Does God forgive us for our sins?why is it necessary to repent and do we really need to confess our sins through a preist,why not directly to God.The catholic church is only dividing people from God by telling us we have to go to confession in order to be forgiven.What do others here think about Gods forgiveness,is God forgiving and how does a person become forgiven by God?Just curious.

forgiven? "A murderer or adulterer's sins are completely and pernamently forgiven the moment he believes and places faith in christ". repentance? "Many understand the term repentance to mean turning from sin,this is not the biblical definition of repentance"

Talk to God directly. You need no priest to talk to God. Does God forgive? Yes.

I agree with you ashley.I will never understand why people need a preist to reach God. Just found this site> Link and found it worrying.If you scroll down there is a list of questions regarding suicide and forgiveness.The people that sent the questions are being told that even though alot of them have mental ilness they could go to hell if they do commit suicide and they will be lost for all eternity,they are being told that it is satan that is causing these thoughts and not chemical imbalance(some of the senders mention having deppresion,being bi polar)I dont agree that your soul will be lost.I feel people arent understanding when it comes to suicide and that anyone who commits suicide wasnt in the right frame of mind and cant be seen as responsible for what they did.Is suicide a sin?Does God forgive people that commit suicide?I have always had a strong view on this and wonder what kind of a God would let a person with an imbalance be held responsible for suicide.

Is suicide a sin? Well there is no direct text which states it is not even in the 613 Mitzvahs (from where the 10 commandments came from). They are taking it from 'thou shalt not kill'. But God ordered people to kill. And futhermore it's a mistranslation, what God actually said was 'Though shalt not murder'. Can one really murder themselves? Murder is done in cold blood to another person. As for hell, there is no hell. There is Sheol but it's not the same thing and it doesn't last for all eternity. You always have the chance to be reincarnated and fix your errors.

suicide is a sin and forbiden in all religions, even in Islam altho we hear about suicide bombers. suicide is forbiden taking human life, including one's own life. Under normal circumstances, 'suicide' is a clear indication of one's lack of reliance on God's wisdom, mercy and knowledge. Taking one's life is, under normal circumstances, an act of desperation, where man loses all hope in life and in God and succumbs to the pain and injury that he may have faced.
Suicide implies lack of trust in God and a lack of faith in His benevolence, mercy, love, wisdom and knowledge. In effect, suicide implies an overall lack of faith in God. When a person commits suicide, he practically declares that he does not believe that God knows about his sufferings, and even if God has knowledge of his sufferings, He does not care enough to relieve him of these sufferings. He practically declares that God has unjustly inflicted pain upon him, which he is not willing to bear. He practically declares that he does not have faith, confidence and trust in the mercy and wisdom of God, as he does not have confidence that God will end his pain in time, and therefore he has to end his sufferings himself (by taking his own life). Thus, in effect, suicide - in most of the cases - is a clear sign of negation of the faith of a person in his Merciful, Omniscient and Wise Creator and is therefore its prohibited in all religions including islam. Suicide is a great sin that leads straight to hell.

Mithra how do you feel about people that end their life while they are suffering with a mental ilness or a chemical imbalance,surely they cant be commiting a sin.

Hi sheleven,

Since you mention the Catholic Church I am assuming you are asking about the Christian God.

Yes, He definitely does forgive sins. He became a man, led a perfect life and died an unnecessary, painful and degrading death so that your sins would be paid for if you will accept that you have sinned and accept that death as payment for them, your sins will be completely forgiven; and no, according to the Bible you do not have to go through a priest, you can go directly to God. Hope that answers your question.

yes.
what is the point in seeking forgiveness if you are only going to go out mess up again?
The priest is there to guide one through confession and to give advice and assurance of forgiveness.
Ever been to confession? It is an amazing thing.

Hi Sheleven; Nice to meet you, and Welcome to our forum

I think God does forgive us our sins, but only if we are repentant of our sins. I knew a man who said he could go out and kill someone and God would forgive him. I don't think God does this when people begin thinking "I can do whatever I want and God will forgive me". I think it's wrong to think that way. We are human and because we are human, we make mistakes because we are not perfect.

Sheleven, I don't go to church any more because I never agreed with the practice that we have to confess our sins to someone else and all we'd have to do is say ten "Hail Marys" and ten "Our Fathers" to be forgiven. I think your relationship with God is very personal. I just pray by myself. I think we should never assume that we will be forgiven. That's like saying "I stole a car and now God has to forgive me." The best thing we can do is to truly be repentent for our sins. Anyone can say "I'm sorry I did that" but to truly feel repentent you have to feel it in your heart and soul. After truly repenting, I feel we should try to be a good Christian and not to make the same mistakes.

I have heard it said that we should fear God. This does not mean that God is a horrible tyrant and likes to punish people for every transgression. When I looked up the word "fear" in the Bible Concordance, I found it means "to have a deep feeling of reverence for", and that's what I feel for God. God is a forgiving God.

God is always willing to forgive, but his mercy is first and foremost to those who believe in this mercy of God. This belief in his mercy is a sign of faith. Faith is necessary in order to enter into a relationship with God; that is why it is important to believe that God is merciful.

I don't think that it is necessary to have a priest in order to obtain forgiveness, although a person who makes an honest confession to a priest will, nevertheless, obtain pardon. The theology associated with the Roman rite of reconciliation (as confession is now referred to as) are to help ensure that the penitent is not just confessing, but in fact has the intention of repenting.

A priest allows one to present sins to a person that is supposed to understand the concept very well. Given the confession, one should at times, when another has been wronged by the sin, be required a penance to make right with those one has wronged. I am not Catholic, but I believe this was the original intent, and is the purpose of confession in my beliefs. This then allows those we have wronged the opportunity of forgiving us.

God gives us the trials and life we have. Everything that happens to us in life is happening for a reason. God never gives us something we cant handle in our lives. We only think we cant. All life should be respected. Including your own. When you take your life you are in my opinion disrepecting yourself when you take your life because it is selfish. Now when someone saves a life with their death in self sacrifice that is honorable. Because you are taking a noble step in helping your fellow man. So there is a difference in suicide and sacrifice, one is honorable and one is selfish. But then how do we truly judge such actions? We cant that is why I believe that judgement is in the Lord's hands.

Here is the way I see it, your not confessing to a priest your confessing through him. You don't have to confess your sins through a priest. There are some benefits in confessing through a priest, a priest could provide spiritual council for example.

I think of the priest as a lawyer, you can represent yourself in court but if you don't know anything about law(faith/religion) or don't know how to communicate to a judge/jury(God) getting a lawyer isn't a bad idea.

Great way of interpreting this. I liked it alot.

I think god's love and his forgiveness are unconditional. It is not even HIS requirement that our acceptance of him and our belief in him are sincere. This is just a logical requirement for his forgiveness to operate. If you know that your desires are not sincere, you will not be able to recieve and accept his forgiveness, even though it is there waiting for you. I remember an old sunday school story from my child hood, which I never really appreciated until recently. God is constantly knocking at the door of our heart, seeking entrance. However, he cannot come in until we willingly open that door and open up our heart to him. This is part of the deal he made in creating us with free will. He will forgive anyone and any action, because jesus purchased us that forgiveness with his sacrifice, along with god's forgiveness of the whole human race for their progenitor's exercise of free will when they disobeyed him in the garden of eden. The forgiveness of those sins allows us to take our place once again as immortal beings as part of the "new heaven and the new earth."
Of course non of this is relevant to non believers, but if you acknowledge the reality of god then it becomes critical. No other intermediatary is necessary between a person and god, because jesus has already fulfilled this role (and not just for christians, but for all humanity)

matthew12:31 wherefore i say onto you, ALL MANNER OF SIN and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men.but the blasphemy against the holy ghost shall Not be forgiven unto men...

acts 2:38 then peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall recieve the gift of the holy ghost..

1timothy 2:5. for there is 1 god and 1 mediator between god and men the man christ jesus .

matt 12:31 tells us god will forgive all sin. other than blasphemy of the holy ghost.
acts is the plan steps requirments of salvation.. when you confess your sins you are acknowledgeing them naming them and actully are feeling remorse for committing them when repent you turn away from those things that you can acknowlege being sin.then when you are baptized you are washing away those sins and apply christ...like in the old testment when the isrealites would be circumsized now insteed of the circumision of the skin it is circumsision of the heart.recieiving the gift of the holy ghost is the spirit of god dwelling in you without it you are none of his..

1 tim.dont need a priest to confess to..need to confess to god through jesus who is the lawyer who is the only one who can pardon your sins ..if a priest would teach the ppl correctly on how to approach god it would put them out of a Job..i agree ppl need instruction sometimes but the correct instruction if one is in a place where they feel repentence and god dealing with their heart then they should also be able to know how to handle it. that seems to be a big factor not knowing what and how to do with conviciton which leads to repentence. ppl should have direction not misleadence.ppl should confess their faults one to another but one must present their sins before god no one can pray someone elses sins away only the individual . ppl go in and confess to a priest and think their in the clear.but what have they really accomplished?.

isis2200 thanks for the welcome I feel the same way as you.I recently stopped attending mass for the same reasons.I dont agree with alot of what the catholic church teaches.I dont feel the need to confess through a priest because i feel we all have a personal connection with God.I pray everyday so i dont think missing mass or choosing not to go to confession will make a difference.

Some people prefer to confess through a Priest, I suppose it could be having another human sitting there listening and also their religious upbringing. Other people are quite happy to go the "direct route" with no third party involved.

Personally, I don't think either way is wrong, if the confession means the person is going to try their utmost to not do the same thing again, I am sure that if other people give them the benefit of the doubt God will do so much more.

I have never felt the need to confess via a Priest, God knows what I have done anyway, all I am really doing is acknowledging my wrongs and hoping to put them right, sometimes I succeed, many times I fail - I guess all I can really do is to keep trying my hardest and hopefully all will come right in the end - I also hope that I don't take too long in some things because it don't half get boring going through the same things again and again until I learn LOL!

Without a doubt, I do believe the God forgives - if you are genuine that is, I also reckon He has unlimited patience, but I don't think that's a passport to taking the mickey!

I suppose you got that last part from the bible too did you?

Funny, must have missed that all these years.

As for "Thou shalt not murder".

Murder is done in cold blood and with purpose. You have to make that decision. You have to cross that line between simple violence and murder.

A person who commits suicide does so, with full concious decision, to jump, pull the trigger or swallow the pill. The moment you decide to end a life purposefully, you have commited murder.

Tell me how a suicide victim doesn't qualify?

Hello there, I think that for God to act out forgiveness he would have to be angry or upset with you in the first place. Which in my opinion is giving God human characteristics which is lessoning his divinity. God knows all and all that is to be so you cannot displease him all you can do is learn from your lessons he teaches you and move on.

(some faster than others)

If we are only speaking of the Christian God, I would say no he is not very forgiving. Being a non-Christian and a Pagan I have been told may times I will burn for my beliefs. Oh well, I'll just hold my nose and jump in with my friends. My Gods are forgiving, they don't expect we are going to know all we should know. They are teachers and will just send you back for summer school.

Oh we can't displease him that's true to a point, but we sure can disapoint and hurt him with our attitudes and sins.

When the bible says that he created us in his image, I'm certain that it had more to do with our emotions and thoughts than with the physical body. As such he can get upset and be angry, those are qualities he gave humans too.

I agree- talk directly to God. At least when you open a direct channel with God then you can have assurance that he is actually there!

Yes. God is our heavenly Father. Does a Father not love his children? how much more would God? Lets love him back

how about we see what the word of God has to say about forgiveness...shall we

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 john 1:9

If any man sin we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous. and he is the propiation for our sins: and not for our's only; but also for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:1


I think that is clear enough

ashley there is no such thing as reincarnation, limbo, or purgatory the bible teaches no such thing as "the living know that they will die but the dead knowtj nothing"

also if you die by suicide u have sinned against yourself and God.....as suicide is also a sin .

Reaaaahelllly? No reference to reincarnation huh? First of all ALL JEWS and EARLY CHRISTIANS believed in reincarnation.

Now, Jesus says that John the Baptist is ELIJAH RETURNED. Elijah was a PROPHET of the OT turned the angel Sandalphon (the only other human to become an angel was ENOCH turned Metatron one of the HIGHEST ANGELS in Heaven replacing satan's place in essence). Furthermore he said that 'Enoch too will die' meaning he too shall return to Earth in mortal form and die. He escaped death along with Elijah the first time. Then there's the part about BEING BORN AGAIN, which has NOTHING to do with born again Christianity, butwhere Jesus says 'lest thou be born again though cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven' The man asks 'born again through the mother's womb?' AND HE SAYS YES. You get more than one shot at earthly existence, deal with it. Then there's the part about the two witnesses in Revelation who are identified with Enoch and Elijah AGAIN being born and dying.

Secondly I said nothing about 'limbo' I'm talking about the HEBREW SHEOL. There is NO HELL, butthereindeed IS Sheol. There are also TEMPORARY prisonhouses for both fallen angels and humans (in separate places) who will 'serve the time of their sentence'. It is NOT eternal. And as for the supposed 'hell fire' the lake of fire is used by ANGELS not humans, as a means to bathe, dip their tongues and be baptised. They are baptised in FIRE because they are MADE OF FIRE. Humans are baptused in water, and this 'baptism in water for forgiveness of God' was used LONG before Jesus or John, Adam and Eve did itafter their expulsion from Eden letting their bodies swell in water for 40 days so that God would forgive them. t would have worked butsatan turned up tricked Eve again to get outof thewater. Adam recognised him and said 'WHY did you do this, WHAT have you against us?' to whichthe angel, satanail replied, 'Oh, dear Adam, don't you see, it is BECAUSE of you that I was cast out from among my bretherin and I will be after you for all eternity'. He's an accusing angel (who STILL WORKS FOR GOD as ALL angels fallen or unfallen, do, they are the Benai Elohim, the Sons of God) with a vendetta, prince of accususing angels who see your deeds and accuse youbeforethe Most High to take action on you to destroy you.

interesting never heard or read anything like this before..

Asheley you are very very lost as to what the text means..posting deceiving words..........tsk...tsk
why didnt you post the whole scripture...

John 3:5 "Verily Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again of Water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." simple

when it talks of water it means just as how Jesus was baptized else him getting baptized would have no meaning.........likewise he also said "go ye therefore into the world teaching all nations,baptizing them in the name of the father, son and holy ghost."


I know hell fire is not eternal.........it just means that the fire will keep burning till all the wicked are no longer and sin is nonexistant.


where do you get your info ?

You know that do you? That there is no such thing as reincarnation? How? Is it because the Bibile tells you so in your opinion or is it because you believe it to be so?

I ask these things because I DO believe in reincarnation, so now I ask another question - which one of us is right?

You see there is one thing I HAVE learned in this world and this is that you can never be 100% sure about anything, it doesn't matter what anyone else has told you or what you have read. All that really matters is what is in your heart and if you can truly say, you do not believe in reincarnation because you truly know in your heart that it is so, I will believe you, without a shadow of a doubt - I will believe that it is true for you.

But please do not tell others that you know this and you know that, you cannot know what they carry in their hearts nor can you ever know how they came by that information, therefore you can only ever say that what you state is in your opinion, just like the rest of us.

The reason I believe in reincarnation is because when I was 4 years old, I was playing with some toys on the floor and in my mind I was thinking, "what happens when we die?" it occurred to me that I couldn't just disintegrate, I could not just disappear, then in a flash I throught "I bet we come back as someone else". At that moment my mum walked in the door and I said to her "Mum when we die, we come back as someone else don't we" with that she turned to my uncle and asked him if he had been speaking to me about such things, he replied that he had not.

My family, are not religious and never were, they have never discussed such things with me. Now because I came to the conclusion regarding reincarnation at such a young age and without any prompting whatsoever, I really do believe in my heart that such things are true.

I also believe, however, that this belief is not for everyone - I also respect their disbelief.

Ashley, I read many of your posts, and yes they are interesting. Many people praise you as being one of the most knowledgable users on this forum when it comes to matters of religion. I have no quarrel with that.

What I do find interesting is how you are twisting scripture to fit your own paradigm of the way things should be, that doesn't necessarily mean that they truly are as you portray them.


Very true but only up to a point.

Elijah and Enoch are the only two human beings to have been taken bodily to heaven before their physical deaths. At this moment they are in heaven awaiting the time that they should return to earth.

Elijah and Enoch are the two witnesses (prophets) of the end times as stated in Revelation 11.

These two men have yet to die and they are very special because God is going to send them to the earth for 3 1/2 years to preach and do many marvelous and awesome signs and wonders: Shutting up heaven, halting the rain, turning waters into blood, countless plagues, fire will proceed out of their mouths. They are going to be hated so much so that the people of the earth will send each other presents for the three days, as the prophets remain dead on the streets.

See: The two witnesses

A 2nd point that needs to be addressed is that we cannot be given the status of angels. "Angel" is not a title, it is a type of being. You or I or any other person cannot ever become angels just as a chimp can never become human. Each of us are what we are. Just as a fallen angel like "Lucifer" is still a angel even if he is not in Gods service anymore.

As for when Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah returned;

Jesus's disciples had enough schooling in the Old Testament to remember the promise from Malachi that Elijah would return before the messiah. So, if Jesus was the messiah, where was Elijah? Jesus himself answered that quite clearly: "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come." [Matthew 11:13-14]

Please note the emphasis in red.

So John the Baptist claimed not to be Elijah, but Jesus said he was. While John the Baptist was not Elijah, he had the same spirit, power, and tempermant as him. He was cut from the same mold as Elijah, yet slightly different, he did not run from the Queen's threats as Elijah had done, but accepted imprisonment and died before Jesus's work was complete. The Jews hung on the promises of Elijah's return and waited patiently for him, even to this day. But, Jesus acknowledged John the Baptist as "the Elijah" that needed to come before him; who would know this subject better than he?

But was he the physically same Elijah as spoken of in the Old Testament? No.
There is yet another quite glaring proof that this is not a case of reincarnation. John the Baptist was born to a physical mother without Elijah having died. Does he now posses two bodies?

Also, please note that nowhere in the bible do you find the names "Sandalphon" or "Metatron". These are part of Midrashic traditions and as such are not part of the scriptural canon of the bible. Some Midrash discussions are highly metaphorical, and many Jewish authors stress that they are not intended to be taken literally. These teachings are not linked to a straight foreward interpretation of biblical text.


I've referenced this in the beginning of my post. Please note that these are the two witnesses of revelation.



Does he say yes? lets look, shall we?

John 3:3-12

3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Nowhere do I see Jesus actually agreeing with Nicodemus' statement as you imply, rather I see him correcting a misconception. Please note Jesus' explanation from verses 5 to 12. He is speaking of a spiritual rebirth not a physical one.

I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?


Misisnterpretation of scripture doesn't equal knowlege, Ashley. Nowhere in the scriptures will you find one piece of evidence proving your case. No matter how much you wish it to be otherwise.

Finally there is one verse that settles the matter.

Hebrews 9:27

Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment...


I agree with you, when people die, they go to Sheol, or Hades (they are the same). Sheol is divided into two parts, one of paradise another of suffering.

But there is also a hell. It is empty at the moment. There is nobody in hell at this time. Only after the final judgement will hell become occupied by those fallen angels and by humans who refused Gods sovereignty.

Revelation 21:6-8
6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."



I have a question for you now. If angels are made of fire, (I don't see the scriptures saying this) how could Elijah and Enoch have become angels?

Remember that an angel is a type of being as you yourself said and not a title of status. Humans don't become angels just as angels cannot become human. (even if the movie says otherwise )

The bible tells us there is no such thing as reincarnation as I explained to Ashley, no matter how much you would like to believe otherwise.

You are free to believe in reincarnation, as long as you don't try to base your beliefs on biblical interpretation and scriptures. The hindus believe in reincarnation, as do Buhdists but then they don't use the bible as their guide do they?

The text ends with 'you must be born again' which means what it says. Reincarnation. Angels are made of fire, that was the sin of satan (and yes satan DOES still work for God) when he refused to bow to Adam saying 'hy should a son of FIRE bow down to a son of clay (Adam)' as God commanded all the angels do. Thereare also other references of angels being made of fire. Enoch and Elijah were TRANSFORMED into fire as angels. And the Two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah read your footnotes.

As for the Hebrews passage I consider it a heretical work like much of the NT written by someone who had NO direct contact with God, angels or Jesus let alone know Jesus personally and is therefore the writer's opinion. And they aren't even sure WHO wrote Revelation.

I see...

So you pick and choose scripture according to how it suits your tastes?

In your eyes, is there is nothing wrong in extracting parts a text ignoring the content and context of said text, so that you can say that the bible proves reincarnation?

If something scripture says doesn't agree with your preconcieved ideas then it must be wrong?

Tsk, tsk... I thought that you were a responsible scholar of the biblical texts, not a judge as to what can be considered canon.

You do know that there is a scientific or rather scholoarly method of textual interpretation, don't you?

See: Hermeneutics

See:Biblical Exegesis

Ashley, don't you know that if you throw out any single book of the bible, you might as well throw out the whole thing?

The books exist as a group to keep people on the path of truth and righteousness, so that we don't go off at a tangent by adopting pet theories, which I am afraid you have done in this case.

You can believe all the apocryphal stories you want, just don't try to pass that off as having more authority than the biblical texts. Many scholars especially the Rabbis' who decided on the canon of the old testament and certainly had alot more knowledge than you or I, decided which books are canon and which are not, the information you are transmitting is not accepted canon in their books.

Please do me a favour and cite your source of information for the above affirmations, since as far as I know they don't exist in what we call the bible.

God doesnt forgive because God never condemns in the first place.

well what about the poor souls who jumped to their deaths from the WTC towers on 9/11? is it different for them?

Those poor victims are actually not their bodies but the soul. The soul is eternal hence they cannot truly die because they were never born.

You need to go back and study the bits that were removed from the Holy Book. Was it Constantine that ordered some things to be removed? Someone help me here please because I am sure that things were removed in order to give more power to the churches.

They did not want people believing in certain things and they thought it was extremely dangerous.

On another note (this won't go down too well with some), things are said on this site by some people (no-one in particular), they quote the Bible - but that's ALL they do, they never, ever put what is really in their heart in their postings, they post and quote, quote, quote! They never put their own thoughts, it is almost as they they are too scared to post those, in case they are punished or something! For crying out loud, have a bit of gumption, post what you really feel instead of what you have read and maybe you will discover something you never even knew you actually knew.

The Bible is a very Holy Book, unfortunately it can be taken too literally, there are so many hidden messages in it that only if you truly look with all of your being will you find them.

I have to say one thing though, arrogance is an extremely unpleasant human characteristic and it sure as hell can be limiting! And don't EVER belittle any religion, there is a lot to be learned from all of them, the fact some people are so blinkered as to not try is no-one's fault but their own.

I suppose that this post was directed at me even though you spoke in general. Another reason is that you quoted my post, as such it is my responsibility to answer you to the best of my abilities.

At this time there are over 15,000 manuscripts of varying ages that support the New Testament as it stands today. These manuscripts vary in age from the 1st Century to the 12th Century. The earliest of these are written in Greek and later ones are wriiten in a variety of languages from Old Latin to Coptic. They were found in various parts of the world from the middle East to the far East and as far south as Central Africa not mention Europe. Everywhere where the old Roman Empire had a presence has a vestige of manuscripts and engravings on walls, quoting scripture.

As of the present day, we can actually reconstitute the entire New Testament from these manuscripts and engravings. This is the reason why your argument that parts of the bible were edited and or manipulated to remove scripture is simply not factual. Even if Constatine had tried to manipulate or remove certain parts of scripture in the 3rd century, the evidence of such manipulation would have been found, since we have manuscripts predating this period. This has not happened.

There is evidence of only one attempt to manipulate scripture, from the 16th century and this is known as the Johanine Comma. The verse in question was an attempt to introduce legitimacy of the Trinity. Since only 1 manuscript was found containing this verse wheras the others did not have it, shows a clear case of attempted manipulation.

These attempts at manipulation have been tried but they have also been exposed due to the overwheming evidence of the manuscripts we have available regarding the New Testament.

As such, one can confidently say that you don't have a case in regards to the Bible having been altered and much less in that the bible supports reincarnation.

Now regarding the 2nd part of your post, where has any user on this thread (including me) belittled any religion as you stated?

Unless ofcourse you mean that you don't appreciate being shown the error of your affirmations.

Hinduism and Buddhism are both proponents of reincarnation, they are free to do so and it is not my place to judge their beliefs. As for the Bible, it does not support these beliefs and cannot be made to do so except with unfounded accusations and neglect of biblical interpretation and analysis of text.

Arrogance in my view is trying to pass off a message without bothering to find out whether you are using a supported source, which in the case of reincarnation, the bible is not.

Of course God forgives, the trick is learning to forgive yourself.

Absolutely true Thozzman, but if you have already killed yourself then it's too late for forgiveness one way or the other.

I'm not very familiar with Catholicism, but it seems like the fact that you confess to another human serves 3 purposes...1) The fact that you will be telling another mortal who may view you differently afterward will be a deterrent (however small) from sinning to begin with. 2) A priest will be able to give you penance to perform which will reinforce the idea that you did wrong and there are consequences (this also acts as a deterrent to some degree). 3) A priest can also give you guidance on how to prevent committing the same sin again (instead of doing this, do this instead). Just my thoughts.

A better question:

Does God really care if what we do is wrong ?

What is "wrong" in gods eyes ?

If the christians are right, I will be forgiven....if Im a christian. It is wrong to do anything that does not serve god.

If the muslims are right, I will be burned...if I am not a muslim. It is wrong to not be a part of allah.

If the fundamentalists are right, it is wrong to live life to the fullest.

If the buddhists are right, it is wrong to not find a middle path.

If the pagans are right, it is wrong to not live life to the fullest.






Its pretty silly to ask yourself if you need to be forgiven, when honestly no one knows who the actual guy who would care is.

Nothing offends the Spirit. Ultimately there is no right or wrong. They are one and the same, both are different ends of the same rope. God loves us and wants us to love Him because that is the only way we will be able to make ourselves truly happy. To truly love one many must start from the emotional bias love and end with the universal disinterested love. God never condemns eternally,to think so , that is a blasphemy against God.

Ultimately the universe is always as it should be........nothing we can do can go against God's or the universe's will.

Well Jude quotes Enoch so I'm sure if we want to start picking and choosing perhaps the people putting the Bible together shouldn't have been 'picking and choosing' and their knowledge of the subject regarding their judgement being better than mine is seriously doubtful honey. They put in there what they wanted and took out what they didn't like. Enoch has more weight to be in there than half those NT texts do.

why should he/she/it forgive anyone anything?

Why not? What has it got to lose by forgiving?

Well then, that would mean that you accept Enoch as scripture wouldn't it? Very well, where does Enoch convey the message that reincarnation is a part of biblical principles? Please provide the text with the refering passages.

Did I say a word about Enoch having said anything about the subject? It's in NT scriptures as I have already shown you.

Then just as easily and using your type of interpretation, I could say that Fallen Angels are no more than aliens who landed on our planet.

My dear, you can read all you want into individual verses, without taking the rest of the chapter into account.

This I'm afraid is not a scholarly attitude, especially when you use mythical tales to supplement your beliefs