can't put a price on that........for I wouldn't swop her for ANYTHING in the world....nadda bit...no sale!! lol

I hope she dont turn out like a reble like her mom LMAO..but even if she did turn out a lil like me..WOW I'd accept it lol..after all I didnt turn out so bad anyhoo

BUT name me a mother or a father for that matter...regardless how bad the teenager is..would give them away never to see them again??

A mom and dad who loves their kids...will show discipline..yeaa..but wont swop them for love nor money

Whoever raised you..may have done a good job..but I'll bet tthey would never have swopped you

Proof of a creator being is in everything around me. I see design in the things around me... therefore, with design comes a designer. It's as straight forward as that for me, albeit squished down into a itty bitty nutshell.

[I was talking to a friend about my idea of a creator being, and her little kiddie asked me "you've got a crate of beans?"... he got a bit excited and wanted some... I had to buy a tin. ]

Grrrrr...I'm not saying that any parent would sell their children, although some do. I'm saying that there is a price, not necessarily monetary, for everything! Let me try rephrasing it, everything has a consequence. Does that work better? Example: I smoke. One of the consequences for smoking is the risk of cancer. So, the price I pay for smoking, besides $3.10 per pack, is the risk of getting cancer. So, now that we're on the same page, everything has a price.

For the record, my father "gave me away" and opted for a life without the added responsibilities of raising his second son. I haven't seen him in twelve years, and may never again. sh** happens.

FYI: I'm working on quitting my vile habit.

Good point!
I want a crate of beans too!

Dont grrrrrrr me LMAO

$3.10 a pack WTF??? that like £1.50 our money...WOW...we pay £5.45 a pack...thats like $9.26 a pack...holy ciggys WHAT???

*starts to wonder should she orde her ciggys from the USA*