La-la-la-link



*sighs*

Now, I don't care anymore why it's happening. Who's involvement is making it worse, or how many people are saying this is fake.

Truly, this is evidence that the earth is trying to compensate for something that it's loseing in many places elsewheres in the world. The globe *is* getting warmer... areas are becoming deserts and losing trees from droughts and well in the case of the Amazon (one of the main places we get that lovely oxygen we need to live!) man caused. So while the earth keeps getting warmer, and we're sitting here on our thumbs pointing fingers, it'll keep on doing what it always does to compensate for things that are being lost.

I really don't know why people would rather argue about this anymore. I've given up on the matter of who's to blame. Because the blame game's over. Now it's time to figure out how we can live with this huge change. And it's not a slow change either. Living the same way we've been living is not going to work for much longer. We will need different energy sources. And they are right infront of our noses, all which works with nature not against.

But, I know my words will fall on deaf ears, and the cries from them will be to call me a tree hugging hippie *points to title*. But you know what... I ain't the hippie of yesteryore protesting and doing whatever they did in the 60's. I guess you could say, being a shaman has let me notice things that most people won't even listen to.

The huge snowstorms that this country had? Why did it happen if the globe is warming? Because it was warm enough to snow like that. Snow only happens through a slim corridore of temprature. 34-29 F. (give or take a degree either way) And these places that got burried in snow are *normaly* below the 29 mark... where it's to cold to snow. And with a storm like that allowed to dump it's load down, it was able to grow big enough to reach areas that snow hardly ever happens. That's a problem.

Now trees are growing where trees hadn't for centuries.. Now yes, trees had been up in the polar tundra area before... When warm shallow seas covered most the globe. See where I'm going here? (Not that I wouldn't mind living near a warm shallow sea *snickers*)

But, like I said.. the blame game is over. We all will lose if we don't adjust. We can't stop it, no. But that's still not an excuse to do nothing and continue to burn fossil fuel. It's a reason to adapt, learn different ways to live with the enviroment, and learn how to live with sources of energy that will be only avalible to us when the planet changes enough that makes useing fossil fuels next to impossible. We want the human raise to survive? Well it's time to use this "Intelligence" that people like to say we have and find a way to adapt.

We live in interesting times. While of course I don't like what is happening to our planet, I don't mind being here to watch. I wouldn't want to miss this for the world <--- couldn't resist that last line

hurrah for the trees!

Change is the norm.

Positive feedback:

More trees = less snow cover and reduced albedo = warmer conditions = more trees....

Not like this it is not. This will mean some bad things for the eastern seaboard of the US and northwest Europe because it will result in drastic changes to to the gulf stream.

Welp like I said, last time there were trees up there, the earth was covered in warm shallow seas. So there will be a new eastern seaboard. NYC will be partialy under water, Florida will be gone as well. *chuckles* Change is the norm indeed.

Jeez, tree's growing already??!!

! I am going to have to move.

depends on your house in relation to sea level.

If it were the end of times, being stuck up in the trees and wilderness with Silver would be a great thing.

Phhht... yeah sure. I could use the meal.


But honestly.. it's not the end times. It's just climate change at a fast pace.

Source

the global warming swindle

watch it and learn it.

What's a swindle is people choosing to ignore the signs.

But that's ok.. your house could be 5 feet under a shallow sea and still claim the earth's climate's not changing. *snerks*

Just as you denounce reality, I denounce your attempt to clutch to the inability to accept change.

i say the same to you... i look for the change, but i prepare for it not with rising waters but ice.

so when your stuck in the ice in a boat, ill throw you a life preserver and scream "global warming, global warming"

So which is it global warming by geothermal, global warming from the sun or an oncoming ice age?


That program is nonsense and all the evidence used has been disproven and the director had to appologise for falsifying evidence before airing.

just you wait... runaway global warming is a joke and wont happen....

How long ago did you give up, Silver? If you look at the earth surface structure and you see that the ice continents are melting and only to give lessons on the resilience of the seed. And what seed is that? The trees and the vegetation. The researchers were suprised to find that the trees had grown and covered the area so fast. But how can that be seeing there is only sparse areas with the trees? You have to throw out all of your preconceived notions of how the earth was before the polar ice caps formed. What caused the polar ice caps? There is scientific evidence of a pole shift. How long does it take for an continent of ice to form, a layer on the continent. Ding, ding, ding, ding.

Now, pull out your bible and read what the earth was like. Nowhere in that bible is there a tale of freezing temperatures, nobody turned around and turned into a block of ice; just like there is no stories of seeing the moon during the day.

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. (I am seeking to explain this mystery)

In this statement there is a firmament with waters above and waters below. The firmament was called heaven.

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

The dry land was called Earth and the gathering together of those waters below the heaven was called Seas. Everbody can read that. People read that statement and go right on and start praising the Father and thanking Him for the mist that waters the earth.

I believe there is something above the heavens, the blue sky, that is not there anymore. The water above the heavens was not gathered together into clouds. The clouds are probably the mist.

A water canopy is what I'm getting at! No other planet has the ice caps that we do. Saturns moons may have frozen lakes of methane, but that goes right along with the age of this solar system.

I think that before the bible was written, there was an entirely different form of life. Everything was different in form. Man was the same man but he was not flesh and bone as compact as they are now; bone was still bone and everything was the same but everything could be formed as the surroundings dictated.

It would be nice, wouldn't it? Hard to believe that anything was so radically different, but I think it was.

Well, it is true that this earth will only get so hot because of the reaction of the temperatures on elements of matter tend to cause liquid to form and the liquid cools. That is just a proces that all things go through in their temperature variations. The only way that runaway global warming occurs is like on Mercury where there is no atmosphere. It's too close to the flame. Somebody or some thing put this earth in the right location for the flesh to survive like it does, water to form, and all that. But that does not say anything about there being the possibility of other life on some gas giant planet underneath the gas covering or on Jupiter or Uranus.

Why would I look to the bible for what the earth was like? The bible isn't even an acurate book on history. It's still a collection of mythologies and half history. Sure the places and a few people existed, but that does not the whole truth make.


Ofcourse the past iceage isn't in the bible, humans were still wandering protohumans tribes. The bible just covers what a sivilization thought how everything came to be, and even that is iffy because of how many times their religion changed throughout it's making. Even afterwards through the ages.


Reguardless, this isn't the time or place to give a sermon. It's bound to summon Waspie Dwarf to tell everyone to knock it off.


I gave up the blame game. That time's past. I'm just saying it's time to accept the change and learn to work with nature and the earth to survive, not against and be desimated. Nature's proven over and over that it can't be dominated and controled. If trees growing on land that was once permafrost, and continents becoming deserts because of high heat and drought, and huge areas being covered in snow because the warm temps alowed it by being warm enough to create moisture and only *just* cold enough to make that moisture into snow and the summers are growing ever hotter means the world is just fine and there's nothing to worry about.. then you don't want to accept change.

And receiv... the thing about boats... they can be sailed out of harms way, unlike a house. Smart sailors take their boats out to sea before a hurricane strikes land.

It already is.

so its just goign to keep happening huh.... you should go work for al gore man... lord knows they have all the money he needs for his generations to live on even the runaway cliamte is goign to kill everyone else on the planet...

at least his name will survive... but thats ok when the temperautres start to cool off and level out and fall like the have before, in history, then well see whos sitting there wit ha foot in their mouth hehe keep up the good work gore jr.

Wrong nationality for me.
But hey I'm actually a scientist, are you?

But, youre leaving out something, man. Al Gore has gotten all he is going to get. That's the thing, though. They, the media filters, have trained the mind to receive the information that is presented. You see, there is a way to cool the earth quickly enough to stop any further catastrophe because of the heat and that is pump water into the oil wells. That would be one way to stop the arid conditions in the Middle East; give back something to the earth for the oil that has been removed, not because of the wishy-washy lovin'-feelin' thing like 'poor ol' Gaia.' But, if ya don't, youre gonna die.

And that, I'm afraid, is what you have to be on the lookout for. Who is going to die? How are you going to die? Can you stop it? If you can stop it, why don't you?

We know that somebody is not gonna make it. It's not that we don't care; quite the opposite, but it is time to quit this not thinking and do the right thing in the right way for the right reason.

Go out into a ragged field and plant a tree where there is none.

The Pine Barrens will once again be a temperate Island ( It has be getting "swampy" lately) and the Midwest will once again be a shallow sea making my mom to buy a houseboat.
We talked about this before Cougar. People always repeat their mistakes. They are thickheaded. I am seeing "spot" wetlands in pastures and farmfields take over a whole area . The bug problem, from lack of a "hard" frost is getting worse ( in Spring, on my deertrail walks my snakeboots are covered with ticks and clouds of mosquitos look like fog). But folks sit inside their suburban house on their computers and video games oblivious to anything outside. I notice the spring peeper frogs disapearing 8 years ago and when I stated it people looked at me crosseyed. Now it is on the news? Sensory retardation. They don't get out and they don't see it.

Lapiche naXisimus

News Flash!! This just in...Earth's Climate is Changing....video at 11:00

Wouldn't the 'real' news be that the Earth's Climate was NOT changing? It is obvious to me that Apes did not evolve into humans...rather, Humans are de-evolving into Cromagnus-stupidus.

Not directed at anyone in this thread...just the masses of idiocy in general.

It is not the change it is the rate, the reason and the cause.

A. The Earth is approximately 4 Billion years old. The Dinosaurs became extinct millions of years ago. The Ice Age came and the Ice Age went, who knows how many times.

B. Man's existence on this planet compared to the planets existence is but a vapor. To isolate change and blame mankind is ridiculous.

C. The planet cannot be destroyed by mankind. For a moment I will accept your premise: The rate, the reason and the cause....and will go further and stipulate that at this rate, humanity will cease to exist in 50 years. The planet however will continue to rotate on it's axis for probably another several billion years. In the meantime it has purged itself and life begins anew.

D. The entire premise for Global Warming is an attempt by the Russian Communists who, not having an empire to run made a mad dash for the cash of the Promised Land. Having already gained a strong foothold in American Politics and in Hollywood, these communists have cloaked themselves as the new Keepers of the Green. If you buy into this Global Warming crapola it is okay. Really. It is. Whether you believe it or not...you are going to die. and you are going to die today....so...the real question is...are you going to spend your last day on Earth crying about something you have no control over or rejoicing for the life that you have?

I have my doubts about how much humans have contributed...maybe it was eccelerated by a few years, but it would happen with or without us. Data from climatologists has convinced me.

Piney love, I know exactly.. *chuckles* Though I donno if the midwest will become the shallow seas it once was.. or when, or if we'll be alive and our children will be needing the houseboats.. (the world becomes venic!)

Joc.. No! REALLY!? YOU DON'T SAY! That's why I made this damned post.. because ya know what.. trees growing where there was once PERMAFROST is kind of news worthy!!

Especialy to people like me who actually pay attention to the enviroment and give a care. Yeah you don't. Fine, don't flipping bother with this thread.

And everyone else who want to bring in the "Man did it/didn't do it/has a bit to do with it" argument.. I'll repeat myself.

BLAME FRICKEN GAME IS OVER!!! I DON'T CARE WHO'S AT FAULT OR NOT AT FAULT! However, there is *major* change going on, and it's a *SMART* idea to prepair and learn how to adapt then sit on your damned thumbs and play this blame game and ignoreing the warning signs that nature is screaming at us. Scientists can't fricken agree.. the politicians ain't worth a damned to listen to..

It's time to pay attention to the enviroment.

And yeah, I know.. you'd rather watch that next sports game, or worry about your next pay check then be bothered... Fine.. again, don't bother with this thread.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Biggest pile of nonsense I have ever seen.

Remember what James Watt said in the eighties. "Why worry about the enviroment. Jesus is returning anyway."
If you are not close to it. Or in tune to it. It won't affect you and you don't see the changes. I was out today walking around on New Jersey Conservatory property. There was gnat clouds. You don't see them until June. Ponds fed by the Raritan Aquifer which usually stays about 45 degrees in the summer and freeze solid never froze and their temp was 42. People in town are complaining about sand flea infestations which they could not get rid of all winter. That was unheard of even 5 years ago. Sorry, it is getting warmer.
10,000 years ago New Jersey was warm, wet and swampy so maybe it is partially natural. But it is still happening and we still have to adapt.

Lapiche naXisimis

Ah but you know my love... I do not believe in Jesus, or of this return. So I do worry. *chuckles*

Yes, the cherry trees bloomed in feburary here... The frogs were also out then as well. That should be happening if the climet was cooler like years ago.

Only time will tell.

Okay....so nature is screaming at us. So what exactly are we supposed to do about it? Keep track of our individual carbon mark on the planet?

My point was that there isn't anything to do about it. If the planet is pissed, the planet will take care of itself. If we are hurting the planet, the planet will destroy us. And so there you go. Tell the planet to get a grip.

There is alot we can do. We can learn to live with nature, not destroy it. But yeah, I forgot. You're self centered and could care less. Again, why bother with this thread?

Because, believe it or not, it is an issue I do care about. I am not just here to throw cold water on the kitty for the fun of it. But real problems require real solutions SC. When you say 'we can learn to live with nature, not destroy it'...give me some concrete examples please. You already stated that the politicians and scientists aren't going to do anything about it.
I would go further and say that Corporate World is not that concerned either. Is China going to do anything about it? They are one of the largest producers of greenhouse gases in the world. What about our friends the North Koreans?
So who is it exactly that is supposed to 'learn to live with nature, not destroy it'?

I'm not blowing air up your skirt sweety...I do care about the environment...but then again, I am not the one who is destroying anything. And I don't think America is destroying anything either....we are the 'cleanest' per capita country on the planet. Go to a garbage dump in Manilla and see what they are allowed to throw in there vs. what I am allowed to throw into my local landfill.

If Global Warming is a Real Problem...then what the Planet needs are Real Solutions. Got any?

I was thinking about this last night. My cousin just returned from China and he said 2/3rds of the northern forests are gone and they count the days when they see the sun. He said their factories do not use any pollution control systems and they are quite literaly turning their country into a barren desert.

Lapiche

China will no longer do anything then our own country, especialy with it's current administration. All they're doing is offering bandaids for a gapeing wound.

Once their land turns into that barren desert, then we're going to see a hefty population crash there.


Solutions are out there. There are articles by the scores about how to build and remodle your home to be more energy efficiant. Sure it'll take time and a bit of money with some things, but in the end it'll be worth it. *ESPECIALY* if you build/remodle your home to use nature to keep your house warm in the winter, and cool in summer. Trees help with this greatly, even how you place your windows, put your walls... *is hopeing that article from Coastal Living is still up online*

And I wasn't totaly right about the government not trying. WA state had receintly passed the greener energy act. It aims at finding, building, and maintaining ways to get energy that will ween us off of fossil fuel but like 2016 or somewhere in that area. No idea if any other state did that as well. But then Western Washington, atleast, has always been trying to be the leading edge in being "enviromentaly friendly". They noticed that the tree growth around Seattle was less then what it was 30 years ago, and are not making major steps to regain all that was lost. *laughs* They have their nick name to keep up!

Ok, link time... since you finaly cut the crap, Joc, and finaly said what you ment.

http://www.pathnet.org/sp.asp?id=18438
http://architecture.about.com/od/buildyour...urcuttbuild.htm
http://www.greenhome.com/ (place you can get some nice things to help your home and decor shush.. female.. I like this stuff ;P)
http://globalgreen.org/greenbuilding/
http://www.coastalliving.com/coastal/homes...1583735,00.html (YAY! The article was still there)

http://www.energystar.gov/

Oh and the CL article mentioned useing wheatboard instead of wood... Here's a link to the stuff and why it's better then boards made from trees... http://www.display-smart.com/cgi-local/arc...wheatboard.html


http://www.bendshire.com/ Little community being built in Bend Or. They have "Green Construction" in the little menu on the left side. You can get ideas from them as well. (omgs raidiant floors.. purrrrr)

http://www.efficientwindows.org/

There. You asked... there some things you can do.

Now for what we do, since we live in an appartment (grumble) is doing little things that are in our control. Sure we recycle, we wash our clothes in cold water, going to replace the shower head (once I convince him to just bloody do it and not worry about the management)... Now because we live on the north side of the building we don't get *ANY* outside light at all. So I have three lights on. One is this little lamp behind me that lights up the small appartment, the other two are sun lamps for my plants.

Now, the light bulbs are the flourecent day lamps, which give off the same frequency as sunlight, so it's good for the plants, and for us as well as being energy efficiant and longer lasting. Had we been able to live on the south side, I wouldn't have needed any lights at all. *chuckles*

At issue is not what you throw into the trash.

There are countries that will survive for a time after America. Now, at issue is what is causing the warming. The structure and the content of the earth is what is or is not causing the warming and the atmosphere is the result of the real cause. In my view, the real cause is the blood that has been removed from the body of the earth. Your body is 2/3rds water, is that what it is, the water? No. A hint would be, 'Vroom,vroom.'

One solution to start is fill all of the empty or unused oil wells with water.

The state of the enviroment and natural world is heartbreaking. I hope more people will care soon, its already too late though I guess.

Unfortunately, SC, a lot of those things are very expensive. We are planning on adding on to our 110 year old house and I've done a lot of checking. The cost of doing it with all of those environmentally friendly features is almost double the standard. We have so many trees and so little sunlight it's not feasable to install solar panels. One thing we are doing, at the moment, is install a cistern to use brown water to flush the toilet, water the plants and whatnot because we have a huge amount of water coming down the mountain on our property. Even though we have four coal burning fireplaces none of them are in working order or suitable for wood. Our plan is to put a woodburning fireplace in the new addition that will heat almost half of the house and there are enough trees that fall naturally around here without cutting any down.

And I admitted that it was going to be expensive... however there are other ways to just ease into living green untill either the prices come down, or you can afford atleast one major thing done every 5 or so years.

Yeah, it's easier to say "Screw it.." and not do a dang thing... however, if you really want to do something.. then just *do* it.

Did I say "Screw it..."?

That was a general statement, generaly uttered by people who would rather not bother because of the price factor. To which you have not.

You do what you can, when you can.

My bad...

Okay...real problem, real solutions. I delved into your links. You know what they are? They are links about things that Americans....Americans....can do to be more energy efficient and the premise is that if ...Americans...would do all the things necessary to combat global warming then it would help tremendously....which is pure poppy-crock. All it does is make YOU feel better...(you being anyone who does it, not personal you SC). It doesn't help a damn thing. Know why? Because if mankind is causing global warming...it sure as hell isn't the mankind living in North America. It is the mankind living in Western Europe and China and the mankind living in Mexico and South America and the mankind living in 3rd world wanna-be countries like Iran and Iraq and North Korea.

See, the problem isn't that Americans aren't doing enough....Americans are being blamed for the whole dogmagged thing. And that is what pisses me off. Go ahead and put in those high dollar windows. You'll be better off with heating and cooling bills in the long run....but don't try and tell me that your going to make one tiny microscopic dent in the big global picture. There are 8 going on 9 Billion mankinds on this planet and America only accounts for a very small percentage....and of the numbers that are doing the most polluting of the planet...the Americans are by far...By FAR...the cleanest and the best at cleaning up their messes.

Rowrrrr! Woof! Here kitty ....come back kitty...aw hell...don't go off in a huff everytime I speak my mind. For Lilliths sake!

I had class to go to, doof.

And no, not just americans.. people anywere that have a net access and can get these done. As for China and where ever else.. Hells if I know what they can do... Like hells they'll listen to anyone else... never in the past.

So let their country crash and burn when the ecosystem crashes under the strain of their population growth and pollutions.

If we can fix our own way of life, then that's steps towards something better for us.

All we can do is hope we get a government that will get this nation to be energy efficiant and the like, then help other countries do the same with a friendly smile and not a closed fist.

But SC...I thought the concern was GLOBAL warming....I thought we were all in this together...I thought we were all going to crash and burn together....now which is it?

I want to make this perfectly clear: If you have a problem with 'your way of life' then by all means fix it. But Leave My Way of Life the Hell Alone. I am not responsible for the Global Warming you believe exists. The Chinese may be...but you aren't going to blame them are you? That was the whole crux of why America thumbed its nose at the Kioto Treaty.

K....done with this thread now. I see that it isn't really Global Warming that has you all in a tizzy...it is Americans not caring as much as YOU! I am a believer in 'clean up your own backyard' and leave my backyard the hell alone.
Peace/Out

Thanks for putting words in my mouth just to say you were right I'm wrong.


I never brought *AMERICANS* into this. You did. I said *ANYONE* can change. You asked how China could. I stated that I don't know because they won't listen. And I really don't know how to make them listen aside letting their eccosystem crash and burn.

Anyone with the idea, drive, desire, and means. Anyone anywhere. Ireland, England, Italy, US, Cambodia, China if they'ed listen or desired.

I'm sorry you're so clouded with the whole "American" thing. But that's not my problem to overcome. It's yours.

Just thought I'd add this list....



... I know it says the 'Top 20 Countries' in the heading and the list only has 8 countries (print screen size limitation) but hey I included Canada lol. The reast of the countries and some graphs can be found here....

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/scien...-emissions.html

http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/emis/graphics/top20_96.gif

Considering China's population compared to the US population, per person Americans should be doing more. Now I dont say this to assign blame to any one country's population in particular but to emphasize that in reality it should be the Chinese that are saying "Why should we, it wouldnt make a dent without the US getting onboard too." Also Canada is the 4th biggest contributor per person on the list and we should be doing our part too.

I'm just tired of the schoolyard mentality of "No, you first."

Call me an optimist but personally I am very excited about the possibility of Antartica thawing and revealing the untouched land beneath it and what finds that could reveal. *rubs hands together in anticipation*

Maybe some horrible disease! XD