So why do so made Christians have a problem with it? The idea of 'original sin' was MADE UP by AUGUSTINE a Scorpio no less. The sin of Adam and Eve was this. God TOLD THEM ABOUT FREE WILL, and He told them about the good and bad paths, but then they went and deliberately DISOBEYED HIM. They ate of the tree of knowledge which he warned would cause death. But here's the catch, God KNEW they would do it. He said when He made Eve from the then angdronygous Adam that 'he would bring death through Eve'. WHY? Because they were a 'second kind of angel' with free will and the ability to REPRODUCE. Angels are made by God directly, so it would seem God didn't want angels creating angels in the Heavens because 1. angels are solely loyal to God, 2. angels as the Sons of God WORK for God 'fallen' or not, and 3. they don't have the free will not NOT love God. This second kind of angel who could reproduce AND had the ability through free will to either 'love or abhor God' just wouldn't go. Only through explusion and death would this work out. So the sin indeed was NOT sex and where this idea that itwas sex came from is beyond me. Adam and Eve probably had sex in Eden and God had no problem with it.

Futhermore Eden is NOT on Earth, Eden in in space on another planet most likely Mars. Just like all the 10 levels of Heaven are in space, and so is God Himself.

I don't see what's the big deal about sex, really.
If you love someone, I don't see why you should wait until marriage.
Even if God would exist, why would he care anyway?
They're trying to make sex sound like a bad thing, which is really dumb.

And, don't tell me that Adam and Eve got married.
And their kids who had sex, didn't marry either.

People are so afraid about making sins, that they forget the whole "peace and love" concept, that's what Christianity is about.
Not fear.

Christians are not against sex, not at all. Christians believe God made sex to be a gift to be thoroughly enjoyed between one man and one woman for life. Saying Christians are against sex is done to obscure that fact by making it seem that their belief is absolutely ridiculous, why would anyone be against sex? There are "Christian" sects which take this much further, there have been times throughout history that there were some very weird prevailing beliefs, but I doubt you'd find any of the Christians in this forum are actually against sex, or think sex itself is evil or sinful... and it's not if it is practiced within an exclusively monogamous life-long relationship.

God might have invented it but I think we humans have improved it in ways that God couldn't imagine...

So true.

You're confusing a ceremony with the covenant of marriage. There are many different types of marriage ceremonies which highlight the covenant of marriage which is the establishment of a life-long exclusive relationship between one man and one woman.

Were Adam and Eve married? Yes, they were. Read Genesis and you will see Adam stating this covenant before God, and God blessing it and establishing the practice of such a covenant.

And all of their kids too?
We're talking about a lot of people here.

And, I really doubt that God "blessed" them and all, then no one ever saw him again.
So, he was there during a ceremony and everything, for 2 people, and then....no one saw him again.
When people are in need, dying, anything, he's not there.
But he was there for a marriage, just so that they don't sin.
It so make sense.

You'd be surprised what was known about sex. According to a Babylonian text they thank the fallen angel Azazel for teaching them...oral pleasures....amongst other things lol. Nothing that is around today wasn't around then.

Now as I've said before I chose to remain a virgin until marriage but it has absolutely nothing to do with religion because there isn not one text stating you must do so. It's a personal choice for a variety of reasons including no unwanted pregnancies STDs or AIDs etc. And as for having 'only one marriage partner' in the OT they had several wives...harems even. Even Solomon did and boasted 1000 wives and concubines (note the word CONCUBINES) and did God say a word about it? No. Was divorce ok under God? YESSSSSSSS

There was marriage in since the Genesis era though as the fallen angels of Enoch fame (Azazel/Asiel being one of them) married human women. Note though that though many others at the time had several wives they took only one each. A 'marriage' however was not the elaborate thing it is today. If you LIVED with someone and had sex with them, YOU WERE MARRIED TO THEM.

Plus there is a rather unhealthy attitude to sex by Christians because they believe masterbation is a 'sin' and that watching pornography will send them to hell. There is nothing textual to back up this claim other than one text which talks about not wasting seed. Nothing is said about the female side of it. Then there's homosexuality based on the text 'do not lie with a man as you do with a woman' which is actually a reference to sodomy for BOTH SEXES (and I personally wouldn't want to be involved with sodomy to begin with) not the actual relationship between men. It also has no reference or condemnation for the female side of it. There is also the idea that sex is soley for the purpose of procreation, when no text backs that up.

Read Genesis, it's there. Also, yes, I believe He was there, He's still here.

Have you been to Lovers Lane lol? I don't think they had batteries waaaay back then. While I agree that there was a lot of stuff around back then, we have "devices" now a days to expirament with

Anyhow, I suppose the new testament has a bit to say about marraige that makes christians freak out about sex.


Mark 10:11-12 Whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries someone else, she commits adultery.

Rom 13:13-14 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.
Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

1 Corinthians 6: 12-20
Everything is permissible for me"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"--but I will not be mastered by anything.
Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"--but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never!
Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

How do you figure that?

Well yeah I guess there ARE things which weren't around then lol

Regarding those posts. 1. why is divorce suddenly a sin when God permitted it previously, and 2. The rest is all heresy in my eyes written by men of their own opinions men who had no direct contact with God, angels or Jesus, let alone even KNOW Jesus personally.

Now to recap on 1. I am quite sure that that text has been edited and was actually talking about divorce without merit. In Judaism, also the laws a God, one may divorce for a variety of different reasons, BUT there has to BE a reason. Since Jesus said he did NOT come to change the law, the laws on divorce with reason should still stand.

God.....A Peeping Tom ??...... Heavens forbid !!!

(No offense or disrespect intended)

It is written Q-Ball. Eden is on the 3rd Heaven - the human level of heaven all the res belong to angels including angelic prisonhouses, and God - and ALL levels of Heaven are in space. The 3rd level of Heaven also holds on it's opposite side the human Sheol.

Blasphemy!

So how do you figure Eden is/was on mars from that? Why not the moon?

Because the Moon belongs to angels. And astrologically Mars which rules Aries makes sense. Aries is the first sign of the Zodiac, Adam was the first man. Plus Mars is the most likely previously inhabited planet.

That Aside the name Adam didn't come from nowhere. God made his name from the 4 componants. From the East A, from the West D, from the North A from the South M. And the name Eve (Euva) came from the last word that came out of his mouth while he was asleep and God was making Eve from him. God made that word mean 'Mother'.

I don't even get this point? How dose East = A, West = D, North = A ect. Surly if Adam's name was taken from the 4 points of the compass his name would be Ewns.
Or North and East would both be North or both be East due to them both = the letter "A"



The problem with your theory is it uses science (Mars is the most likely previously inhabited planet) and astrology (Aries is the first sign of the Zodiac) to compliment each other, they don't that the laws of science and astrology massively contradict each other. If you want to use science as your argument it leaves the question - how did Adam get to earth from mars? An if you use astrology as your argument - well, that point speaks for its self ???!!!



I don't think the "the 10 levels of Heaven are in space" thing is meant literally where ever you read it. I think it was probably written this way due to the lack of a better understanding of what space was in the days it was written. 1000's of years ago I can easily see how people thought space was the place of the gods an angels but lets face it we have been, its not. Surely it would make more sense if the 10 levels of haven would be in another dimension and that it was assumed that dimension was space back in the day? And there for Eden, if it is not on earth and did/dose exist it is more likely to be in another dimension also. Yeah?

I really don't see how science and astrology are incompatible, and besides they're thinking about making astrology a science.

Heaven is in space and 'going to space' is completely irrelevant. How far out have we been? The 8th Heaven is the zodiac belt, the 10th is where God is. That's way beyond our mere little solar system.

About the compass points first it doesn't mean that, and second surely you realize that the texts were written in Hebrew not English.

Anyway I have to get going it's 4am here and I only got up to have a smoke.

We have been far enough to know Eden is not on Mars and the moon is not full of angles!



I bet only the Astrologists are trying to do this. Science already has a credible equivalent they are called Astrologers and are rightly up set when people get the two confused.

I am curious(like George) whether you even read what you write before posting it?

You say "Christians are not against sex, not at all" but exclude the part about this sex being only the type of sex agreeable to Christians.

As long as it is with a man and a woman, Christians have no problem with sex. And as long as the man and the women are married, covenant etc, Christians have no problem with sex. And as long as a married man and woman do not engage in sodomy, then Christians have no problem with sex.

Sure Christians have no problem with sex but that statemenet comes with a very big IF, as in IF it doesnt involve sexual activity unagreeable to the Christian viewpoint.

And you say that you "doubt you'd find any of the Christians in this forum are actually against sex, or think sex itself is evil or sinful", how about homosexual sex? Christians dont find homosexual sex sinful? How about a married man and a woman engaging in sodomy? No sin there either?

Now if you said, 'Christians are not against sexual activity agreeable to the Christian persepctive', you'd be bang on, but that doesnt sound very tolerant and accepting of others preferences does it? Tolerance and acceptance being a supposed Christian trait.

i agree with all of that except for angels having the ability to reproduce... well maybe they coudln't with each other... but i know angels could with human women...

actually one more thing i disagree with... i think they do have the free will not to love God... but i don't think they have the free will to not believe in Him... that's like someone trying not to believe in the device they are using to read this...

I'm a Christian and I think sex is one of the greatest gifts ever given by God to man.
Without it life would have become extinct after the first man and woman died. And it's a blast.

I didn't see any problem with what he said. Christians are not against sex. They may be opposed to certain varieties of sex, but they are not against sex. There's no need to be rude ("I am curious(like George) whether you even read what you write before posting it?"). As far as being tolerant and accepting of others preferences, this was supposed to be a rule passed down from God himself, not something made up on the spur of the moment to exclude people. Would you call a Hindu intolerant and unaccepting if he didn't help cook hamburgers at your barbecue?

Yes tht's true. They can't reproduce with each other because they are andronygeous (both male and female) but predominantly MALE and don't have a uterus. Can angels have sex with each other? Don't ask me that because I'm not going to answer.

All angels love God even the fallen. ALL angels work for God, even the fallen (and thatincludes satan). They arethe Sons of God Benai Elohim and they love their father. It's their first love (not in a sexual way don't miscontrue it). In the beginning it was God, then God created angels so angels originally had God's undivided attention.

No problem huh? So Christians dont see homosexual sex being a sin? I quote, "or think sex itself is evil or sinful".



Heads up, I can be as rude as I want and also take the consequences.



No but if a Hindu came to my barbecue and called me and my friends sinners and other names for eating beef I wouldnt think twice about giving him/her a punishing raw steak b***h slap that would cause them to have panic attacks everytime they walked down the meat aisle from that day onward.

No, I don't believe that the majority of Christians think sex itself is evil or sinful. As I said previously, it's some of the varieties of sex that they have a problem with.
Yes, you can be as rude as you want, but it doesn't help to demonstrate your point. Heads up, I said there's no need to be rude, not that you can't.
There are some Christians who actively campaign against the homosexual lifestyle, but that doesn't include all of them. You are speaking as though all Christians everywhere think and act alike. That is not the case. Many Christians do not support homosexual sex and believe it is wrong but do not go around calling homosexuals sinners and other names.

I asked....



You reply...



Wow thanks for answering the question you wished I had asked not the question I did ask, you should go into politics with that spin.

Also I think you are missing the point, saying someone or a group has no problem with something as long as it is of the variety they agree with doesnt mean jack****. Tolerance is being ok with choices you dont agree with not being ok with choices you already agree with

Er say..whaaat?
Wait there.. I'm just going to pick up a brick.. and repeatedly smack myself over the head..
Yep it all makes sense now… carry on.

I'm not sure how I can answer any more clearly. The original quote I responded to was "You say "Christians are not against sex, not at all" but exclude the part about this sex being only the type of sex agreeable to Christians.".
I responded that "I didn't see any problem with what he said. Christians are not against sex. They may be opposed to certain varieties of sex, but they are not against sex.".
You then said "No problem huh? So Christians dont see homosexual sex being a sin? I quote, "or think sex itself is evil or sinful". This was not the statement that I was originally addressing. What I was originally addressing was the statement that Christians are not against sex.
To address your question about how Christians view homosexual sex, I replied "As I said previously, it's some of the varieties of sex that they have a problem with." To clarify further (which I apparently should have done previously), yes, a large number of Christians see homosexual sex as being a sin. The Bible appears to be pretty clear that it's a sin, so naturally people who believe it is the word of God would believe that homosexual sex is a sin. I hope that answers the question again in a clearer manner.

Tolerance is not being OK with choices you don't agree with. If you are OK with the choice, then you don't disagree with it. Tolerance is accepting in spite of your disagreement. In this regard, many Christians are tolerant of homosexual sex. Not all Christians treat people the same way and it isn't fair to paint them all with the same brush.
From MSN Encarta:
tol·er·ance [ tóllərənss ] (plural tol·er·ances)
noun
Definition:
1. acceptance of different views: the acceptance of the differing views of other people, e.g. in religious or political matters, and fairness toward the people who hold these different views
2. tolerating of somebody or something: the act of putting up with somebody or something irritating or otherwise unpleasant

A quick recap shall we....



I say...



All goes quiet for almost a week....

You reply to me...



I reply to you....



You reply...



I reply....



Your reply...



There, done, solved. The intial post was misrepresenting the views of "a large number" of "people who believe it(the Bible) is the word of God", which says that "homosexual sex is a sin". Which is why I found "I doubt you'd find any of the Christians in this forum are actually against sex, or think sex itself is evil or sinful" to be an inaccurate statement.

So unless you want to argue paintbrush sizes or my rudeness lets not beat this dead horse anymore than it already has.

And Billy pass me that brick, this has got to be the most boring post I have ever made

lol should all make sense now..

*SMACK* Jeebuzz.... Jeebuzz is that you?

I can see clearly now the rain is gone, I can see all obstacles in my way

I'm a hetero practicing Christian, and I have gay friends. I don't judge them or anyone. I may have my opinion on homosexuality but I keep it to myself as not to offend my gay friends.
I see them as equal human beings, not freaks or monsters.
I've even attended a gay wedding. No big deal, love is love in whatever form it takes. I believe as a Christian that we are all God's children.
But I must say, I do like my women!

I just feel that Jesus would want me to accept and show love to everyone no matter what the circumstance.

Where does it say in the Bible that God told Adam and Eve about free will? Free will is a theory that people came up with. It might not be true. How do you know our actions aren't just the result of programming? Maybe we all have flaws in our programming that cause us to misbehave. I believe God can predict our behavior. How did God know what Adam and Eve were going to do? He must be able to predict our behavior. He would have to know how people were going to behave to give us prophecy. If God can predict our behavior then free will can't be real.

I don't know why Christianity wants to repress sex. Sex is actually a wonderful thing. It brings a man and woman closer together both physically and emotionally and it can bring a baby into the world.

The NT references the Messiah fulfilling the law and that all the law is now defined by one law-LOVE. He showed greater mercy than what the law dictated in OT days for certain and stressed forgiveness rather than judgement. The book of Hebrews was written by a doctor of the law and former Pharisee who penned an outstanding disortation on the change of biblical administration from the law into grace.

it would be that part where God pointed at the tree and said "don't touch this one"

had he not made that one rule... then they couldn't disobey because there wouldn't be any rule to disobey... thus instituting free will... it's not really free will if you only have one path to take...



God stands in the center of a circle and looks of all of history at once... that's how He knows the end from the beginning...

that's the most simple way i can explain it...



Christianity doesn't want to supress sex... certain groups of people in general want to surpress sex... and they are not all Christian...

Interesting post ashley. Sex between a man and woman who are married together is not a sin. Adam and Eve were joined together and were the worlds first couple. God certainly has no problem with a married man and woman having sex, he is all for it, pleasure and creation wise. But the sin comes from having pre-marital sex which a TON of people including myself are guilty of. Also Adam and Eve were a direct creation of God, while us as their children are not a direct creation, but sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were what I believe the first physical creation. Having tangible flesh and sexual organs. I am sure they were perfect in their appearance very beautiful, without blemish, fat, scars, or any abnormal details. I believe angels do have free will as well because 1/3 of them chose to rebel against God and follow satan...

Just because thier are rules doesn't mean we have free will. The Bible doesn't even say we have free will. People theorize we have free will.

I still think it is all a matter of programming. Programming can result in more than one path. A computer can follow more than one path. We screw up due to faulty programming, which God fixes by punishing us. To God were just machines with some intelligence.

Give me a forest of trees... heck, an entire planet of trees... and say "don't touch this one", and that's the one I'm going to touch. But isn't that what God wanted? God's a slippery sausage.

What is the punishment for people having sex out of wedlock? I've read the bit about being stoned... but it seems that with the Bible one bit says one thing, the OT says this, the NT says something else. In the end... what the punishment for naughty people having sex?

The punishment is, the consequences. Unwanted pregnancy, fatherless children, latchkey kids because Mom is single and has to work all the time, the breakdown of family that seems so normal to us now , a huge, bureaucratic, non-child-support-collecting/food stamp/welfare state, children growing up not knowing what a family is and perpetuating that in their own lives, disease; but even if pregnancy and disease don't happen, each unrepentant sin creates further seperation from Him. Each time we get away with it, and think nothing was wrong with it, and rationalize it to ourselves because we like it and want to do it, we take a further step off of the path that God intended for us.

I'm not a christian, and will never feel guilty for having sex. As long as you are safe and careful there's no harm. I've never had "consequences" for having sex. It's just a physical act.. I'm in a loving relationship and sex is a big part of that. I couldn't imagine connecting "sin" and bad things with sex. I love my boyfriend and this is just one way of expressing it.

You gotta push away your self and come to the realization that I had a hard time coming to for a good part of my life. I'm not going to lie and say that I haven't been blessed with good looks, so females never were shy toward me and before I was Christian and was dabbling into satanism I would just have sex with as many women as I could without feeling guilty at all. Women are by far my weakest point, and satan knows that. When I became Christian I realized that sex is #1 for creation, and #2 for feeling/connecting and becoming as one. It's a hard truth for me to accept but now i'm married and don't have to worry about it anymore. I could drop smoking weed, drinking, doing any type of drug easy, but the hardest part for me was dropping the woman =/

A Scorpio myself, does that mean us scorpios think sex is a terrible thing?

I believe when a man and woman has sex they are uniting together to form what ultimately is God's love. The act on the whole is a symbol of what God is. That is why sex should be held so sacrid! When two people love each other and come together physically and spiritually they reproduce what God stands for on the whole. God isn't just one parent in the house--> God is the mother, the father, and the holy spirit combined. When man and woman make love to each other, are n love, sharing love, they are mother, father, and spirit combined. That's how I see it.

at least your honest about it.

Chistianity, on the whole, is the least likely to have a problem with sex compared to other religions.. I would think.
We don't chop off heads in accusations of adultry.. not that I am aware of anyhoo.
It would be different if there weren't such negative consequences to such acts as liberal sex-- sleep with whom you will or will have you- attitude. But there are many consequences to anyone with this behavior toward sex. Society/ World Wide is seeing the repercussions now...

No, I didn't mean it like that. I myself have a Moon in Scorpio and my father is a Scorpio, and I know that once a Scorpio person turns away from something they tend to avoid it at all costs, even begin to think it is 'evil'. In the case of Augustine who became went to the priesthood he quite clearly DID think that sex was 'evil' because he coined the term 'original sin' and pinned it on the act of sex.

I also personally believe that sex should only be between two people who love each other or means nothing and is pointless, which is part of the reason why I've made the choice at a very young age to not have sex until marriage. There are other factors influencing that decison but one of the main ones is that to me teh actual act of sex is a very big thing and not something I'd want to share with someone who one day I mayhave to break up with. I just couldn't do it.

Still, thereare some branches of Christianity who have a problem withthe idea of being for anything but procreation and that I'm sorry but I don't agree with.

k.